Molten Salt Dropped Into Water @ 5000 FPS

I was expecting that, sodium explodes upon contact with water. That idiot should have at least googled the chemical he was fucking with.
 
looks like a large part of the water became superheated then vaporized all at once.
 
Cabezone said:
I was expecting that, sodium explodes upon contact with water. That idiot should have at least googled the chemical he was fucking with.
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I don't think you've seen many of this guys videos. He's generally well known for just burning stuff, blowing up stuff and pouring melted aluminum on shit.
 
Cabezone said:
I was expecting that, sodium explodes upon contact with water. That idiot should have at least googled the chemical he was fucking with.
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Salt is not volatile to water, What I'm wondering if at that temperature, the sodium separates from the chlorine, or is it just so damn hot that the water vaporises rapidly?
 
KazeoHin said:
Salt is not volatile to water, What I'm wondering if at that temperature, the sodium separates from the chlorine, or is it just so damn hot that the water vaporises rapidly?
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Probably. Gotta remember that water flashing off into steam expands at a ratio of 1:1700. Do that fast enough and since the surrounding water isn't compressible... you would get a kaboom.
 
Merc1138 said:
Probably. Gotta remember that water flashing off into steam expands at a ratio of 1:1700. Do that fast enough and since the surrounding water isn't compressible... you would get a kaboom.
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Exactly. The explosion was from the super-heated water trying to expand in that little, glass aquarium and it had nowhere to go but through the glass. They would have had better results using a 1/4 thick polymer cubed contatiner that could have withstood the pleasure of the expanding water.

Still fun to watch. :)
 
KazeoHin said:
Salt is not volatile to water, What I'm wondering if at that temperature, the sodium separates from the chlorine, or is it just so damn hot that the water vaporises rapidly?
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It's just the steam.
 
Cabezone said:
I was expecting that, sodium explodes upon contact with water. That idiot should have at least googled the chemical he was fucking with.
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I definitely have no idea but was kind of expecting it due to H's headline. However, my first thoughts afterwards other than holy shit is like yours. This idiot could have been seriously hurt or died as a result from the injuries. The projectile glasses could have seriously f''d him up, like ripped up his front chest and stomach area.
 
Entertaining video, but making glass explode over a lawn is just a really bad idea, especially if kids / pets ever venture out into the yard. At a minimum this should have been done over a concrete surface and with a much longer pole or a remote-controlled robot.
 
SGTGimpy said:
Exactly. The explosion was from the super-heated water trying to expand in that little, glass aquarium and it had nowhere to go but through the glass. They would have had better results using a 1/4 thick polymer cubed contatiner that could have withstood the pleasure of the expanding water.

Still fun to watch. :)
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But I think the result everyone wants to see IS the kaboom. Fun to watch indeed. I was surprised it took so little to create such an explosion.
 
Betaboy1983 said:
But I think the result everyone wants to see IS the kaboom. Fun to watch indeed. I was surprised it took so little to create such an explosion.
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It wasn't really an explosion, and it's not that little. Salt melts at 1500 degrees, and the glass of a fish tank isn't that durable. He's creating a big steam bubble very quickly. Not that different to the "superheated water in a coffee cup from a microwave" thing where you can create a small steam explosion in your face by putting your water in the microwave too long and then sticking a spoon in it.
 
potency said:
Entertaining video, but making glass explode over a lawn is just a really bad idea, especially if kids / pets ever venture out into the yard. At a minimum this should have been done over a concrete surface and with a much longer pole or a remote-controlled robot.
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This was my first thought too. I'd end up sodding over the whole yard if I exploded this much glass on it.

My second thought was anyone playing with explosions while wearing shorts and a loose shirt is a dumb ass.
 
Ocellaris said:
This was my first thought too. I'd end up sodding over the whole yard if I exploded this much glass on it.

My second thought was anyone playing with explosions while wearing shorts and a loose shirt is a dumb ass.
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Wouldn't work in the North, any Frost would drive the glass back up
 
Perhaps it the surface area of the salt increases when it interacts with the water, because it is an ionic compound and the water is also ionic.

 
I don't think you can heat water fast enough with molten metal to cause it to explode. Look at the video again, the explosion occurs less than 1/4 of a second after the molten metal hits (I'd day probably even less than 100ms, but I'm not sure). There are plenty of videos of people dropping molten aluminum (a little cooler than 1500F molten salt) and molten copper (about 1900F, 400F hotter than molten salt) into water and it just boils (sometimes pretty violently) but never explodes. There's even some video of thermite being burned into water, and, again, while violent, there is no explosion like in this video.

So far I'm going to agree with Cabezone. Sodium explosion.
 
phoffman said:
Perhaps it the surface area of the salt increases when it interacts with the water, because it is an ionic compound and the water is also ionic.

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Heh, i just found that video as well. Interesting stuff. I still don't mechanism of coulombic explosions, besides the idea that at the end of a process your left with a bunch of similarly charged particles that repel each other -> explosion.
 
SGTGimpy said:
Exactly. The explosion was from the super-heated water trying to expand in that little, glass aquarium and it had nowhere to go but through the glass. They would have had better results using a 1/4 thick polymer cubed contatiner that could have withstood the pleasure of the expanding water.

Still fun to watch. :)
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Pleasure or pressure?
 
that isn't even the video of it, but is a teaser of the video that will go up today.
 
Merc1138 said:
Probably. Gotta remember that water flashing off into steam expands at a ratio of 1:1700. Do that fast enough and since the surrounding water isn't compressible... you would get a kaboom.
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That expansion ratio is one of the primary factors which dictates the size and constrution of water cooled nuclear plant concrete containment domes. The video actually reminds me of the SPERT tests, basically it's a steam excursion.

 
KazeoHin said:
Salt is not volatile to water, What I'm wondering if at that temperature, the sodium separates from the chlorine, or is it just so damn hot that the water vaporises rapidly?
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All the elements in column 1 are highly reactive in a similar manner with water....they just get much more exatic and harder to handle and expensive as you go. If you take pure sodium metal and expose it to water, it is quite violent.
 
Skripka said:
All the elements in column 1 are highly reactive in a similar manner with water....they just get much more exatic and harder to handle and expensive as you go. If you take pure sodium metal and expose it to water, it is quite violent.
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Sodium is, yes. Sodium chloride is not. Sodium chloride melts quite happily and doesn't somehow become elemental sodium.

Elemental sodium reacts with water to form hydrogen, sodium hydroxide, and lots of heat. The heat flash-boils the water, and creates a high enough temperature for the hydrogen to ignite with the O2 in the air. That combination is why you get a nice explosion with fire and smoke when you throw a hunk of sodium into a pond.

That's not what's happening in the video, though. This is a pure steam explosion from the heat. No chemical reactions going on as far as I can tell. Something seems to have discolored the melted sodium chloride though, so there's probably some contaminant.
 
Pure Sodium (Na+) is dangerous. They store it in oil for this very reason.

Pure Mg and Al powder (thermite) is dangerous too if you heat it enough.
 
kumquat said:
Sodium is, yes. Sodium chloride is not. Sodium chloride melts quite happily and doesn't somehow become elemental sodium.

Elemental sodium reacts with water to form hydrogen, sodium hydroxide, and lots of heat. The heat flash-boils the water, and creates a high enough temperature for the hydrogen to ignite with the O2 in the air. That combination is why you get a nice explosion with fire and smoke when you throw a hunk of sodium into a pond.
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I don't know if you saw the "why sodium explodes" video in this thread higher up, but in one of the tests they drop sodium (or maybe it was potassium, not sure) quickly deep into water and it explodes very quickly. The point at which it explodes there is little air to oxygenate the hydrogen near the sodium and not enough to create such an energetic explosion. Furthermore, after the explosoin is finished, the hydrogen THEN ignites and you can see it burn off afterwards. Alkali metal-water explosions doesn't seem to be caused by hydrogen burning.

That's not what's happening in the video, though. This is a pure steam explosion from the heat. No chemical reactions going on as far as I can tell. Something seems to have discolored the melted sodium chloride though, so there's probably some contaminant.
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I'm not sure why you think it's a stream explosion. What's your evidence? I have seen many videos of people pouring/putting/igninting substances in water that are at far higher temperatures than molten salt, they do not explode. They boil violently and sink to the bottom. Look up videos of molten aluminum, molten copper, even lava pouring into water.

How would the superheating theory work? The instant a hot material comes in contact with the water it begins to rapidly boil off, when that happens it creates steam which pushes the rest of the water away from the hot source. This insulates the water until the steam bubble goes away and the water comes back into contact with the heat source and the process repeats. It's a self regulating process without any positive feedback or exponential process required for an explosion. If it was in a closed container it could slowly build up pressure, but this isn't in a closed container and the explosion happens very quickly after the salt makes contact with the water.

Maybe the water somehow superheats beyond it's boiling point and then it rapidly flash boils (like the microwave superheating water experiments)? But the slow motion part of the molten salt video seems like the salt is covered in a layer of gas which to me would suggest it's boiling the instant the sodium hits the water. Even if it did I have trouble imagining that it would be able to transfer that much heat in such a short amount of time to cause a steam explosion that big.
 
serpretetsky said:
I don't know if you saw the "why sodium explodes" video in this thread higher up, but in one of the tests they drop sodium (or maybe it was potassium, not sure) quickly deep into water and it explodes very quickly. The point at which it explodes there is little air to oxygenate the hydrogen near the sodium and not enough to create such an energetic explosion. Furthermore, after the explosoin is finished, the hydrogen THEN ignites and you can see it burn off afterwards. Alkali metal-water explosions doesn't seem to be caused by hydrogen burning.
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Depends on the video. In some videos there's very rapidly some fire and smoke. I expect it depends on how quickly it sinks beneath the surface before the reaction occurs. If it's still covered in oil, you'll probably not see fire until later if at all. If it's fairly dry, and can react immediately upon hitting the water, you might get the fire.

As for the rest... there's not really much other explanation, is there?
 
Sodium is reactive to water, just very mild. Try the old salt-water trick with a connection and a lightbulb trick.



Now, when you apply a crap ton of stored energy into a reactive substance like Sodium, which is normally mild in nature, you get the exact opposite effect. Look at potassium, tons of stored energy in its inert state, when put into water it explodes, same thing happens with Sodium when you give it tons of energy. What you see happening in the video is sudden expansion of energy when the salt comes into contact with the water.

When the salt is poured into the water, the water starts absorbing the energy until the expansion is too fast for the water to absorb and its released in the destructive force.

If you could instantly boil water, the steam would go for the least resistive path and just steam straight up o. It may super heat the glass enough for it to become brittle, but that's besides the point.
 
Trimlock said:
Sodium is reactive to water, just very mild. Try the old salt-water trick with a connection and a lightbulb trick.



Now, when you apply a crap ton of stored energy into a reactive substance like Sodium, which is normally mild in nature, you get the exact opposite effect. Look at potassium, tons of stored energy in its inert state, when put into water it explodes, same thing happens with Sodium when you give it tons of energy. What you see happening in the video is sudden expansion of energy when the salt comes into contact with the water.

When the salt is poured into the water, the water starts absorbing the energy until the expansion is too fast for the water to absorb and its released in the destructive force.

If you could instantly boil water, the steam would go for the least resistive path and just steam straight up o. It may super heat the glass enough for it to become brittle, but that's besides the point.
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This is satire, I assume?
 
kumquat said:
Depends on the video. In some videos there's very rapidly some fire and smoke. I expect it depends on how quickly it sinks beneath the surface before the reaction occurs. If it's still covered in oil, you'll probably not see fire until later if at all. If it's fairly dry, and can react immediately upon hitting the water, you might get the fire.
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I dont understand whether you are agreeing or disagreeing with me on the reason alkali metals explode when exposed to fire, but that's ok. I'm more curious why you think this is a steam explosion.
 
serpretetsky said:
I dont understand whether you are agreeing or disagreeing with me on the reason alkali metals explode when exposed to fire, but that's ok. I'm more curious why you think this is a steam explosion.
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What else could it be?
 
serpretetsky said:
I dont understand whether you are agreeing or disagreeing with me on the reason alkali metals explode when exposed to fire, but that's ok. I'm more curious why you think this is a steam explosion.
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What makes you think this would be anything other than a steam explosion? He didn't pour sodium into water, he poured molten salt into it. Really hot objects in water will create steam, the expansion rate of water into steam is 1:1700. If any water became steam and expanded, it would push against the water surrounding it which cannot compress, hence... kaboom.
 
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