Navi Rumors

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The current thoughts are that Vega 7nm will be skipped and they will jump straight to Navi and add a 12nm 600 series mid-range part set. But given that Nvidia has launched and AMD isn't raining on their parade even with innuendo id say that we are at-least looking end of 1st quarter 2019.
 
Actually re-reading the first few posts made me laugh a bit. I'd forgottten it was initially rumoured to be released in early 2018. AMD needs to update that. The last I've heard from them is 2020.

Honestly I never believed the 2018 part. I don’t think it ever came from amd. Navi was always a 7nm part so realistic rumor should have been 2019. Navi has been 2019 for while now. 2020 is there next gen part, not Navi.
 
The current thoughts are that Vega 7nm will be skipped and they will jump straight to Navi and add a 12nm 600 series mid-range part set. But given that Nvidia has launched and AMD isn't raining on their parade even with innuendo id say that we are at-least looking end of 1st quarter 2019.

given how secretive they were with ryzen all the way up to launch it's hard to really know what AMD is thinking or doing.. they could either pull another ryzen or pull another vega and there's really no way to tell til it launches. if they start trying to overhype what ever they release next well in advance of launch that's when i'd start getting scared.. they have a bad habit of that with products that don't end up delivering.
 
given how secretive they were with ryzen all the way up to launch it's hard to really know what AMD is thinking or doing.. they could either pull another ryzen or pull another vega and there's really no way to tell til it launches. if they start trying to overhype what ever they release next well in advance of launch that's when i'd start getting scared.. they have a bad habit of that with products that don't end up delivering.

I think that kinda stopped when raja and their marketing guy left to intel. Now they are hyping intel video card year and half in advance, lol!

They have been fairly quiet about Navi as well. So hopefully it is good bang for buck when it comes to midrange. Which I expect it to be.
 
given how secretive they were with ryzen all the way up to launch it's hard to really know what AMD is thinking or doing.. they could either pull another ryzen or pull another vega and there's really no way to tell til it launches. if they start trying to overhype what ever they release next well in advance of launch that's when i'd start getting scared.. they have a bad habit of that with products that don't end up delivering.

There is a psychological effect associated with this strategy. It's called the tipping point. If you can pump the hype enough that enough people buy it it becomes a defacto standard. But when you are in second place it rarely works.
 
Well considering that Turing game performance jump is not that good combined with some out of this world price hikes -> AMD may have a viable option now with Vega 7nm especially if they fixed what ever was broken with the previous planned tile based rendering. Would have power under control, more efficiency big time, less heat, higher clocks, maybe even more shaders. Nvidia may have given them a golden opportunity to stay in the game before Navi is ready. With Vega 7nm and current pricing scheme from Nvidia I think they could compete, meaning better than 2080 performance at a lower price point. In other words they will need to outperform the Pascals and be cheaper than Turing which may not be too hard. Nvidia is left with massive oversized dies making it very hard for them to just drop the prices way low. I would bet AMD will make some 7nm Vega's for consumers, AMD needs to keep HBM production going plus all the other interposer assembly lines going before Navi hits.
 
Well considering that Turing game performance jump is not that good combined with some out of this world price hikes -> AMD may have a viable option now with Vega 7nm especially if they fixed what ever was broken with the previous planned tile based rendering. Would have power under control, more efficiency big time, less heat, higher clocks, maybe even more shaders. Nvidia may have given them a golden opportunity to stay in the game before Navi is ready. With Vega 7nm and current pricing scheme from Nvidia I think they could compete, meaning better than 2080 performance at a lower price point. In other words they will need to outperform the Pascals and be cheaper than Turing which may not be too hard. Nvidia is left with massive oversized dies making it very hard for them to just drop the prices way low. I would bet AMD will make some 7nm Vega's for consumers, AMD needs to keep HBM production going plus all the other interposer assembly lines going before Navi hits.

You are talking about the same company that shunned the AM3+ platform for several years. Prices never been a deciding factor with high end cards,
I thought that Vega 20 was doing 20 Terraflops. But Vega seems to not be able to capitalize on the raw power through their drivers.
Supposedly Navi will have some other benefits even if Navi is not going to cater to the high end market.

I do agree that there is a gap but AMD lacks marketing power to position anything and Vega in the consumer space does not have a very favourable reviews that left a very positive impression.
 
You are talking about the same company that shunned the AM3+ platform for several years. Prices never been a deciding factor with high end cards,
I thought that Vega 20 was doing 20 Terraflops. But Vega seems to not be able to capitalize on the raw power through their drivers.
Supposedly Navi will have some other benefits even if Navi is not going to cater to the high end market.

I do agree that there is a gap but AMD lacks marketing power to position anything and Vega in the consumer space does not have a very favourable reviews that left a very positive impression.
I don't think the problem with Vega was the drivers. It's architectural bottlenecks.
 
Well the Draw Stream Binning Rasterizer (tile based rendering) was never turned on (hardware flaw?) and Primitive Processor as well. Getting DSBR would give a significant boost in efficiency and performance. Features promised but not delivered. If Vega 7nm was fully operational by design, good drivers etc. it would perform significantly better then just Vega, 35%+. As for Navi, it sounds like it is 6-9 months out if the silicon is good, also if TSMC can mass produce at 7nm as well. Now what makes sense is releasing 7nm Vega 20 for Instinct and EPYC so as not to tie up TSMC 7nm production combine with a higher profit margin. Other option is to allow some 7nm Vega 20's for Pro Consumers (4 HBM2 stacked 16gb Vega FE 2?) at a much higher price since Nvidia pricing skyrocketed until TSMC can really deliver on 7nm chips as needed. I would think Vega 20 would be pretty much plug and play on the same circuit board as Vega, change is just what is on the interposer.
 
Well the Draw Stream Binning Rasterizer (tile based rendering) was never turned on (hardware flaw?) and Primitive Processor as well. Getting DSBR would give a significant boost in efficiency and performance. Features promised but not delivered. If Vega 7nm was fully operational by design, good drivers etc. it would perform significantly better then just Vega, 35%+. As for Navi, it sounds like it is 6-9 months out if the silicon is good, also if TSMC can mass produce at 7nm as well. Now what makes sense is releasing 7nm Vega 20 for Instinct and EPYC so as not to tie up TSMC 7nm production combine with a higher profit margin. Other option is to allow some 7nm Vega 20's for Pro Consumers (4 HBM2 stacked 16gb Vega FE 2?) at a much higher price since Nvidia pricing skyrocketed until TSMC can really deliver on 7nm chips as needed. I would think Vega 20 would be pretty much plug and play on the same circuit board as Vega, change is just what is on the interposer.

Yea I think DSBR is where Vega failed. I fully expect their next gen hardware to have that at minimum even if Navi doesn’t. I mean think about a proper DSBR working. It can be the biggest efficiency/performance gain on top of node shrink and other hardware changes in next gen hardware. Imagine Vega with proper DSBR I think we are looking at 30% gains at same power. Maxwell got similar gains when they implemented it. I think Raja didn’t hype it much it was probably because it was broken and never worked as intended. I was excited about it at first but man it was was a giant let down lol.
 
I want better options from AMD. Yes, I'm willing to wait and I'm willing to put my money up.

Look at my sig: I've got a 970 running dual 1920x1200s. I still have a 670 powering a HTPC. I've got a Vega56 and an R9 390, but they put out the heat.

I'd like a SOLID 1440 card which doesn't need 250w+ to run. I'd pick up two. Maybe three...
 
I want better options from AMD. Yes, I'm willing to wait and I'm willing to put my money up.

Look at my sig: I've got a 970 running dual 1920x1200s. I still have a 670 powering a HTPC. I've got a Vega56 and an R9 390, but they put out the heat.

I'd like a SOLID 1440 card which doesn't need 250w+ to run. I'd pick up two. Maybe three...

This so hard. I've got a GTX 980 pushing a 32" 144Hz FreeSync monitor that I would love to pair with a Vega 64/56, but the value proposition for AMD is terrible right now. I think I'll just buy a used GTX 1080 while I wait for AMD's next generation in 2020.
 
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This so hard. I've got a GTX 980 pushing a 32" 144Hz FreeSync monitor that I would love to pair with a Vega 64/56, but the value proposition for AMD is terrible right now. I think I'll just buy a used GTX 1080 while I wait for AMD's next generation in 2020.

You can get a 56/64 brand new with 3 games for under $450 if you take 30 seconds to set up a NIS alert....
 
You can get a 56/64 brand new with 3 games for under $450 if you take 30 seconds to set up a NIS alert....

I can get a used 1080 for $300 from someone locally and I'm not interested in new games. The power and heat of Vega also concerns me.
 
I can get a used 1080 for $300 from someone locally and I'm not interested in new games. The power and heat of Vega also concerns me.
Perfect name for the perfect post. Ha ha ha! :) Just having a bit of fun. How's everything going?

Great value on that used 1080!
 
I can get a used 1080 for $300 from someone locally and I'm not interested in new games. The power and heat of Vega also concerns me.


Well if we are going to compare Apples to Oranges, I can buy used VEGA's cheaper but they go fast since the cards are still making $3~5 a day after power thanks to the big boost in crypto. I am tempted to buy a couple 56s and sit on them for a month and sell them at the beginning of Dec for $100~150 more then I paid for them. There is a small window here, just like in 2017, where you can get them below MSRP with some great games for a good price. If you choose not to, them that is your choice.

I can help you get the card down to 1080 power levels in about 2 minutes if that is the issue that is stopping you from a enjoying a smoother, judder free experience with higher fPS and IQ with FS. Completely up to you :-D.

PS..I would buy the 1080 and flip that myself in a few weeks. GPU's are headed back up if the crypto market goes the way it seems (the 1080 not so much since 5x isn't great for mining but at $300~350 buy in they will ROI quickly as well).
 
Well if we are going to compare Apples to Oranges, I can buy used VEGA's cheaper but they go fast since the cards are still making $3~5 a day after power thanks to the big boost in crypto. I am tempted to buy a couple 56s and sit on them for a month and sell them at the beginning of Dec for $100~150 more then I paid for them. There is a small window here, just like in 2017, where you can get them below MSRP with some great games for a good price. If you choose not to, them that is your choice.

I can help you get the card down to 1080 power levels in about 2 minutes if that is the issue that is stopping you from a enjoying a smoother, judder free experience with higher fPS and IQ with FS. Completely up to you :-D.

PS..I would buy the 1080 and flip that myself in a few weeks. GPU's are headed back up if the crypto market goes the way it seems (the 1080 not so much since 5x isn't great for mining but at $300~350 buy in they will ROI quickly as well).

I'm pretty sure I'm going to get the 1080 regardless if I keep it or not. It's just too good of a deal to pass up.

If I could get a used (non-blower) Vega 56 for $300 or a Vega 64 for $400 I would, but I have been looking for weeks and haven't had any luck. I always buy used because I like to save money and I rarely play AAA games until I can get them for $15 or less. I'm married with kids so playing games when they release isn't important to me.

I am concerned with heat and power consumption. The heat output concerns me because I only have a small window A/C in my basement and it gets pretty warm in there for about 5 months a year. In the winter I'm not concerned because it stay near 66 in the basement with the heat on. We also pay quite a bit extra for electricity since we use a carbon neutral power distributor. The TDP of a Vega 64 is ~150W more than a 1080. It won't kill me, but it adds up.

Again, I *want* to use AMD, but they are really struggling with price, power, and performance for years now.
 
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I'm pretty sure I'm going to get the 1080 regardless if I keep it or not. It's just too good of a deal to pass up.

If I could get a used Vega 56 for $300 or a Vega 64 for $400 I would, but I have been looking for weeks and haven't had any luck. I always buy used because I like to save money and I rarely play AAA games until I can get them for $15 or less. I'm married with kids so playing games when they release isn't important to me.

I am concerned with heat and power consumption. The heat output concerns me because I only have a small window A/C in my basement and it gets pretty warm in there for about 5 months a year. In the winter I'm not concerned because it stay near 66 in the basement with the heat on. We also pay quite a bit extra for electricity since we use a carbon neutral power distributor. The TDP of a Vega 64 is ~150W more than a 1080. It won't kill me, but it adds up.

Again, I *want* to use AMD, but they are really struggling with price, power, and performance for years now.


IF you are going to get the 1080, you could always use that as a stop gap until late winter/spring when we see what Navi brings. I personally think $350 for a 56 with the game is a great deal. Sell the games for $30~45, and you have a new card with a warranty for the price of lunch over your used budget. If you are fine with 175W, we can get you some very good performance and FS. The great thing about buying VEGA is that you should have no issue flipping it for a tiny to no loss on eBay if you truly end up not enjoying the card with FreeSync.
 
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Alright, now we can get this NAVI RUMORS thread back on track...!!! ;^p

So yeah, CES 2019 right around the corner, Lisa Su is gonna show us Zen 2 & Small Navi goods...

I am hoping for announcement at CES 2019 & release no later than Computex 2019...

But the REAL rumors we need to look at now, of which there are none so far, is anything to do with Big Navi...

Let's face it, Raja screwed the pooch with Vega & is now doing the same for Intel & their hopes for a successful GPU release...

Vega had potential, but it was too hot, too power hungry, & did not meet goals / promises / expectations on some of the internal workings of the GPU...

And we have Lisa Su telling us that the new 7nm Vega chips are not for general scum like us PC gamers / power users...

Which makes sense, way more money to be made in the machine learning / AI / datacenter stuff than in the high end gaming GPU market...

We all like to look at the "Halo" cards from Nvidia, and dream of them in our systems, but the honest truth is that there are more lookers than actual buyers...

So, probably no 7nm Vega GPUs headed for the general consumer market...

Now we have Navi, the last of the GCN line-up...

If the above rumors hold to be true, Small Navi is looking pretty good, but what of Big Navi...?!?

Will it scale up in performance to meet its rivals on the Nvidia side of the fence...?

Will it not be a power hungry beast; we do not want a GPU that is causing cooling bills to skyrocket in the summer & heating bills to plummet in the winter...?!?

(...okay, that winter part might not be too bad...)

Will Big Navi deliver GPUs that can go toe-to-toe with RTX 2080 / RTX 2080Ti / RTX Titan...?!?

Will Big Navi be able to "hang with the Big Dogs", but still keep a check on power consumption & excessive heat output...?

And beyond that, will (again, assuming above rumors hold to be true) the favorable pricing & performance of the above Small Navi GPUs allow AMD to get a solid foothold in the GPU marketplace & begin to actually take some market share from Nvidia & reverse the overall negative feeling that most PC users (gamers / content creators / power users / etc.) have against AMD GPUs...?

If AMD can get popular opinion back on their side, then maybe what is AFTER Small & Big Navi will really be allowed to shine in the future GPU market...

Right now, I want a new system with a mid-range Zen 2 CPU & top-end Small Navi GPU... The Gaming Rig...

I also want a new system with a top-end Zen 2 CPU & top-end Big Navi GPU... The Workstation Rig...

And I can only imagine what powerful systems we might get with Zen 3 CPUs & AMD Next-Gen (Post Navi) GPUs...!
 
$250 for a 1080 equivalent card is nice and all but it's super disappointing considering that's basically what a vega 64 competes with.......... Plus nvidia cards have nvenc which is way better than the AMD encoding options.
 
$250 for a 1080 equivalent card is nice and all but it's super disappointing considering that's basically what a vega 64 competes with.......... Plus nvidia cards have nvenc which is way better than the AMD encoding options.

Clearly you missed the entire thread and it’s points. So it’s disappointing to you that AMD will cause NVIDIA to drop their prices then you can pick up your favorite NVIDIA card for cheaper? Must be soooooo disappointing right since you won’t get to pay extra 100.

Vega basically does that. Oh for 400-500 or wait at twice the power. So you are saying AMd should remain power hungry and charge more?

Lol! Sometimes I really scratch my head at some of the comments.
 
Clearly you missed the entire thread and it’s points. So it’s disappointing to you that AMD will cause NVIDIA to drop their prices then you can pick up your favorite NVIDIA card for cheaper? Must be soooooo disappointing right since you won’t get to pay extra 100.

Vega basically does that. Oh for 400-500 or wait at twice the power. So you are saying AMd should remain power hungry and charge more?

Lol! Sometimes I really scratch my head at some of the comments.

I can't be disappointed that AMD has made absolutely no significant performance improvement over their current vega cards? I agree the card will be great value at $250. But that is all it will be. And like I said, unless things change, nvidia has nvenc which is important for a lot of people. AMD has an h264 encoder but the quality is terrible in comparison.
And I never said they should charge more...
 
I can't be disappointed that AMD has made absolutely no significant performance improvement over their current vega cards? I agree the card will be great value at $250. But that is all it will be. And like I said, unless things change, nvidia has nvenc which is important for a lot of people. AMD has an h264 encoder but the quality is terrible in comparison.
And I never said they should charge more...

They are going to target the market that sells the highest at first. There will be entirely new architecture that’s been in the works for higher end soon. It is what it is. I would rather have them focus and deliver a good product when it’s ready instead of running in to Polaris and Vega mess.
 
$250 for a 1080 equivalent card is nice and all but it's super disappointing considering that's basically what a vega 64 competes with.......... Plus nvidia cards have nvenc which is way better than the AMD encoding options.

I think $250 or even $300 for Nvidia 1080 performance would be OMGWTFBBQ levels of good. No one has been moving the price bar for a few years now, releasing that much performance for $250 would finally get prices lowering. Vega is decent and all, but they didn’t move prices with it.

I think people are finally resisting to the higher prices Nvidia has been pushing. Something needs to reset pricing or we’ll be paying $500+ for any decent GPU in a few years.
 
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$250 for a 1080 equivalent card is nice and all but it's super disappointing considering that's basically what a vega 64 competes with.......... Plus nvidia cards have nvenc which is way better than the AMD encoding options.

I can't be disappointed that AMD has made absolutely no significant performance improvement over their current vega cards? I agree the card will be great value at $250. But that is all it will be. And like I said, unless things change, nvidia has nvenc which is important for a lot of people. AMD has an h264 encoder but the quality is terrible in comparison.
And I never said they should charge more...

Navi is Vega done right, and this is Small Navi... Higher performance (and higher power budgets & higher product cost) will come with Big Navi... And I bet Big Navi will be a "great value" compared to the RTX 2080 & up Nvidia line of Products...

As to encoding, that is what all those extra cores on Ryzen CPUs are for...!

I think $250 or even $300 for Nvidia 1080 performance would be OMGWTFBBQ levels of good. No one has been moving the price bar for a few years now, releasing that much performance for $250 would finally get prices lowering. Vega is decent and all, but they didn’t move prices with it.

I think people are finally resisting to the higher prices Nvidia has been pushing. Something needs to reset pricing or we’ll be paying $500+ for any decent GPU in a few years.

300 bucks for RTX 2070 / GTX 1080 performance, on a 150 watt power budget; yes, please...!

Imagine Big Navi in three tiers competing with RTX 2080, RTX 2080Ti & RTX Titan, hopefully with somewhat lower power budgets, but at 1/2 to 1/3 the cost...!!!

Vega might have had a chance to move the pricing bar if it weren't for those pesky miners, but if we can get Big Navi as outlined above, that would definitely move some pricing bars...
 
$250 for a 1080 equivalent card is nice and all but it's super disappointing considering that's basically what a vega 64 competes with.......... Plus nvidia cards have nvenc which is way better than the AMD encoding options.

Oh you have an inside line on the performance of NAVI's x264 encoder performance?
Please tell.

Oh wait, you don't.
Never mind, you were assuming.
 
Oh you have an inside line on the performance of NAVI's x264 encoder performance?
Please tell.

Oh wait, you don't.
Never mind, you were assuming.
I'm assuming based on their current lackluster encoding quality. and I'm assuming just like you guys are assuming tehy will have something to compete with the higher end nvidia cards.
 
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My first thoughts, who cares? Wait till the reviews, whenever that happens.

Nvidia is rapidly destroying their credibility with over the top price hikes, hardware issues and blantant misrepresentation of their new features. Add on the GPP BS they tried to pull and almost got away with it, ASUs, MSI and others caving in. Only one person had the guts, the courage to reveal the truth. Frankly Nvidia won, almost, wait - they were stopped. Still Nvidia is now selling partner cards, competing with them, with less left for others to sell.

People will get sick of this type of play with very long memories. Nvidia maybe on top in this game now but I see them falling quick.
 
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I'm assuming based on their current lackluster encoding quality. and I'm assuming just like you guys are assuming tehy will have something to compete with the higher end nvidia cards.


I've seen several that say there is little difference between AMD and Nvidia encoding x264.
Maybe it's your software?
Plex? Plex encoding problem is the software, which I use but sucks on support.
 


I've seen several that say there is little difference between AMD and Nvidia encoding x264.
Maybe it's your software?
Plex? Plex encoding problem is the software, which I use but sucks on support.


Sorry, I'm not talking about this sort of encoding. I'm talking about live encoding for streaming and recording gameplay footage. I'm pretty sure the testing he does is not relevant for this functionality.
 
I don't think many people quite understand what Navi's purpose is.

It's to replace Vega (which AMD is selling at a loss).

The problem with Vega has always been its high production cost, specifically the HBM2 memory.

Because Vega is bandwidth starved (thanks to poor memory compression) and uses a lot of power, AMD had to use HBM2.

GDDR6 (which is cheaper than HBM2) provides bandwidth that's close the HBM2, but a significantly higher power consumption.

With AMD going from GloFo 14nm -> TSMC 7nm, AMD can use the power saving from die shrinking the GPU to accommodate the higher power consumption from GDDR6.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Now, since AMD was losing money with Vega, I don't expect AMD to lower the prices with Navi (unless forced to do so by NVIDIA).

Rather, I expect Navi to maintain Vega's prices.
 
I don't think many people quite understand what Navi's purpose is.

It's to replace Vega (which AMD is selling at a loss).

The problem with Vega has always been its high production cost, specifically the HBM2 memory.

Because Vega is bandwidth starved (thanks to poor memory compression) and uses a lot of power, AMD had to use HBM2.

GDDR6 (which is cheaper than HBM2) provides bandwidth that's close the HBM2, but a significantly higher power consumption.

With AMD going from GloFo 14nm -> TSMC 7nm, AMD can use the power saving from die shrinking the GPU to accommodate the higher power consumption from GDDR6.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Now, since AMD was losing money with Vega, I don't expect AMD to lower the prices with Navi (unless forced to do so by NVIDIA).

Rather, I expect Navi to maintain Vega's prices.


The only way AMD could do that is if Navi comes clocked @ reference V56-ish speeds....You can't have the extra 300-400Mhz headroom VII has in the same power envelope if you take that power envelope away in order to give it over to the overhead GDDR6 needs...

I am not saying that Navi would not perform and sell very well at V56/64 speeds, but if you want performance uplift (unless you go with a much wider bus giving Navi more memory bandwidth* assuming it has the same bottleneck as VEGA, which it should if its just GCN) you have to expend more power in order to boost clocks. IT will be interesting to see what they come up with.
 
The only way AMD could do that is if Navi comes clocked @ reference V56-ish speeds....You can't have the extra 300-400Mhz headroom VII has in the same power envelope if you take that power envelope away in order to give it over to the overhead GDDR6 needs...

I am not saying that Navi would not perform and sell very well at V56/64 speeds, but if you want performance uplift (unless you go with a much wider bus giving Navi more memory bandwidth* assuming it has the same bottleneck as VEGA, which it should if its just GCN) you have to expend more power in order to boost clocks. IT will be interesting to see what they come up with.

One of the big advantages that NVIDIA has over AMD that hardly anyone talks about is superior delta color compression.

It's how NVIDIA can get away with using far less bandwidth.

My source stressed to Raja how important it is, but that fell on deaf ears as Raja focuses on splashy new features.
 
One of the big advantages that NVIDIA has over AMD that hardly anyone talks about is superior delta color compression.

It's how NVIDIA can get away with using far less bandwidth.

My source stressed to Raja how important it is, but that fell on deaf ears as Raja focuses on splashy new features.

You are correct in that. AMD made strides with the launch of Tonga, but they still lag way behind Nvidia there. I am sore over the lack of the primitive shader/DSBR that was promised. I ended up happy with my cards, especially since they made me a good bit of money (my mining cards paid for my gaming VEGAs) but having Radeon VII performance in August of 2017 would have made things much better for AMD, and ultimately, the consumer.
 
You are correct in that. AMD made strides with the launch of Tonga, but they still lag way behind Nvidia there.

...and while NVIDIA continued to improve its delta color compression, AMD didn't even do anything

I am sore over the lack of the primitive shader/DSBR that was promised. I ended up happy with my cards, especially since they made me a good bit of money (my mining cards paid for my gaming VEGAs) but having Radeon VII performance in August of 2017 would have made things much better for AMD, and ultimately, the consumer.

It's like you have a home addition project, but half way through, the contractor abandoned the project.

So, now you have a second story that can't be used.
 
Assuming no significant architectural improvement, I would expect it to perform somewhere between Radeon RX Vega 56 and Radeon RX Vega 64 while having the power consumption of the Radeon RX Vega 64.

The GPU's would run at Radeon RX Vega 56's clock speed.

Memory bandwidth (assuming 8GB GDDR6) would 448.0 Gb/s, which is around half way between Radeon RX Vega 56's 410.0 Gb/s and Radeon RX Vega 64's 483.8 Gb/s.

That would put it in Geforce RTX 2060's territory.
 
Assuming no significant architectural improvement, I would expect it to perform somewhere between Radeon RX Vega 56 and Radeon RX Vega 64 while having the power consumption of the Radeon RX Vega 64.

The GPU's would run at Radeon RX Vega 56's clock speed.

Memory bandwidth (assuming 8GB GDDR6) would 448.0 Gb/s, which is around half way between Radeon RX Vega 56's 410.0 Gb/s and Radeon RX Vega 64's 483.8 Gb/s.

That would put it in Geforce RTX 2060's territory.

I highly doubt AMD releases a card with Vega 64 power that is slower than Radeon 7 since that is similar power to Vega 64, so it will be even worst on paper. I do expect Navi to have some decent improvements in Architecture. Since sony worked along with them as well. I think power consumption will be a major improvement with Navi since it is also going in consoles.
 
I highly doubt AMD releases a card with Vega 64 power that is slower than Radeon 7 since that is similar power to Vega 64, so it will be even worst on paper. I do expect Navi to have some decent improvements in Architecture. Since sony worked along with them as well. I think power consumption will be a major improvement with Navi since it is also going in consoles.

That's a huge mountain to climb.

AMD would have to update its delta color compression (which hasn't been updated since Tonga) to be on par with NVIDIA's 4th gen delta color compression used in Pascal. (assuming 8GB GDDR6, providing memory bandwidth of 448.0 Gb/s)
 
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