Minority Game Devs Needed?

[Tazman2]

Yet there is ONLY 2% of white people playing most sports here in America. Yet NOBODY says anything. One way racism is a bitch.....

 

[WhyYouLoveMe]

I think that this is being blown out of proportion. A few quick responses:

Gender diversity -- They did not leave gender diversity out of the equation. Women in game development is a highly emphasized and widely attended portion of the GDC. The article is pointing out another form of diversity, not ignoring gender diversity. From the article itself: "For a long time, we've talked in the game industry about gender diversity as the one problem on the radar, but the racial split is worse,"

Minority role models -- When I read the article, I don't see anyone saying that we need more minority characters in video games. We need less stereotypical minority characters in video games. Going back to the gender diversity issue, the crux of the problem isn't that we don't have enough minority developers or minority characters.

Minority game designers/Minority game appeal -- That's not what the gender diversity issue really is about either. The gender diversity issue is about writing games that appeal to women. The most offensive game I ever played was some fps where I was Chinese and picking up fortune cookies to gain health! That isn't a game that reaches out and grabs the asian gaming audience, it pushes them away. The example in GTA provided does not demonstrate the issue as well, but left to their own devices, almost every black character you see is going to be some breakdancing thug. Go look at some fighting games.

Character designer: Oh, we need a native american! Let's see, we'll put a headdress on him, stick featherse everywhere, have him wear a loincloth, put teepees in his background stage. done!

Many parallels can be drawn to hollywood, who went through these same issues with varying degrees of success.

Asian developers -- Asians are something like 4% of the USA population, and I have a suspicion that we're overly represented already. This doesn't even take into account overseas developers.

Dude... that was just beautiful. Rational thinking... it's a beautiful thing!

 

[Some Llama]

So I am kinda of at a loss as to what is the problem/solution needed here (if there even is one).

Is the problem that there aren't enough different flavors of ethnicity in reagards to the people who are hired in game development?

Or are they trying to say that there is an external force keeping "minorities" from doing these jobs?



So there are more "caucasian" (stop calling me white, I am not a color) Game devs than any other ethnicity, why is this a bad thing?

Is society as a whole being harmed because the "correct" mix of skin color isn't represented?

Why is someone's qualifications for a job less important than the color of their skin?

This article is about games but I think it relates to all aspects of American life, why should I lose a spot in a good college to someone with lower grades than me because I am not the right color? The same goes for a good job..

As we continue to make ethnicity the issue, ethnicity will continue to be the issue, you cannot give preferencial treatment to one ethnicity without detracting from another.

I think the only way to make the "Races" equal is to level the playing field and base these types of decisions on who is qualified for the job, stop crying foul when the statistics don't support your idea of fair, and don't try and give an advantage to those who might be less qualified.


If there is an actual case of discrimination, we already have laws and solutions to resolve that type of situation.


SOS said:
"Interesting…one of my poignant racial slurs was censored, but not the others.
Hmmm…."

This is the crux of my point.. by "protecting" one ethnicity, we discriminate against the rest... ban all racial slurs, or none...

My 2 cents..

PS I wanted to add that I think it's a great idea to point out worthy articles that are ripe for discussion and then link them from the front page to the forums so we can discuss, often times I have thought "I wonder what the other Hardocpers think about this".

Kudos steve...

 

[WhyYouLoveMe]

Not so funny because Asians, as a stereotyped group, are more inclined to take their legal equality and DO something with it. Those people you speak of who feed on racial seperation, anger, and fear have too little to work with for them.

How many Asians do you know have singing careers whose principle focus is being oppressed 'by the man'? How many Asians do you know that are happy to live off the welfare system and whine on the TV demanding reperations for various things their ancestors suffered?

The 'leaders' of which you speak are selling fear. And you can't sell a product when people aren't buying.

Amen!!

 

[Obi_Kwiet]

I know! We should go beat up a bunch of black people and force them to make games! Why don't we quit obsessing about which race does what, and follow Martin Luther King Jr.'s advise?

Many people think equality means forcing proportional numbers of races into doing the same things. It's not. It's about equal opportunity. People who think otherwise are politically correct idiots.

 

[Lamont]

It's not the game industry's fault at all. It's a social problem within the minority community(s). So it's not like the industry is locking people out. It's just "not attractive" to many minority communities.

If you grow up in an area where your only "ticket out" is through basketball or football, then that's a problem. My mother said it was just a fad, I should play it safe and join the Military or be a doctor. I consider being a doctor my "back-up" plan .

It's a respect thing too. If I went home an NBA Allstar, NFL player or a college player, even a rapper/singer I'd get more respect. But I just do this "geeky whiteboy" job. Oh well have fun living with your mom I say. It's the fear of knowlege, or fear of showing knowlege some people have, and I've already alienated myself from "friends" and even some relatives for being where I am today. I don't give a crap, but that's pretty much what happens.

The game indsutry doesn't have to do anything. It's the parents of kids to let them know that there's a lot more out there than what the schools say. Now that every freakin' college has a "Game Dev" course, I am sure things will change.

 

[black_b[ ]x]

"If you've got kids who can sit in front of a game for eight hours, then they have the cognitive thought process to learn how to build the game," Saulter said

I found this comment quite amusing. Anyway, notice how they jump right in with the "stereotypical black character" spiel. If anything, video games have traditionally been pretty neutral in that they show whites in both the hero and villain role. Its not like they always show the black or hispanic guy as the enemy.

 

[Schmave]

I found this comment quite amusing. Anyway, notice how they jump right in with the "stereotypical black character" spiel. If anything, video games have traditionally been pretty neutral in that they show whites in both the hero and villain role. Its not like they always show the black or hispanic guy as the enemy.

I found that quote amusing as well. It seems to me that whenever I play video games for 8 hours straight I feel a lot dumber afterwards.

I also found it interesting that the article talks about racial stereotypes and then goes on to stereotype game developers as "a bunch of nerdy white guys" .

While I am white, I agree 100% with Lamont's comments. Your attitude in life is the biggest contributor to your success or failure.

 

[[Ammo]]

My dev. team consists of four Americans, two of which are white and two are Asian; everyone else is from all over the globe. The rest of the company is similarly distributed. I do not believe my company is too far off the norm when it comes to its hiring standards - if you can do your job, do it well, and do it late into the night, then you're hired regardless of race, gender, religion, age, etc., which is also mandated by law. We even have females :gasp:: around here. In addition to that, I have yet to hear of anyone have a problem with anybody's race, gender, religion, etc. Most people enjoy it because if its a chance to learn about different cultures directly. Although, now that I think about it, the Swedes seem a bit off from the norm, but I suppose if lived in Sweden I might be too.

So, in the end, I'd like to believe the industry should not be blamed for any perceived lack of diversity.

 

[Techx]

how about we need more white basketball players.. someone go f'in rally about the inequality in that...

 

[Aelfgeft]

As long as they crank out good games, who the fuck cares what color their skin is?

Obviously, certain companies are already hiring crackerjack hackers who are producing from places like Blizzard and Rockstar and Raven and Lucasarts...if ones more political group starts tainting the gaming industry I swear to god it's time to make our own lobby.

 

[msde]

So I am kinda of at a loss as to what is the problem/solution needed here (if there even is one).

I found this comment quite amusing. Anyway, notice how they jump right in with the "stereotypical black character" spiel. If anything, video games have traditionally been pretty neutral in that they show whites in both the hero and villain role. Its not like they always show the black or hispanic guy as the enemy.

It's not a matter of good guys or bad guys, it's stereotypes and marketing. The (imperfect) premise is that the best person to create a game that minorities will buy is a game with a minority game designer or creative consultant. Black hero, black villain, they probably both wear lots of bling and quote 5 year old snoop dogg. Obviously not every game is this bad, but the issue exists. You may not need to add a black game designer to solve the problem, but raising the awareness of the issue can't hurt.

The gaming industry is going to plateau fast if it can't be more inclusive. A recent Game Developer article grabbed 5 gamer girls off the street, and forced them to play (I think) Halo, Warcraft 3, Half Life 2, and 2 other games. All 5 of them said that they like the games, but had ignored them until now because silicone-enhanced advertising made them assume they wouldn't like the game.

An example:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/downloads/wallpapers/wallpaper12.html

This doesn't make women buy the game. Women buy the game despite seeing the ad.
Same issue, different target audience. The people writing the article aren't complaining that they can't get a job.

found some of the original articles I'm desperately trying to recall. Most deal with the gender and not the race issue, but the parallels are what I'm trying to get across. The article has nothing to do with "the man" keeping black programmers from getting a job.

http://www.gamasutra.com/features/designers_notebook/19980213.htm
http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20030827/adams_pfv.htm
http://www.gamegirladvance.com/arch...ures_in_character_designs_for_videogames.html
http://www.gamegirladvance.com/archives/2005/02/03/the_woman_track_gdc_2005.html
http://www.wirednews.com/news/games/0,2101,59620,00.html

 

[jstnomega]

Oh puhlease! Last I checked, every man, woman & child was a monority of one. 'Group think' is 'loser think'.

QUICK! Somebody buy that poor group think loser Postal 2.

 

[Tiny]

What ever happened to highering people with the best skills?

 

[phoderpants]

I found this comment quite amusing. Anyway, notice how they jump right in with the "stereotypical black character" spiel. If anything, video games have traditionally been pretty neutral in that they show whites in both the hero and villain role. Its not like they always show the black or hispanic guy as the enemy.

damn, that was what i wanted to quote... the logic totally doesn't follow. just cause you play games, you have the tools to design them? a mentally disabled kid could sit and play mario bros for eight hours and he probably still wouldn't have the ability to code.
i read through the whole thread with that in mind, and then you went and ruined it for me!!!

 

[stiltner]

The flaw in ms's most recent post above, doesn't address the issue of developing, or the lack of, its more marketing based.
My wife loved playing the Sims, reason being, its a feelings based, sociotypical lifestyle. You create a family, you build a home. My wife is doing the same thing in real life, she can relate on that plain. Does that mean she doesn't like killing Terrorists in CS? Nope, thats where she got her feet wet. She plays L2 now with some guys we know.
The reason my wife games, is because of me I suppose. She never played games before me (ok, maybe some Super Mario Bros, but everyone been there ya know).

But as you took it on a tangent in that sense, I'll agree with you completely. Marketing is very much geared towards the 14-25 crowd. Disposable income in that age group is leaps and bounds over the elder souls. Sure, we got more money, but we also have more responsibility to consume that money, henceforth, gaming is directed at the group of people most likely to burn through cash for games as enjoyment. The last 2 games I bought were Empire Earth II, and HL2. I'll point this out for the sake of arguement, Aleyx in HL2, sexy, beautiful, if she was real, I'd be drooling :> But she was also brilliantly cast in her role, talented, and always felt like she was part of the action. She could do it alone, she could team up. Valve and its script writers did an excellent job placing the character into the game, and casting her in a way that made her the quintesential (sp?) female role. Before her, you're right, it was all about boobs and bare skin.

Regardless, we're straying so far from the original topic. But its starting to hash out as being a sensible view overall I think. We all tend to agree that the article was written not to draw attention, but to be a foot in the door to a larger plan later down the road. When attention is draw to the next GTA, and the person in that, if the main character is black, its gonna be claimed stereotypical, if he's white, its gonna be claimed as being a shot in the gut of the minority crowd. How about we let Rockstar just fix that problem and make the next main character a big, pink, bunny rabbit. Would that mean they are showing favortisim towards the big pink bunnys? I'm sure thats how it'd be spun by those who use fear as their weapon and ignorance as their tool of instruction.
As they say, you're damned if ya do, you're damned if ya don't. Rockstar despite all their praise, is the target of hatred by a bunch of pussy suits with nothing better to do than infringe on my rights as an American citizen, regardless of their classification of me, I'm still a consumer and I have a right to purchase what I want. If I want to buy a porno, I can. But I can't buy a video game now w/o them fixing it for me. Thanks Washington, glad you're out there concerned about my safety and my well being, glad you're also concerned about closing those borders so we keep the bad apples out, oh wait, you're not, the borders are ok, let the nukes in, but those video games, shit man, watch out, they're gonna kill us all

 

[phoderpants]

also, i think it's funny that on the hard forum, f a n b o i gets the same treatment as the n-word. very weird. somehow i don't think they're of equal degredational(? ) or antagonistic content.

 

[msde]

The flaw in ms's most recent post above, doesn't address the issue of developing, or the lack of, its more marketing based.
My wife loved playing the Sims, reason being, its a feelings based, sociotypical lifestyle. You create a family, you build a home. My wife is doing the same thing in real life, she can relate on that plain. Does that mean she doesn't like killing Terrorists in CS? Nope, thats where she got her feet wet. She plays L2 now with some guys we know.
The reason my wife games, is because of me I suppose. She never played games before me (ok, maybe some Super Mario Bros, but everyone been there ya know).

As a side note, The Sims is held up as the biggest success story of how a development team that had an unusually large number of women in the game design process was able to translate into a high number of sales to women. Obviously, a data sample of one is not proof, just as your wife's enjoyment of CS does not mean most women like CS. However, the demographics of Sims sales gets used a LOT in these discussions.

I still believe that the topic of character design and marketing is the issue, not the tangent. I feel that reading the article in context with other recent game design articles would help give perspective on why the other obvious hot button issues are not emphasized.

Alyx is a great example of character design done right... I've heard quite a few people wish she was playable.

(copied again in case you missed it in the late edit)
http://www.gamasutra.com/features/designers_notebook/19980213.htm
http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20030827/adams_pfv.htm
http://www.gamegirladvance.com/arch...ures_in_character_designs_for_videogames.html
http://www.gamegirladvance.com/archives/2005/02/03/the_woman_track_gdc_2005.html
http://www.wirednews.com/news/games/0,2101,59620,00.html

Another example: If you're creating a game, and *either* a hero or villain looks like this:

http://www.tvacres.com/admascots_juanvaldez.htm
http://shopzone.wwe.com/Product_detail.asp?cat=cat-newreleases&productId=01-07296

you're not reaching out to hispanics, you're being a lazy designer and you might hurt your sales.

 

[vanquished]

underrepresentation of races?

here are a couple of examples

black - GTA:SA, the upcoming 50 cent game
asian - Jade empire, Ninja gaiden
white - well you tell me...

seriously...cnn has too much time on their hands. what happened to creditable journalism in the us?

 

[theelviscerator]

lets get the mind of mencino into dev somewhere!

 

[Deleted member 96510]

I wonder how many people who responded to this forum are African-American. I doubt there were too many. Most people tend to believe racial prejudice does not exist in this country anymore. Well, it does. Especially against Blacks. Most of my life as a Black man has been spent fighting stereotypes that are promoted through our media such as music, movies, TV, books and video games. And who is at the head of these media outlets? Mostly white people. Am I bashing white people? No. I'm just stating an obvious fact. The truth is our media is whitewashed. Who are we taught to look up to? Who are the super heroes we look up to? Who are our real role models? Who are the positive black role models we are exposed to? Martin Luther King is the generic answer most of us have. When people meet me I'm likened to Jay Z. I am educated and I work in IT, but people don't expect that at first sight of me. That's the main point. Anyone ever play River City Ransom, there's a gang, the Homeboys. Their names are parodies of rappers and they speak in slang.Remember DJ Boy, it had characters of different colors and blatant racism, the US solution, make them all white. The point of the article is valid. And it's not that Blacks are denied the chance to become game programmers, but that more Black youth need to be exposed to the idea of becoming a game programmer. This stems deeper than video games. And this is not about someone talking with no action. This is coming from someone who is providing this opportunity. He's taking action to institute change. Instead of everyone here flaming that this is a a bunch of minorities complaining as usual, maybe you all should be supportive and understand that for this country to be what it's supposed to be we all need to take part in every aspect of our society. I can keep going, but i'll leave it there.

 

[Lord of Shadows]

I dont really believe that games are typecasting minorities to the extent this article would have you believe.

 

[meanmodda[H]]

I belong to a real minority (maybe 1% of the population where I live) yet nothing pisses me off more then 'minorities' who whinge about not getting a fair go.
Pretty sure you can go to any country in the world and find a group of people whose main obligation in life is to whinge about how things don't add up because of their race/nationality/religion/sexuall orientation , while the rest of us simply go past that and acknowledge the fact that not everything in life meant to be easy.
Sometimes taking a few punches can change the attitude of people a lot more then endless complaint.
As for game developers ,there is still small companies being created nowdays that might focuse on a single title for years . Everyone is crying about how games lack originality nowdays. Start up your own title and make something unique , then you wont have to worry about people not hiring you.Of course its a lot safer getting a job ( which you did not create in the first place). Rant off.

 

[LiquidX]

I am going to say it out loud...I HATE GAMES THAT FEATURE STEREOTYPICAL CHARACTERS with GTA:SA being the exception. I kinda see what there talking about. Most times when a game features a black character as the lead there stereotype as flashy, jive talking or cursing and they seem to have to kill everyone. Almost every games that is not a sports title and feature a black character as the lead is portrayed this way atleast on the consoles. PC games I dont think or like the consoles where that is rampant because I would think many could careless that the main is of color as long is its not forced on them if its not part of the story. That said seeing Alyx and her father in HL2 I have to say looked refreshing and they didnt sound as if there rappers.

More more games need to do what HL2 did, you see characters of many ethnicities but its not BASHED over your head with sterotypes. The black characters dont have to sound like rappers and, asians and latinos dont all have to speak with a accent. Make games diverse without the damn sterotypes like Valve did because I hate seeing it in games where it seems as if doesnt belong.

 

[[H]ugh_Freak]

First off I'm sick of everyone thinking there is a majority of any race, considering German-Americans are the largest population in the US at around 36%. And before you go off saying whites are all the same, ask an italian if they think they are the same stock as a german or visa versa. Just because they have similar skin tones doesn't mean they are the same.

2nd. Politically correct language is BS. PC behavior is BS. Workplaces are not supposed to perfectly represent the divide of peoples in a society. Its a place to get work DONE. The best person for the job. Or the best person you want to hire, yes I believe privately held companies should have the right to hire/fire whoever they wish. They do own or run the company. If the government wants to decide who gets fired and hired then they should buy it and run it, not try to sue people/companies out of existance.

3rd. Everyone is talking about the hero/heroiens being of different races. Big whoop. Is it really that hard to code up a few different skins for the main character so that everyone could have a black/white/asian/purple/indian/female/polar bear/shemale character if they so choose? I'm guessing it isn't since every game that has female characters has nude skins released on the net within 24 hours of the game going on sale.

4th. Why is no one bitchin about the blantely racist, hateful idea that every enemy in the world has to be a Nazi. Especially in FPS's. I'm not saying they are great guys or anything remotely like that but Stalin, Mao Tse-tung, and Pol-Pot together killed more then 8 times what the Nazis did during the entire war (including the Allied troop losses). Come on developers, there are plenty of other bad people out there for us maime and kill. "Guetentag" is getting kinda old. Wanna make a WWII FPS, fine.... How about you give us a game where the US doesn't/can't nuke Japan to end the war and we have to do a full scale invasion. We could even do the whole battle plan ourselves if you want to throw in some RTS elements. Was that hard.. no, cause I thought that up in 1 minute.

5th. I love this quote "Jason Della Rocca, IGDA's executive director, said the industry must confront a cycle that threatens its creativity: Educated, young white males create games for other educated, young white males."
I for one wouldn't want to play any game done by some retard, regardless of what race he/she is. You have to be educated so you know to make a good game. Lets hope the developer/programmers are at the very least educated.

 

[Stiler]

Here was my response to this article when it was posted a while back in another forum:

holy crap, I pray and hope people don't get super PC in video games these days.

If someone wants to have a black/hispanic hero then let them, but don't force a developer to simply change his story/characters because it doesn't look "Balanced."

That's complete bullcrap.

and yet white people are just a-ok at being typcasted as quote:

"It's been said that a bunch of nerdy white guys are creating these games," Armstrong said. "The problem with a bunch of white guys creating the games is that the story isn't being created with balance."

Now replace white with >insert other people< and suddenly you'd have screams of "racism."

Who the heck is in the right to tell someone else that their story "must contain different types of people."

That's something that should be left up to the person making the game.

 

[EricDawg]

I'd like to see more racial/facial customizations in games in general, but I don't think it has anything to do with racism. If current trends continue more complicated code required for the next gen "multithreading" thing will probably have game companies outsourcing programming jobs to india. Then will their be more Indians in videogames? I think its ultimately the publisher telling the game developer if their idea is going to sell, then either the game getting shelved or the developer bending to the will of the guy with the money. Like has been pointed out here already , publishers want a game thats going to sell, and for whatever reason (focus groups?) they think people want a white kid with sunglasses and a backwards hat on riding a rocket powered skateboard.

Alyx was mullato (is that word still okay?) and she was a intelligent, resorcefull , sexy-without-big-boobs woman. Thats a good role model.

Funny I sure notice a lot more Indian women with headsets on for web site customer service photos. They do use their own babes for their websites. So I guess we can forget about a Cow slaughtering game.

 

[urbsnspices]

What makes them think that a minority programmer will automatically push for more minorities in a game? That is as racist as saying: We need more black restaurant owners because there are no good soul food places in town. That is insulting, why cant a black businessman open a french restaurant or a burger king or chinese buffet. Same goes for writin' games.

I think it is sometimes just easier to put white characters in your game. That way the PC crowd will not come and attack your game for portraying a character(who just happens to be puerto rican) as an evil bastard, or dumb, or whatever. No one much cares if fictional white characters are portrayed in a bad light. And no one should care, first of all we are all humans, and second of all its a fictional game.

 

[Tazman2]

Here was my response to this article when it was posted a while back in another forum:

holy crap, I pray and hope people don't get super PC in video games these days.

If someone wants to have a black/hispanic hero then let them, but don't force a developer to simply change his story/characters because it doesn't look "Balanced."

That's complete bullcrap.

and yet white people are just a-ok at being typcasted as quote:

"It's been said that a bunch of nerdy white guys are creating these games," Armstrong said. "The problem with a bunch of white guys creating the games is that the story isn't being created with balance."

Now replace white with >insert other people< and suddenly you'd have screams of "racism."

Who the heck is in the right to tell someone else that their story "must contain different types of people."

That's something that should be left up to the person making the game.

Thank you! You explained what i was too stupid to explain properly!

 

[cybergold]

I don't think vegetarians are fully represented in the beef industry.

Whatever happened to the idea of choosing your career path for yourself. No, it would be much better to have quotas and go by statistics and let the government or media decide where the next person should be placed.

Exposure? You can't play a video game and not realize that it comes from somewhere. I have to say that playing video games is where a lot of game programmers start to get that first seed of an idea to start down their path. I'm tired of the idea that it takes hand holding to
expose someone to the idea of doing something. The search for knowledge comes from a drive within, you either have it or you don't.

 

[Moog]

This reminds me of some people (minorities) complaining how white people making money and how they (the minorities) are always poor. Then when you offer the minorities a job, they refuse . Get off your butt and get one.

With attitudes like that of course there are no problems with perception...

 

[-Sean Casey]

Personally I think as soon as everyone stops trying to seperate people into "black, white, latino, asian, etc" and just call them what ever their nationality is, the better. Gee, I guess most people in the USA would be Americans then.

I don't get it. Why do so many people have such a difficult time just seeing everyone as a different person? From listening to people talk around me it actually sounds like it is getting worse... My theory is that with the effort to be politcally correct, if is actually drawingmore divides. It is sort of a selffulling prophesy. The more say the problem is there, the more the problem exists.

What I wonder is if the percentage of "minority" game developers equals the percentage of the specifics races makeup of the population?

As for racism, it is far from dead unfortunately. I can not count the time I've heard someone say "Oh I'm not going to move into that city, a bunch of asians live there, and they are dirty", or someone say "Oh well no wonder they did the crime they were black, they all act like a bunch of monkeys", or people say "mexicans are a bunch of fat burrito eating pigs". Everytime I alway say "You are looking a single person, how can you judge every single person like that?" To which they say "Well its true!". After 9/11 there have been a lot more comments about arabs.

Funny story about Arabs. My Father-In-Law's family comes from Lebenon. He has a beard and looks very middle-eastern (well duh). On an airliner flight back to LA after a business meeting he was riding in first class. He was dressed in his business suit BTW. This lady kept glaring at him and kept calling the stewardess over and making comments. Well he asks the stewardess if the lady was not feeling well, and the stewardess says "Oh, the lady keeps wanting me to check to make sure you are not a terrorist and that she is scared that you might blow up the plane".

It must suck to go through life being so stupid.

People who are racist(or sexist) actually tick me off quite a bit. My grandfather grew up in Arkansas in the 1920's, and even he over time came to realize that "hey they are just regular people".

I remember how a bunch of family got upset when one of my cousins married a "black" guy. My god, the guy makes $250,000 a year and is probably one of the nicest people i've ever met, and people were upset.

If it is so hard to people to judge another person based on their actions, and not on preconcieved notions then racisim will never die.

If the propotions of "minority" game dev is low and not due to any racial bias at any point, then what is the problem?

When you view American citizens as "Americans" the only minorities are those here on H1B Visas, tourists, foriegn students, or illegals immigrants. Minority is a perception based on what is considered the majority.

 

[mattgyver79]

While I see where you are coming from, I believe liberalism ALWAYS creates the EXACT OPPOSITE of it stated intent. In this case, it makes minorities stand out more because they are always out there screaming discrimination in every little thing that goes wrong in their life, and in my opinion its like the boy who cried wolf, no one is listening anymore.

Same could be said for conservatism, socialism, communism, or any other *ism.

This country has made great strides in race relations but we aren't perfect yet. Patience is key because we will eventually get there. Changes in society take time. The problem is everyone in this country wants the quick fix done RIGHT NOW.

 

[nitefallz]

There's a reason for stereotypes. They're real. Period.

Before you flame, think about that for a moment. I'm not saying it's good, I'm not saying it's right, but it's real, and obviously inserted into some games.

Another thing not discussed is that when games are made, the goal is to make money, it's a business. They're going to make a game that appeals to the majority of the population, and the majority of the minorities. Take GTA3 for example. When I found out the premise for the game and that the main character was black I thought "now why would you do that?"

Where I live the minority population is relatively small, however, the minorities that I see definitely fall into the stereotyped groups. Whenever I watch the news and a minority is on TV, they're part of a stereotype. It makes more sense to market to the majority of the minorites that will play the game, which just happen to be those stereotypes as represented in GTA3.

I see all these goddamn kids who are minority who are, oddly enough, not with any adults, it's like a pack of wolves, and they're all conforming to the stereotype, and they're the ones who go mimmicking the game after they play it. Maybe it's a parenting issue.

It's a fair bet that those who are complaining about the minority in video game issue aren't even the types who would even play games. I've never heard anyone minority or not who's played these games even discuss the non-diversity.


/edit this really is a pointless post

 

[pswenger]

What is perfect? Do we stand people in a line one white male, one black male, one hispanic male, one indian male, one white female, one black female, one hispanic female, one indian female, one homosexual white male, one homosexual black male, etc, etc.......and start placing them in jobs? In the end nobody is happy because the one homosexual black male wonders why the one white male gets to go first. Your perfect country sound alot like Marxism and unless I'm mistaken that never works, you just end up with poverty and death. Though there was this one television show that I saw where this federation of free planets made it work, I think it was called Star Trek.

 

[Lamont]

Ok, so what can be done? Wolfofsin and a couple of other members brought up good point(s). To combat the media, education is the first step, and pretty much the easiest for some people, and can start with the younger people in your family (older people may be a lost cause in some cases). Even just showing a kid once, can have a HUGE impact on the rest of their lives. And when some of you who are in IT, games, CG or whatever have kids, they will be exsposed to those careers a lot more. Kids need to know it's ok to be smart, just don't be an asshole about it .

If someone is interested in what you do for a living, go ahead and tell them. I used to just down-play it, but that doesn't help. What I do and who I work for is in my sig for a reason: If anyone has any questions about it, freakin' ask me.

I am not really directing it at any race or group, because there are people of all races who aren't shown other careers because of their living situation. There can't be an overnight solution for this, it's going to take a while like I said in my other post.

My concerns are deeper than race, it's more like the need for a hot-beef injection of originality (THE GAME INDUSTRY REALLY PHUCKING NEEDS RIGHT NOW!!) that may come from people of different backgrounds.

 

[-Sean Casey]

Well said Lamont. The game industry definately needs some original ideas!

 

[Moog]

I am not really directing it at any race or group, because there are people of all races who aren't shown other careers because of their living situation. There can't be an overnight solution for this, it's going to take a while like I said in my other post.

Glad you made that point. There are many external factors that potentially bar entrance to certain careers, so the answer is not as simple as shouting "Well...they need to just learn to program".

 

[HardOCP News]

If someone is interested in what you do for a living, go ahead and tell them. I used to just down-play it, but that doesn't help. What I do and who I work for is in my sig for a reason: If anyone has any questions about it, freakin' ask me.

Kids dig on it, we have been going to schools for the last 6 years:

http://hypothermia.gamershardware.com/teach.html

breaking the stigma of "nerd" & "geek" is a huge start...letting kids know that it is cool to be into computers, make games, etc.

I am not in the game industry, I talk more about webmaster / website stuff now, but it all applies. Penny-Arcade recently did it, and I think EVERYONE who is in a position like this in the industry (especially game devs) ought to take a few hours a year to talk to kids in their area.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/news.php?date=2005-06-17

 

[WickedAngel]

Perhaps the stereotypes would be squashed if the majority of the young African-American male population aspired to be something other than rappers or athletes. Stereotypes exist because they're true. White people aren't holding the black community back; the problem is in parenting. About 6 of the ~30 African-American friends I had in highschool aspired to go to college. 2 of them were from the same family (A family which stressed the importance of education). 4 of them were female. 2 of them were male.

I'm not a fan of Bill Cosby's television shows, but he makes a lot of good points on the subject. He basically says the same thing; white people aren't the reason black people are being held back. They're so busy blaming everyone else and living in the past that they don't see the possibility of a bright future in front of them. Take responsibility and stop laying your shit on everyone elses doorstep.

There is still racism against everyone. I've been called a "cracker" before. I've heard people call others "!!!!!!s". It's a part of life...there are ignorant people in every race. If you want true racism, try looking at college admission standards these days. "Equal Opportunity"...what a joke.