mITX/mATX gaming rig

[koth]

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Gaming: D3, SC2, Simcity(Release 2013), BF2
2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
$1000 - $1200. Tax, shipping included
3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.
CA, San Diego (1.5hr drive to MC Tustin)
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
CPU, RAM, Case, Optical drive, GPU, PSU, Cooling
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
M4 128GB
6) Will you be overclocking?
yes
7) 7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
1080p, 42in or 22in
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
This week
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.
nothing special. will not SLI or Crossfire.
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If so, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
64bit windows

 

[bastage]

At 1080p you should be fine with a 6870 & the xfx 6870 2gb that is on sale for 168 AR is VERY small form factor friendly. Would actually allow you to drop to a Lian Li Q11 with room to spare. Overclocking in a mITX can be done, but is probably not worth the extra heat in a tiny box. And Intel's stock cooler is pretty damn quiet & compact.

Also I was able to play the d3 Betta at 1920x1200 with everything maxed with no issues with that same 6870 on a Phenom II x4 955 @ 3.7Ghz. So for your needs I Imagine it will be fine. Also do you plan on the SSD being your only drive? If so with 2 Blizzard titles on there you may want to step up to a 256gb just to be sure your not going to outgrow it any time soon.

 

[koth]

At 1080p you should be fine with a 6870 & the xfx 6870 2gb that is on sale for 168 AR is VERY small form factor friendly. Would actually allow you to drop to a Lian Li Q11 with room to spare. Overclocking in a mITX can be done, but is probably not worth the extra heat in a tiny box. And Intel's stock cooler is pretty damn quiet & compact.

Thanks for the recommandation. So you are saying that since i am going to build a mITX rig, don't bother with OC because of the heat? With that in mind, i should properly just go with a non-k cpu and H77 or H68 to save some money. I think I maybe able to build a cheaper rig and i definitely love the idea of having a quieter rig! I am eyeing on the P8Z77-I Deluxe but it would be a waste if i a get a H77 mobo and not OCing

What about a case like Lian-Li v354? do you think that will be enough room for venting the heat from OC? v354 is a mATX case which is still within the size I want. And as of this moment, i am still leaning toward to v354 + a mATX board because seem like there are more option for a mATX than a mITX board.

Also I was able to play the d3 Betta at 1920x1200 with everything maxed with no issues with that same 6870 on a Phenom II x4 955 @ 3.7Ghz. So for your needs I Imagine it will be fine. Also do you plan on the SSD being your only drive? If so with 2 Blizzard titles on there you may want to step up to a 256gb just to be sure your not going to outgrow it any time soon.

i was planning to use SSD as my own drive for now as the HDD are very expensive and i think i can get away with it for now. I am planning to add a 1T when the price become more reasonable.

 

[bastage]

The v354 would be much more likely to OC fine then any of the mITX cases. Givent he dimensions you are looking for its probably the biggest you will get (though its bigger then what you said in 2 dimensions). So How hard of a line are the dimensions you said. & are you taking into account the extra couple inches needed at the back for the cables?

Edit: Just looking into the v354 I think ti would be a very cool running machine at stock, but the only cooling option worth a damn would be a corsair H series & that take a fair bit of work & has to be mounted low & in the front. That also cuts into the video card length. May want to consider foregoing the more expensive OC components in favor of a 2600 (non K) maybe.

 

[koth]

The v354 would be much more likely to OC fine then any of the mITX cases. Givent he dimensions you are looking for its probably the biggest you will get (though its bigger then what you said in 2 dimensions). So How hard of a line are the dimensions you said. & are you taking into account the extra couple inches needed at the back for the cables?

v354 is (W) 245mm x (H) 320mm x (D) 420mm (quoted) = 9.7"x 12.5" x 16.5"; the depth is ok even if it is a bit longer but the width and height is fixed; cannot be more than 13 inch. I have already taken into account the extra space needed at the back for the cables.

Edit: Just looking into the v354 I think ti would be a very cool running machine at stock, but the only cooling option worth a damn would be a corsair H series & that take a fair bit of work & has to be mounted low & in the front. That also cuts into the video card length. May want to consider foregoing the more expensive OC components in favor of a 2600 (non K) maybe.

I understand this limitation that H60 might be the only cooler I can fitted into the v354 for OC. I am totally flexible and ok with no OC-ing because of this limitation. From what i read from the other post(He has a MSI Twin Frozr which is a bit short than 10"), having a H60 at the lower front will leave roughly 12inch for the GPU even with a pull/push. I think I should be able to get away with it unless I am missing something obvious...

 

[bastage]

Well.. That looks like a mess to me. The h80 is probably a much better option then the h60 though it will take a little more of the room out of the front. The Lian Li PSU Extender could also be used to make a little more clean of a job there (sticks the PSU out the back of the case about an inch & a half & then if you use a right angle plug for it the large video connections are normally about the same depth).

I also believe that you can fit a h60 in a Q11 given the right PSU setup.. Basically the PSU extender with the silverstone SFX. That would nearly remove the PSU from the case. And then with a 140mm to 120mm adapter the cooler would get more then enough airflow.

here is the q11 qith a gigabyte 6850 card (it was fairly long) and a full size atx PSU.

Basically the reason I keep circleing back to the Q11 is that if your not going to OC then there is no advantage in what your looking for in the mATX. And since size is some concearn the mITX will be that much better.

 

[koth]

Well.. That looks like a mess to me. The h80 is probably a much better option then the h60 though it will take a little more of the room out of the front. The Lian Li PSU Extender could also be used to make a little more clean of a job there (sticks the PSU out the back of the case about an inch & a half & then if you use a right angle plug for it the large video connections are normally about the same depth).

I also believe that you can fit a h60 in a Q11 given the right PSU setup.. Basically the PSU extender with the silverstone SFX. That would nearly remove the PSU from the case. And then with a 140mm to 120mm adapter the cooler would get more then enough airflow.

here is the q11 qith a gigabyte 6850 card (it was fairly long) and a full size atx PSU.

Basically the reason I keep circleing back to the Q11 is that if your not going to OC then there is no advantage in what your looking for in the mATX. And since size is some concearn the mITX will be that much better.

ok, i will keep q11 in mind. Now we just need a quality mITX board

 

[bastage]

100 - LIAN LI PC-Q11B
100 - ASRock H77M-ITX LGA 1155
300 - Intel Core i7-2600
110 - CORSAIR XMS3 16GB (2 x 8GB)
300 - Crucial M4 2.5" 256GB
220 - XFX HD-687X-CNFC Radeon HD 6870 2GB
70 - SILVERSTONE ST45SF 450W SFX

$1,220.72 shipped total from newegg.

That wasn't really searching for values at all. It was just slapping the best I knew would fit off the top of my head..

 

[Dangman]

I'd still wait for the Z77 Asus MITX mobo and see what it brings to the table.

 

[bastage]

I'd still wait for the Z77 Asus MITX mobo and see what it brings to the table.

If Overclocking is off the table then why wait for the asus Z77?

Plus given that the Asrock Z77 is 150 the asus will be 170+

 

[Dangman]

I'm still concerned about the quality of that AsRock Z68 mITX. In addition, the warranty is a bit short compared to Asus.

Though that I think about it, he should be fine with a solid H61 mITX motherboard.

 

[bastage]

I'm still concerned about the quality of that AsRock Z68 mITX. In addition, the warranty is a bit short compared to Asus.

Though that I think about it, he should be fine with a solid H61 mITX motherboard.

Uhmm.. What I linked was an Asrock H77 with a 3 year warranty. That match's Asus's warranty doesn't it? Also I have no question as to the Quality of Asrock compared to Asus.. I mean its the same brand in the end..

 

[Dangman]

Uhmm.. What I linked was an Asrock H77 with a 3 year warranty. That match's Asus's warranty doesn't it?

And thats why I shouldn't post before my morning coffee. My mistake.

Also I have no question as to the Quality of Asrock compared to Asus.. I mean its the same brand in the end..

They're not. They're separate brands and companies at this point in time with different design/engineering teams and such. While AsRock can make good mobos, they seem to be rather inconsistent with quality.

 

[bastage]

And thats why I shouldn't post before my morning coffee. My mistake.

Lol.. there is a guy on my help desk at work that is the same way.. I just avoid him for the 1st hour of his shift each day if I have anything important.

They're not. They're separate brands and companies at this point in time with different design/engineering teams and such. While AsRock can make good mobos, they seem to be rather inconsistent with quality.

Really.. I hadn't heard or read anything on them being separate. Last I heard Asrock was a lower end branch like Ford is to Lincoln.

 

[Dangman]

Lol.. there is a guy on my help desk at work that is the same way.. I just avoid him for the 1st hour of his shift each day if I have anything important.

LOL!

Really.. I hadn't heard or read anything on them being separate. Last I heard Asrock was a lower end branch like Ford is to Lincoln.

IIRC, AsRock is owned by Pegatron which was originally created by Asus. This quote better explains it I think:

Actually, in a way Asus still owns Pegatron (and thus ASRock). It's just that a different unit of the Asus group owns Pegatron. Thus, Asus still indirectly owns Pegatron (and thus ASRock).

And being in the same unit as Pegatron, it's not surprising that recent ASRock motherboards began to miss the mark as enthusiast motherboards, much like Intel-branded motherboards. Pegatron, like whomever OEMs for Intel, manufactures motherboards for big-name OEMs with little to no tweakability in their settings. That could explain why their recent boards haven't done very well in reviews.

 

[bastage]

Gotcha.. The way I read it.. Specifically the 2nd paragraph is that your not going to get the highest tweak-ability out of them (just like intel boards), but there is nothing derogatory said about stability. If it was meant to be a OC build however I would have also steered clear of Asrock and pretty much nailed down an Asus since they have been in my experience the best overclocking boards since Abit went bubuy.

 

[koth]

Thank you guys~ being away from the building my own PC for almost 8 years, it is amazed how much I can learn from this forum in a month!

If Overclocking is off the table then why wait for the asus Z77?

I am still hoping this is not completely off the table...i still think about the v354 and mATX idea alot... please don't yell at me... please...

Lol.. there is a guy on my help desk at work that is the same way.. I just avoid him for the 1st hour of his shift each day if I have anything important.

we had a engineer in our group that better avoid until lunch because he is grumpy when hungry... I have no idea why he didn't eat breakfast in the morning.

I will bump this thread again in a wk or when IB reviews are out. Thanks again bastage and Denny

 

[koth]

Though that I think about it, he should be fine with a solid H61 mITX motherboard.

Hi Danny, I was research on the H61 feature: the H61 do not come with SATA 6Gb/s; do you think this will be a problem?

 

[Dangman]

It's only a problem if you're planning on using SSDs. And even then only if you want the max amount of read and write speeds possible.

Oh and it looks like you might be sticking with SB: IB isn't that impressive sadly. So if IB CPUs aren't out when you're buying the parts for the PC, go for SB CPUs.

Speaking of which: for your usage, no reason to get the i7 2600. You should be fine with the Core i5 2400. Use the $110 in savings towards a faster GPU, a SSD, a better case, or better PSU.

 

[koth]

Oh and it looks like you might be sticking with SB: IB isn't that impressive sadly. So if IB CPUs aren't out when you're buying the parts for the PC, go for SB CPUs.

I am reading this comment all over places also saying IB CPU are only so so, and really bad with OC. Is that what you are reading also?

Speaking of which: for your usage, no reason to get the i7 2600. You should be fine with the Core i5 2400. Use the $110 in savings towards a faster GPU, a SSD, a better case, or better PSU.

I am thinking about this also; seem like it is ether a 2500k for OC or 2400 now

 

[Dangman]

I am reading this comment all over places also saying IB CPU are only so so, and really bad with OC. Is that what you are reading also?

More or less.

I am thinking about this also; seem like it is ether a 2500k for OC or 2400 now

Do note that if you want to OC, you will need a Z68 or Z77 motherboard

 

[bastage]

The reason I spec'd a 2600 in there was based on essentially maxing out a tiny case.. The extra money spent on GPU or PSU would be a waste either way as neither would fit.

There are still allot of variables here such as OP nailing down what case. Given that OC'ing has been brought up many many times, but the OP's apparent chosen case is so so at best with modifications for overclocking.

I think OP needs to decide weather or not he is going to try to risk overclocking with the minimal airflow.. if not the money saved stepping down in mobo & cpu make the cost difference to step up to the 2600.

 

[happyboy]

Hmm. If you truely want a mITX build and want to also game, my vote would be one of them Shuttle barebones. All you need to buy is a CPU and a GPU of your choice. I suggest getting an i7 2600 as overclocking would be out of the question for the Shuttle barebones. I would also drop a 7970 into that Shuttle and you would get one hell of a gaming machine from a super small rig. All of this would probably amount to $1000 or maybe even less.

 

[koth]

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Gaming: D3, SC2, Simcity(Release 2013), BF2
2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
$1000 - $1200. Tax, shipping included
3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.
CA, San Diego (1.5hr drive to MC Tustin)
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
CPU, RAM, Case, Optical drive, GPU, PSU, Cooling
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
M4 128GB
6) Will you be overclocking?
yes
7) 7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
1080p, 42in or 22in
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
This week
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.
nothing special. will not SLI or Crossfire.
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If so, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
64bit windows

After a lot of reading and researching, I have give up the idea of OC in a SG08. It comes down to 3 config that I have in mind; which config fo you think will give me the bigger bang for the buck?

A) TJ-08E OC /w 3570k
$279 3570K + GA-Z77X-D3H @ MC
$100 TJ-08E @ Amazon
$90 CMPSU-650TXV2 @ Amazon
$25 212+ @ Amazon
$96 - 2 x G.Skill Sniper F3-12800CL9D-8GBSR 2 x 4GB DDR3 1600 RAM
+ GPU (680? 7950?)

B) TJ-08E OC /w 2500k
$240 2500K + ASUS P8Z68-M PRO @ MC
$100 TJ-08E @ Amazon
$90 CMPSU-650TXV2 @ Amazon
$25 212+ @ Amazon
~$90 16GB 1333 RAM @ Amazon (need recommandation)
+ GPU (680? 7950?)

C) SG08 non-OC
$160/$205 3450 @ MC/Amazon
$100 ASRock H77M-ITX @ NewEgg
$200 SG08 @ Amazon
$47 - Corsair Vengeance Blue 8 GB @ Amazon
+ GPU
+ PSU included

I still haven't decide on the GPU. Is there a sweet spot for the money I am going to spend on the the GPU? 560Ti? GTX680? 7950? I don't mind overkilling for the GPU a bit so that I have room for any games that coming in the future but I not going to get crazy on the card.

 

[Dangman]

Option A won't work because that Gigabyte mobo is an ATX mobo. The TJ08B-E is a mATX case.

However I'd start with Option A but with a different mobo:
http://www.amazon.com/Gigabyte-LGA1...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1335827399&sr=1-1

CPU wise, Tigerdirect doesn't charge tax on CA residents and they're selling the 3570K at a reasonable $230:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpN=2373004&sku=I69-3570K

For both option A and B:

1) The drive to Microcenter really isn't worth IMO. It's a 3 hour round trip and I'm betting you're not factoring in possible traffic (it is Southern California). Then there's the sales tax and the more than likely chance of you spending roughly at least an hour at MC looking for the part, standing in line for checkout, and possibly wandering around. So your actual savings is $90 minus gas, sales tax, and a 5 to 6 hour round trip. So to save time and effort, I'd recommend buying the CPU and mobo from Amazon or Tigerdirect as with the rest of the parts.

2) Consideirng the games you're planning on playing, really no point for the GTX 680. The sweet spot at the moment IMO is this $230 HD 6950 card:
$220 - Sapphire 100312-3L Radeon HD 6950 2GB

If you still want to spend more money or plan on playing higher-end games like BF3 or Skyrim, the HD 7950 is a fine choice. But that HD 6950 2GB should be more than enough for the games you've mentioned.

3) I recommend swapping out the Corsair PSU for a modular PSU since that'll help immensely with the cable management in a mATX case:
$90 - SeaSonic M12II 620 Bronze 620W Modular PSU

4) I recommend two of this RAM:
$40 - Corsair CMV8GX3M2A1333C9 2 x 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM

 

[koth]

3) I recommend swapping out the Corsair PSU for a modular PSU since that'll help immensely with the cable management in a mATX case:
$90 - SeaSonic M12II 620 Bronze 620W Modular PSU

ops...

Right now, there's a Shell Shocker deal for this Seasonic built Antec Neo Eco 620C 620@ for $55 shipped:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371031

RevolvingSheep, buy the above PSU TODAY!. It's simply one of the best deals you'll see for a solid PSU.

It also has a rebate to make it $35! It really is a must buy for anyone building soon that needs a reasonably priced PSU.

I have jump into this once I read Danny's and Prav's comment

 

[Prav]

Great deal on the Neo Eco but it isn't modular and the cables are reportedly very stiff. Probably not the best for mATX

 

[Dangman]

Pretty much what Prav said. Good PSU but gonna be harder to cable manage and such.

 

[koth]

Great deal on the Neo Eco but it isn't modular and the cables are reportedly very stiff. Probably not the best for mATX

Pretty much what Prav said. Good PSU but gonna be harder to cable manage and such.

Thanks guys, trying to cancel that order now.

Any thoughts on the SG08 non-oc vs TJ-08-e OC?

 

[Prav]

This a a good price for a modular seasonic based unit. Not sure if they charge tax to CA though
$65 Antec HCG-620M 620W Modular 80PLUS

 

[koth]

This a a good price for a modular seasonic based unit. Not sure if they charge tax to CA though
$65 Antec HCG-620M 620W Modular 80PLUS

Yes, they do charged tax in CA =| I am relying on Amazon and TargetDirect for parts unless it is such a good deal that i shouldn't pass (like the PSU i just brought =D btw, they accepted my order cancellation already)

 

[Dangman]

Any thoughts on the SG08 non-oc vs TJ-08-e OC?

I'd rather have the overclock capability than really small size. Also I dislike the SG08 build due to the AsRock mobo: I don't trust AsRock.

 

[tiraides]

Any thoughts on the SG08 non-oc vs TJ-08-e OC?

Having had both the SG08 (which I currently have) and the TJ08 (OK, I had the first-gen model, but I made it work... somewhat...), it really comes down to portability (SG08) versus overclockability (TJ08).

Pick one, as you can't (really) have both.

 

[koth]

That's defiantly my problem. I really want to have them both...

 

[koth]

Ok. i have made up my mind. No SG08. mATX with TJ08 it is.

Guys, can you recommend something for me for 1 last time? i am going to buy it this week.

I already got the follow:
M4 SSD - TigerDirect deal
6950 2GB - NewEgg deal

I will get
$65 + tax - Antec HCG-620M 620W Modular 80PLUS @ NCIS
$100 - TJ-08B-E @ Amazon
$25 - 212+ @ Amazon
$130 - GA-Z77MX-D3H @ Amazon
$230 - 3570K @ TigerDirect
$20 - DVD @ Amazon
? - 16GB 1600 Ram (Need recommendation for RAM please. Is there any good RAM from Amazon or TigerDirect i can get or should i just take the hit and get it from NewEgg?

Do you think I need extra fan for the case to OC under 4.5ghz? Maybe another 120 at the back to pull? Any recommendation for fans?

 

[Prav]

Is there any good RAM from Amazon or TigerDirect i can get or should i just take the hit and get it from NewEgg?

$23 Samsung Extreme Low Voltage 4GB (Single) DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) MV-3V4G3

This is very good ram if you are comfortable tweaking settings. Kits are out of stock but single stick are available, just grab 4.
edit: Also available at TigerDirect $25 ea

 

[koth]

$23 Samsung Extreme Low Voltage 4GB (Single) DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) MV-3V4G3

This is very good ram if you are comfortable tweaking settings. Kits are out of stock but single stick are available, just grab 4.
edit: Also available at TigerDirect $25 ea

I am comfortable with tweaking settings, just need some direction to start

 

[Prav]

I am comfortable with tweaking settings, just need some direction to start

Try this thread about that RAM http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...R3-capable-of-2400MHz.-Perfect-for-SFF-builds. there are plenty of successful timings posted on various builds. I would personally use something like 1866 9-9-9-27-1T 1.5V for a quad set up but I wouldn't want to push them too hard. Many users are seeing 2133+ at 1.5ish voltages

edit: if you buy on Amazon, I would buy the ones sold directly from Amazon for 50 cents more

 

[koth]

Try this thread about that RAM http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...R3-capable-of-2400MHz.-Perfect-for-SFF-builds. there are plenty of successful timings posted on various builds. I would personally use something like 1866 9-9-9-27-1T 1.5V but I wouldnt want to push them too hard

Thanks, just order 4 stick from tigerdirect. Will go through the post tomorrow to learn about tweaking the ram

 

[Prav]

Really interested in seeing how your mATX build turns out since I am looking forward to building one this summer and you are picking many of the parts I have my eye on. I cant wait to see the results!