Moving Exchange from SBS2003 to Standalone Box?

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TechieSooner

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I have an SBS2003 server. Server needs are increasing, so I'd like to pull Exchange onto its own server.

SBS2003 integrates itself so well with all the other components, not sure how well it would work.
For example, hitting the server from a web browser, you get all the Remote Desktop options, Email options. Remote desktop options from that webpage would stay the same, however what about the email options?????? Would this redirect to the Exchange server?

And when adding a user account in Active Directory, you get the option right there to create a mailbox for them.... How will this be changed?

And on the Exchange box itself, would you configure as a secondary DC, and the only thing running is Exchange?
 
You cannot separate the core components of SBS, it's against the licensing to go try to relocate Exchange to another server, physical, or virtual.
 
I would define "server needs are increasing".

How many users?

Any other applications running on this server?

Standard or Premium?

What hardware specs is this server? CPU/RAM/Hard drives type/spindle speed
 
Sounds like maybe thinking about SBS 2008 =), would allow you to increase memory and give SBS more fuel.

But give us some more details.

Probably better idea to move any applications off the server if you are handling that.
 
Probably 60 users... More to come (how many more- no idea... But I should be thinking about more than 100 users at this point).

Standard SBS 2003
CPU: Dual Core Intel Xeon 5130 2.0Ghz
RAM: 2GB Currently, waiting to get another 4GB in.
HDD: I think 15K... They are in a RAID5.

I've got document imaging system on here, anti-virus, faxing software, backup software, files, timeclock software, backup software, IM software... The works on it. It's a single machine.


The problem is that I am looking at going with Blackberry Enterprise Server, and I think that (along with 100 users on Exchange) will tax things pretty heavily.
 
id look into going to Server 03 or Server 08, you are deff not small business when you reach that number of users.

if anything you can grab a second machine and move some of those duties over to it, but its only gonna delay the inevitable

o yeah just remembered SBS 2003 has 75 user limit. so yeah put it in the budget for another server or 2, and a swing migration.

i would have a DC/File Server, Exchange box, then Application Server.
 
60x users and definitely growing, yeah you'll want to outgrow SBS and step on up to individual servers. SBS maxes to 75 users, I believe SBS 2K8 will drop it to 50 users.

You'll want the "SBS Transition Pack"...which removes the constraints of SBS, user limit, AD limitation, etc....allowing you to now spread out to separate servers.

I have 1x client that is in the mid 60's as far as users, they're still on SBS, won't be growing soon..but I've spread their load to 5x servers.
*SBS, running the standard infrastructure and Exchange, RWW, Sharepoint
*A 2K3 server running all their file storage and print serving
*A 2K3 Terminal Server
*A 2K3 server running their Blackbaud and MAS90 accounting, as well as their NOD32 antivirus management, and wireless management
*A 2K3 server running their primary healthcare database.

Maxing your RAM out to 4 gigs would be my first step in your case. Most of my SBS clients are running 4 gigs in their server, small or large networks. It's so cheap right now, and gives such a performance boost. Your serving 60 users with nothing else running must already be getting hammered at just 2 gigs..not to mention running the other things like agents for timeclock software. I could see spreading the load of your setup to 3 or 4 servers easily. I'd put BES on a different server.

If you have some time before they grow to the limit....might consider waiting a bit to see more about Microsoft EBS. It's due out this Q4....and I'd want to wait at least 6 months til after its out before putting it into production at any clients, same goes with SBS2K8. There's bug fixes to be released, compatability issues in software, etc.
 
TechieSooner said:
Probably 60 users... More to come (how many more- no idea... But I should be thinking about more than 100 users at this point).

Standard SBS 2003
CPU: Dual Core Intel Xeon 5130 2.0Ghz
RAM: 2GB Currently, waiting to get another 4GB in.
HDD: I think 15K... They are in a RAID5.

I've got document imaging system on here, anti-virus, faxing software, backup software, files, timeclock software, backup software, IM software... The works on it. It's a single machine.


The problem is that I am looking at going with Blackberry Enterprise Server, and I think that (along with 100 users on Exchange) will tax things pretty heavily.
Click to expand...
The BES doesn't actually use that much resources
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
60x users and definitely growing, yeah you'll want to outgrow SBS and step on up to individual servers. SBS maxes to 75 users, I believe SBS 2K8 will drop it to 50 users.

You'll want the "SBS Transition Pack"...which removes the constraints of SBS, user limit, AD limitation, etc....allowing you to now spread out to separate servers.

I have 1x client that is in the mid 60's as far as users, they're still on SBS, won't be growing soon..but I've spread their load to 5x servers.
*SBS, running the standard infrastructure and Exchange, RWW, Sharepoint
*A 2K3 server running all their file storage and print serving
*A 2K3 Terminal Server
*A 2K3 server running their Blackbaud and MAS90 accounting, as well as their NOD32 antivirus management, and wireless management
*A 2K3 server running their primary healthcare database.

Maxing your RAM out to 4 gigs would be my first step in your case. Most of my SBS clients are running 4 gigs in their server, small or large networks. It's so cheap right now, and gives such a performance boost. Your serving 60 users with nothing else running must already be getting hammered at just 2 gigs..not to mention running the other things like agents for timeclock software. I could see spreading the load of your setup to 3 or 4 servers easily. I'd put BES on a different server.

If you have some time before they grow to the limit....might consider waiting a bit to see more about Microsoft EBS. It's due out this Q4....and I'd want to wait at least 6 months til after its out before putting it into production at any clients, same goes with SBS2K8. There's bug fixes to be released, compatability issues in software, etc.
Click to expand...
Do you virtualize any of these servers? We have virtualized the main servers here, our DCs, Exch boxes, and our SQL boxes, these servers grow as needed. We have been able to get rid of about 7 physical boxes and replace them with 3 Dell 2950s.
 
^ not true about BES. BES with a few users isn't bad, but when you load up BES onto SBS for 100 users your gonna get fucked, espeically since you now have an extra SQL going
 
lone wolf said:
The BES doesn't actually use that much resources
Click to expand...

Depending on how many users, it most certainly can be. He didn't state many crackberry carries there were. Add to this...SBS already has MSDE pushed quite hard with native processes.
 
lone wolf said:
Do you virtualize any of these servers? We have virtualized the main servers here, our DCs, Exch boxes, and our SQL boxes, these servers grow as needed. We have been able to get rid of about 7 physical boxes and replace them with 3 Dell 2950s.
Click to expand...

No, my colleague got VMw certified and did a massive project, he tried to talk me into VM'ing this client of mine....there's just something about VMware that I'm not sold on yet for smaller setups. Add to that..a whole extra layer of troubleshooting if something goes wrong.
 
marley1 said:
^ not true about BES. BES with a few users isn't bad, but when you load up BES onto SBS for 100 users your gonna get fucked, espeically since you now have an extra SQL going
Click to expand...

SQL load ins't that hight on BES however what happens when you have to restart the BES server due to dead worker threads ? All systems come down insteal of just BES. Either virtualize it or serverate it.
 
I dunno if that was just a general response, but its actually general practice for small setups to load BES right onto the SBS server. I have done this with a handfull of clients and it works great, but these are about 20 user exchange mailboxes and like 5 crackberries.

Other clients that have an application server I would put it on that.

But no matter what the OP needs to get more servers, too many eggs in one basket.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
*SBS, running the standard infrastructure and Exchange, RWW, Sharepoint
*A 2K3 server running all their file storage and print serving
*A 2K3 Terminal Server
*A 2K3 server running their Blackbaud and MAS90 accounting, as well as their NOD32 antivirus management, and wireless management
*A 2K3 server running their primary healthcare database.
Click to expand...

So, can I keep my SBS box as-is, run Exchange/RWW on that?

And then move all my apps and files to standalone servers?

But the problem with that I see is the 75 limit cap still applies to the SBS box.
Does the standard Exchange 2007 (not with SBS) come with RWW, or is RWW a component of only SBS?
 
RWW is part of SBS.

What you need to do is do a swing migration to Server 03 or Server 08, get Exchange 03 or 07 and pretty much redo everything.

That is if you think you are going past the 75 user limit.

RWW would be replaced by Terminal Services or something similar.
 
marley1 said:
But no matter what the OP needs to get more servers, too many eggs in one basket.
Click to expand...

I agree... This was like this before I started here.
I'd personally never go with SBS in any company that has potential for lots of growth.


I'll have maybe 30-ish BBs. As contracts expire with other carriers- moving everyone to ATT and a BB.
Not all folks have BBs, or even company phones for that matter, so I'd always estimate about 50% of the office will have them (so in the future, maybe 50).

marley1 said:
RWW would be replaced by Terminal Services or something similar.
Click to expand...


Crap.

That's messy.

I've never messed with Terminal Services before.

I guess I need to get myself a road map and see what stages this all needs to be implemented in.
 
TechieSooner said:
So, can I keep my SBS box as-is, run Exchange/RWW on that?

And then move all my apps and files to standalone servers?

But the problem with that I see is the 75 limit cap still applies to the SBS box.
Does the standard Exchange 2007 (not with SBS) come with RWW, or is RWW a component of only SBS?
Click to expand...

*Yes
*Yes
*Right...but you need to answer "how soon" will that 75 user cap be..and plan your upgrade accordingly. Are they going beyond 75 users this week? Next month? Or next year?
*RWW is only a component of SBS. I sure wish they had a stand alone product which would work with other servers..it's such as GREAT feature.
 
marley1 said:
YeOlde - i thought you said you had a busy day today =p
Click to expand...

Dual monitors baby! :D Some Eset licensing orders 'n quotes, some other ordering for a trip on Thursday, some remote desktop work to servers, etc. Air Conditioning is crankin in the office..me no wants to leave! :D
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
*Right...but you need to answer "how soon" will that 75 user cap be..and plan your upgrade accordingly. Are they going beyond 75 users this week? Next month? Or next year?
*RWW is only a component of SBS. I sure wish they had a stand alone product which would work with other servers..it's such as GREAT feature.
Click to expand...

Probably next year. But with all the changes it is looking like I will have to make, I'd rather get this in place and let it mature over time. That, and is easier on the budget to span it out gradually.


How exactly does TS work? Do the users hit a webpage, much like RWW?
They can use OWA for email, it's just I have a couple of users that use the Remote Desktop portion of RWW...
 
TechieSooner said:
Probably next year. But with all the changes it is looking like I will have to make, I'd rather get this in place and let it mature over time. That, and is easier on the budget to span it out gradually.


How exactly does TS work? Do the users hit a webpage, much like RWW?
They can use OWA for email, it's just I have a couple of users that use the Remote Desktop portion of RWW...
Click to expand...

Well in Server 08 you have a web based portion of TS just like RWW.

But usually you have a RDP icon on hte desktop and it connects. Server08 has the webbased.
 
marley1 said:
Well in Server 08 you have a web based portion of TS just like RWW.

But usually you have a RDP icon on hte desktop and it connects. Server08 has the webbased.
Click to expand...

That's be simple enough.

I'm thinking of eventually doing away with SBS 2003 and going this route:

Exchange/BES, Terminal Services Server 2008
Domain/Files/Priting/AV Management Server 2008
Application Server 2008

It's just that Application Server may need to stay on the same server as the domain/file server would be on, not sure what the budget will be like.
 
Assuming those THREE servers, how does licensing work?
I need 3 licenses for Server 2008, one for Exchange, and then 75 CALs (the CALs are shared, correct)?
2 of the servers configured as secondary DCs?

EDIT- Also, what are your suggestions backing up 3 servers like this? My thought is a SAN or something, but how about the disaster-proofing of that? Right now I have luxury of putting my tapes/hard drives in a safe each morning. Can't really do that with a SAN, how would you do that?
 
Depends what budget is. If you have a big budget a tape library and san may be something to consider(bit over my head as i mostly focus on small biz).

i would say you would want 3 servers, DC, Exchange, Application. Probably Exchange/Bes on one server, and then the rest on the application server, or maybe get a 4th server as wel.

Backup should be something with tapes and or offsite backup.

As far as licensing, i always get confused, your gonna want 75 user cals, and then something for the server. Whenever i have question i just call MS and ask they are fast with that.
 
Is it possible to just "stop using" Exchange on the SBS box, and setup an additional Exchange box standalone?
 
TechieSooner said:
Is it possible to just "stop using" Exchange on the SBS box, and setup an additional Exchange box standalone?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't try that. I doubt it would work, due to the integration within SBS. In addition to being against licensing, if you ever had to call Microsoft to get support for something.....unsupported setup.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
I wouldn't try that. I doubt it would work, due to the integration within SBS. In addition to being against licensing, if you ever had to call Microsoft to get support for something.....unsupported setup.
Click to expand...

That's what I was afraid of.

How would you migrate this? What steps?

Obviously, NOW, I could move all my apps to their own standalone server.

However, for the next two servers, I'd have to do it corrdinated. Turn one into the DC/File Sharing and the other into Exchange.

I just wish it was possible to transition that better (more slowly)... It may have to wait for holidays or something so a 3 day weekend is possible.
 
look into swing migration.

i would say it may be easier to start from scratch but i usually deal under that limit.

you would want to do swing migration so you can keep the computers joined to domain. read up on it its not that bad.
 
marley1 said:
look into swing migration.

i would say it may be easier to start from scratch but i usually deal under that limit.

you would want to do swing migration so you can keep the computers joined to domain. read up on it its not that bad.
Click to expand...

Swing would be easier. But either way, I'm looking at a buttload of work to break SBS into the components it needs to be in. So, you may be right in that scratch is easier.
Anyone else agree????
Also as added advantage of doing clean install, which means I know things are done right (This SBS install had something wrong with it... Like missing image directories).

I wouldn't mind renaming the domain, server names, stuff like that (Actually needs to be done- someone named them really asinine).
Again- just lots of work.

But, assuming a revamp of everything, what steps would I need to go in? The two major ones I can think of:
1) Move apps to an Application server.
2) Move Exchange to standalone server, and all SBS duties to a DC.

What will REALLY suck is #2- tons of stuff to do all at once.

How would you handle this situation? Get #1 going on the current domain, as a secondary domain controller? Then, when #2 is ready to happen, make #2 happen from scratch, and then can I mirror all the DC information from #1 to #2?
My main question is how all the data would get changed. It'd be looking for the old domain, correct?
 
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