My Slice of Old Stuff

toddfx

Weaksauce
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
124
If you've been perusing the 3DFX thread, you may recognize this. I posted there a few weeks ago when I first started the build, but now i'm finally getting around to giving it a home of it's own so I can post some updates.



Right before I pulled the trigger on a massive dual LGA2011 build just for fun, I took a step back and thought about what I was really doing (usually a step I skip). It was only then that I noticed how terribly I was missing the point. I realized my motives had become too heavily weighted in the pizzazz of fancy parts and crazy core speeds, and not nearly enough about the true appreciation of the hardware. Hell, I rarely even push my OC'd 2600k up to capacity, and I have no clue why I have 32 gigs of RAM.

About that same time, I also became inspired by cmadki4's "Arcaic" case mod. I was also already getting nostalgic, tinkering with Amiga and N64 emulators. So it was then decided that my new project would not be a wasteful over-the-top powerhouse, but instead a vintage gaming machine combining original hardware with plenty of age-old memories of software and games alike.

I began this project about mid-March when I dusted off this old Celeron MMX 433mhz board. It had 64 RAM, a 10GB hard drive, and Intel 82810-DC100 integrated graphics (3MB).

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I've had the computer laying around in closets for about 5 years, after I upgraded my grandparents to XP and received this as my thank-you present.

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She lives!

Next step: make it cool.

What's cooler than the first ever SLI graphics cards? I picked up two Orchid Righteous 3DFX Voodoo2 12MBs, along with the SLI cable and pass-through all together in a pretty solid ebay deal.

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Now it's time for some new memory. 512MB PC100 to max out the motherboard.

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I guess it's time to stick it in a case. It's only temporary though. A new one will be arriving eventually. And yes the CPU heatsink has a fan just sitting loosely on top of it! Got a new CPU cooler coming from Taiwan though...

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At this point I began setting up some software.

When I was starting to install 3D games and troubleshooting issues, I went through numerous testing rounds using various Voodoo2 drivers and Glide/DirectX versions. I went from DX6, to 7, to 8.1, to 9.0c, then back to 8.1 all while also swapping graphics drivers (probably about 20 Voodoo2 re-installs in total). There are loads of third-party Voodoo drivers that claim to be faster and more compatible, but to be honest I noticed zero difference.

After enough testing and research, I landed on DirectX 8.1 and the latest actual manufacturer's drivers v3.02.02. I’m sticking to the stock 3DFX drivers because frankly, I saw no performance gain from FastVoodoo 4.6. Plus I feel more comfortable sticking to the manufacturer’s drivers rather than going third-party. If the FastVoodoo drivers can’t even manage to display the System Info panel correctly, they have already lost my confidence!

However, at that point I realized I had probably made a real mess of the system files with all this back-n-forth. I had used DirectX Buster to remove versions I did not want, but there is still no way to guarantee it is clean. The only way to have absolute confidence that the system is as clean and solid as possible is to do a fresh re-install. Not to mention it was still running off of the same factory install it came with in 1998. I had cleared out most of the Gateway junk, but who knows what else could be lingering around. I went ahead and re-installed Windows 98SE, and here are some specs just after completing that:

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-----------
(about 2 weeks later: )


As you may know, the Voodoo2s are 3D accelerators only. They rely on a third, more traditional graphics card for 2D display. I decided to go with the Matrox Millennium G200 because it is known to pair well with Voodoos, and I am also intrigued by the uniqueness of it's memory expansion capability. I spent extra time tracking down the specific version that had 8MB of onboard memory and also the expansion module with an additional 8MB. Finally got an chap in the UK to send me one for a very fair price.

Matrox Millennium G200 w/ 16MB total (8 + 8)
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Unfortunately though it is the SDRAM version, as opposed to the slightly faster SGRAM variant. However I am happy to live with that, as my research leads me to believe that the SGRAM was only ever applied to the AGP version of the card. I don't have AGP on this board, but Tom's Hardware circa 1998 says AGP doesn't really matter in comparison to PCI anyway, so I still feel cool :cool:

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Alas, a new case. This is the only part of the build so far that is not 1998 authentic. Old cases are far too bulky and limiting. I chose this Silverstone SG-02 because it is compact but also very airy. I want to show off the Voodoo2s as much as possible, so something horizontal and open like this seemed fitting.

I will probably be modding windows into the panel of the case. Or just making new panels all together, depending on how things come together visually later on.

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First step of the transplant is to tear everything down. Here it all is laid out.

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Here’s a recap:

Intel Socket 370 Bryant Motherboard R1

Intel Celeron MMX 433mhz

512MB PC100 RAM

10GB Fujitsu + 20GB WD HDDs

Matrox Millennium G200 8MB SDRAM + 8MB upgrade module (16MB)

2x 3DFX Voodoo2 12MB in SLI (8MB frame buffer, 16MB texture)

Linksys EtherFast 10/100 PCI

Some old CD-ROM

Some old 3.5” floppy drive

1x 60mm fan for HDDs

2x 80mm fans for GFX cards

Unknown Taiwanese brand aftermarket CPU cooler w/ 50mm fan

PSU as pictured is a 90W (yes, ninety watts) Newton Power NPS-90AB, but have since upgraded to a 300W Seasonic SS-300SFD.


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Finally time to swap out that CPU cooler. The old heatsink was a real sucker to get off, and I can see why. This ancient thermal paste was hardened into a puddy.

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All cleaned up, 433mhz of shiny beautifulness...

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The new stack...

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Just out of principal, I cannot let those Voodoo2 cores go totally un-cooled. There is not much space though, so just one step up from no cooling would be some passive cooling heatsinks. Unfortunately they are also a tad small, but better than nothing:

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Wrapping it up. Gonna need a PSU conversion bracket.
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The rubber shrouds of my new rounded IDE cables were total crap in this circumstance. It is so cramped and the thickness of the rubber connector shroud was so thick that I couldn't make the bends I needed to without totally displacing the shroud. So I just saved a headach and chopped them off.

Let all the raw guts just show themselves!
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Notice the bent up HDD cage? That is in part due to the poor cage mounting design of this case, but really it was caused by a jammed factory installed screw that was holding in one of the HDD trays. Had to disassemble the whole sliding cage assembly to get the screw unlodged out.

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This 80x25mm fan proved too thick to clear the SLI cable so much so that it would be impossible to attach the fan bracket. I have since swapped it with a 80x15mm fan instead and it clears just fine.
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Updated spread:
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Windows 98 SE, Intel Celeron MMX 433mhz, 512MB PC100, 3x 3DFX Voodoo2 12MBs, Matrix Millennium G200 16MB, Ethernet, 30GB HDD space (10 + 20)

And finally, the current fully operational selection. Collection is still very WIP and will always continue to grow.
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Some accessories already in place but not photographed:
-Microsoft Sidewinder
-N64 Controller USB adapter

Future accessories to be implemented:
-2x NES controller ports on case
-2x N64 controller ports on case
-9-pin adapter for Commodore Mouse 1351
-VGA -> 9-pin RGB adapter for Amiga 1080 CRT monitor
-Possibly replacing the IDE cables if I can track down 100% black rounded ones (still without shrouds)
-Also possibly replacing the front panel wires with black ones.
-Possibly adding a window or large grill sections.
 
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Is it bad that I enjoyed your worklog a whole lot more than some worklogs with $2000+ worth of new hardware? :D

Nice work man.
 
Wow, this is impressive to say the least! Excellent selection of games.
 
You need more processor! Does that board support 133fsb? I have a S370 P-3 1233 roaming around. The only reason its not in my rig is because my mobo is Slot 1.

Awesome build though!
 
I love it!

This totally makes me want to grab the camera and start pulling stuff out of the closet.
 
I love this so much! I have a Voodoo 2 SLI rig as well, it's a 600MHz Pentium 3 with 384MB of RAM, a TNT2 M64, 2 12MB Voodoo 2s, and a Sound Blaster Live. Runs Midtown Madness 2 smoother than it ever did when I was a kid (it's actually the same computer I used as a kid, but back then it didn't have the power of Voodoo!)
 
Thanks for the comments guys! It has been a lot of fun so far, and I am anxious to put the final touches on it, especially some built-in N64 and NES controller ports.

Software will always be a work in progress though, there are many emulators and such that I would love to get running still!


You need more processor! Does that board support 133fsb? I have a S370 P-3 1233 roaming around. The only reason its not in my rig is because my mobo is Slot 1.

Awesome build though!

I guess in my mind originally, anything over 500mhz might not qualify as being old enough so I decided to just stick with the 433. However as I give it more thought, I do believe it would be wise to take the motherboard up to it's limit. I mean i've maxxed out the RAM and massively upgraded the graphics, so I'm already in the right playing field. Not like i'm trying to build a true DOS machine or something, so why limit myself?

Here's the board's spec sheet, which cites only 66/100mhz FSB. Judging by wikipedia's Celeron & Pentium 3 lists, with socket 370 at 100mhz FSB I could take it up to a Celeron 1500 or Pentium 3 900.

Definitely some food for thought, thanks for pushing me in that direction!
 
Oh well, so that p3 wouldn't work for ya. See if you can't find a 1300+ celly. That would make it a complete and total monster.
 
Love the build. I'd be curious to see how Twisted Metal 2 runs on it. Not that you have to try it, I just think it's a fun game.
 
Is it bad that I enjoyed your worklog a whole lot more than some worklogs with $2000+ worth of new hardware? :D

Nice work man.

well said, i enjoyed it too...made my take out my voodoo banshee to take a look at it again ;)
 
So I really was not happy with how wacky the IDE wires turned out, and I had a specific look in mind that I still wasn't hitting. I tracked down some black Asus IDE cables and decided to have a go at rounding them myself.

I was nervous to be cutting the cable like this, but it ended up being easy to just make a tiny incision (about 1/8th an inch) then just pull it apart for the length of the cable.

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I had a hard time getting shrink wrap over the IDE connectors and was not able to successfully detach them (ruined about 3 other cables practicing trying to detach the connectors intact), so I ended up just zip-tieing sleeving for the time being.

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Also sleeved the front panel connectors:
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A little better than wacky colors maybe...
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I also rounded and sleeved the CD-ROM cable, but actually ended up just folding it instead of cutting it and it worked just as well. More on that in the future post though.

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And now...

...drum role...

New processor!

Pentium III 850mhz.

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New and old:
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Also, another major update:
Got an IBM 9517-001, 17" Trinitron from 1992! To go in line with the vibe of the build, I definitely needed a fitting monitor. After doing some research and also exploring what's available, I found the IBM 9517 to be perfect. It was IBM's leading model of '92, capable of 1280x1024 and originally retailing for $1,110. I got it for under $100 from RecycledGoods.com on eBay, an AMAZING resource for vintage computers, parts, and other electronics.

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The 9517 is a fixed rate monitor, so it needs veeerrry specific refresh rates per resolution. I made sure to double check the specs (using this awesome IBM monitor PDF) against the Matrox G200 and Voodoo2's capable rates before making the purchase. The G200 has an amazing settings manager that lets you fine-tune it down to the Hz. Voodoo's is a tad more limiting, but still gets the job done and stays in line with the 9517's requirements.

It's true the 9517 is a little dated compared to the other components in the build, but if I am going to use a CRT then I want it to be a significantly interesting CRT. The IBM 95 series is among the first to use VGA (XGA) connectivity, and also ranked among the highest resolution displays and best quality of the time. It also looks old! I didn't want anything to have to do with those generic white bezeled CRTs of the late 90s, as that is just boring! I love the dual-tone bezel of the 9517. It looks old but still performs like a champ!

Anyway, my next step is to get the classic controller ports installed. From RetroZone.com I ordered three 9-pin adapters for Atari/Commodore controllers (I <3 Konix Speedking), and two NES adapters. I'm planning to install all these USB adapters inside the case in place of one of the 5.25" bays. Since that will require freeing up one of the two bays, I have a little project planned to move the CD-ROM to an external housing. Lets just say I won the bid on an Apple A9M0107 tonight :)
 
Excellent work good sir. May I suggest, however, painting the Sugo a nice beige colour to suit?
 
Is it bad that I enjoyed your worklog a whole lot more than some worklogs with $2000+ worth of new hardware? :D

Nice work man.

Yes, I am with you on this. Georgious built, reminds me of palying with similar hardware, what was it, back in '96 or '97, maybe '98.....

Oh the memories :flowers:

Well done, Mate, enjoy - what a nice and powerful system, very well suited for the games you intend playing!
 
Hah, nice. That 850 should make a whole world of difference.

Monitors a touch too old for my tastes. I probably would have tried for a nice Gateway 2000 Crystal Scan, or a Sony Trinitron.
 
Thanks for the comments guys!

I got my 9-pin and NES USB adapters in the mail today - pretty nice! I probably won't start on integrating them into the case till this weekend. In the meantime I have plenty of software configuration to do to get them working properly with everything as needed.

Monitors a touch too old for my tastes. I probably would have tried for a nice Gateway 2000 Crystal Scan, or a Sony Trinitron.

haha yeah well, the jury is still out on that one for me as well. Having plenty of issues with it already :cool:
 
wow ,
didnt know old computers were capable of sli.
good job.

What, you didn't know 3Dfx started the whole SLi movement with the Voodoo cards back then? Jeesh, you missed a lot, made for a fantastic experience!
 
Thanks for the comments guys!

I got my 9-pin and NES USB adapters in the mail today - pretty nice! I probably won't start on integrating them into the case till this weekend. In the meantime I have plenty of software configuration to do to get them working properly with everything as needed.



haha yeah well, the jury is still out on that one for me as well. Having plenty of issues with it already :cool:

I've got a 24 inch Sony Trinitron in the back of the shop. It would prolly cost more to ship then its worth though.
 
Oh man, just saw this thread on the [H] homepage. Gives me the fuzzy, warm nostalgic feeling inside. Love it, I may pursue a vintage built myself in the next few months. I still have an original Doom CD laying around that needs to be replayed.

edit: Just realized I've been on HF for over a decade. Damn Gina.
 
Hmm... I wonder if my old V5 5500 still works...

Not sure if it's AGP or VLB, though.
 
you can also add the rainbow runner daughter card to the g200 for video capture and optional hardware dvd decoder chip. that was the shiznit.
 
i'm probably bugging but, what about the old tennmax v2 stealth cooler. they did virtually nothing but, they sure did look cool.

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i'm probably bugging but, what about the old tennmax v2 stealth cooler. they did virtually nothing but, they sure did look cool.

Ooooh nice! Will definitely keep an eye out for those. Totally cooler than my dinky heat-sinks. Thanks for the lead!
 
FWIW - I still have my Celeron 300A, Abit BH-6, 2 -128mb sticks of RAM and a Canopus 3d video card. I framed it.

To this day, I've never built a system that I enjoyed more.

Oh...I love that guys build. Great fun.
 
GD it... You guys in these old school build threads have totally convinced me to build a system from my old parts. Let's see... *digs through box*

Canopus Spectra 2500 AGP 16mb.- check
Canopus Pure 3D II 12MB x 2 for SLI - check
Clot 1 or Socket 370 MB- several of those to choose from in the box - check
P2 and P3s in slot 1 and s370 format - check ( probably have a 1.2 P3... gotta dig)
Sticks of old RAM -- hell yes.. check!
Floppy and Zip drives - check! weeeee!
Inwin A500 mid tower from 1998 (lil brother to the classic Inwin Q500 full tower) - check
PC Power and Cooling Turbo cool 300W ATX PSU - check!
IDE HD... small enough for win 98 support.. hmmmm might not have this one...

heh.. should start my own work log. :D
 
FWIW - I still have my Celeron 300A, Abit BH-6, 2 -128mb sticks of RAM and a Canopus 3d video card. I framed it.

To this day, I've never built a system that I enjoyed more.

Oh...I love that guys build. Great fun.

QFT!!! I still have those parts too~! LOVED playing Tribes 1 in SLI on that with the 2 Pure 3D IIs~!
 
A very impressive build. I was in highschool when the voodoo 2s came out. I had forgotten they required a base graphics card for 2d! It's a Tri vid card setup. You should head over to Good Old Games and download some classics. Post some pics!
 
Nice job. Ewww-eee, does that bring back memories. There's something that was beautiful about having all-green PCBs.

Now to dig out my Cumulus 386 25mhz with math coprocessor to play some Ultima and Wing Commander (both of which I still have on 3 1/2 floppy, about 8 disks per game LOL). I remember having to figure out how to reallocate RAM just to play Ultima since I only had 2mb.
 
Nice build!

But I noticed something afoot with your Voodoo 2's. You're claiming that they're 12MB cards, but the Screen shot with the System Info clearly shows that they are 8MB Voodoo 2's with a total of 16MB of memory. Have you noticed this? I hope you didn't get screwed over on your purchase :(

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need to get some Diablo 2 going on that D2 was epic in glide mode to show off the Voodoo cards
also porsche unleashed was be great too and one of the best looking Glide games ever made
 
Nice build!

But I noticed something afoot with your Voodoo 2's. You're claiming that they're 12MB cards, but the Screen shot with the System Info clearly shows that they are 8MB Voodoo 2's with a total of 16MB of memory. Have you noticed this? I hope you didn't get screwed over on your purchase :(

http://toddkumpf.com/images/forums/433/433-specs_02.jpg [ /IMG][/QUOTE]

They are 12MB. 4MB of each card is used for the framebuffer. 16MB for the rest. 16+8=24MB.

Sweet rig and really like that case! I did see it in the 3DFX revival thread.

Is there some issue your running into with DX9.0c? I haven't run into a issue yet myself. Also you could of just pushed that SLI cable inward... I've never had issue doing it that way.

A quick tip to clear up some of those gaming icons under W98. Move or install all game shortcuts to a "Games" folder in the start menu instead of default locations. Then create a quick launch that points to that Games folder. This keeps things tidy and as you install more games they will automatically list in quick launch tab. I also use the one click feature on the desktop. Much faster than double clicking things.


[url="http://vogons.zetafleet.com/viewtopic.php?t=30450"]Here's[/url] my rig if you want to check it out. I posted about it here awhile back but never updated it like I did on vogons. I don't think people like seeing old hardware in new skins :)
 
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Man, this totally makes me miss my first ever build. It was a Matrox board (forgot which) with an AMD K6/2 266 oc'd to 550, 128meg ram and a 3.2 gig hard drive and a 8 gig hard drive (thought I would never fill an 8 gig drive back then.....) and an ATI Rage 128 16meg vid card. Ran that beast up until I moved from Oklahoma to Vegas and left the computer for my mom. She then in turn gave it to my brother when she got another computer, and he went to plug in a new hard drive while the comp was on, fried everything :(
 
Old school is best school. I've got quite a few parts laying around myself. It makes me want to do a build log.

I do agree that newer systems are well...boring. They're so fast these days that we just automatically expect them to handle everything we throw at them. There's no wonder, no challenge, no excitement, and no need to tinker like we used to anymore. Throw a rig together, slap on an OS, and you're on your merry way. No fun anymore. :(
 
need to get some Diablo 2 going on that D2 was epic in glide mode to show off the Voodoo cards
also porsche unleashed was be great too and one of the best looking Glide games ever made

He is right! Diablo 2 looked fantastic in glide! Def worth trying out.
 
Nice build!

But I noticed something afoot with your Voodoo 2's. You're claiming that they're 12MB cards, but the Screen shot with the System Info clearly shows that they are 8MB Voodoo 2's with a total of 16MB of memory. Have you noticed this? I hope you didn't get screwed over on your purchase :(

Yeah, like RogueTrip said, they are indeed 12MBs. However I too was very confused/upset when I first installed them and noticed the numbers looked than expected at first glance. And to make matters worse, the "FastVoodoo" third-party drivers recommended at 3DFXzone are actually bugged and are known to display even SMALLER numbers. After much testing and debating, I decided to re-install and go with the latest official manufacturer's drivers. Heck, if FastVoodoo can't even display the system info correctly then...WTF.

But yeah, the numbers you see above are correct for SLI 12MBs.


Is there some issue your running into with DX9.0c? I haven't run into a issue yet myself. Also you could of just pushed that SLI cable inward... I've never had issue doing it that way.

A quick tip to clear up some of those gaming icons under W98. Move or install all game shortcuts to a "Games" folder in the start menu instead of default locations. Then create a quick launch that points to that Games folder. This keeps things tidy and as you install more games they will automatically list in quick launch tab. I also use the one click feature on the desktop. Much faster than double clicking things.


Here's my rig if you want to check it out. I posted about it here awhile back but never updated it like I did on vogons. I don't think people like seeing old hardware in new skins :)

Nice! I did see that at Vogons actually. That Black Pearl board is really awesome for 2001. I just googled it and was reading about it on Toms Hardware. Very slick indeed. I love the other cosmetic mods you did as well. It's fun riding that line between old & hot. I registered at Vogons some time ago but have not posted anything yet. Waiting until I put the final touches on this before I do, I guess.

To be honest, I now do not remember why I decided to turn my back on 9.0c lol. I think at the time I was experiencing lots of oddities due to the multiple driver and DX re-installs, so when I re-formatted I just stuck to what I have heard is supported/guaranteed. As we speak though, I am working on making bootable backups of my current hard drive state so that I can experiment with new versions of various things without risking another re-format. Maybe I am being a puss, but I haven't even touched that Win98SE un-official service pack that everybody talks about.

As far as the desktop icons you mentioned, I actually like them! My original intention was to actually line all games up on the desktop haha. It in its self sort of goes against modern ways, which is to yeah tidy it up neatly in folders (or I actually prefer pinning stuff to the start menu now a-days). When I think of old computers, I do think of a cluttered desktop. What makes it "cool" here though, in my opinion anyway, is that they're all games rather than Internet Explorer, AOL, and Gateway icons!

I have even gone out of my way to create custom icons and launch shortcuts for individual DOSbox games and other ROMs that would normally be contained inside an emulator. Crazy maybe, but I wanna use all 786,432 of my desktop pixels :D

He is right! Diablo 2 looked fantastic in glide! Def worth trying out.

Ahh great idea indeed. Maybe I should do it right now as a good way to ramp up for DIII too...
 
I got my 9-pin and NES USB adapters in the mail today - pretty nice! I probably won't start on integrating them into the case till this weekend.

Ok so I lied, I had to go ahead and work on the front connector panel...

Here are the adapters from RetroUSB:

-Three 9-pin for Atari & Commodore (one will be spare)
-Two NES ports
-(should of got N64 ones too)

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In the background you can see some controllers. I was hoping to use that Commodore Mouse 1351 too but my initial test using it with the new adapter was not successful. These adapters automatically install as game devices, no matter what is plugged into them (also even if NOTHING is plugged into them). Will have to do a bit more research to figure out how to use the mouse correctly. NES and Atari controllers are plug-n-play and work perfectly, though!

Also looking forward to retrieving my Konix Speedkings from storage at my mothers house. Waiting until I have a little more space to haul over the entire Amiga 2000 though...I don't want to separate them from the machine!

I'm integrating all of these adapters into one of the 5.25" bays, so tonight I did a little on-the-fly engineering to mount them securely. I sliced some shallow grooves in the NES ports and slid them into tightly fitting sections I cut out of a spare bay cover.
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I precisely eyeballed everything so that I could then slide them into the original white bay cover for a clean finish.
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2 hours and lots of very delicate Dremel & filing work later:
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(Scotch Tape is temporary...)

A little rough around the edges, but should suffice once installed in the case. There will probably be 4 corner screws holding the black bracket to the white bay cover; right now they are just fitting snuggly together. The whole assembly should snap right into place in the 5.25" bay using the white cover's original clips.

The left-over space will eventually be occupied by two N64 ports. Not sure why I didn't just go ahead and order them along with the others...oh wait now I remember, the price! RetroUSB is not cheap, but these turned out to be very nice products and well worth it. Kicking myself now for not just getting the N64s from there too...

These are of course all USB, so I think what I will do is just stick a 6 port USB hub in the bay behind the panel, and route the hub's cable out to one of the rear USB ports (I don't have an I/O shield anyway). Seems like the easiest way, unless anybody has a suggestion. The motherboard has no internal USB headers.
 
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