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Motherboard Limiting Overclocking Capibilities?

erorr404

Gawd
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
646
my CPU and RAM dont overclock for shit.

my mobo is a SiS 648 chipset MSI 648 Max-L.


THE PROCESSOR (Revision B0, Stepping 4, Pack Date 7/31/02)

my P4 2.26B (2.26 GHz 533 MHz FSB) does not overclock very well at all.
at 137-138 MHz (default FSB is 133 MHz), its not 3DMark stable (crashes before the first test loads up).
if i try raising the voltage, it makes no difference whatsoever.
another strange thing is that none of the CPU stress programs ever show any errors. i ran Prime95 for over 24 hours at overclocks above 140 MHz and got no errors at all. S&M also always passes all tests no matter the frequency. however, despite what these programs say, the system is not stable at all, even when the CPU is overclocked only a little bit. i once pasted a screenshot into paint after a long Prime test was successfully completed, and the computer froze after i pressed the paste buttons.



THE RAM (link)

my 512MB stick of Kingston ValueRAM PC2700 2.5-3-3-6 does not overclock AT ALL.
if i raise the freq to 168 MHz instead of the stock 167 MHz, i quickly get errors in memtest86. however it runs memtest86 perfectly at stock settings.
if i lower the timing to CAS 3 at 168 MHz, i get mmemtest86 errors as well. even if i raise it to CAS 3 at the default 167 MHz, it still gives me errors.
so basically if i overclock the RAM in any way and by any amount, it ends up being unstable - even if i loosen the timings. and when i loosen timings at stock freq, i still get errors. if i raise the voltage at all, i get errors. even with stock freq if i raise the voltange i get errors. i can underclock the frequency to below 167 MHz and it works fine however.
is it just an incredibly, unbelievably, shitty stick of RAM? or is my motherboard the cause?



is it possible that a motherboard can limit overclocking in this way? can it somehow be a bottleneck for it, and cause system instability when compenents are overclocked?
or is my hardware really that shitty?
 
erorr404 said:

That's your problem right there, sorry. SiS chipsets for the most part are value chipsets and are not strong in the overclocking department. I got the 655FX chipset on my P4S800-D mobo by Asus, and it overclocked my 533mhz FSB 2.53 to 3005 Mhz pretty well, but it tended to crap out at anything higher than that, and I consider myself lucky to have gotten that far. I want to overclock this 3.2 E that I have now, but I may not be able to without some RAM adjustment. I wish I could drop the multi.

Afraid you're not going to get too much out of that SiS chipset. An Nforce chipset or an Intel chipset might do you better. An Nforce board or a DFI board will usually offer very good overclocking, especially with the DFI and all the voltage alteration you can do with those.

Also, your AGP/PCI clocks may not be locked, and that would definitely explain why you're locking up in 3dmark, because that's a program that's heavily dependent on your AGP card as well as your CPU. Although you can run the CPU tests and the CPU holds up, once you add the 3dmark graphics in, it locks. Seems like your board has no lock @ 66mhz for the AGP bus, and your ram is nothing to look at twice, either. It's value RAM, which tends to run at its rated speed and not at all more.
 
[Tripod]MajorPayne said:
That's your problem right there, sorry. SiS chipsets for the most part are value chipsets and are not strong in the overclocking department. I got the 655FX chipset on my P4S800-D mobo by Asus, and it overclocked my 533mhz FSB 2.53 to 3005 Mhz pretty well, but it tended to crap out at anything higher than that, and I consider myself lucky to have gotten that far. I want to overclock this 3.2 E that I have now, but I may not be able to without some RAM adjustment. I wish I could drop the multi.

Afraid you're not going to get too much out of that SiS chipset. An Nforce chipset or an Intel chipset might do you better. An Nforce board or a DFI board will usually offer very good overclocking, especially with the DFI and all the voltage alteration you can do with those.

Also, your AGP/PCI clocks may not be locked, and that would definitely explain why you're locking up in 3dmark, because that's a program that's heavily dependent on your AGP card as well as your CPU. Although you can run the CPU tests and the CPU holds up, once you add the 3dmark graphics in, it locks. Seems like your board has no lock @ 66mhz for the AGP bus, and your ram is nothing to look at twice, either. It's value RAM, which tends to run at its rated speed and not at all more.
dont be sorry, i was hoping that thats the case. if its the motherboard that is limiting the overclocks, i can just buy a cheap, sub $100 i865 chipset mobo. im not buying a new CPU.
i am skeptical that this is the case though. i think its possible that i got a really crappy CPU that will only do 100 MHz overclock, but the RAM doesnt OC at all? not one MHz? not even if i loosen timings? is this possible?
but then again, there is some evidence showing that the CPU is not the cause of the instability when i overclock. i get no errors in stress test programs, even when the sytem is clearly unstable. and my AGP/PCI clocks ARE locked
 
well, before i buy anthing, ill make sure that its the mobo thats limiting overclocks. im hoping to plug my CPU into my dads IC7-G Max 2 to see if i can get higher clocks. but thanks for the suggestion.
 
My bet is the PCI/AGP frequency is not locked and so when you bump up the FSB the AGP frequency rises and the video card cannot deal with it. I know that's the problem with overclocking on my Asus A7V600, I can only get a 10% overclock before the video card starts crashing during 3DMark03.
 
im pretty sure that its not.. it remains locked. i even looked up reviews of this board online just to make sure, and they mention that its locked as well.

is it possible that a motherboard can limit CPU and RAM overclocks?
 
erorr404 said:
im pretty sure that its not.. it remains locked. i even looked up reviews of this board online just to make sure, and they mention that its locked as well.

is it possible that a motherboard can limit CPU and RAM overclocks?

I would say only because of the amount of voltage the MB can give on the VCore and VDimm and what kinds of Bios options are available for the OCer.
 
well, the thing about that is that it can get as high on stock voltage as it can at 1.6 V (the motherboards maximum). ill do some tests though to see if voltage helps or not.
 
The other thing I can think of trying is to lower the speed of your RAM to check if its the limitying component of your system. Increase the FSB-RAM ratio and then try and overclock. I wouldn't be surprised if you that was what was holding you back.
 
darn_it said:
The other thing I can think of trying is to lower the speed of your RAM to check if its the limitying component of your system. Increase the FSB-RAM ratio and then try and overclock. I wouldn't be surprised if you that was what was holding you back.
no, its not the RAM. when i test the CPU i always reduce RAM speed (i set div to 1:1 so it goes down from 167 MHz to ~140 MHz or whatever my CPU clock is). the RAM is always underclocked when im overclocking my CPU.

kirbyrj said:
I would say only because of the amount of voltage the MB can give on the VCore and VDimm and what kinds of Bios options are available for the OCer.
well, i just did several tests and the voltage seems to make no difference whatsoever.
i started out by setting voltage to the maximum that the motherboard can allow (1.6 V), and seeing what the max stable clock can be. it turned out to be 136 MHz (a whopping 3 MHz increase over stock :eek: ). then, i lowered the voltage to stock (somewhere around 1.4 V), and tested the system at 136 MHz. again, it was stable.
that shows that increasing the voltage doesnt make any difference on this system, so thats not whats holding me back.
 
yeah the AI7 is an AWESOME board...

i had it in my P4 system...overclocks like MAD
 
Well it doesn't seem like theres any reason that the motherboard would be holding you back. I really don't know, it would be interesting to throw that CPU on someone elses motherboard and see how well it overclocks.
 
I would never buy a SIS mobo.

Value. Yuck.

Its like buying a celeron... never ever.

But at least you know your problem and can fix it and learn from your mistakes.
 
USMC2Hard4U said:
I would never buy a SIS mobo.

Value. Yuck.

Its like buying a celeron... never ever.

But at least you know your problem and can fix it and learn from your mistakes.
apparantly, from what everyones saying, the problem isnt the motherboard. but i agree it was stupid to buy it. i researched everything but the motherboard when building this computer :rolleyes:.
 
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