Mom Defends Her Fortnite Cheating Offspring in Court

[thesmokingman]

You aren't 14. You're not incorrect, but you have a different frame of mind as a kid. I'm also not saying that that frame of mind shouldn't be changed. Because it should. However, I believe that how they're going about it is misguided.

Like I said, its overly harsh for Epic to be hunting people down for thousands of dollars simply for the crime of having their 14 year old being caught cheating in a game. Im pretty sure the vast majority of people arent likely to look favorably on such a scenario occurring. All Epic needs to do is teach the kid a lesson, conduct a lawsuit, but seek proportional damages. The lawsuit will indeed cost more money than the damages, but I cant see a scenario where Epic can "shake down" people and pay for lawyer costs as a viable solution. No, in seeking a lawsuit, Epic has decided to send a message, and to accept the costs of the message.

You two seem to have a disconnect going on here. The woman when she defended her son instead apologizing profusely, upheld her son's counterclaim against Epic. Not sure you guys are getting it. The kid and mother are not sorry and are fighting it. They deserve it and you never know what the result of a trial will bring. And these douchebags seem to want to bring it on. They are not the folk that we take pity on lol, you'd think that much was clear.

 

[Advil]

It depends on how much damage and carnage is being inflicted on their ability to run the game. Honestly, it doesn't seem likely they'd take the step of going to court unless they already did a cost benefit analysis and decided that paying money to engage the legal process was less expensive than the long term damage this kid was causing and going to CONTINUE causing. He was making it public and flagrant. If you don't draw a line and make an example, you'll get more and more of him.

Don't cheat. And if you do cheat, don't be an idiot and keep it just as yourself vs the game. Don't make an in-your-face public campaign out of trying to destroy a multimillion dollar game. What do you think is going to happen?

 

[Deleted member 83233]

You two seem to have a disconnect going on here. The woman when she defended her son instead apologizing profusely, upheld her son's counterclaim against Epic. Not sure you guys are getting it. The kid and mother are not sorry and are fighting it. They deserve it and you never know what the result of a trial will bring. And these douchebags seem to want to bring it on. They are not the folk that we take pity on lol, you'd think that much was clear.

I see that part of it. I can also see why she'd take a more offensive-defense, and immediate start attacking Epic and their policies. If the lawsuit was the first she had heard of this, and she is immediately going up against Epic's legal team, I could see this seeming to be the way to go.

That doesn't make it right, but I can see why she'd do it. If someone immediately hits you with something this heavy handed over a kid's conduct in a game, I can see going in guns blazing. (figuratively of course)

Maybe being apologetic would be fine if say, you were dealing with Tim Sweeney or something. But if you're immediately up against $150K copyright infringement claims, a team of lawyers thirsty for blood (yes I'm being a little dramatic there... ) you might have a different mindset than if you as a parent receive a notice or two first.

Who knows, maybe she did. Maybe this is all a total spin. Maybe the kid is a piece of human filth, lying through his teeth and this is just the tip of his criminal iceberg.

I tend to doubt it, but...

Honestly, I think he's probably just a 14 year old gamer nerd, who thought he was being badass and cool by being part of the "underground" and it just got out of control. Stupid? Yes. Pathetic? A bit. Understandable from a certain point of view? Maybe. Should his efforts be diverted to something constructive? That's where I'd start before nailing him to the wall.

Since we don't know every last detail of the full situation, I tend to lean toward much lower scales of punishment. These two could be douchey trash out for whatever they can get, or it could be mama-bear doing her best to fight off some nasty legal advisers. I'm just not too hasty to judge people, especially over stupid (yes in my own opinion) shit.

 

[Deleted member 83233]

It depends on how much damage and carnage is being inflicted on their ability to run the game. Honestly, it doesn't seem likely they'd take the step of going to court unless they already did a cost benefit analysis and decided that paying money to engage the legal process was less expensive than the long term damage this kid was causing and going to CONTINUE causing. He was making it public and flagrant. If you don't draw a line and make an example, you'll get more and more of him.

Don't cheat. And if you do cheat, don't be an idiot and keep it just as yourself vs the game. Don't make an in-your-face public campaign out of trying to destroy a multimillion dollar game. What do you think is going to happen?

Honestly, I'm totally good with them making an example to a degree. I also agree that what the kid was doing was stupid. He's still a kid though, and I think this could have been handled a hell of a lot better by all parties.

 

[lcpiper]

Something strange from the articles and others linked to.

The Mom filed a letter and in it, she argues that because Delaware's House Bill 64, signed by the Governor, makes it illegal to release a minor's personal information "by any agency", and not only Epic, but the media has done so, that they violated his rights and can't sue him.

Being thorough, I looked up Delaware's HB 64;

AN ACT TO AMEND TITLE 29 OF THE DELAWARE CODE RELATING TO FAMILY LEAVE.
Original Synopsis:
Mothers who give birth to monoamniotic twins are often hospitalized as early as 26 weeks into the pregnancy due to the risk of complications of having twins share a single amniotic sack. Mothers who give birth to multiples of 3 or more often have the same issue of requiring extensive medical pre-natal care. As a result, the benefits provided under the federal Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA) are often exhausted by the time the mother and children are discharged from the hospital. This bill provides that mothers who are full time state employees may have up to six weeks of unpaid leave following the newborn(s) discharge from the hospital even if their FMLA benefits have been exhausted.

It doesn't seem to say anything at all like what she says it does in here letter.

Perhaps she meant this one;

TITLE 6
Commerce and Trade
SUBTITLE II
Other Laws Relating to Commerce and Trade
CHAPTER 12C. ONLINE AND PERSONAL PRIVACY PROTECTION

 

[SighTurtle]

You two seem to have a disconnect going on here. The woman when she defended her son instead apologizing profusely, upheld her son's counterclaim against Epic. Not sure you guys are getting it. The kid and mother are not sorry and are fighting it. They deserve it and you never know what the result of a trial will bring. And these douchebags seem to want to bring it on. They are not the folk that we take pity on lol, you'd think that much was clear.

Well, you know how it works, admit fault and you open up to all kinds of potential damages. If Epic was suing me for up to 150k in damages, I would do the same, and not admit fault. $150,000 isn't something to respond to with statements like, "I'm sorry, my son will be punished", its gonna be "My son didn't do anything wrong" and "Why are you attacking a 14 yr old?"

Its very confusing, and with two sides to it, best not to be quick with judgement, the facts of the matter aren't close to being clear yet. We still don't know how involved this kid was in the creation and distribution of these hacks, and Epic has not responded yet to the mother.

 

[lcpiper]

I can partially agree with you here, except this sort of thing can snowball pretty quickly. Even if you're a good parent. Luckily, my kids aren't stupid, are generally well behaved, and listen pretty well to my wife and I. They have still done some pretty stupid things though, as MOST kids have at one point or another. Luckily the things that mine have done resulted in their own mild embarrassment, us taking away certain privileges, etc. You can be the best parent out there, and young age, inexperience, and conditions might still cause your kid to do something that you wish they hadn't. When our kids have gotten a bit out of line, we've taken action. However, there are a lot of ways there could be a delay in what occurred and you as a parent being able to take action. I see a few people in this thread that think they're perfect, shining examples of parenting, and maybe they're pretty fucking good, and maybe up to now their kids are amazing, sweet, little angels. It doesn't take a lot for a mistake to happen though, even with the best kids with the best parents. My parents were fucking incredible, inspiring, and very fair and just. That didn't stop me from having a few periods of my life being chaotic, decadent, and shall we say quasi-legal at times. Sometimes shit happens. Sometimes there's a punishment that goes along with that. All I'm saying is it should fit the shit that happened. Good people can do things that they shouldn't. People judging others harshly probably have their own vices as well.

I would raise another point though, a civil suite isn't so much about punishment although the damages can contain a punitive element intended to deter others. But they are more about restitution due to damages, "you cost me this, I want it back, and you owe it to me because of your actions". It's easy to get fixated on punishments fitting crimes etc but this isn't necessarily about that, it's about redressing damages lost by the plaintiff.

Are we going to take it easy on the minor child and tell this company to suck it up?

I'm just saying there is a different angle to keep in mind.

 

[lcpiper]

Very true, and if that price tag scares the shit out of the kid, and then he and his mom get stuck with a small fraction, that will probably go a longer way toward correction of the action that if they are actually awarded the full $150K. I imagine if they were awarded $5K that would have the desired effect. Still a little harsh in my opinion, but it's something they could probably recover from.

Even better, have the kid promote charitable causes with some youtube channels. He's obviously got some skills that can be channeled for community service. Make him promote the very game he's been promoting cheats for. Let him work his punishment off.

Perhaps but it's my understanding that in a civil court case, restitution is only in the form of money. Criminal cases can have a much broader list of potential responses as "punishment".

EDIT: Had to change civil to criminal in the second sentence, got civil on the brain I guess.

 

[bsbllclown]

Well, you know how it works, admit fault and you open up to all kinds of potential damages. If Epic was suing me for up to 150k in damages, I would do the same, and not admit fault. $150,000 isn't something to respond to with statements like, "I'm sorry, my son will be punished", its gonna be "My son didn't do anything wrong" and "Why are you attacking a 14 yr old?"

Its very confusing, and with two sides to it, best not to be quick with judgement, the facts of the matter aren't close to being clear yet. We still don't know how involved this kid was in the creation and distribution of these hacks, and Epic has not responded yet to the mother.

What facts are you confused about? The ones on video showing him doing everything hes alleged to have done.....lol. There no ambiguity here..

 

[ir0nw0lf]

I see a lot of people mentioning stuff that might be mentioned in the Leonard French video I linked on page 1, highly advise you folks to go watch it. There is a mention as well from him about no limit to some form of potential damages in her state that has limits in other states, some kind of liability on her as a parent. Some parental responsibility laws that in many states is capped at $5,000 but no such cap in her state of Delaware.

 

[Deleted member 83233]

I would raise another point though, a civil suite isn't so much about punishment although the damages can contain a punitive element intended to deter others. But they are more about restitution do to damages, "you cost me this, I want it back, and you owe it to me because of your actions". It's easy to get fixated on punishments fitting crimes etc but this isn't necessarily about that, it's about redressing damages lost by the plaintiff.

Are we going to take it easy on the minor child and tell this company to suck it up?

I'm just saying there is a different angle to keep in mind.

Agreed. And, yes, if they can prove that they lost X amount of dollars directly due to this kid, then sure. Sue for that exact amount. $150K seems a bit too big and round for what they'd have actually lost out on because of him. Opinion and guess-work by me of course. That sounds a lot like automatically sue for the max for that particular statute, and see what we get. Kind of shotgun...

If he was doing this for a game that I created... Well, I have mixed feelings. Sure, I'd want him to stop. Sure I'd be inclined to do something beyond asking him a couple of times if he didn't. If it got bad enough, and I though it was actually impacting my game, then I would seek legal advice. I don't begrudge Epic for doing SOMETHING ALONG THESE LINES. Just not pushing for max damages and trying to run the kid into the ground for it. Personally I'd ask a judge to issue a court order that he can't access my game, its servers, or make any kinds of posts or videos about it. Not sure if that's even something they could do, but I'd attack the actual problem first, and maybe cover my legal costs.

 

[rudy]

Why wouldn't they just IP ban him and save themselves the headache.

because they are doing this for way more than money, This is making an example out of someone, just like the RIAA tried to do with a mom. They are making a clear statement, if you want to cheat or make cheats do it in someone else's games, this is a message to their players that they are going to try to stand up for legitimate players. It doesn't matter if they win or lose the case what matters is that they make players feel like they care. And ultimately we know that cheating is going to happen regardless. But at least fans of the game will be able to rally behind epic as a company that is at least trying.

 

[lcpiper]

Agreed. And, yes, if they can prove that they lost X amount of dollars directly due to this kid, then sure. Sue for that exact amount. $150K seems a bit too big and round for what they'd have actually lost out on because of him. Opinion and guess-work by me of course. That sounds a lot like automatically sue for the max for that particular statute, and see what we get. Kind of shotgun...

If he was doing this for a game that I created... Well, I have mixed feelings. Sure, I'd want him to stop. Sure I'd be inclined to do something beyond asking him a couple of times if he didn't. If it got bad enough, and I though it was actually impacting my game, then I would seek legal advice. I don't begrudge Epic for doing SOMETHING ALONG THESE LINES. Just not pushing for max damages and trying to run the kid into the ground for it. Personally I'd ask a judge to issue a court order that he can't access my game, its servers, or make any kinds of posts or videos about it. Not sure if that's even something they could do, but I'd attack the actual problem first, and maybe cover my legal costs.

Well, this isn't the only guy they are taking to court over this type of activity so I suspect that most of the legal leg work is already covered, they just need to tailor it to the specific case. That should keep their costs lower if that is what they intend to do, limit damages to something reasonable. But no matter what Epic says they want, the dollar amount is determined by the jury and not the plaintiff so ultimately it is up to the jury within the limits of the law.

First the Jury must find fault and therefor, find for the plaintiff.

Then they will come up with the award against the damages, it could be more it could be less, the law may place limits on the jury depending on State.

If there is more than one defendant then they will in turn, assign percentages of fault for each, this one pays 50%, that one 35%, the next 15%.

So if the State allows a minor to be sued like this, then the Jury could find the kid liable and then limit judgement to $1,000. If Mom is named as well, they could find Mom liable for 80% and the Kid 20%. Mom would be on the hook for $800 and her son could mow lawns for a couple weeks, ($200).

But legal fees, that could throw a wrench in things because even if Epic claims that they only want the kid to cover their own legal costs, those could be several Thousand all on their own.

 

[Deleted member 83233]

Perhaps but it's my understanding that in a civil court case, restitution is only in the form of money. Civil cases can have a much broader list of potential responses as "punishment".

Yeah, maybe I'm being a bit too creative in this context.

I'm just someone that likes to see the punishment fit the crime. If the crime warrants a slap on the wrist, give them a slap on the wrist. If it involves plucking out their eyes, feeding them to crows, and tossing the body on a pike as an example, then do that. Just don't toss the kid on the pike for something that warrants a tiny bit more than a slap on the wrist. Maybe put him in a cage with a sign on it that say "I cheat in Epic's games" and let people throw tomatoes at him. That might do the trick.

Obviously I'm not lawyer. I do have a pretty strong opinion on what I feel is just though. I'm mostly weighing in with my opinions here, not trying to imply that I have any legal authority.

 

[Deleted member 83233]

But legal fees, that could throw a wrench in things because even if Epic claims that they only want the kid to cover their own legal costs, those could be several Thousand all on their own.

Which is still better than 150K (hopefully. )

 

[Meeho]

I agree with him being sued IF Epic gets punished for the false DMCA takedown request as well.

 

[bsbllclown]

I agree with him being sued IF Epic gets punished for the false DMCA takedown request as well.

What false claims?

 

[lcpiper]

Yeah, maybe I'm being a bit too creative in this context.

I'm just someone that likes to see the punishment fit the crime. If the crime warrants a slap on the wrist, give them a slap on the wrist. If it involves plucking out their eyes, feeding them to crows, and tossing the body on a pike as an example, then do that. Just don't toss the kid on the pike for something that warrants a tiny bit more than a slap on the wrist. Maybe put him in a cage with a sign on it that say "I cheat in Epic's games" and let people throw tomatoes at him. That might do the trick.

Obviously I'm not lawyer. I do have a pretty strong opinion on what I feel is just though. I'm mostly weighing in with my opinions here, not trying to imply that I have any legal authority.

Sure, cage his game character and reward people XP for hitting him in the nose with a tomato.

 

[Deleted member 83233]

I agree with him being sued IF Epic gets punished for the false DMCA takedown request as well.

I thought that was a little bit of an abuse of that as well. I know a lot of companies seem to be pushing that these days, and using copyright as a broad legal tool. Like when Youtube did that broad sweep of takedowns, and much of it was false positives. (at least from what I read at the time)

 

[GoldenTiger]

I agree with him being sued IF Epic gets punished for the false DMCA takedown request as well.

Huh?

 

[Tekara]

I'm surprised no one is talking about the general moral issue with taking a customer to court frivolously like this. Last time I was banned for cheating was because I deployed to the Afghanistan and "everyone from those IP ranges is a cheater." Sure it was a super easy case to settle that only costed me several days of not playing and some email exchanges, but if I had to go through the legal system to prove my innocence in the matter, it'd have costed me thousands of dollars and who knows how much headache dealing with the fact that I wasn't even stateside so I would likely be found at fault for blowing deadlines and no being able to appear in person before the court. I'm sorry, but I don't have enough faith in humans as a whole to blindly accept that Epic will always put due diligence in every lawsuit they bring forward.

 

[Deleted member 83233]

What false claims?

I think DMCA is used too broadly. Maybe they need to come up with some laws that apply specifically to things like this. Maybe digital vandalism or defacement or something? Just thinking aloud. Once again, not a lawyer, but I don't think this was the intent when the DMCA was instantiated. I'm sure a lawyer can show me 100 reasons why it's a black and white classic case of copyright infringement, but maybe it should be something else with different penalties. (creating and/or promoting cheats, hacks, etc.)

 

[KazeoHin]

How hard is it to ban based on IP?

 

[rudy]

How hard is it to ban based on IP?

Its not hard, but its also not even remotely hard to get around an ip ban so what is the point in an ip ban?

 

[shad0w4life]

How hard is it to ban based on IP?

You wanna ban a whole ISP's IP range? Dedicated IPs aren't all that common


Not sure why she's on war path a simple "Sorry we'll take down the videos of my angry little boy" instead of defiance would have saved a massive headache.

 

[Deleted member 83233]

Its not hard, but its also not even remotely hard to get around an ip ban so what is the point in an ip ban?

It would be MORE of a deterrent than banning at the user level, but I agree that it's definitely still not a huge obstacle for someone that's determined. Also, it would have the side effect of still having that IP banned when a potentially legitimate user went to play the game when they received a lease on that address.

What would be handy for anti-cheat might be something like the way Dynamic DNS hosts work, where they could track your IP as it changed, and keep the ban on. That could have downsides I guess, but maybe it would be some improvement. Not sure exactly how you'd implement that, but maybe have some internal tag that acts as the DNS name just within the system, then updates as the IP leases run out. I actually don't know enough about the inner workings of DDNS, but it seems like something like that could potentially work.

 

[ChoGGi]

How hard is it to ban based on IP?

If he's using DHCP, it's easy enough to get a new IP. If Epic does an IP range block; say goodbye to a bunch of customers.

You mother****er, that is nasty lmao.

Just be happy it wasn't goatse



Looking at the letter from the mom, Epic should just release an update without cheat codes. Problem solved
Her argument seems to be he didn't modify the game, he downloaded cheats from a website that magically pre-modified the game, and so it isn't copyright infringement.

Probably not a good thing to say in your letter Mom: "They are also claiming he "modified their game" to use a cheat and live streamed it. This would, of course, fall under the Copyright act if he did in-fact modify their game."

Edit: Or just to admit guilt to him live-streaming with the cheats
"Caleb" *snip* "used those cheats during a game with live stream via YouTube"

 

[Deleted member 83233]

Not sure why she's on war path a simple "Sorry we'll take down the videos of my angry little boy" instead of defiance would have saved a massive headache.

Maybe. Lawyers don't always care if you're apologetic. That's not their job. I also think it was past the point of "we'll just take down the videos" since he had already contested the takedown. I'm guessing by the time she stepped in (or even knew about the problem) it was time to start denying and defending.

Edit: And this is kind of the problem as I see it. I'm thinking that if the MOM got a notice before the legal team was in full force, instead of the DMCAs going to the kid, then maybe some middle ground could have been reached before things went critical. The mom shouldn't have had to do the full deny scenario and go rabid bear in her letter, and Epic shouldn't have had to issue $150K law suits. They just needed to direct the warnings to the right person in the first place. That's a lot more diligence on their part of course to actually track down the kid's age, find out who to send the warnings to, but maybe it would have saved legal fees on Epic's part, and the letter and notoriety of the mom and kid. Everyone is so quick to escalate things to insane levels these days. I just like a more moderate approach. Not weak. Not heavy-handed. Just appropriate.

 

[bsbllclown]

I think DMCA is used too broadly. Maybe they need to come up with some laws that apply specifically to things like this. Maybe digital vandalism or defacement or something? Just thinking aloud. Once again, not a lawyer, but I don't think this was the intent when the DMCA was instantiated. I'm sure a lawyer can show me 100 reasons why it's a black and white classic case of copyright infringement, but maybe it should be something else with different penalties. (creating and/or promoting cheats, hacks, etc.)

Gotcha, I didn't personally see that as heavy handed or misused but i do see your point. I can see why people think that if you go by the letter of the law and not the intent of the law. I've always seen the intent of DMCA as a way to protect their IP and this kid was pissing all over their IP and representing it in a way that was harmful.

 

[86 5.0L]

Excellent video/analysis, I believe the difference is minors can enter into contracts with adults, but they can also dissolve them at their choosing without penalty. The other party can't


Fuck cheaters, nail this snot nose punk to the wall. Remedies can include legally banning him from using these tools and their game. If he continues then a more severe remedy can be handed to the parent

 

[86 5.0L]

Whoopity do, everyone and their grandmother asks for donations these days, setting up Patreon accounts or something else. It's the digital version of street performers or in some case bums.

Did you just call Kyle a bum?

 

[spaceman]

That young man is going to make a fine politician.

Also, Kyle is a street performer. Or was back in his break dancing days. His handle is Electro.

True story. I had a friend who was a break dancer named Electro.

 

[Deleted member 83233]

Gotcha, I didn't personally see that as heavy handed or misused but i do see your point. I can see why people think that if you go by the letter of the law and not the intent of the law. I've always seen the intent of DMCA as a way to protect their IP and this kid was pissing all over their IP and representing it in a way that was harmful.

Yeah, it's actually kind of tricky to talk about this case due to so many different aspects. There's the videos. There's the cheat tool. There's the minor aspect. From what I read he used a cheat tool, which obviously would have to modify or circumvent some of the game's code, but if he didn't write it, I have a hard time seeing the DMCA being used there. Breach of EULA, sure. I'd be more apt to go after the tool maker with a DMCA, and maybe get the kid's video shut down that way as well. I suppose it's easier for the lawyers though to just blanket the whole thing, and see what happens. I in no way agree with what the kid did, or Epic reacting. I just think it was a bit much. The kid is obviously a piece of work, but still a kid. I also do agree with protecting one's IP, and I know they want to keep their player base as happy as possible.

 

[Deleted member 83233]

That young man is going to make a fine politician.

Also, Kyle is a street performer. Or was back in his break dancing days. His handle is Electro.

True story. I had a friend who was a break dancer named Electro.

Name!

Cosmic F!

Style!

Outer Space!

 

[ChoGGi]

Yeah, it's actually kind of tricky to talk about this case due to so many different aspects. There's the videos. There's the cheat tool. There's the minor aspect. From what I read he used a cheat tool, which obviously would have to modify or circumvent some of the game's code, but if he didn't write it, I have a hard time seeing the DMCA being used there. Breach of EULA, sure. I'd be more apt to go after the tool maker with a DMCA, and maybe get the kid's video shut down that way as well. I suppose it's easier for the lawyers though to just blanket the whole thing, and see what happens. I in no way agree with what the kid did, or Epic reacting. I just think it was a bit much. The kid is obviously a piece of work, but still a kid. I also do agree with protecting one's IP, and I know they want to keep their player base as happy as possible.

It was his copy of the game being modified by the tool he was using. His mom states that in her letter.

It'd be pretty hard going after the tool makers without some proof, Epic should just ask Actiblizzard for some advice in the matter

 

[Deleted member 83233]

It was his copy of the game being modified by the tool he was using. His mom states that in her letter.

It'd be pretty hard going after the tool makers without some proof, Epic should just ask Actiblizzard for some advice in the matter

Unfortunately there's not really an easy way to handle any of this, or we'd see a lot more games being cheat-free. I'm of the opinion that there has to be a better way to go about this. Just not sure of the exact parameters. I don't run a game company that makes online games that people cheat at either though. I do produce some IP though, and while I try to protect the parts of it I don't want people having, I also try to release some of it for free, so it creates a bit of good will in the community that it's intended for. It's worked for me, but I'm not exactly a bulky company trying to combat 14 year old assholes either, so my model doesn't apply there. I know that they need to protect their business. At what point does it go from helping to creating a backlash though? Oh well, if I still even remember this case months from now, it will be interesting to see how it plays out. Odds are I'll forget all about it though.

 

[Makaveli@BETA]

its a game he was cheating in ! he's FORTEEN !

what stupid stuff did you all do with 14 ? cmon, ease off that kid !

education is not the same as punishment.

you all who wanna destroy that kid come along like saints, where is your big fat mishap ? get a life and kids, i have a few, and you may see the wisdom you were lacking

I'm sorry but based on the facts posted on the first post of this page.

He deserves all of it.

If your kids got you sued in court over cheating on a computer game i'm sure as hell you would be singing a different tune.

So don't try that moral high ground crap....

In 5 years time I wouldn't be surprised to see a story about him robbing a bank and getting caught!

 

[socK]

How hard is it to ban based on IP?

It's generally completely and utterly trivial to get a new IP as many times as you want.

You'll probably be within a certain range, but you can't exactly obliterate all those users.

 

[sfsuphysics]

The EULA is not worthless as it does not only define responsibilities of users, it also reserves the rights of the developer, hence, they can ban him, etc.

Mom can't just play ignorant and not be held responsible for her son's actions, it doesn't work that way. Mom is responsible for junior even if mom, specially if mom doesn't know what junior is up to.

Junior didn't click the button saying he was over 18? Either during the game install, while logging in, or when he downloaded from Steam?

Kind of missed my point, he's 14. The EULA is a contract. A minor can not enter into any contract of his own accord without parental/guardian authority to do so (i.e. someone else to co-sign). It doesn't matter if he clicks a button claiming he's 18, or lied on a statement that said he's 18, he's still a minor and it's up to the company who has said contract that they verify the person "signing" it is who they say, if they want to go to the least common denominator of having a simple box to check then that's on them. So all of those contract terms, do not apply to him. The other side of it is yes the company can absolutely ban him and try to prevent him from playing, you do not need a EULA for that. But using any of the language of the EULA as reasoning for said lawsuit will not apply in this case.

My "legal" counter to this though was the fact that the mom gave her son unfettered permission to download/install/etc, could constitute a broad range of "giving permission" for everything her son does.



And yes Mom would in fact be legally responsible for the bullshit DMCA laws that her son probably broke in the same way as if your kid downloaded 72 songs *snicker*, I'm sure it's a legal matter of changing the lawsuit to be "Parent and or Guardian of douche bag cheater boy" , but again injecting code into the game via breaking encryption/etc/etc is a DMCA matter not one of the EULA.

 

[ZLoth]

While I would agree with you, that if your child is problematic on the computer, a common-area solution is a good idea, or even taking it away entirely, I have to say WTF to the part of your post that I quoted. I think pretty much everyone on this forum probably "wastes" (that term is loose) time playing games on a computer. I wouldn't have gotten the jobs and opportunities I have today if it wasn't for "wasting" time playing games on computers through my childhood and on. In the context of this thread though, yeah, take the computer out of the kid's room if he's not going to behave on it.

I'm not going to argue that there aren't people who "waste time playing video games". I'm one of them. Especially after a tough support shift. I also gave up video games for almost a decade in order to pursue (and achieve) a business degree.

Ummm, I put computers in both my daughter's rooms. I bought them games, they got my hand-me down video cards, etc.

Your daughters probably had to earn the privilege of the having the computers in their room. And congratulations on being the responsible parent who brought up successful children.

The kid is fourteen years old. He's probably in ninth grade. You do the math. Of course, when I was fourteen, my viewpoints, priorities, and choices were much different than when I was forty. Of course, the graphics weren't as good back then. (Think early-mid 1980s).

Who am I siding with in this battle between Epic and mom? To be fair, neither, as I do not have much more information that the article reprinted here. The fact that it has reached a public level means that someone is really ticked off.