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My First Worksation(ish)

J

jest

n00b
Joined
Jul 9, 2012
Messages
15
So I've been lurking on and off [H] for some years, might even have a forgotten account somewhere, but have finally decided it's time to do a build. I was so disappointed by the ‘update’ that the MacPro went through and the fact that Mountain Lion seems to only add features that make OSX into a Facebook client, that I will switch back to Windows. Not to mention that AutoCAD on Mac is a joke.


1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Large (A1 paper size) Adobe Creative Suite (Photoshop, Illustrator, Indesign) files. AutoCAD, eventually probably some 3d app.
2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
Quite high I suppose. Keep in mind that I was expecting to buy the MacPro, but realised that for the same price I can (probably) build a fully satisfactory build and throw in a couple of monitors.
3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.

Czech Republic. Availability of parts is the same as the rest of Europe, and I plan on getting everything from one store (Alza)
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
Honestly the answer is everything that goes inside a case. Case, Mobo, RAM, CPU, Fans, PSU, Graphics, Boot disk (SSD), Optical, card reader.
No need for any peripherals.
One thing that is essential is muti monitor support (I lean towards Eyefinity for this). I am willing to pay more for silent parts.
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
None.
6) Will you be overclocking?
No.
7) 7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
Currently a 1920x1200 LG W2600HP, to which I would like to add a 2560 x 1600 30 incher.
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
Next 1.5 weeks
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.
I don't have many USB3 devices, and don't foresee getting any in the near future. eSATA or FireWire would be nice, since I have some external drives that support it.
RAID would be nice to have, but I suppose it's not life or death.
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If so, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
Nope


Here's what I currently have on my daily changing list (all links are newegg, since that's what you are probably used to):


Some notes:
  • This is my first try at a build, so take everything with a grain of salt. The computer would be a major investment, so I want it to "last".
  • 2011 socket, but with the cheapest processor. I figured that I would upgrade to
  • IvyBridge-E or Xeon when the time comes. This is the reason for the Intel mobo, since it apparently supports both SB-E and Xeon. The question is, to what degree is going with 2011 a good choice?
  • The work I'm doing is not mission critical, so no Xeon or ECC for now.
  • FirePro Graphics, mainly due to it's awesome connectivity and OpenCL performance (Adobe and Autocad both take advantage of it).
  • I have included NO COOLING, because I have no idea about it. Help appreciated.
  • The PSU is fanless, but I have no idea if 460W will be able to hold up the machine. rough estimates would indicate yes, since the video card and processor each take 150.
  • However, I have no clue about what the several hard drives I want to cram into the box would take.
  • Again, I would like something quiet.

Thanks for reading, and thanks for your critique.
 
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A few things about the graphics card. You probably mean OpenCL not OpenGL. I would HIGHLY suggest you get a GCN (Graphics Core Next) based card. The card you selected is based on a 6950 gpu, so it is last gen and not nearly as good for compute. You really want GCN for compute.

If you want to stick with a FirePro, I would HIGHLY suggest this one: The FirePro W600 It is based on the GCN architecture, and has a 28nm gpu, and can run 6 monitors. It's not super fast (based on 7750 GPU), but for workstation use it would be fantastic. Being that it is GCN it would also most likely be faster than the card you chose above, but much more efficient, and has 6 monitor support. Note that all the outputs are displayport so you may end up needing several adapters. Try to get a 30" with displayport on it so you dont need the expensive adapters. If you want something faster, I would suggest you go to a 7800 or 7900 series AMD card, as the firepro versions of those get VERY expensive. Actually I dont think the firepro version of the 7800 has even released. Unlike nVidia, AMD does not gimp out their desktop GPU's, so a desktop card with the same GPU as a FirePro will be the same speed for compute. With professional apps you may have better support using a Firepro, but it depends on the apps you use.

As an alt for video, you could look at a desktop 7750, 7770, or 7850, those are all significantly cheaper than the Firepro W600 I selected, but use the same or faster GPU's. You also loose your multi display connectivity going to a desktop card, and generally end up with 2 displayport and 2 dvi (one being dual link), but this will depend on exactly what card you choose.

Also, that 460W will be enough, if you stick to one video card that doesnt suck too much power, like the W600, it doesnt even need any extra power connectors. However you will be pretty much running it at the brim so I would suggest a 500-600w gold/platinum psu. This psu is a decent selection, but there are lots of other great ones too.

Also, I would say go with an Asus mobo, there really isnt any advantage to going with Intel and that board has a really lame old school bios implementation. The Asus P9X79 PRO is a great value, and has a great selection of features for the price.

I generally do NOT suggest getting the 3820 cpu (quad core socket 2011 cpu) as if you want to go with a quad, might as well go 1155/ivy/z77 platform. I'm sure someone else will cover that. I would highly suggest going with a 3930k if you can. 3960x is not worth the money.

For memory, I would go with a 4x8GB setup, that leaves you room for expansion later. Spending tons of extra money for blingy ram is generally a BAD idea, as there really are little to no gains. This Corsair kit will do fine

Intel 330 is a great SSD, however you might want some more space. I would then also suggest a pair of 2-3TB drives to put in a mirror for data. I picked some WD Green 3TB drives, but I also highly recommend Hitachi drives too. If you are trying to save some cash you can just go with one drive and ditch the mirror, but I would highly suggest it.

For cooling I would recommend the Corsair H80, I have one and it works really well, and on a non-overclocked system it will be really quiet as well. Very easy to setup/install too.

Fractal Design Define R3 - $110 -- case is fine
Asus P9X79 PRO - $309 there are lots of options on this also
Procesor Intel Core i7-3820 - $300 -- I would really sugest going 3930k ($569) or going to an 1155 z77/ivy bridge setup
CORSAIR 32GB - $209 - make sure its a 4x8GB not 8x4GB!
FirePro W600 - $594
Intel 330 2.5" 120GB SATA SSD - $130
Kingwin AP550 Platinum PSU - $119
Western Digital Green 3TB - $169 * 2 (If you drop down to 2x2TB is is $119 each)
Corsair H80 - $105

Looks like I saved you some cash too :) I am headed home now, I'll check in on this one later.
 
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extide,

Thanks for your highly informative and quick response. Some comments from me:

extide said:
A few things about the graphics card. You probably mean OpenCL not OpenGL. I would HIGHLY suggest you get a GCN (Graphics Core Next) based card. The card you selected is based on a 6950 gpu, so it is last gen and not nearly as good for compute. You really want GCN for compute.

If you want to stick with a FirePro, I would HIGHLY suggest this one: The FirePro W600 It is based on the GCN architecture, and has a 28nm gpu, and can run 6 monitors.
...

As an alt for video, you could look at a desktop 7750, 7770, or 7850, those are all significantly cheaper than the Firepro W600 I selected, but use the same or faster GPU's.
Click to expand...

Interesting read, I was not aware of the existence of the FirePro W600, but have since looked at an interesting an interview. I also noted that on the AMD site, it is possible to download specific addons for the V900 for an outdated version of AutoCAD, but no addons for the W600 (perhaps it is too new)Checking around, it seems that it's not even available for sale in Europe.

To get to the point, I think that I will instead go for one of the HD 7000 series instead, it seems that the W600 is being targeted at big wall displays and that's what somebody is paying for. I don't plan on ever using more than 3, so the 7000 might be better.

Also, that 460W will be enough, if you stick to one video card that doesnt suck too much power, like the W600, it doesnt even need any extra power connectors. However you will be pretty much running it at the brim so I would suggest a 500-600w gold/platinum psu.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Especially if I go with a 7000 series card, then it will be needed to get a stronger PSU.

Also, I would say go with an Asus mobo,
...
I generally do NOT suggest getting the 3820 cpu (quad core socket 2011 cpu) I'm sure someone else will cover that. I would highly suggest going with a 3930k if you can. 3960x is not worth the money.
Click to expand...
Allright, the reason why I went with the cheapest was that I thought I would update to IB-E later, but it's a good point to get something good straight away and push back whatever update I have planned.

For memory, I would go with a 4x8GB setup, that leaves you room for expansion later.
Click to expand...
I must have linked the wrong product, I originally planned on 4x8. Thanks for the heads up though, I'll watch out for this.


Regarding the drive mirroring, I was thinking to instead use a version backup system (I believe that there will be a Time Machine like thing in Windows 8).


Again, thanks for the feedback so far. I guess the biggest question now is the Graphics. I'm a bit lost in the overkill of choices in the high numbered 7000 series, can you (or anyone) make a suggestion? and is it a good idea to go with a Radeon compared to a W600 (although that card seems inaccessible for now)?
 
Ok, so few things. Those downloads you linked for the V900, are actually for all FirePro FireGL and FireMV cards, so I would assume they would indeed work with the W600.

And lastly the drive mirroring is to protect from drive failure, not necessarily to keep backup versions, they each accomplish a different task, and I would actually recommend both.

Back to video card suggestions, basically I would suggest either the HD 7770 or the HD 7850 (~$290). The 7950 is also available but it is a little more expensive than I think it should be (at ~$320), as it gets so near the 7950 price that the 7950 can become a better option.

For reference here are some specs.
HD 7770 = 1GB vram 128bit GDDR5, 640 stream processors ~$130
HD 7850 = 2GB vram 256bit GDDR5, 1024 stream processors ~$210 <-- my suggestion
HD 7870 = 2GB vram 256bit GDDR5, 1280 stream processors ~$290
HD 7950 = 3GB vram 384bit GDDR5, 1792 stream processors ~$320


As far as upgrading to Ivy Bridge E later, yeah it's something to think about but that is at least 6-9 months away. The 3930k cpu will hold decent value on the used market (for example i7 970/980, still $400+ used) so you should be able to recoup some cost that way. The 3820 will suck on the used market because its the lowest end CPU, and the one everyone is upgrading AWAY from. 3930k is fast now, not later.
 
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If the Ivy Bridge-Es are like the desktop Ivy Bridge, you're only seeing a 5% performance increase at best over the Sandy Bridge-E. So definitely go for the Core i7 3930K. If you're gonna go with the X79 platform, no reason to grab that quad-core Core i7 3820 considering that it performs the same as its desktop counterparts.

Motherboard wise, I'd spend the extra $20 for the slightly more reliable and longer warrantied Asus Sabertooth X79:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131801

Case wise, that Fractal is an ok case. But considering that you're spending so much cash on the rest of the PC, I'd spend the extra cash for better cooling and even quieter computer cases like the following:
$144 - Silverstone RV03B-WA ATX case
$160 - Silverstone RV02B-W ATX case
$178 - Silverstone RV02B-EW ATX case
$220 - Silverstone FT02S-W ATX Case

As for the PSU, I highly recommend the Seasonic X650 Gold 650W PSU. The 460W PSU you chose is basically the fanless version of the X650 Gold. The X650 Gold has been proven to be a very quiet PSU.

HSF wise, do note that the included water pump in those self-contained liquid cooling kits are rather noisy. So if you really serious about a quiet setup, stick with an air-cooling HSF. I recommend the very quiet Noctua NH-D14 SE2011:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608024
 
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Dear extide, Dear Danny,

Thank you.

With your feedback, I have reworked the original build in the post and now have the following:

Things that I'm quite certain of:
Things where I'm hesitating or unsure:
  • Mobo - Asus Sabertooth X79 or ASUS P9X79 PRO. The pro has more stuff, while the Sabertooth has a longer warranty. The questions is: is there an obvious no-go with either of these (eg: cooler would not fit)? and, realistically, will I even be using this mobo for more than 3 years (the warranty on the pro)?
  • PSU - I'm eyeing the be quiet! Straight Power BQT E9-500W because, well, it's quiet and available. A PSU calculator ‘recommends’ 400W for my build, so 500W should be safe. Thoughts?

Does the build make sense? Any thoughts on the two parts where I'm hesitating?
 
As far as the Sabertooth vs Pro, I liked the PCI-E slot layout better on the PRO so that's what I went with, but I was looking for the capability to run 2-3 graphics cards. Either board will suit you just fine. The on-board bluetooth seemed kinda cool too, on the pro, not sure if the Sabertoothhas that.

That be quiet! PSU is a good choice, they are actually not available yet here in the US, so they don't come up much here, but I always hear good things about them.
 
extide said:
Hrmm, the water pump on my H80 doesn't make any noise at all.
Click to expand...
Just going off what SPCR says about liquid coolers. Maybe your hearing isn't as sensitive as theirs?

jest said:
  • Mobo - Asus Sabertooth X79 or ASUS P9X79 PRO. The pro has more stuff, while the Sabertooth has a longer warranty. The questions is: is there an obvious no-go with either of these (eg: cooler would not fit)? and, realistically, will I even be using this mobo for more than 3 years (the warranty on the pro)??
Click to expand...
It's $20 more for two years of extra warranty. So when you relegate this PC as a backup in the future, at least you'll know it's still somewhat protected. Like I said, the Sabertooth is slightly more reliable and has a higher chance of lasting long compared to the Pro. Considering the high-cost of this build already, I'd spend the extra cash insuring that it'll last.

jest said:
  • PSU - I'm eyeing the be quiet! Straight Power BQT E9-500W because, well, it's quiet and available. A PSU calculator ‘recommends’ 400W for my build, so 500W should be safe. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
That particular PSU seems to be ok.
 
Thanks for the feedback again.

I've actually decided to go with the X79 PRO, due to it not having fans and it's slightly bigger connectivity offerings. For the price difference between it and the Sabertooth, I can extend the warranty to 4 years.

Another thing that I noticed is that the Vengence RAM I selected does not fit under the Noctua D14 cooler. Instead I am opting for a lower profile kit.

DJ Big T said:
As for the case, why not get the 650D which is on sale at newegg right now? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139006&Tpk=650d
Click to expand...

Two reasons: I will not be ordering fro newegg, and I like the 550D for silence.



I plan on ordering the build tomorrow morning (in 12 hours)
 
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