MS's Julie Larson-Green comments: Windows RT's days are numbered?

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Saw it linked on slashdot: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/nov/26/microsoft-kill-windows-rt-larson-green

Larson-Green, who is executive vice-president of Devices and Studios at Microsoft, said that the aim of Windows RT was "our first go at creating that more closed, turnkey experience [that Apple has on the iPad]…" but that Microsoft now has three mobile operating systems: "We have the Windows Phone OS. We have Windows RT and we have full Windows. We're not going to have three."

source and context: http://view.officeapps.live.com/op/...nvestor/downloads/events/UBS_LarsonGreen.docx

QUESTION: Could we come back a bit to the Surface? It could be said that the launch of a dual track last year, RT and Windows 8, was somewhat confusing for the supply chain and the consumer. Do you think there is still a viable route here for that dual track to continue, as you've done with the refresh this year, or do you actually think we need a proper reboot of RT from the start? And I guess the question, as well, is exactly what has RT achieved from your standpoint?

JULIE LARSON-GREEN: Sure. So Windows RT, I think there's clearly, when you look out in the industry, there's clearly a need for a simplified consumer electronics experience on devices. So you look at iPad in particular, and it's a turnkey, closed system. It doesn't degrade over time. It doesn't get viruses. It's not as flexible, you can't do as much with it, but it's a more seamless experience, even though more simplified.

Windows can do anything you want it to do. You can write all the way to the metal. You can add things into your startup groups that would affect your battery life long-term. There are cool, powerful scenarios, but they come at a cost in mobility. And so Windows on ARM, or Windows RT, was our first go at creating that more closed, turnkey experience, where it doesn't have all the flexibility of Windows, but it has the power of Office and then all the new style applications. So you could give it to your kid and he's not going to load it up with a bunch of toolbars accidentally out of Internet Explorer and then come to you later and say, why am I getting all these pop-ups. It just isn't capable of doing that by design.

So the goal was to deliver two kinds of experiences into the market, the full power of your Windows PC, and the simplicity of a tablet experience that can also be productive. That was the goal. Maybe not enough -- I think we didn't explain that super-well. I think we didn't differentiate the devices well enough. They looked similar. Using them is similar. It just didn't do everything that you expected Windows to do. So there's been a lot of talk about it should have been a rebranding. We should not have called it Windows. How should we have made it more differentiated? I think over time you'll see us continue to differentiate it more.

We have the Windows Phone OS. We have Windows RT and we have full Windows. We're not going to have three. We do think there's a world where there is a more mobile operating system that doesn't have the risks to battery life, or the risks to security. But, it also comes at the cost of flexibility. So we believe in that vision and that direction and we're continuing down that path.

Hopefully this means that Windows Phone is going to be upgraded for a tablet role, and not that desktop Windows will be dumbed down even more than it already is in 8.x.
 
Right, being given additional functionality right along with what was always there is dumbing down. :rolleyes: It does not really appear that RT itself is going anywhere as long as the Surface 2 is available. However, that does not mean the Surface 3 will ever be produced.
 
I wonder if this relates to the Fudzilla post about Microsoft intending to unite all THREE versions of Windows-- RT, Phone, and desktop Windows-- as a single OS.

http://fudzilla.com/home/item/33219-microsoft-to-merge-windows-operating-systems

The way I see it and seeing this direction Microsoft is going towards, they may want to 100% unify the operating systems-- single kernel that can run on two different instruction sets (X86, ARM), single UI, single ecosystem (Windows Store, Xbox Video, Xbox Music/Shoutcast if they buy it, Office, Skydrive, etc.).

Can you just imagine one OS linked via something like a Microsoft cloud (Azure?) backbone and your phone, tablet, notebook, and desktop PC connected to it with all workspaces and environments unified as one?

Oh my goodness, sometimes hard to imagine this may be what Microsoft really wants to do for Windows as a whole.

Windows 9 & Windows 9 RT may no longer be called that. We may have just simply "Windows".
 
If I recall correctly, the Fudzilla post took one quote and took it to mean that Microsoft was completely abandoning traditional Windows and going full mobile controlled ecosystems. Either Fudzilla or some other place taking the quote out of context.
 
If full Windows is too much for you to handle on mobile, you're a fucktard.
 
I wonder if this relates to the Fudzilla post about Microsoft intending to unite all THREE versions of Windows-- RT, Phone, and desktop Windows-- as a single OS.
The problem is that it's fudzilla, so the analysis is basically retarded.

Right, being given additional functionality right along with what was always there is dumbing down.
Dumbed down OS is dumbed down: http://social.technet.microsoft.com.../thread/18b53644-6c6b-4d32-820a-53134a0913f3/

If all you're doing is facespacing and playing on Steam, there's probably little chance you'd notice how dumbed down Win8 is.
 
I think it makes sense for Microsoft to only have two OSes, one mobile and one desktop, since tablet and phones are used in very similar ways but completely different than desktops. The phone OS and RT have been rumored to be merged for quiet some time.
 
Microsoft is going to try and pull an Apple, but go one step further and make a unified OS where at least Apple has the sense to keep their desktop/ laptop separate from phone/ tablet.
Makes me want to make a full Linux transition that much faster.
 
The problem is that it's fudzilla, so the analysis is basically retarded.

Dumbed down OS is dumbed down: http://social.technet.microsoft.com.../thread/18b53644-6c6b-4d32-820a-53134a0913f3/

If all you're doing is facespacing and playing on Steam, there's probably little chance you'd notice how dumbed down Win8 is.

Right, you clearly know what I do for fun and work, eh? :rolleyes: LOL. Lets see, Win 8.1 Pro on my work desktop, Win 8.1 Pro on my home computer/HTPC, Win 8.1 on my Acer W500 tablet and also Windows Phone 8 on my HTC 8x.

Lets see, am I getting less done then when I was on Windows 7? Nope! :D Do I now have more options to get my work done in different ways? Yep! Not dumbed down at all but then again, are additional options to much for you?
 
I completely understand when some people say there's only need for one OS for everything. But honestly, is it possible? I don't think you can please everyone with one OS.
 
Right, you clearly know what I do for fun and work, eh? :rolleyes: LOL. Lets see, Win 8.1 Pro on my work desktop, Win 8.1 Pro on my home computer/HTPC, Win 8.1 on my Acer W500 tablet and also Windows Phone 8 on my HTC 8x.

Lets see, am I getting less done then when I was on Windows 7? Nope! :D Do I now have more options to get my work done in different ways? Yep! Not dumbed down at all but then again, are additional options to much for you?
What additional options does 8.x provide that 7 doesn't, that relate to "getting work done"?
 
Microsoft sends a lot of mixed messages. They seem to extol the virtues of unified operating systems while at the same time offering more operating systems than anyone else in the industry. A fully-unified OS that operates across all platforms is a fundamental win, but it's unclear whether it'd be a practical win. Canonical is experimenting, and that may end up bearing interesting albeit probably not too popular fruit.

We've so far not seen much evidence of Windows RT being phased out for a full ARM-based Windows, but this is kind of an interesting hint.
 
fact is windows phone and windows rt are both windows on arm, so they're almost the same already. they'll just combine em and call em windows mobile or whatever
 
MS was dumb when they made RT and now they see it. The awesome thing about windows mobile is that it WAS windows CE with a dialer + cellular modem added on. This gave phone users access to a freaking HUGE database of apps.

WP 7 and 8 should have built upon that...but alas they didn't and now they are going to have to merge the two.

This isn't the first time they have tried this, one only has to go back to NT 4 and earlier to have multiprocessor support. The downside was and still is x86 apps didn't run on MIPS or ALPHA and had a crude implimentation to get it to work (somewhat).
 
What additional options does 8.x provide that 7 doesn't, that relate to "getting work done"?

Task bar on all monitors. Full screen apps when I want them well letting the background desktop apps continue to do their thing. Email at a glance. Greater stability than I had before. (Although, Windows 7 was pretty stable as well.) Better memory usage and faster speed overall in the OS. Upgraded task manager and file explorer programs which provide greater feedback.

In addition, faster OS installation on newer hardware than Windows 7. Higher compatibility and a more rapid OS release schedule than 7 had. The OS upgrade through the store makes it easier to install and does not need a Microsoft Account to do so. UEFI and Ultra Fast boot support on supporting hardware. Better, faster support for my FX 8320 processor which, of course, allows me to get my work done quicker or at least with less likely hood of problems.

Now, if you do not agree, that is cool. But, these are the daily facts as I have experienced them. (Oh, and the enjoyment I get out of using a new OS with new things to use and discover.)
 
If all you're doing is facespacing and playing on Steam, there's probably little chance you'd notice how dumbed down Win8 is.

This list is out of date and/or not entirely correct, meta data does show up and there's now booting to the desktop. There were things removed in 8.1 to help with performance and battery life, base Windows now runs on hardware comparable to a phone which I think is necessary to get it into cheaper and more mobile devices, more important than DVD playback today.
 
Task bar on all monitors. Full screen apps when I want them well letting the background desktop apps continue to do their thing. Email at a glance. Greater stability than I had before. (Although, Windows 7 was pretty stable as well.) Better memory usage and faster speed overall in the OS. Upgraded task manager and file explorer programs which provide greater feedback.

In addition, faster OS installation on newer hardware than Windows 7. Higher compatibility and a more rapid OS release schedule than 7 had. The OS upgrade through the store makes it easier to install and does not need a Microsoft Account to do so. UEFI and Ultra Fast boot support on supporting hardware. Better, faster support for my FX 8320 processor which, of course, allows me to get my work done quicker or at least with less likely hood of problems.

Now, if you do not agree, that is cool. But, these are the daily facts as I have experienced them. (Oh, and the enjoyment I get out of using a new OS with new things to use and discover.)
Well, it's not that I don't agree so much as....windows 7 could do full screen apps *while* letting other apps run in the background. Hell, that goes back to...3.1? At least? And "at a glance email" has probably been around for about as long.

Don't misunderstand me, what you like is what you like ( and there's nothing wrong with that ), but maybe you just didn't know how to use all previous iterations of windows?

*shrug*
 
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Well, the only available full screen app is Windows 7 is Internet Explorer and even that, you have to hit F11 to get to it. Full screen and maximized are not the same thing at all. The additional features in Windows 8 with the ability to use things just like in previous versions of Windows makes it very enjoyable to use and fast.
 
You feel that full-screen Metro apps are more conducive to "getting work done" than their maximized desktop equivalents? If so, which Metro apps compared to what desktop apps?
 

Ignoring the fact that the list of 'missing features' does little to demonstrate that Windows 8 is dumbed down, let's assume you're right. So what?

Ubuntu is a highly dumbed down distro of Linux, yet lots of people on this forum won't use anything else, and I could use Ubuntu just fine even though I'd much rather use a real distro. PHP is probably the most dumbed down thing ever created, yet (somehow) people manage to create massive websites like Wikipedia and Facebook using it, and as much as I'd rather eat paint chips than use it, I could develop software with it given sufficient need.

In my opinion I consider anybody who can't drive a manual transmission to be completely incompetent behind the wheel of a car, yet the 90% of Americans who can't do it still (usually) manage to get where they're going in their dumbed down car, and I can still drive an automatic if I have to. If I have a wedding or an important meeting to go to, I'll shave with a straight razor, yet I still get by most days using a dumbed-down razor like everybody else.

In other words, dumbed down really doesn't matter. So even if Windows 8/8.1/8.anything really is dumbed down, it really won't matter, because the 'dumb' users will figure it out and the 'power users' should have no problem doing what they want either. If you really do know what you're doing, a dumbed down Windows should only be easier for you to use, and if you really do know what you're doing, you can figure out exactly how to un-dumb it down as needed.
 
Windows RT rightfully needs to be shot dead where it stands. What an abomination of an idea.
 
You feel that full-screen Metro apps are more conducive to "getting work done" than their maximized desktop equivalents? If so, which Metro apps compared to what desktop apps?

I don't think that he was making the point that full screen apps were better at "getting work done" necessarily. True full screen apps though have there place, maybe not so much on a desktop, but on smaller screen devices such as smaller laptops, hybrids and tablets can be very conducive to getting work done, at least what can get done with smaller devices with touch and pen. Managing free floating windows on these types of devices isn't generally useful, though the snapping can come in handy.

Windows 8 is a hybrid OS, it was meant to run on devices and in situations 7 wasn't and while those scenarios aren't geared for content creation they can have productive uses.
 
I don't think that he was making the point that full screen apps were better at "getting work done" necessarily. True full screen apps though have there place, maybe not so much on a desktop, but on smaller screen devices such as smaller laptops, hybrids and tablets can be very conducive to getting work done, at least what can get done with smaller devices with touch and pen. Managing free floating windows on these types of devices isn't generally useful, though the snapping can come in handy.

Windows 8 is a hybrid OS, it was meant to run on devices and in situations 7 wasn't and while those scenarios aren't geared for content creation they can have productive uses.

Oh, I do find that full screen apps can be good at getting work done on a desktop. However, I do have dual screens at work and I am using Windows 8.1 on them which makes the snap function of them work great. I also have my desktop apps open and 4 different virtual machines running at all times as well.

Right now, I am typing this in full screen Internet Explorer 11 and it works great. My email and another IE windows is on my screen to my left. A lot of what I do is stuff that I start and then wait until it is done. That stuff runs just fine in the background which I do not need to monitor from start to finish.
 
Oh, I do find that full screen apps can be good at getting work done on a desktop. However, I do have dual screens at work and I am using Windows 8.1 on them which makes the snap function of them work great. I also have my desktop apps open and 4 different virtual machines running at all times as well.

Right now, I am typing this in full screen Internet Explorer 11 and it works great. My email and another IE windows is on my screen to my left. A lot of what I do is stuff that I start and then wait until it is done. That stuff runs just fine in the background which I do not need to monitor from start to finish.

I completely agree and I too like using IE full screen even on a desktop, web browsing is an activity that works well full screen on desktops and more mobile devices. And the snapping is cool for a lot of things like a media player, email, Twitter or utility like a calculator.

You Windows 8 how you need on the device that you want. It's all there but there is a learning curve and there may be need of 3rd party tools if one just can't deal with the Start Screen. But even I, a person that actually likes the new UI overall, has found a new respect for it since picking up an 8" Dell Venue 8 Pro. On that kind of device the new UI is a must, and even makes using the desktop easier as launching even a desktop app from the Start/Apps Screen is much better than do that with the old Start Menu.

Been doing the family thing for Thanksgiving and everyone loves this little V8P. The ease with kids pick up this UI is astonishing sometimes, saw an 8 year girl pick up the snapping without me saying anything to her, she even got on to YouTube using IE modern. Microsoft has made its fair share of mistakes with this UI but it's becoming more and more clear that this UI has a good deal more intuitiveness in it than many here will say.
 
Says the person who has never owned one? :rolleyes:
Any Windows 8 user also 'owns' Windows RT, considering RT is primarily a restricted and subsetted version of Windows 8. You don't need to own an RT device to be able to understand the RT experience: it's the same as Windows 8, only constrained in capability.

I have a Surface Pro. That's not an RT device. I, however, know exactly what the Windows RT experience is capable of delivering. As does any other user reasonably familiar with Windows 8.

Right now, I am typing this in full screen Internet Explorer 11 and it works great.
The question wasn't whether full-screen IE "works great" but whether full-screen IE — and whatever other full-screen applications you're using, Metro or no — are more conducive to getting work done than their windowed equivalents.
 
You don't need to own an RT device to be able to understand the RT experience: it's the same as Windows 8, only constrained in capability.

Agreed. However one does need to use modern apps with a touch device to understand it. It's intent and full capabilities are not realized only with a keyboard and mouse.

I have a Surface Pro. That's not an RT device. I, however, know exactly what the Windows RT experience is capable of delivering. As does any other user reasonably familiar with Windows 8.

A device like a Surface Pro exposes a lot more capability than current Windows RT devices. There's an open desktop with the ability to use any desktop program and it can all be done via touch. And the Pro has a digital pen which no RT device has. One can get the idea of Windows RT on a device like the Surface Pro but even on a tablet x86 Windows is a different animal. I'm not at all a Windows RT fan, have said that from the beginning but even as a heavy Windows 8.x x86 touch and tablet user I know there's a big difference with RT, indeed a difference I don't care for because I like the capabilities of Windows x86 on tablets which mainly focus on pens.

The question wasn't whether full-screen IE "works great" but whether full-screen IE — and whatever other full-screen applications you're using, Metro or no — are more conducive to getting work done than their windowed equivalents.

What does "getting work done" have to do with free floating windows? What if work entails using a web based app that needs a full screen anyway? Modern apps in 8.1 don't have to be full screen.
 
I thought the one size fits all mentality has been proven wrong so many times before that most companies have actually given up on that monolithic scheme? Good lord they really need to clean house...
 
lol at the windows 7 has no full screen aps

don't make me laugh

right click taskbar choose auto hide
open app and hit maximise button

pretty much any game can run full screen and that feature has been there since at least windows 3.11
 
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