My Ubuntu experience

JimmiG

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
2,429
Why Linux?
This all started when I had to reinstall XP on my old laptop. After doing this, I went online (from my desktop machine) to search for drivers, only to find that HP had essentially ceased supporting my laptop. Drivers for some key components like audio and video were no longer available, and even though there were several different wireless drivers available, none would install successfully. I'm soon leaving home and will be away for at least two weeks, so I absolutely needed my laptop to be working. I had been wanting to try out Linux again for quite some time, and this seemed like a good excuse.

My previous experiences with Linux
I've been checking out Linux every now and then for several years, but always gave up when I eventually hit a “brick wall”. Usually, the lack of a driver would stop me. Sometimes, I'd even find the driver, but it would be too hard to install it. Often, the “friendly” GUI applets provided with the distros for handling things like system configuration, hardware and software installation, networking etc., would collapse like a house of cards, forcing the user to resort to the terminal and editing configuration files to repair the damage. This made tasks that should be very easy in a modern operating system incredibly difficult and complicated. Needless to say, my expectations were not very high.

Installation and hardware support
The specifications of the laptop are: Pentium M 1.6 GHz, Radeon 9600, 512MB RAM, Atheros wireless LAN, 40GB harddrive. This time I decided to go with Ubuntu 8.04. I was also considering OpenSuse, but it's a 4GB download instead of 700MB and would probably have used more space on the laptop's small drive

After downloading and burning the CD, it was as simple as booting from it. After a very lengthy boot process (just when I thought the computer had locked up at the boot screen, it sputtered back to life again), I was looking at a fully functional Linux desktop with working audio, (2D) graphics and..behold..networking (both wireless and wired). This allows you to preview the OS without having it touch your harddrive at all. To install the OS permanently, you just click an icon on the desktop. Installation is very simple, I basically just clicked next a couple of times and I was done. Some more advanced options are available but since my XP installation was useless anyway, I let the installer automatically use the entire harddrive for Ubuntu.
After installing it proper, boot time was more acceptable – still slower than XP, but acceptable nevertheless. Out of the box, almost everything was working. It was nothing like the experience I've had with earlier distributions. It was possible to configure the network and many other things using the provided GUI tools – no need to open a single terminal window. My main Vista rig does have a shared printer that I have not yet installed, but I'm hoping that will be just as easy. Even enabling 3d acceleration was easy and achievable from within the GUI. This was one of the most difficult, if not impossible, things to do in previous Linux distributions, requiring many frustrating hours with the terminal, a text editor and if at all possible, some hard liquor.

Look and feel
Other than the fact that Linux now “works”, unlike earlier distro's, it still looks and feels like Linux. Most of us already use things like OpenOffice and Firefox under Windows, so it's easy to adapt. It will take some time for new users to get used to the Linux terminology and directory structure, but it shouldn't be overwhelming.
Ubuntu uses Gnome with a custom theme by default. The default Ubuntu theme isn't exactly pretty. I think a blue, silver or maybe green theme would look more “modern”, but I'm told the brown theme is supposed to symbolize “humanity”.. Whatever. My computer is a machine, not a “human”. At least the theme is easy on the eyes, and you can always change it when you've had enough. It also looks somewhat outdated, with flat-looking icons and toolbars and an overly simplified file manager that reminds me of Windows 98. I wish Linux would stop treating all new users like “dumb users”. User friendliness is about designing a good and consistent user interface, not about making it as simple and dumbed down as possible. I may not be that experienced with the Linux environment, but I'm not dumb or inexperienced with computers. In the past, I've used many different versions of Windows, MacOS and even AmigaOS.
The “Applications” menu is also far more simplistic than the “Orb menu” in Vista or even the older Start menus..it's just a simple cascading menu with links to various apps. I especially miss the recently used apps, recently used documents and instant search from Vista. You can probably add features and change things to your liking, but out of the box, Ubuntu looks simplistic and outdated, like a cross between Win98 and MacOS “Classic”.
Since I got OpenGL working, I even got “Compiz” (the Linux equivalent of Aero) up and running. It didn't really add much to the experience, nor did it make the GUI look “prettier”. It basically adds a ton of annoying animations everywhere...Woobly windows are fun, for about five minutes. Then you begin turning the effects off one by one. There are a few application switching methods that can be fairly useful, but there are too many of them and too many different keyboard shortcuts to keep track of. It's simply too overwhelming, slowing down the workflow rather than speeding it up. Hopefully, developers will learn to use the effects only where necessary to enhance the user experience, rather than overwhelming the user with dazzling animations everywhere. Since it's a laptop, and battery life is important, I went back to the old 2D engine.

“Kubuntu”
While Ubuntu comes with only Gnome by default, you can easily install KDE 3, 4, or even some other environment. There's also “Kubuntu”, which comes with only KDE by default (there's a separate version for KDE4 and KDE3). If you download Kubuntu and later decide that you want to use Gnome, that's also very easy to accomplish. Note that KDE doesn't come with many of the Ubuntu-specific customizations or the brown color scheme etc. It's a pretty “generic” KDE desktop, without the “Ubuntu feel”.
KDE4 is very new and still suffers from some annoying problems and questionable design decisions. It looks like a bizarre combination of OSX and Vista. It has the start menu from Vista, but with Aqua scrollbars. The file manager looks like the one in OSX but doesn't work quite in the same way. It's very confusing at first, but seems to be more powerful than the Win98-style file browser in Gnome. Window borders have the same color (or rather, shade of grey) no matter if the window has focus or not, making it hard to tell which window is active. Also, strange error messages have a tendency to pop up when you least expect it. Gnome and KDE will coexist quite happily, so feel free to try it out. You can even launch Gnome applications inside KDE – they'll look awful, but they will work just fine, most of the time.

Conclusion
I'll keep Ubuntu installed on my laptop for sure. I basically use it for email, IM, web browsing, word processing and mp3's, mostly when I'm away from home and my desktop rig. Ubuntu works great for this. There's tons of third party apps for other daily tasks as well.. Indeed, for most tasks, it's at least as good as Windows. It's certainly cheaper, because you don't have to buy a $400 program for every little task you want to accomplish. Buying a Vista and MS Office license would cost almost as much as a complete computer system, which is ridiculous. With more third party software and games, Linux would be able to do everything that Windows does today, and more.

I will not, however, try to install it on my desktop computer. Sure, I do a lot of web browsing and emailing from it, but I also use it for games and music production. I also have a very stable Vista installation that I don't want to risk loosing. Vista is a very, very good OS, except for the cost and restricted licensing terms. Some games are ported to Linux, but not nearly enough. There are probably some audio workstation programs for Linux, but I'd really miss the wonderful masterpiece of software engineering that is Ableton Live 7, and my huge library of Windows-only VST plugins. If more games were available, I would possibly have made Linux my default OS, only switching to Vista to run Windows-only games and music software.
 
A well balanced and fair review. Glad to see that linux has evolved into something you can use, and that you aren't holding what was the case several years ago against linux today. Too many people come in here trashing linux for perceived short-comings but what they're talking about has been solved years ago. It would be like me trashing windows because there were things I didn't like about WinME.

One note about Kubuntu with KDE4. Kubuntu 8.04 contains an early release of KDE4, which was not really intended for mass consumption. Are your impressions of KDE4 based on the 4.0 or the 4.1 line?
 
I'm using KDE 4.0.3 which is what got installed when I downloaded the kubuntu KDE4 package. I realize it's an early version and some of the error messages and other minor problems are to be exptected. For example, every time I click a textfile, Kate opens without problems, displaying the file. When I close Kate, I get an error message from Dolphin telling me it was unable to launch Kate...even though it just did. Also, the manual network configuration applet would not launch unless you install a KDE3 package for manual network configuration (apparently it still relies on the KDE3 network config applet). This is a big problem if you have a fresh KDE4-only install and a network with static IPs, because you'll have to transfer this package manually from a connected computer using e.g. a flash drive, unless you know how to edit the configuration file to use a static IP.

My main problem with KDE4 is how it tries to copy Vista and OSX. Just because Vista added in-place navigation and instant search to the start menu doesn't mean KDE has to change to also include that...and why in the world did they choose to copy apple's aqua-type scrollbars in the default theme? Things like that belong in third party themes and OS lookalike-mods, not in the default theme. I'm sure the developers of KDE4 could have designed a nice, attractive user interface without copying others.

Given a few bug fixes and a well designed third party theme that doesn't try to copy OSX and Vista, I'm sure I'd be quite happy with KDE4.

For now, I'll stick with Gnome which BTW works very well - It lacks some of the bells and whistles and eyecandy of KDE4, but it certainly gets the job done which is what counts in the end. I just wish the file manager didn't look that similar to Win98 and that there was an area for the most frequently used applications (there are probably dozens of programs to add this functionality, hopefully I can find one that isn't an exact copy of Apple's dock :rolleyes: ).
 
The real goodies that are planned for KDE4 are only starting to get rolled in with the 4.1 line. So far KDE4 is a piece of software that only a developer could love. FWIW, I'm still happily using KDE 3.5.

Keep an eye on whats in the repository. The beauty of Ubuntu is the sheer volume of software available via Synaptic. If you don't like a default app, there's bound to be something more to your liking out there.


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I have to agree with you about gnome - their design philosophy is Keep It Simple, Stupid - which pisses me off to no end. It's fine for grandma, but this is the 21st century - most people are familiar with computers. In fact, gnome has pretty much hit a wall as far as innovation is concerned - they're into maintenance mode. As far as KDE4 is concerned, it was a complete rewrite from scratch. 4.0 was a release meant to get casual developers more involved, and 4.1 is supposed to be the first "user" targeted release. From my short experiences testing 4.1 Beta1, it really is worlds better - but still lacks a lot of polish. If you ask me, this can be contributed to many of the applications being direct ports of their KDE3 counterparts - terrible usability included. BTW, once 4.1 is released most KDE4 applications will be available under Windows, too.
 
Good, balanced review :)

On the subject of KDE4, I really want to love it. I've been running Gnome for about 3 years now, and I'm just bored with it. However, I just can't get on with 4.0, and 4.1 has some odd little quirks which still drive me nuts. I can honestly say that on the current dev schedule, I don't think I'm going to switch until at least 4.3.

At the moment, I'm running Hardy with Gnome but using the XFCE window manager for compositing - it's much faster than Compiz, and I no longer "need" the graphical effects to make me feel good about my computer. With the compositor comes the ability to run AWN and widgets, which make a huge difference to me (not to mention the window transparency, which I just can't live without).

EDIT: For your menu issues, you might want to try the Linux Mint menu - download and install from here:

http://packages.linuxmint.com/pool/main/m/mintmenu/mintmenu_4.0_all.deb

Then just add it to your Gnome panel - personally, I think it's by far the best menu out there for Gnome.
 
I really liked ubuntu.

Only thing was that for my work and gaming I needed to keep XP on a dualboot and it ended up being too much effort switching between as Ubuntu didn't really have anything that made it much more appealing than XP.

I loved the package manager though. And how you could dabble with the terminal and X and stuff.

I remember when I installed XP, I had to get my wireless drivers off the vendors website on another computer, put them on a USB stick, and install them, then restart.

With Ubuntu It had already connected to my unsecured wireless network and started downloading updates as soon as i had first logged in.

Might go back to it sometime.

I only used gnome, but i have used knoppix which is KDE i think :S

I assume KDE is meant to be better *shrug*
 
I assume KDE is meant to be better *shrug*

Well, the KDE developers would probably agree with you, but it's horses for courses. I prefer my customised Gnome solution, because it gives me everything I need without getting in my way. Other people don't like Gnome because there aren't configuration options with a million different settings...personally, I prefer to use my computer rather than spend my time playing with settings on it, hence my choice. KDE 3.5 has a lot more options; KDE 4 less so, but I presume that will come with time.
 
I assume KDE is meant to be better *shrug*

Its really a matter of choice. KDE is not "better" than Gnome, but it is different than gnome. Different developers with different philosophies. And they're the two most common desktops but far from the only two.

Lets not start a KDE vs. Gnome flamewar here. :D


216
 
I think OP woulda liked OpenSUSE alot also.

The default UI, in any event, feels more modern.

Also, Linux Mint
 
I think OP woulda liked OpenSUSE alot also.

I have to agree. I've been using openSUSE 10.2 and 10.3 for over a year now and don't regret it one bit. I started out with FC6 and moved to openSUSE with a short stint with Ubuntu. At one time I had all three with XP in a quad boot configuration. I personally have never been able to get into any of the *buntus. Something about them just doesn't sit right with me.

FC6 worked well for me using either Gnome or KDE but something about openSUSE with KDE trumped it. I think it boils down to Yast. It reminds me a lot of Control Panel in Windows which I've always found to be nice. Yast is not perfect by any means (and I'm hoping a lot of things have been changed for the better with openSUSE 11) but it has room to grow.

I also like how openSUSE as of 10.3 had a list of community repositories "built in" which you can select instead of having to add them manually. Adding a repository is not difficult in most instances, but adding a number of them at once can take a while. Another advantage with openSUSE over some others is the "1 click install" for some things. It still needs a lot of work but it looks like it could be promising.

I've seen a number of changes with Linux over the last year and a half or so. It may not be for everyone, but it's getting "better" quickly and all signs indicate this will continue.

 
I really liked ubuntu.

Only thing was that for my work and gaming I needed to keep XP on a dualboot and it ended up being too much effort switching between as Ubuntu didn't really have anything that made it much more appealing than XP.

Did you try out VirtualBox? Its way more lightweight, and a LOT faster than vmware server. I run Kubuntu-KDE4 on my desktop at work, with two XP virtual machines. Everything is snappy as hell.
 
I just tried OpenSuse 11 so here is a quick comparison to Ubuntu, from my perspective. I used the KDE4 LiveCD

Installation/setup – Installation tool looks a bit more professional, offers a few more choices. It installed smoothly just like Ubuntu did.

Setup was a bit trickier – It took a reboot before it would connect to the wireless router. Also you have to manually type the ssid rather than select it from a list. A bit annoying when you don't know the ssid (after looking at my Windows PC, I found out it was “dlink”).

Installation of the ATI driver was also more difficult. Adding the ATI repository and trying to install the driver didn't work. Eventually I found a “1-click install” for OpenSUSE 11, which installed the driver. I also had to run “aticonfig -–initial” even though the instructions explicitly said this isn't necessary in openSUSE 11, only in 10.x.

I chose to try openSUSE 11 because it was supposed to offer the “best” KDE4 experience and I have to agree. No strange error messages or other bugs encountered so far. I'm still not sure the “kickoff” menu is a good idea, it looks a little gimmicky.. but I think it's better than the plain “Applications” menu in Ubuntu/Gnome. I think I'll download the openSUSE Gnome packages and have a look at it. Their version of Gnome is supposed to be heavily customized and comes with a much more pleasing and functional applications menu.

Overall, openSUSE look a bit more modern, but I'd almost have to say Ubuntu works slightly better and is a more solid OS “under the hood”. It's amazing how they managed to hide the complexity in Ubuntu – it looks extremely simplistic and incapable on the surface, but the hardware detection, package management etc. are extremely solid. Ubuntu would really benefit from a development group dedicated to the user interface to make it more powerful while remaining user friendly for newbies. I think openSUSE offers a more rewarding experience for almost everyone. Absolute computer newbies and those who want to be sure that their system will “just work” with minimal hassle will probably be happier with Ubuntu, though openSUSE isn't far behind.
 
Has KDE 4.x finally fixed the lack of email event notification functionality in korganizer or does it remain broken as in previous versions?
 
I just tried OpenSuse 11 so here is a quick comparison to Ubuntu, from my perspective
snip

I started out with Ubuntu and it was great to get my feet wet with Linux. A perfect balance of simplicity and difficulty to help me do what I need to do but dig in and explore the intimacies of the Linux operating system. Simple enough to keep me from ditching it completely but challenging enough to make me work to solve problems.

I moved to OpenSUSE 10.2 but then ditched it after a while due to difficulties with Nvidia drivers (I gave up). Went to Windows XP for school so I could run Oracle, but now went to OpenSUSE 11.0 and will never look back. Ubuntu was great but I needed something more challenging and OpenSUSE has been that challenge. I think that Ubuntu is a "gateway" operating system that hopefully helps users become comfortable with Linux to the point that they can try a more advanced OS. It was that way for me.
 
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