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Modern CRTs?

rabidz7

rabidz7

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 24, 2014
Messages
1,354
Would it be possible to have a 24" 48KHz-250KHz, 48Hz-300Hz CRT? If it is possible, how much more would it cost to produce than a 2160p60Hz or 1440p120Hz LCD? Why doesn't anyone make proper displays any more?
 
Probably because there's like 10 people in the world that actually want huge clunky CRTs.
 
My 21" CRT weighed more than 45kg... Definitely not going back to that.
 
Last time I had checked a few factories in china could still make crts but you would have to buy a crap load of them to have them do a run. Past that I don't know of anything modern.
 
swatbat said:
Last time I had checked a few factories in china could still make crts but you would have to buy a crap load of them to have them do a run. Past that I don't know of anything modern.
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Do you have a link?
 
you are making SED or FED so why do you care bout old and heavy CRT? :confused:
 
10 years on and still no proper replacement for the high end CRT computer monitor. Obviously it sucks.

Full array locally dimmed LCD is interesting. And OLED would take things to another level. Hopefully they get the burn in and motion issues resolved...

As to CRT, I don't think it will be coming back...Although I think complaining about the size, weight, thinness, or whatever, of something that gets put on a desk and just sits there is absurd, it is true that CRT can't practically scale to the bigger sizes...my attempts to transition to LCD involved going big...going for quantity to compensate for the lack of quality...which actually does kind of work...
 
Could CRT's be made a lot lighter and smaller if they used carbon-fiber for most of the tube? I imagine you could reduce the weight by 3/4's if only the front was glass. I don't know if it would still work though.
 
Basically, every good display tech tanked, and we are left with 4k 3d 8000p curved upside down lightboosting turds.
 
suiken_2mieu said:
Check out SED / FED and then cry.
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FED/SED = CRT without the drawbacks (weight, size, power consumption, not-perfect geometry). Even if it's a fixed-pixel display (sort of), it looks like you could do like CRT and just disable a certain amount of emitters to match the resolution and frequency selected.
 
OLED can take up the mantle eventually. FED/SED production obviously turned out to be too technical for anyone to handle effectively. Say what you want about LCD's, but their reliability over the long term is not in question.
 
EnhancedInterrogator said:
Yeah, those seemed cool, but they were fixed pixel. I'm just curious if one can even use carbon fiber to construct a tube.
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the tube needs to have a good vacuum... which isn't an easy task if you have a carbonfiber/glass interface somewhere.

and plastics/carbonfiber probably leak gases anyway though i'm not sure how much
 
There are carbon fiber tanks that can be pressurized to 3-5k PSI for around $5-700. Typically they use metal or plastic liners to prevent gas leakage through the carbon fiber. Their lifespan is limited but that is true of regular metal tanks at those pressures as well.

I'm sure the idea could work well in reverse and maintain a vacuum for the tube to function. The problem I think would be the cost. You could build the tube for less than the $5-700 those tanks cost since it'd only have to maintain a vacuum against about 15 PSI. Probably much less come to think of it since that $5-700 price has a profit margin or 2 baked into it. Maybe build it to stand 20-25 PSI to be on the safe side. You'd still be probably talking about hundreds just for the tube and it'd still be huge like old CRT's.

And fairly heavy. You'd still need the glass for the front of the tube. The market for it would be very niche too so mass scale manufacturing wouldn't pan out either unfortunately. Most people like the thin space saving nature of LCD's and don't notice the mediocrity of LCD's vs CRT's because they're usually just looking at Twitter, Facebook, or Youtube where the deficiencies are hard or impossible to notice.
 
just cuz it can handle high pressure doesn't mean that it has a slow rate of leakage. for example if a container starts at 100psi and drops to 99psi over a year, that would be acceptable right? now the same container used for a vacuum may go from 0.001psi to 0.14 psi over a year... that's completely unacceptable

plus
flod said:
have a carbonfiber/glass
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dmonkey said:
OLED can take up the mantle eventually.
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OLED news in 2004: Like most pages from 2004, this one's broken but at least we have a headline of "OLED TV Gets Ready For Prime Time". Just to underline that OLED has been getting ready for primetime for the same ten years that CRTs have been dead.

OLED news in 2007: "OLED-TV shipments worldwide are expected to increase to 1.2 million units in 2012." Perhaps the most pessimistic prediction ever made for OLED and they still completely blew it.

OLED news in 2007: "Samsung says it'll push out some full HD, 40 and 42-inch OLED panels in the year 2010, at which point the technology will no doubt seem woefully outdated." :D

OLED news in 2009: to be ready for primetime in "2011ish at the very minimum".

OLED news in 2014: "IHS Research predicts that around 14,000 OLED TV units will ship in the US during 2014, and that number will increase to almost 1.2 million units in 2018." Let me put that "I WANT TO BELIEVE" poster back up on my wall.
 
flod said:
just cuz it can handle high pressure doesn't mean that it has a slow rate of leakage
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Lined carbon fiber tanks have been used to store gas/liquids including hydrogen which isn't easy to do at all.

Hydrogen powered cars use them too as a 'gas' tank.

Epoxies have been around for years that bond just fine with glass and carbon fiber. Its pretty common to find fiber glass and carbon fiber mixed or bonded together. Methacrylate might even work so long as you prep the surface of the glass properly. Its been around for well over a decade AFAIK.

What exactly are you looking at that makes you think this is particularly difficult to do?
 
flod said:
compared to laser/qd/oled the gamut which is limited by the phosphors is kind of a drawback. and also phosphor trail/lag
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Both of which are remedied. The first point is that modern phosphors that support wider gamuts could be created. Same with the phosphor persistence. There are lower-persistence phosphors that don't have perceiveable lag.
 
Is adaptive-sync (AKA G-sync) even theoretically possible with a CRT? I know CRTs of the past basically have to prime themselves for any change in refresh rate or resolution, so they're not even close to fast enough at changing their scan rate.
 
EnhancedInterrogator said:
Is adaptive-sync (AKA G-sync) even theoretically possible with a CRT? I know CRTs of the past basically have to prime themselves for any change in refresh rate or resolution, so they're not even close to fast enough at changing their scan rate.
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Not really... The screen's brightness would vary depending on refresh rate. And refresh rates under 75Hz-85Hz would flicker badly, so it would only be usable at high game rates anyway.
 
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evilsofa said:
Let me put that "I WANT TO BELIEVE" poster back up on my wall.
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Don't read the headlines, see what's actually available. LG's 55EA9800 was priced at ~10k or so last year and was recently available for $2000. Their new iteration for this year MSRP's at $7000 and sells for $3500. Unless their factory blows up, this time it's coming around for real. Hopefully in two years we'll see a 34UM98-E for $1000.
 
evilsofa said:
OLED news in 2004: Like most pages from 2004, this one's broken but at least we have a headline of "OLED TV Gets Ready For Prime Time". Just to underline that OLED has been getting ready for primetime for the same ten years that CRTs have been dead.

OLED news in 2007: "OLED-TV shipments worldwide are expected to increase to 1.2 million units in 2012." Perhaps the most pessimistic prediction ever made for OLED and they still completely blew it.

OLED news in 2007: "Samsung says it'll push out some full HD, 40 and 42-inch OLED panels in the year 2010, at which point the technology will no doubt seem woefully outdated." :D

OLED news in 2009: to be ready for primetime in "2011ish at the very minimum".

OLED news in 2014: "IHS Research predicts that around 14,000 OLED TV units will ship in the US during 2014, and that number will increase to almost 1.2 million units in 2018." Let me put that "I WANT TO BELIEVE" poster back up on my wall.
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Except they were no competing OLED TVs in market til' last year and your list have 2 articles from the same year and the 2nd most recent one is over 5 years old
 
Salanmon said:
Except they were no competing OLED TVs in market til' last year and your list have 2 articles from the same year and the 2nd most recent one is over 5 years old
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Yes, yes... keep going... you can do it...
 
evilsofa said:
Yes, yes... keep going... you can do it...
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Heh I get the critical view for OLED. However having seen a 55 inch LG (9300 series) OLED in action I can safely say they are here and they are ready for prime time. Granted its still $3500 but that's very reasonable compared to two years ago at $20,000.

This is of course still a 1080p set but even so its the single best display I've ever seen with contrast that even the best plasma couldn't ever hope to reach. There are still issues but I have never seen OLED approach the point it has until recently so I think within a year it'll be down to $1500 or lower and be realistically in the market place. 4k OLED's are out there but stupid expensive and probably another 2 years before they are reasonably priced.

I do not think it'll move to the monitor market however because it still has burn in issues. Until that problem can be addressed now that Blue OLED has been address it'll remain outside of the monitor market.
 
I just hope I'll live to see the day when a 27" OLED on my desk will finally be able to show all the games that came out in the past 10 years, looking like they were actually supposed to look. With BLACK.
 
4ort said:
I just hope I'll live to see the day when a 27" OLED on my desk will finally be able to show all the games that came out in the past 10 years, looking like they were actually supposed to look. With BLACK.
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I know that feeling.
 
Godmachine said:
Heh I get the critical view for OLED. However having seen a 55 inch LG (9300 series) OLED in action I can safely say they are here and they are ready for prime time. Granted its still $3500 but that's very reasonable compared to two years ago at $20,000.

This is of course still a 1080p set but even so its the single best display I've ever seen with contrast that even the best plasma couldn't ever hope to reach. There are still issues but I have never seen OLED approach the point it has until recently so I think within a year it'll be down to $1500 or lower and be realistically in the market place. 4k OLED's are out there but stupid expensive and probably another 2 years before they are reasonably priced.

I do not think it'll move to the monitor market however because it still has burn in issues. Until that problem can be addressed now that Blue OLED has been address it'll remain outside of the monitor market.
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FWIW the 55EC9300 dropped to $2500 yesterday.
 
4ort said:
Basically, every good display tech tanked, and we are left with 4k 3d 8000p curved upside down lightboosting turds.
Click to expand...

Indeed. If I had the money I'd finish up the R&D on SED and start selling them. Blow all these money-grubbing companies out of the water. The've been stringing us along on abysmal LCD technology for over a decade with few improvements.

FED: unstable, host of probably insurmountable challenges.
OLED: doubt the differential degredation problem can be solved.
Crystal LED: Could work, if anyone bothered to spend a little more time on it.
CRT: Heavy, hard to make large sizes, sharpness/convergence/aging problems.
LCD: Atrocious motion blur, sample-and-hold, no self-emissive pixels (fail). But let's dress it up with more pixels and curve the screen a little and sell it as a revolution, amiright?

And then there's SED, the holy grail. Functional already. Abandoned due to patent trolling, despicable litigiousness, and the realization that the tech was so fundamentally robust that consumers would have no reason to upgrade on the desired 3-5 year cycle. Another victim of planned obsolescence.

SED could be in cell phones, tablets, and desktops today. It should be.
 
4ort said:
Basically, every good display tech tanked, and we are left with 4k 3d 8000p curved upside down lightboosting turds.
Click to expand...

As far as I'm concerned, we're lucky simply for IPS panel (LCD type) still exist. Few people are willing to buy even that... Very few people today are willing to pay for quality.
 
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