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Monster DVI makes a difference

C

chronic19

n00b
Joined
Aug 13, 2004
Messages
17
So someone on this forum said the 172x doesn't come with a DVI cable, so I bought one (Monster DVI) off ebay for $30. Well, the monitor did come with a cable, at first I thought it was complete waste of money, people cite the fact that DVI is all digital, etc....

Regardless, I definitley notice a difference, it's not great but it is there. The contrast is better, text is sharper, and the colors are more vibrant.
 
Placebo effect, unless there is something wrong with the stock cable.
 
Why dont you post some pics of regular DVI and monster DVI cables.... Lets see if there is a difference, I am interested....
 
I would only imagine it making a difference if you plug DVI into a DVI TV(TV with a DVI input)...
 
darktiger said:
Why dont you post some pics of regular DVI and monster DVI cables.... Lets see if there is a difference, I am interested....
Click to expand...

Is it that your just to lazy to go look up the information or just that you believe you know more then the digital engineers who design this stuff?

I clearly posted a good link for you to look at and how to search out the information.

Post a picture? Hypothetically if my monitor has a better picture then yours and I post a shot of that, how would you be able to tell anything? Come on, your smarter then that.

I’m not here to sell you cables. All I was trying to do was share information.

If you don’t see the value in better cables fine, but to state your opinion as “Fact” flys in the face of reason.

What is fact is that a ton of money is spent figuring out the proper trace thickness and width on good video cards with DVI output. More money is spent on using exactly the right kind and amount of solder on the joints. Digital signals pass through different wire differently, any good engineering site will tell you that and if you understand the math they will prove it to you.

If of course you have an open mind. That seems to be the hard part…..
 
darktiger said:
I would only imagine it making a difference if you plug DVI into a DVI TV(TV with a DVI input)...
Click to expand...

If an HDTV with less then half the resolution of a computer monitor will show up the difference (as you can only imagine) why would it make less difference on a higher resolution screen?

Not logical
 
Look, better cables are better cables and yes they work.

No, you don't necesarily need to pay Monster Cable prices to get nice cables. www.avsforums.com is full of gurus and they'll tell you the same thing. There are better cables out there for the money, but any quality cable is going to make SOME difference. It just is, unless your factory cable is already really good.
 
would like monster cable make a difference for a sony hs94p over the stock dvi cable?
 
Dallows said:
would like monster cable make a difference for a sony hs94p over the stock dvi cable?
Click to expand...

I would suggest getting one. Do this, try it for a few days, not 5 min. Once you install it take the time to calibrate your monitor as well. After two or three days put the stock one back on, if you don’t see a difference return it.

It’s like anything else, try it out
 
At 2 meters, the length of a typical display cable, you should not see any difference between a monster cable and a regular generic DVI cable, unless the cable is exceptionally shoddy.

DVI signals do not degrade in the same way an analog VGA signal does. You will not get a slightly blurrier image, or reduced color vibrancy. Those are characteristics of an analog signal. Instead you get sample fall out, ie you are losing pixel information. This will show up as pixels flickering to white. If its bad you'll see a snow, or sparkle effect. DVI has no error correction and is pretty intolerant to signal degredation. So if your not seeing that kind of effect with a normal cable, then your its not losing information and its giving you the best image you can get.

This is the main advantage of digital signals. The signal can degrade slightly, but as long as its within certain thresholds you can reproduce the orignal signal exactly.
 
I bought a Monster cable for my NEC 1860NX. It did make a difference.
 
pdren said:
At 2 meters, the length of a typical display cable, you should not see any difference between a monster cable and a regular generic DVI cable, unless the cable is exceptionally shoddy.

DVI signals do not degrade in the same way an analog VGA signal does. You will not get a slightly blurrier image, or reduced color vibrancy. Those are characteristics of an analog signal. Instead you get sample fall out, ie you are losing pixel information. This will show up as pixels flickering to white. If its bad you'll see a snow, or sparkle effect. DVI has no error correction and is pretty intolerant to signal degredation. So if your not seeing that kind of effect with a normal cable, then your its not losing information and its giving you the best image you can get.

This is the main advantage of digital signals. The signal can degrade slightly, but as long as its within certain thresholds you can reproduce the orignal signal exactly.
Click to expand...

I agree.....
 
Post a picture? Hypothetically if my monitor has a better picture then yours and I post a shot of that, how would you be able to tell anything? Come on, your smarter then that.
Click to expand...

Yes but we would still be able to see the difference between the pictures (ie fuzziness, sharpness, color reprodution, etc)
 
So this is a 24+1 cable. To make use of this advantage (by the way, 18+1 cables are becomming rare) over a 18+1 cable you need a DualLink DVI videocard and a DualLink DVI TFT.
Examples are some QuadroFX cards and the 30" Apple TFT.

Denis
 
darktiger said:
Yes but we would still be able to see the difference between the pictures (ie fuzziness, sharpness, color reprodution, etc)
Click to expand...
No, you wouldn't.
 
Yes you would, unless there is no difference to begin with.
 
pdren said:
At 2 meters, the length of a typical display cable, you should not see any difference between a monster cable and a regular generic DVI cable, unless the cable is exceptionally shoddy.

DVI signals do not degrade in the same way an analog VGA signal does. You will not get a slightly blurrier image, or reduced color vibrancy. Those are characteristics of an analog signal. Instead you get sample fall out, ie you are losing pixel information. This will show up as pixels flickering to white. If its bad you'll see a snow, or sparkle effect. DVI has no error correction and is pretty intolerant to signal degredation. So if your not seeing that kind of effect with a normal cable, then your its not losing information and its giving you the best image you can get.

This is the main advantage of digital signals. The signal can degrade slightly, but as long as its within certain thresholds you can reproduce the orignal signal exactly.
Click to expand...

This is correct. Unless you have a faulty cable with a digital signal, the information either gets there, or it doesn't. In the case of digital displays, the data is fed to the display at typically 60hz, where it displays all of that information in each refresh of the screen. There is no time delay, which in digital display would cause perceivable errors (missing pixels, erroneous pixels etc). This is especially true in optical cabling, where no EMI/RF shielding is employed and the signal cannot degrade in any way short of damage. The bits of data all travel at the speed of light, which is a constant much of the universe is dependant upon ;).

On a cable serving analog connections, there is certainly a difference to be made with high quality cabling and I will be the first to support that concept. An analog signal needs the purest, most conductive, well-shielded, and shortest connection it can get.

Expensive digtal cables, while perhaps providing peace of mind for longevity/durability purposes, are mostly snake oil.

This is of course only specifically relevant to DVI-D cables, as DVI-I cables carry an analog signal as well, though I'm not sure which displays make use of this.
 
Happy Hopping said:
I can't believe a brand name like Monster only makes Single Link cable. Totally useless for people who needs dual link DVI.

On that note, who's the best out there who makes dual link DVI?
Click to expand...

because if you read their description, it was meant as an HDTV cable, not a PC cable. HDTVs are, to my knowledge, all single link.

Either way, just get a quality shielded DVI cable, and your set. Only things that matter on a digital copper cable are impedance and shilding...everything else is fluff.

the dielectric used, no matter what it is will not give you any electrical gain since the dielectric will have to be thickened out or thinned out to re-balance any impedance mismatches...basically just giving you a differing thickness cable is all it does.

Regular annealed copper and OFC copper have very little difference, however OFC tends to be a bit more corrosion resistant, and for that reason is worth the small price shift.

Silver cable is too pricey for the 8% gain in conductivity...again impedance matching which is required for digital signals will force the cable maker to work around it...again being no better than copper.

Basically, the specs for digital signals over copper is tought enough that all that matters are if the impedance matches, and if the shielding is enough for the environment its being used in.

In this case, maybe the generic cable he had was unshielded, or the shield was improperly attatched.
 
the way I see it, if the LCD is $3300., the video card is $1300, the cable better be one of the best that money can buy, worth a few hundred dolllars. And a brand name w/ true R&D. Because in the field of computer, video/audio electronics, the sys. is as good as the weakest link.
 
True, but also why pay more than you need to? If it gives you peace of mind, I guess the more power to you...but if a $30 cable could do just as good of a job, then at least to me, it would be more prudent to use that saved cash on upgrading something else. Oh,and BTW monster hasnt done any real R&D in ages, at least nothing htat can be proven to be applicable to audio/video. Snake oil in A/V cable products has been rampant for decades.

In audiophile boards this gets argued to death, but to an obscene level. I'm just poiting out the science behind it. It is zeros and ones, and there is no distortion of the signal outside of dropped packets, and that can be solved using a properly shielded cable.

anyways, if you need to buy something that you know will work, these guys have good stuff without charging up the wazoo, and stand behind them. http://www.avcables.com/
 
Happy Hopping said:
the way I see it, if the LCD is $3300., the video card is $1300, the cable better be one of the best that money can buy, worth a few hundred dolllars. And a brand name w/ true R&D. Because in the field of computer, video/audio electronics, the sys. is as good as the weakest link.
Click to expand...

Exactly, and there is way too much evidence that can be easily researched to uphold your conclusion.

To further follow your thoughts, I’ll never understand why anyone would spend hundreds and or thousands of dollars on any kind of monitor and not spend at least $69.95 on a copy of “Display Mate” so they can properly calibrate the thing.

It’s like someone buying a new Ferrari, and then going to the “One Price” tire store for tires. Then you read about them in some forum bitching about how badly the car handles.

Save a few bucks sure, I’m all for it. But not at the expense of not being able to enjoy what I just spent good money for to start with.
 
I use the monster cable for which is was designed. DVI output from my Samsung DVD-HD931 to the DVI input on my Mitsubishi 48. I dont believe their cables are meant for computer application. I could be wrong.
 
In the old days, when people talks about good cables, AMP and Belkin is good enough for me. But that's when the equipment is only $1000 to $2000.

I plan on buying the upcoming HP ver. of the 30" LCD, like the Apple ver., but should come with Composite and compoent and S video, on that note, on that note, in conjunction w/ FX3400, I'll have to continue to do some research on very good cables that is sufficient to run the above hardware.

Like the 23", HP didn't even give you a cable that is DVI to DVI (there was one cable missing), so one way or the other, you have to shop for a great cable.
 
jacuzz1 said:
I use the monster cable for which is was designed. DVI output from my Samsung DVD-HD931 to the DVI input on my Mitsubishi 48. I dont believe their cables are meant for computer application. I could be wrong.
Click to expand...

Actually Monster has a selection of various computer grade cables, but not one specifically for DVI computer application. Since the frequency and bandwidth etc needs of a high end DVD monitor fall within the needs of an HDTV their DVI cable is appropriate.

Monster Cable is in no way the only company making higher quality cables; there are many manufactures out there with good products. Monster just happens to be everywhere and thus they are more in the public limelight.

Audio Quest has a nice site with a really good understandable explanation of cable theory.

www.audioquest.com
 
BillR said:
Actually Monster has a selection of various computer grade cables, but not one specifically for DVI computer application. Since the frequency and bandwidth etc needs of a high end DVD monitor fall within the needs of an HDTV their DVI cable is appropriate.

Monster Cable is in no way the only company making higher quality cables; there are many manufactures out there with good products. Monster just happens to be everywhere and thus they are more in the public limelight.

Audio Quest has a nice site with a really good understandable explanation of cable theory.

www.audioquest.com
Click to expand...


too bad audio quest doesn't make dual link DVI cable. And I don't know if I can trust the R&D of monster and ask them to make a dual link DVI for me, after all, they are not computer co.
 
Does anyone here realize that copper cable is just that: copper cable? Monster/Kimber, etc. are all just marketing to high-browed idiots who have way too much money. BTW, Monster, Phoenix Gold, SoundString, Acoustic Research, and Dayton Audio used to all be made in the same factory (can't guarantee it as of today). Just pick out the cable which looks the best to you. I personally like thick jacketing with heavy strain-relief, and beefy jacks.
 
Check out this site for nice DVI cables. I have most of my HT wired with these cables. Excellent cables for the price, better than Monster IMHO. I think I'm gonna order a DVI from here to go with the Sony SDM-P234/B I ordered yesterday :)
 
There is plenty of snake oil with analog as well.

Some examples are:
skin effect (it exists, but is completely irrelevant at audio frequencies...it's akin to saying having a cupholder makes a difference in how the windshiled wipers in a car works)
Zobel Networks (I'm sorry but any cable that needs a compensation network on it to me has a critical design flaw, leave them in speakers where they belong)
Thinner gague silver wire being superior to larger gauge copper wire (hate to tell you, but basic electronic theory says the smaller gauge of the silver wire offsets the gain from the superior conductiveness of silver, leaving you WORSE off)
Dielectrics being superior than others (it may be true, but the cable must have a certain impedance, and dielectrics alter the overall impedance ofa cable, so usually the teflon dielectric cable has the SAME impedance as a PET dielectric cable of similar design, only difference being how thick the dielectric is [teflon being thinner and more flexible, that's it])
Cable break-in : Sorry, but this is not a mechanical device...and the cable does not heat up enough (if at all) to alter much of anything with the cable jacket or any kind of "skin effect".

Beware of companies that talk excessively about things like this, unless you want to be able to say you spend XX on cables, just get something that is based on proven technologies and doesnt try to talk about a cable as "warm", "smooth" , or "revealing". Truth is, once you get a well shielded and properly designed cable (analog RCA pairs can be done at $10 for the first foot, and $1.50 for each additional if you make it yourself), that any money extra spent on cable would give you far less then if it was spend elsewhere, like the true weaknesses of all systems, speakers and room acoustics. Now those are worth the big bucks.

edit: sorry about making it relate to audio, but the same concepts apply. Better gains per buck out of better video transmission/switching/viewing gear than what is spent on exotic cabling.

...and no, i dont make my own clothes from old potato sacks... :rolleyes:
inbedwithhomer said:
This is correct. Unless you have a faulty cable with a digital signal, the information either gets there, or it doesn't. In the case of digital displays, the data is fed to the display at typically 60hz, where it displays all of that information in each refresh of the screen. There is no time delay, which in digital display would cause perceivable errors (missing pixels, erroneous pixels etc). This is especially true in optical cabling, where no EMI/RF shielding is employed and the signal cannot degrade in any way short of damage. The bits of data all travel at the speed of light, which is a constant much of the universe is dependant upon ;).

On a cable serving analog connections, there is certainly a difference to be made with high quality cabling and I will be the first to support that concept. An analog signal needs the purest, most conductive, well-shielded, and shortest connection it can get.

Expensive digtal cables, while perhaps providing peace of mind for longevity/durability purposes, are mostly snake oil.

This is of course only specifically relevant to DVI-D cables, as DVI-I cables carry an analog signal as well, though I'm not sure which displays make use of this.
Click to expand...
 
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