Music / Gaming with the HD650 is a Xonar DG enough?

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xAlex79

Limp Gawd
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Nov 21, 2010
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I currently have a Xonar DG sound card, and I plan to buy a pair of HD650 since audio quality seems to be completely sub par on any gaming headsets.

I listen to too much music to just skimp on quality there. I previously had a pair of HD590s but they had an unfortunate accident and now I need to replace them.

I am worried my little Xonar will not be enough to drive the HD650, does anyone have experience with this card?

If you guys know of any better headphones for around ~$350 please let me know.
 
HD650's are true audiophile headphones and most reviews indicate that you should have a real amplifier for them. I'd recommend you save money and get an HD598 for your intended use.
 
They will sound good, but not nearly what they should. You need a proper amp and DAC. You can get the HD650s now, but I would plan on an AMP for sure and a better DAC. I am talking about something along the lines of a WooAudio 6 amp. They supposedly match up perfectly with the 650s

Head over to Head-Fi. There is plenty of resource there for you to read up on.
 
So a sound card is not a proper DAC? Good ones literally use the same DAC chip that just about every "DAC" uses (not the same model, but most people go with Burr-Brown). I agree that you would need an amp of some sort. You could look into the Xonar ST or STX card. They have a headphone amp.
 
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grimster said:
So a sound card is not a proper DAC? Good ones literally use the same DAC chip that just about every "DAC" uses (not the same model, but most people go with Burr-Brown). I agree that you would need an amp of some sort. You could look into the Xonar ST or STX card. They have a headphone amp.
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DACs are far from being the same. Especially as you move up in price. The thing with sound card DACs is that it introduces noise from the PC (HDD etc.). For the most pure sound you want a dedicated DAC. The Asus STX/ST have arguably the best DAC and amp for a PC sound card. I would go with that if you want to stay simple, and the STX will power the 650s sufficiently.
 
I think the more you move up in price the more similar they are. Points of diminishing returns. I've said it many times before and I'm going to repeat it again. If there is noise running around inside of your computer and your sound card picks it up, there is something cheap or wrong with some other component. I'd like to see some actual proof that a "DAC" is better than a sound card.
 
I tend to believe that the overall circuity implementation (and other components) are the more distinctive things that make one source better than another; DAC chips themselves are sold at commodity prices.

Also, to clarify some terms, a DAC is a digital-to-analog converter. All digital music goes through a DAC to create sound. Sound cards have a DAC, on-board audio solutions have a DAC, digital multimedia speaker systems have a DAC. A USB DAC is just a stand-alone DAC that is external from the computer and separated from the amp.
 
The source is what was recorded, not what turns the digital signal into an analog one right before the headphones or speakers. Components aren't hard to be good for cheap, and anything over $200 that turns an digital signal into an analog waveform is pretty much just placebo.
 
grimster said:
The source is what was recorded, not what turns the digital signal into an analog one right before the headphones or speakers. Components aren't hard to be good for cheap, and anything over $200 that turns an digital signal into an analog waveform is pretty much just placebo.
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With a nice set of cans, with a proper matched amp, and lossless audio, you will hear a difference. Maybe not you, but many do. I have to completely disagree with both your posts.

yeah if you are listening to low bit rate audio, or do not have a good set of cans, then yes, it wont matter much.
 
I hear things most people don't hear, except how much things cost. Cost affects hearing greatly, as a justification. If someone spends $1000 on a DAC they are most likely to automatically think it sounds better (usually not even compared to anything) and go around bragging about how much they spent.
 
grimster said:
I hear things most people don't hear, except how much things cost. Cost affects hearing greatly, as a justification. If someone spends $1000 on a DAC they are most likely to automatically think it sounds better (usually not even compared to anything) and go around bragging about how much they spent.
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haha good point. I will still say there is a difference in quality of DACs, however, like you said, it is diminishing returns at a point. I agree with that. Most people will be hard to hear the difference in a blind test of say several $200-$500 DACs.
 
I also don't believe blind tests can be administered on one's self. I don't have much faith in them, either, since they are about differences, not what someone finds to be better quality, and we don't have that long of a hearing memory. This is how most ABX tests come out to be random. They are a tool for doubters of specs and technology, who base their entire existences off things written on paper, and especially theorems...
 
There is not even a valid excuse for not using lossless audio anymore. Portable players can hold so much of it, how long are you really going to be away from home at a time? Days? Even so, people need to maybe realize that if you don't listen to whole albums, why put the whole damn album on a portable device? That seems more wasteful that keeping a bit-for-bit copy of the original.
 
Honestly if you want really good sound from a PC you should not be using a soundcard. Its nigh-impossible to avoid contamination of the analog side of the card with noise from the computer. You can get external USB DAC & headphone amp combos for around $200 that will be fantastic, and far enough along the diminishing returns slope that you get 95+% of the quality of a $1000 dac.

I have been looking at the Ibasso D4 and D6 lately and am itching to pick one up.
 
Love my E7&E9 combo for my 650's

I'm not an audiophile, but I decided to switch things up from my 595's plus Essence STX and I am very satisfied
 
extide said:
Honestly if you want really good sound from a PC you should not be using a soundcard. Its nigh-impossible to avoid contamination of the analog side of the card with noise from the computer. You can get external USB DAC & headphone amp combos for around $200 that will be fantastic, and far enough along the diminishing returns slope that you get 95+% of the quality of a $1000 dac.

I have been looking at the Ibasso D4 and D6 lately and am itching to pick one up.
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Since the inside of my PC is already quite busy, I have a 6990 and a 6970 now in there plus all the WC tubes, an external DAC sounds good.

I have looked at the D4 and D6, what's the difference they both have the same chip but one is $75 more?

Edit: Also I listen to a lot of lossless audio, I know that HD650s are not required only to game, I am looking to get them to get quality lossless music playback.
 
My x-fi titanium hd and fiio e9 sound better with my 650's than the e7/e9 combo. Thats just my ears though. So I took the e7 to work and use them with 555's.
 
IMO you can always spring for an upgrade later. The hd650's do not disappoint, even when under-amped.
 
The headphone amp in Xonar DG, according to Asus, works best with 32-150 ohm impedance, while the impedance of HD650 is 300 ohms, so the amp is a bit underpowered for HD650. It will probably still sound very good, but not optimal for these headphones.

I'm very satisfied with HD650 + Essence STX combo. :)
 
I just recently got a STX and 650 combo. I love it. Even with a parametric EQ to take down the resonant frequency spikes there is still some depth and stuff seems hard to separate when a lot of stuff is going on at once. I am either going to go for swapping the OP-amps or go with a Little DOT MKV amp.
 
xAlex79 said:
Since the inside of my PC is already quite busy, I have a 6990 and a 6970 now in there plus all the WC tubes, an external DAC sounds good.

I have looked at the D4 and D6, what's the difference they both have the same chip but one is $75 more?

Edit: Also I listen to a lot of lossless audio, I know that HD650s are not required only to game, I am looking to get them to get quality lossless music playback.
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The D6 supports 24bit input vs 16bit, and also has a more powerful amplifier section than the D4. Come tax return time I am hoping to pick one of these two units up. From what I have read about them they are both quite good, especially for the price.
 
To the OP, HD650's and an STX would be a great pairing. Although I do prefer the sound of my HD650's through the Xonar Essence One USB DAC, it is also 3x the cost of the STX. STX is a great value at $170.
 
I wouldn't hook any thing like HD650s up to the DG myself. It'll beat onboard, but that's about it. If you really enjoy your music, and consider yourself a discerning listener, buy yourself a good sound card or DAC. If you want to listen to those headphones for real, I'd suggest a decent amp as well. Amplifiers are not all equal, and while the one on the DG may advertise ample power, it will not be equal to what you get from China for $50 these days.

Sound cards don't inherently have this "noise" that I hear all about. I have a sound card connected to some very sensitive output gear, and when there is nothing playing it is as silent as any other piece of audio gear I've ever owned. All sound cards may not be this clean, this one was about $150 a few years ago, so not cheap but not stupid expensive either.

It's one of the slowest computer parts to go obsolete too, this one does 192khz 7.1 and that's still about as good as things get audio wise. As long as my next motherboard has a PCI slot I'm good.
 
I don't find sound cards to be inherently noisy, it's other components, and if they cause audible noise, they are faulty or poorly built. I, personally, will base an entire system around keeping sound output noise-free.
 
I say if you want to properly drive the HD 650s this would be a good start.
 
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grimster said:
I just recently got a STX and 650 combo. I love it. Even with a parametric EQ to take down the resonant frequency spikes there is still some depth and stuff seems hard to separate when a lot of stuff is going on at once. I am either going to go for swapping the OP-amps or go with a Little DOT MKV amp.
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Grimster, check out the Schiit Asgard or Valhalla. They pair great with the 650 and are better than the LD IMO.

ofc one is SS and the other tubes.
 
I was looking specifically for solid state, and what do ya know, the Asgard is less expensive than the tube Valhalla.
 
grimster said:
I was looking specifically for solid state, and what do ya know, the Asgard is less expensive than the tube Valhalla.
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hah yeah. There is quite a few people on Head-Fi who love the combo with the Asgard. I may be picking it because of all the great reviews the Asgard and Schiit products in general get.
 
If you want a cheap combo DAC/AMP that's also gives a pretty good sound, look at the Fiio E10. I switched to the Fiio E10 from a Auzentech HT HD soundcard due to noise.

/edit: I'm using Audio-Technica ATH-W1000X headphones for reference.
 
Over at Head-Fi it has been stated that the E10 and Essence ST use the same DAC chip, for what it's worth.
 
alco23 said:
If you want a cheap combo DAC/AMP that's also gives a pretty good sound, look at the Fiio E10. I switched to the Fiio E10 from a Auzentech HT HD soundcard due to noise.

/edit: I'm using Audio-Technica ATH-W1000X headphones for reference.
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nice headphones, Frequency Response: 5-42,000Hz:eek:

how are they?

and btw, arent the 650 headphones over 10 years old? why bother?
 
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Adam.C said:
DACs are far from being the same. Especially as you move up in price. The thing with sound card DACs is that it introduces noise from the PC (HDD etc.). For the most pure sound you want a dedicated DAC. The Asus STX/ST have arguably the best DAC and amp for a PC sound card. I would go with that if you want to stay simple, and the STX will power the 650s sufficiently.
Click to expand...

Dedicated DACs do not necessarily sound better than a soundcard. He is right, a soundcard is a DAC and more than just a DAC too so better value. Some internal soundcards have shielding and have no EMI issues.
 
I've thought about the E7/E9 combo myself. I figured I would want something more after having it a while, so I am skipping that and going straight to the Nuforce HDP. I'm trying to avoid upgraditis. :)
 
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