MMOs are Good for you.

[Rofl-Mic-Lofl]

It's a known fact that if someone sits on their fuckin' computer 168 hours a week they're going to develop serious problems.

Proof? Once again, you're basing things off a grandma's perspective. Just because one person/1000 does it, it doesn't mean they all do. You don't see me going around saying "If you go out to parties you're gonna do drugs and get drunk" No some do, but not all.

These few people I know are people who used to go out and socialize like NORMAL people do. Now they're confined to a room, paying $15.00 a month or more for some lame shitty looking game

. So once again were to the fact that you don't like WoW. Stop telling people it's satan just because you think it's a bad game. You're in no position to tell someone what's "normal".

If someone doesn't like going out with their buddies or leaving their computer for a while..then they're either depressed / something is not correct with them / they need help.

They might think you're a prick(I sure do) Maybe that's why they don't want to go out and "hang" with you. You know, what you find fun. not all people will.

With that, stop being a closed minded Dr. Phil wanna-be and GTFO.

 

[hity645]

What do you do for fun? You never answered my question.

How is having clean fun a waste of a life? You don't have to be depressed to play WoW.. That's like saying everyone that drinks is depressed. Yes, some.. but some do it for fun, etc. A very small percentage are "living" in WoW. Yes, a lot of people play it quite a bit, but it's not like everyone that plays WoW is a hermit that never comes out.
-1 for being closed minded. You sound like my Grandma,"Video games are the devil"

Boy I bet you'd like to know...so you can rip on what I do. I never said anyone playing WoW was a hermit. A hermit would imply that they spend all their time inside...I never said they do that.

 

[Bob002]

Yeah I recently quit WoW as well. I had a lot of fun playing, the only reason I stopped is because I don't have the time to be a "hardcore raider" anymore, and for me, being casual just isn't fun.

I'm very much an all or nothing type of person.

Hello Mr Addictive Personality.

 

[MantisIT]

Proof? Once again, you're basing things off a grandma's perspective. Just because one person/1000 does it, it doesn't mean they all do. You don't see me going around saying "If you go out to parties you're gonna do drugs and get drunk" No some do, but not all.

. So once again were to the fact that you don't like WoW. Stop telling people it's satan just because you think it's a bad game. You're in no position to tell someone what's "normal".


They might think you're a prick(I sure do) Maybe that's why they don't want to go out and "hang" with you. You know, what you find fun. not all people will.

With that, stop being a closed minded Dr. Phil wanna-be(lmao hypocrite?) and GTFO.

Nah, here I'll get a ladder to help you get down from your high horse.

Click

That's a simple google search that took 2 seconds, one story of many. So before you shoot some random ratio out again, think.

I'll also reiterate: These people that I know did stuff with me and my other friends all the time, they don't want to do anything now because of that game they play.

So it's not me, that's just some retaliation on your part b/c I one upped' the fact that you're a loser that never leaves his house and is trying to defend spending all of his time on a computer in some lame ass game.

 

[Qujo]

From what I have seen with my friends, coworkers and family, is that the people who defend MMO playing in such an aggressive manner are usually the ones who are the deepest into the addiction. The behavior is no different from any other kind of addiction.

The trick with an MMO is to use moderation, but the people who play casually aren't usually the ones posting on message boards defending the game they play with such fervor.

That article is rubbish. From the article: "they offer players the opportunity to be exposed to diverse worldviews that they may not encounter in the real world.". Yes, I'm sure all of the world views from the throngs of teenagers and losers playing wow are "diverse". Give me a break.

 

[-=KaTcH(13)=-]

You presume the majority of the world has something better to do with their weeknights... like go out and pretend you like other ppl so they can pretend they like you and you can be judged by how pretty you got dressed up and how expensive that cologne is...

If it wasnt for getting laid by un-worthwhile ppl, no self-respecting human being would be out at clubs and bars. Every person at a bar looks like theyre wasting their life away, and every person at a club looks like theyre throwing theirs away. You come for the the dancing, the fast women, and eventualy you stay for the pickups, sex and innevitably drugs... how the hell else do you go clubbing? And if you're not in bars or clubs, what are you doing? watching TV? well i can tell you from years of experiences that MMOs are damn more productive socialy than sitting on your ass and watching Lost.

If you could possibly attest to gaming affecting intellectual life, you'd be totaly wrong, I got through college perfectly fine with it and so did many others. And I made a pact when i started gaming that I would not miss a single social event for staying on EQ and it never happened, nor was it hard to maintain as a lifestyle.

And while that world may-be imaginary, the people on the other end of those keyboards are sure as hell not. Let me be the first to say this, EverQuest got me laid and past my virginity in the first place AND she was cute. My friends fiance that he met on EQ and is moving to florida to marry this november is allso not bad, just has 1 kid is the problem but the kid is nice and likes him.

LMAO

 

[Niko084]

I'm guilty, I have played almost every mmorpg out there. And I am still suck on ultima online, and probably always will be.

But I can say that I think that article and study was stupid! I think its a bunch of bs, and sooner or later people have to be able to deal with people in the real world, not in a game with a thousand miles of cable between them. There was an episode of a show once, that the world became solitude, and everyone talked and worked together through machines, computers, and no real live contact. Kinda messed up view on it, being the show is probably now around 10 years old, but good point non-the less.

As far as what is good for you, it is proven that gaming sharpens your thought process and greatly aids in hand eye cordination, and increases response time. In any case making basic skills alot better over time.

Actually that was a study done on drivers, started as children they took 30 boys and 30 girls, 15 of each were allowed to play games, 15 of each were not. They related it driectly to driving, as funny as that sounds. See most people know that more accidents actually happen to women "no offense its true", men just tend to kill more people and do more damage because the accidents happen at 110mph instead of 55mph. But they have found that is mostly because men generally play more video games! Infact in the study done the girls generally came out ahead by the end. Which makes sense following another study done by a group of doctors, who basically said that the way a female brain operates allows it to react at faster rates then a males. But here comes the funny part, females truely multi-task, males brains time-splice. Women can do more things truley at the same time, but males brains are more efficent.

Very odd studies and what not, but the way I see it don't take away my games, but my god do not include mmo's into schools! And with enough studies like this I can see it happening...

Just as a kinda not so funny end here....

Some people should not be allowed to play games at all, or at least not violent ones! Have any of you heard of the kid who killed a bunch of people in the movie theater and they blamed Duke Nukem 3d? Sounds kinda funny until you look a bit further into it, he actually shot seat count from center isle the people who were sitting exactly where the monsters pop up in the game. Now that would take some brain problems to start with to be able to develop an issue off of it, but I can't say it didn't have anything to do with it.

Also just for the crap of it here I am not against violent games, I just think some people are better off as far away from them as humanly possible.

 

[CodeX]

Anyone who says their life was ruined by an MMO is just trying to take the blame off of themselves. If you can't control how much of your time goes to a video game than YOU are an idiot and YOU are ruining your life, not the game. People are pathetic.

"WoW made me lose my job, fail my classes, and get a divorce... its all WoW's fault!"

Maybe... its because you are a loser.

 

[]|[ Mar']['in ]|[]

I had close to 200 days played in barely over a year. And I'm perfectly happy with how my life was for that time. As well as the time after.

 

[DarkfallFan]

Anyone who says their life was ruined by an MMO is just trying to take the blame off of themselves. If you can't control how much of your time goes to a video game than YOU are an idiot and YOU are ruining your life, not the game. People are pathetic.

"WoW made me lose my job, fail my classes, and get a divorce... its all WoW's fault!"

Maybe... its because you are a loser.

I agree. I'm still deciding if I want to play Darkfall Online when it is released. I haven't gamed in about 2 1/2 years because I know (after 2 years of UO) it just takes too much time away from stuff that could be productive. I just turned 20, am in college, and in 3 years will hopefully be starting a career that will determine how everything in my life goes after that. Do I really want to commit to an MMO that I will have to spend hours playing to "keep up"? In the end, does it really count for anything? I definately need something to do for fun when I am relaxing, but after Ultima Online I realized I am a power-gamer at heart.

All about opurtunity cost I guess.

 

[Rofl-Mic-Lofl]

The behavior is no different from any other kind of addiction.

losers playing wow

Yes, WoW is addicting, but it's because it's fun. Addictions aren't bad. You know what? I'm addicted to work, and my girlfriend is addicted to exercising. Yes, you can associate addiction with crack. But, you also can associate it with good things.

How did you come to the conclusion that everyone playing WoW is a loser? Because they do different things then you, they must be a loser? Put them on a fucking cross why don't you.

 

[Rofl-Mic-Lofl]

Nah, here I'll get a ladder to help you get down from your high horse.
Click

My high horse? You're the one saying WoW is for losers and you're above it.
Yes, like I said a few per thousand. There's 6million people playing it, I'm sure a few have had some bad stories. But they're attention whores.

I'll also reiterate: These people that I know did stuff with me and my other friends all the time, they don't want to do anything now because of that game they play.

Have you ever thought they just plain think what you guys do is boring now? Maybe WoW is funner then what you guys do.

So it's not me, that's just some retaliation on your part b/c I one upped' the fact that you're a loser that never leaves his house and is trying to defend spending all of his time on a computer in some lame ass game.

1. I havent played an MMO for 4months, so before you toss around that I'm a "loser" for playing a game all day.. you might want to think about that.
2. Once again, you're whole arguement is on the fact that you think WoW is a bad game.

 

[MantisIT]

 

[J-Mag]

my main thing with this was always, who cares?

If someone can sit on a computer for 20 hours a day, not harm himself, or anyone else, and can survive happily, then who gives a shit? Let 'em be.

Are you in favor of legalizing crack then? I mean as long as the crackhead sit in front of his crack pipe for 20 hours a day and doesn't harm anyone...

 

[Rofl-Mic-Lofl]

Are you in favor of legalizing crack then? I mean as long as the crackhead sit in front of his crack pipe for 20 hours a day and doesn't harm anyone...

Crack effects your state of mind. You don't see WoW players robbing people's houses for $15 every month.

You know, the similie of WoW being crack started as a joke people.

 

[Niko084]

Yes, WoW is addicting, but it's because it's fun. Addictions aren't bad. You know what? I'm addicted to work, and my girlfriend is addicted to exercising. Yes, you can associate addiction with crack. But, you also can associate it with good things.

How did you come to the conclusion that everyone playing WoW is a loser? Because they do different things then you, they must be a loser? Put them on a fucking cross why don't you.

Actually you might want to look into that a bit further did you know that Origin Systems, Electronic Arts, and Sony Entertainment, were all found to be hiring psycologists *spelling*, to actually help them program and design the games in a way to make them adictive? Kinda funny once you think about it that way huh.

 

[CodeX]

Bad addictions involve chemical dependance. WoW is not addicting in the same way that cigarettes or crack is addicting. People who play it a lot do so because they like it. If they are playing it and don't like it they are idiots, they are not addicted.

 

[J-Mag]

Crack effects your state of mind. You don't see WoW players robbing people's houses for $15 every month.

You know, the similie of WoW being crack started as a joke people.

I have read studies showing that addictive video game behavior has effects in dopamine regulation similar to that of cocaine abuse.

Also do you truely believe there is no increase in crime because of Wow? Where there is a need for money, crime will exist. Obviously it is less apparent, because there is less need, but that is besides the point.

 

[J-Mag]

Bad addictions involve chemical dependance. WoW is not addicting in the same way that cigarettes or crack is addicting. People who play it a lot do so because they like it. If they are playing it and don't like it they are idiots, they are not addicted.

You have no idea what you are talking about. It is addiciting in almost exactly the same way. Except instead of a foreign substance causing the increased release of the neurotransmitter dopamine, it is a set of external stimuli.

 

[CodeX]

You have no idea what you are talking about. It is addiciting in almost exactly the same way. Except instead of a foreing sustance causing the increased release of the neurotransmitter dopamine, it is a set of external stimuli.

EVERYTHING is a set of external stimuli, its called being conscious

 

[J-Mag]

EVERYTHING is a set of external stimuli, its called being conscious

OK Socrates, why don't you go back to programming.

Anyway, not all stimuli create addictive behavior and that stimuli that does will not necessarily create the same behavoir amongst different brain phenotypes.

 

[merlin704]

My friend and his wife play WoW religiously. She never leaves her room for ANYTHING unless its a drink, some food or to use the restroom. As many times as I have been to their house, I've seen her twice in the past month. He on the other hand, will make plans with me and one of our other friends....then blow us off because he had to go do a raid. They let WoW run their life. They can't make ANY plans to do anything unless they consult their WoW friends first.

What's worse, is they spend no time together....or with their 3 children.

 

[Niko084]

You have no idea what you are talking about. It is addiciting in almost exactly the same way. Except instead of a foreign substance causing the increased release of the neurotransmitter dopamine, it is a set of external stimuli.

FYI- Dopamine is the chemical your body overloads on when you smoke pot, thats how it originally gots its nickname Dope.

 

[Grader]

I played EQ for 5+years also, then moved onto WoW for another 1.5 years. I Prolly have 500+ days played and dont regret any of them. I actually saved so much money versus blowing 50-100 bucks a night at a nightclub.

I have held the same job for 11 years and enjoyed all of the online friends I met. How many hours a day do you mmorpg player haters spend watching TV???

 

[speculative]

The article may be accurate, but in reading the fine print about "light" social connections vs. "deeper" social connections, I think there is a lot of information there that was simply left out/glossed over. For example, how much of a social connection can you make when there are no consequences. You can steal a rare drop from your raid party, and what are the consequences? Nothing. I think if anything, MMO's strongly encourage the "I'm looking out for #1" mentality, which is an anti-social mentality.

I 2nd the opinion that quitting WoW was like entering a whole new world... It doesn't rot your teeth like meth does, but that's about the only difference. It's not that I don't game anymore, I play a ton of single-player games, but I play when I feel like it and when I'm ready to quit I just turn it off, unlike an MMO where you wait 2 hours for a group, need to play 4 hours after that to get anything done, then it takes an hour just to wrap things up for the day. The amount of time you waste in any mmo is ridiculous... and the fact that you're paying to wait is just a kick in the groin.

 

[Rofl-Mic-Lofl]

. You can steal a rare drop from your raid party, and what are the consequences? Nothing. I think if anything, MMO's strongly encourage the "I'm looking out for #1" mentality, which is an anti-social mentality.

In WoW if you steal a drop from a high-end raid, you will be kicked out of your guild, and you will not be accepted into another one in that server more than likely. MMOs are all about teamwork, you miss out on most of the game unless you are in a good guild, which requires helping people and giving some drops/gold to the guild bank.

 

[Iria]

dopamine processing is all about the brain's reward mechanism... you do something that jives with your brain chemistry, so your brain releases dopamine as a reward to keep you doing it... sex and masturbation work in exactly the same way and there are people addicted to both...

any behavior that pleases you will be rewarded with dopamine... as far as drugs like marijuana, thats a mechanism for excessive artificial dopamine production designed to fool your brain, less related to the act of aquiring and smoking the drug than the actual dopamine flooding that it causes on the brain... the flooding is unnatural and not regulated by the brain (unlike the reward mechanism which is) ... so there is your differences...

for added contrast, falling in love (finding a suitable mate) and chocolate both cause dopamine to be generated in excess of normal conditions, but one is regulated by the brain and the other is an artificial chemical reaction, and both have generated addicts looking for a rush like crazed hamsers solving mazes for their proverbial dopamine pellet.

so, by accessing dopamine, your brain is litteraly training you with treats and rewards like you train your dogs and hamsters... and excessive artificial stimulation of dopamine production is the equivilant of tipping over the treats bag.

 

[Niko084]

I played EQ for 5+years also, then moved onto WoW for another 1.5 years. I Prolly have 500+ days played and dont regret any of them. I actually saved so much money versus blowing 50-100 bucks a night at a nightclub.

I have held the same job for 11 years and enjoyed all of the online friends I met. How many hours a day do you mmorpg player haters spend watching TV???

Non, I run two companies with another guy, and am looking for a full time job, I havn't turned on my TV in about ohh 6-7 months, and when I'm not working, I am generally working on my car.

 

[Niko084]

In WoW if you steal a drop from a high-end raid, you will be kicked out of your guild, and you will not be accepted into another one in that server more than likely. MMOs are all about teamwork, you miss out on most of the game unless you are in a good guild, which requires helping people and giving some drops/gold to the guild bank.

Too bad so many people don't believe in it the same way and they will stab everyone in the back for it. And every other guild out there will pick someone up because they don't know, and even if they do they don't care because it wont happen to them, or they need that person because they are a skilled player....


Just an add on here...
"EBAY BUYERS"
Why would you pay to play a game, and then buy items for the game with real cash, so you don't have to play the game?

 

[Technoob]

I gained 40 pounds over a year of playing wow. Very Very good for me I have to say.

/quit

 

[Technoob]

Why would you pay to play a game, and then buy items for the game with real cash, so you don't have to play the game?

Imagine if you enjoyed playing counterstrike, just to use an example from another genre. What if when you started, you could only use pistols, and it would take you 4-5 months before you could use the guns that everyone else is using against you. If you really liked the game and wanted to skip ahead to where you could be competitive, would that be worth it to you?

In wow you can buy 2 years worth of playtime and join at the top of the game by ebaying. I wouldn't buy (I sold), but I can see why someone would buy my epiced out account with 6 level 60 characters.

 

[Niko084]

Imagine if you enjoyed playing counterstrike, just to use an example from another genre. What if when you started, you could only use pistols, and it would take you 4-5 months before you could use the guns that everyone else is using against you. If you really liked the game and wanted to skip ahead to where you could be competitive, would that be worth it to you?

In wow you can buy 2 years worth of playtime and join at the top of the game by ebaying. I wouldn't buy (I sold), but I can see why someone would buy my epiced out account with 6 level 60 characters.

I know I sell stuff in Ultima Online also, I play across 6 servers, and belong to large guilds. So I fully understand the reasoning for doing it, I just saw that line in a comic strip, and I thought it was kinda funny

 

[bob]

my main thing with this was always, who cares?

If someone can sit on a computer for 20 hours a day, not harm himself, or anyone else, and can survive happily, then who gives a shit? Let 'em be.

Agreed

 

[Bob002]

Out of all the things I enjoy , WoW is the least expensive, by far.


I like to 4wheel with my jeep.

I paid 7k for my jeep (and I got a VERY good deal on it.)

I've not bought anything for it (I bought it locked, lifted, geared, et al), but let's say I bought a stock jeep.

I found a jeep within 300 miles of me that's similar to my jeep. This is an 01 (I have a 97 that bought around 01, so I went with same approximate age). It does have quite a few less miles, but for this argument, that's neglible.

Price of Jeep - 10k
3.5 inch lift kit - 900 (plus potential installation fees)
Tires - 700
Rims - 100
Regearing for tires - 1200

that's 12,900 for a base lifted jeep. There are still some things missing that are considered "must haves" and those are another couple grand easily. That also doesn't include if I break anything and have to replace it.

I could play WoW for 71 years at that rate. Or drinking. I know many people in this town who drink to excess constantly. Hell, 3 drinks is an easy 15 bucks, not including tip. I'd much rather spend my money playing WoW.

 

[finalgt]

There are so many fallacies in that argument that I'm not even going to bother.

 

[Bob002]

There are so many fallacies in that argument that I'm not even going to bother.

No, there isn't. I can break it down more if you'd like to give you an exact itemized list if you'd like.

All prices I used are prices I either A) looked up as I wrote it, or B) know to be general approximations.

Black Rockcrawler rims are ~25 each.

Goodyear Wrangler MT/Rs in 35/12.5 R 15 are ~220 at Walmart. 5x220 is 1100.

Rubicon Express 3.5 inch short arm lift kit is 879.

A good set of quality gears for front and rear will run you ~150 an axle, not counting a locker OR installation. And R&P is not something for every shadetree mechanic to do. I might be a *little* high, but either way, for arguments sake, it's negligible once again.

Now, this will get you around for some pretty decent obstacles, certainly. But, once again, you break something, you do have to replace it. Or what if you want to upgrade from there? Atlas t-case is 1800-2000. Bigger axles, plus brackets, etc will run you another 3k-4k.

Do I have *all* of this on my jeep? No, but I do have most all the stuff I have priced out. My point was it's cheaper than a lot of other hobbies. What about paintballing? Most people I know heavy into that are paying 600-1k for a good gun. That doesn't include buying paintballs, paying an entry fee, or misc other equipment.

My point was that WoW (even as a hobby) is quite a bit cheaper than a lot of other hobbies.

So, if you want to say there are fallacies in my argument, feel free to back up what you say.

 

[finalgt]

Okay, let's start with the major one. You're basically stating that the enjoyment you derive from your Jeep is exactly equal to the enjoyment you derive from WoW. Which is all good and fine, but you're also implying that this is true for everybody...which you can't possibly know, since enjoyment is determined on an individual basis, obviously. I'm not disputing the numbers, I'm disputing that the numbers represent some universal absolute enjoyment factor.

And I also think that if playing a videogame is as much fun as driving your $7k Jeep, then you wasted your money and should have bought a moped.

 

[xdkimx]

^ hahaha obviously we are rationalizing at different levels here bob and finalgt ;D

 

[Bob002]

Okay, let's start with the major one. You're basically stating that the enjoyment you derive from your Jeep is exactly equal to the enjoyment you derive from WoW. Which is all good and fine, but you're also implying that this is true for everybody...which you can't possibly know, since enjoyment is determined on an individual basis, obviously. I'm not disputing the numbers, I'm disputing that the numbers represent some universal absolute enjoyment factor.

And I also think that if playing a videogame is as much fun as driving your $7k Jeep, then you wasted your money and should have bought a moped.

I would actually say that I enjoy them at a nearly equal level, but for entirely different reasons. I find doing content that not every other player in the game is able to do extremely enjoyable. I find interacting with people that I would probably otherwise NEVER interact with enjoyable.

I find my jeep about the same level of enjoyment.

And I wasn't stating for everyone, simply myself and the pleasure I get from it.

 

[finalgt]

And I'm aware of that, but the implication in your message is that, as far as hobbies go, WoW is inexpensive, at least when it comes to capital expenditure. Which is true, there are a good plenty hobbies that are more expensive than WoW. So, I've got two problems:

1) Since when is money the only factor? There are plenty of more expensive hobbies, true, but they exist because there are people with enough disposable income to enjoy them. I enjoy snowboarding, but my board setup cost me $900, plus the average $50 a day I have to pay for lift tickets whenever I do go snowboarding. And yet, I won't lay out the $15 a month for WoW...personal preference, of course.
2) You're not actually interacting with anybody in WoW. You're living in a pretend world, where you pretend a bunch of people you've never met and probably never will meet (except in rare circumstances, in which the two people in question are usually desperate for human contact in the first place) are your friends. I'm an antisocial geek, but I don't need to pretend to be hot stuff in a videogame to boost my self-esteem. (This is the part where you can turn my argument on me and say that just because something is true for me doesn't make it true for everybody, which underlines the disparity in our viewpoints and reinforces the idea that nobody ever argued an idea so well on the internet that the other camp just up and agreed with them)