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Minority Game Devs Needed?

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ahh this is a lame article.....

There is spin on this article that makes programmers look like they come to work in sheets and pointy hats. Plus the reason why there are more "white" characters is because there are more "white" people. Hell i bet if you take an average of all the characters in video games i bet it matches up to america's racial makeup.
 
"CJ," as he's known by his pals, is black -- and to some in the video game industry, that's a problem
Click to expand...

I don't see what the problem is..

They certainly didn't have a problem with the previous GTA games where the main guy was white.
 
Personally, I think that this article doesn't apply to the majority of games out there and that some of the statements made are outright retarded.

Looking at some of the biggest game categories out there:

a.) Race Sims? There is no race or gender assigned to the driver.

b.) Flight sims? *see above*

c.) The Sims?

d.) Unreal franchise: Many of the main characters are "not white" and not portrayed "stereotypically".

e.) Halo 1 & 2: Master Chief has intentionally been left in his armor allowing the player to see him as anything they want to imagine.

d.) EverQuest / WoW: I feel that Orcs, Elves and Dwarfs are equally represented. Theives and Dark Elves might have a legit complaint though. :rolleyes:

And so on. I am sure I missed some obvious ones too (list them).

While I do see a need for diversity and would love to see more minority developers, it is almost laughable that they would leave women completely out of the equation (no call for women game devs) and other countries that put out some of the best games out there (Croteam) who are not rich middle class Americans.

Hell, if you want to be "technical" about it, most game devs are tech nerds like me....we are CERTAINLY not the "majority" of anything.
 
Who cares? This country is so fucking obsessed with political correctness it makes me sick. If black/hispanic/asian/martian kids feel like they are underrepresented in video games maybe they will grow up and make some games themselves that have the kind of protaganist they would like to play.

-Ace-
 
From the article's conclusion -

"We like to think that game design is a higher calling and that no one really cares what your skin color is or your sexual orientation," Della Rocca said. "But that doesn't seem to manifest itself in terms of a more diversified workplace."

With all of the current equal opportunity laws in place, I find it hard to believe that good quality programmers are being turned away based on race, creed or sexual orientation. I think the proble here has to do with marketing and what the target market areas are for games. What sells, sells for a reason. Are there biases and stereotypes? Of course there are! Let's talk about your typical large breasted scantily clad warrior.

"Educated white males" are making games that their employers think will make their big corporation the most money. While I applaud there being a program to bring computer programming to disadvantaged areas, trying to influence behaviour by making politically correct games is right out.

I don't disagree that there are inherent biases by educated white males, but I don't think it just stops there. EVERYONE has their own individual biases and pre-conceived notions.
 
I really don't care whom the main char is, if they want it changed they should change it themselves, otherwise things will continue the way they have been.
 
Positive discrimination is just as wrong as discrimination. It's like saying that a 'black' or a 'white' school is 'bad', even if there are no problems with it.

Is there anything fundamentally wrong with the game industry? Not as far as I can determine. Can things be improved? Of course. Is putting more 'non-whites' (note the risky term I'm forced to use already!) at work in the gaming industry going to solve anything? Depends on for who.

For the gaming industry it might result in different games, but considering that it's so expensive to produce new games, those in charge dislike taking risks and not everyone might like your 'politically correct' games (2 - 3% or a similar small number of the population isn't a very big market).

Then should those 'pasty white nerds' flip that switch, and produce those PC (Politically Correct) games? Who cares?

In the end what it all comes down to is whether or not people are willingly and knowingly being offended in a manner which goes beyond freedom of speech or good taste (discrimination, and not the hideous, PC version). If they are, then it's a bad thing, and should be stopped. If people in an industry refuse to produce a product you might like, but the market isn't there, or there's some other reasonable reason why it wouldn't work, then stop complaining.
 
AceTKK said:
Who cares? This country is so fucking obsessed with political correctness it makes me sick. If black/hispanic/asian/martian kids feel like they are underrepresented in video games maybe they will grow up and make some games themselves that have the kind of protaganist they would like to play.

-Ace-
Click to expand...
QFT couldn't agree more
 
Pharacon said:
ahh this is a lame article.....

There is spin on this article that makes programmers look like they come to work in sheets and pointy hats. Plus the reason why there are more "white" characters is because there are more "white" people. Hell i bet if you take an average of all the characters in video games i bet it matches up to america's racial makeup.
Click to expand...

Ditto that. Games are for "fun", they are "entertainment". I could care LESS what color some person's skin is who makes the game or what color skin a character in a game has. As long as it's FUN. *bleh* This article makes me want to vomit. :eek:
 
AceTKK said:
Who cares? This country is so fucking obsessed with political correctness it makes me sick. If black/hispanic/asian/martian kids feel like they are underrepresented in video games maybe they will grow up and make some games themselves that have the kind of protaganist they would like to play.

-Ace-
Click to expand...

Amen Brother. Political Correctness on its present course will be the downfall of this country.

And just when you thought you have seen it all, along comes this story from my hometown....Thank God this judge still has a brain.

Linkage

And here's a RADICAL thought, how bout game manufacturers just hire the best/most qualified person for the job.....sounds logical to me.

/end rant
 
Y'know, watch anime, and see how many characters are drawn japanese vs. white/black or an undefined nationality with crazy purple/blue/green hair.

Seems like you see very few japanese being drawn into anime, though some will say in the show that they're japanese since the setting is in japan.

Look at Japanese games, and most of the characters are either white, or one of the undefined nationalities, but very few japanese.(What race would you say Tidus is? Yuna? Rikku? Where were the non-whites?)

Thing is, the Japanese just don't /care/. And that's Japan.

We're America, our native race is American Indians. When you see somebody in American media, that's not a latino, an asian, a middleasterner, etc., you should just see an American, that's the eventual goal of PCness. However...

Why would there be more whites in media? My guess is that people have developed a sense of "White=Normal". Ethnicities tend to wind up together, and since there are more whites in upper economic classes, they get the most representation, and thus when White is all you see, White is the norm. As time passes and wealth distribution flows through into immigrant classes(For example Jewish and Irish people, were the major minorities getting the attention, now it's latinos, asians, and middleeasterners) and the immigrant classes become normal as they get a bigger piece of the economic pie. Though they are still discriminated against, Jewish and Irish folk are more "white" than they were 60 years ago. The important result of integrating minorities into popular culture is that they become less and less prominent as minorities, and eventually simply become recognized as Americans.

The gist of what I'm saying is, the goal of race relations is to make it so that nobody even notices race anymore. However, to get there, you need to place enough minorities in the forefront of media to the point where it's nothing special to see one.

For the record, I'm Taiwanese. In reality, I'm American.
 
These kind of articles are laughable. I could care less if the programmer was black, white, yellow, red, tan, or green pocadotted purple. All I care about is the quality of the product that is being produced.

IMO, they should stop their rediculous crusade in saying that the industry is not flooded enough with black people. These arguments are real old, and i'm constantly hearing them over and over again in various places all around me. Everyone resorts to the racism, white favoritism thing, and it is really getting to be the common fallback in alot of situations.

I for one was born into a generation that couldnt care less what color your skin was. All I care about is if you are intelligent enough to carry on a conversation, are good at what you do, and bring something to the table. Hell... I lived in Savannah, Georgia for 5 years in school, and saw the kind of white trash that lived down there.

Bringing racial issues into a gaming standpoint is rediculous.
 
My generation and the generation after me were born in this CRAP, we SHOULD be untouched by racism and new professions like game designing should be untouched by racism.

If cnn.com and minorities feel like they aren't represented in video games, then they should go to college, take programming, and create their own video games with their own heroes. It takes person of a paticular race to make a game thats TRUELY based around that race, not anyone else.

80% of the industry is white? Well it's not like anyone was keeping other colors out. 15 years ago the industry was all Asian; obviously times have changed. And times will change again like it does every one to two decades.

5 years ago I was planning on becoming a programmer my self, decided to change careers, good thing, cause another white developer would have meant 81% of the industry is white, hahaha.
 
kelbear said:
The gist of what I'm saying is, the goal of race relations is to make it so that nobody even notices race anymore. However, to get there, you need to place enough minorities in the forefront of media to the point where it's nothing special to see one.
Click to expand...

While I see where you are coming from, I believe liberalism ALWAYS creates the EXACT OPPOSITE of it stated intent. In this case, it makes minorities stand out more because they are always out there screaming discrimination in every little thing that goes wrong in their life, and in my opinion its like the boy who cried wolf, no one is listening anymore.
 
AceTKK said:
Who cares? This country is so fucking obsessed with political correctness it makes me sick. If black/hispanic/asian/martian kids feel like they are underrepresented in video games maybe they will grow up and make some games themselves that have the kind of protaganist they would like to play.

-Ace-
Click to expand...

Exactly. Go make your own. Then sell em to the 13-15% of the population that will be interested in paying to identify with a minority positive role model.

Video games see one color......................Green.

Except for the asian kids. Lots of Asian protagonists in video games. If it's made in Asia they don't even THINK about putting a different race in their games.
 
Honestly- hwo freakin' funny woudl it be to hear a gay hispanic themed character spout off one liners as the lead character in a duke-nukem style game!

:D
 
Men of Valor

.

Young black male in a positive light.


The Sims 2: You can change your skin color, facial features, and hairstyle to your liking.

WoW: There are far more non-white males, I think they are the minority here.

UT2004: Lots of non-white characters to choose from

Serious Sam anyone?

Most 1st person games, you can't tell the race or gender of the player.

Remember Metriod? The hero was a girl... What about Ms. Pac-Man?

GTA series: Should I be complaining about the number of white male criminals in this series? What about Redneck Rampage?


Have the authors of the article really done their homework on this? Look at the credits for most games, the majority of the devlopers and producers are not your standard "white males", there are lots of women (not 1 to 1), lots of non-americans.

They said something about a "stubborness to diversify." I hate to break it to them, the game developers make games to make money... They code what sells... Nascar sells... Female Night Elves sell... Master Chief sells (and would sell a lot more if they released Halo 2 for the PC).
 
idiot999 said:
Oh My Gosh! How revealing, where does the article talk about the need for more white-male Hip-Hop artists?
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Oh for the love of God, there is no need to get stupid. Eminem ffs, that is enough of that shit to last me a eternity. :rolleyes:
 
Did I skip over the part where they mentioned asians?

This reminds me of some people (minorities) complaining how white people making money and how they (the minorities) are always poor. Then when you offer the minorities a job, they refuse :eek: . Get off your butt and get one. Just like if you want more diverse heroes, get off your butt and make some! Don't sit there and complain.


I don't mind ethnic diversity, but you shouldn't force it. Forcing something like this always create more problems.

They say "roughly 80% of programmers are white." Maybe it's because there are more white people interested in programming then blacks, asians, hispanics. If I remember correctly, out of about 11 students in my programming class, there were 1 asian (me), 1 black, with the rest white. Do the math. That's roughly 81% whites! Do I care? No. That's just an excuse for me to work harder to stand out amongst the majority. :D


Hey, you guys missed a game. Two, actually. Mario and Link. Nothing like an italian plumber and a blonde haired blue eyed white guy going around saving the princess :D Like someone said before, not only do white people make white heroes, asian people and other races make white heroes also. So we don't have lots of "white" heroes going around because 80% of the programmers are white. It seems more like programmers in general favor white.
 
ANYONE can be a game developer, provided they have the experience (or training) necessary to do the task. If you can't do the job, you can't do the job. I don't think anyone is preventing "minorities" from becoming game developers at all. If they can give me one example of a minority individual who is a competent and talented game developer getting turned down for a job based on race, I'll reconsider.
 
iansilv said:
Honestly- hwo freakin' funny woudl it be to hear a gay hispanic themed character spout off one liners as the lead character in a duke-nukem style game!

:D
Click to expand...

I heard that the lisp is what is delaying Duke Nukem Forever....
 
It is the cause for the delay. It's simply using up too much CPU power to do the necessary de-essing calculations. :D Now if they had some dedicated DSPs...
 
Isn't the hero of PREY supposed to be a native american indian? Half-Life 2 has blacks, hispanics, asians. So does Doom3 for that matter. It saddens me that people are getting paid to put out this sort of BS.
 
The best way to respond to this kind of article is perhaps to not respond at all. We have to realize that this article does not represent rational minds, it is not made to bring some kind of truth to light, it is made solely by people who want make others believe there is a problem. It is made to stir up the irrational emotions of uneducated and easily controlled people, in order to artificially instigate a “public outcry” for change, which will then be dictated by those who claimed to have brought enlightenment to the masses in the first place. The irony is, those leaders will do nothing to enhance cooperation or understanding, they will fan the flames as much as possible in order to divide and conquer, and feed off the power.
This is nothing new. Many so-called minority-rights groups have been doing this for decades. The sad and shameful truth is that ethnic discrimination was, until fairly recently, legally sanctioned in the US; laws have since been effected that put everybody on the same level (and to some degree give preferential treatment to non-whites and non-Asians [funny how “minority-rights” groups always seem to forget that Asians are a minority too isn’t it?]). Today, there is no legal racism. But what would happen if the minority-rights leaders admitted that civil-rights had won, and that we can all go home and be equal? They’d be out of a job! Jesse Jackson? The man would be out of a job! Al Sharpton? No more job. These men feed on the power generated by anger and hatred of people against other groups.
There are some organizations that actually do promote personal empowerment for minorities – like United Negro College Fund and League of United Latin American Citizens. These groups support empowerment and betterment and responsibility – not handouts nor forced, artificial, destructive, hypocritical social reforms.
You know, there is no way to change a person’s thinking with laws, especially when so many people today grew up in a world of inequality. Think about it: There are black Americans today whose grandparents were slaves! There are thousands of Americans who were enslaved during World War II because they had Japanese ancestors. That type of experience has got to leave a huge impact, not soon to be forgotten. And there are just those stupid people, who are so terminally, pathetically stupid that they blame everything on people they call whiteys, !!!!!!s, chinks, spics, etc., but they themselves are probably just low-life shit worse than those they vilify.
Most (I think so far ALL) posters here have agreed that the article is ridiculous. Just remember: Don’t let it influence you, don’t let it make you angry at Blacks, or Whites, or Asians, or Hispanics, or Jews, or whatever. It was meant to make us angry. It was meant to divide us. Let us stand as united Gaming-Americans!

p.s. To those of you not in the US, don’t feel left out, we love you too.
 
First rule of thumb in life: Ignore anyone that tells you the reason something is not successful is because another race of persons is responsible for its failure. They have predetermined goals, and their goal is to bring the other person down to their level, instead of raising their level up to the others.

Case in point: Basketball used to be an all white sport. Now, you can argue its an all black sport. Is it because we needed a set % of black players on the court? No, its because they raised their game to a level that exceeded white players. They win, based on their talents, not on their skin color.

Case in point #2 Back in the "old days" women were not allowed to do men's jobs. We eliminated that barrier, and women can now do just about anything they damn well please. Was it because we lowered the bar for them? In most cases, no. We just allowed them to adopt the talents and abilities that are required to perform the job. But we still have women's rights because its a poltical issue, just like racism is a political issue.

If they are so easy to judge someone else based on their predisposed concepts, then they themselves probably share the same deep hatred for their fellow man, color, creed, religion is not the problem, its simply there to mask the truth, and use it as a shield at the same time.

Race and the issue of racism, in everyday means is pretty much dead. Its only kept alive by those who stand to prosper from it politcally or financially. Look at the people that cry racism the most, and follow the money trail. Its a pretty well to do playbook of ignorance. Cry foul, then boycott, then get paid off. Walk away with some free money that you didn't have to work for, and you strengthen your cause because you can put another notch in your belt.

Wow within 7 minutes we both compose the same basic message. Considering I walked away from my PC for about 20 minutes, its pretty freaky :)
 
Servant of Shodan said:
And there are just those stupid people, who are so terminally, pathetically stupid that they blame everything on people they call whiteys, !!!!!!s, chinks, spics, etc., but they themselves are probably just low-life shit worse than those they vilify.
Click to expand...

Interesting…one of my poignant racial slurs was censored, but not the others.
Hmmm….
 
I think that this is being blown out of proportion. A few quick responses:

Gender diversity -- They did not leave gender diversity out of the equation. Women in game development is a highly emphasized and widely attended portion of the GDC. The article is pointing out another form of diversity, not ignoring gender diversity. From the article itself: "For a long time, we've talked in the game industry about gender diversity as the one problem on the radar, but the racial split is worse,"

Minority role models -- When I read the article, I don't see anyone saying that we need more minority characters in video games. We need less stereotypical minority characters in video games. Going back to the gender diversity issue, the crux of the problem isn't that we don't have enough minority developers or minority characters.

Minority game designers/Minority game appeal -- That's not what the gender diversity issue really is about either. The gender diversity issue is about writing games that appeal to women. The most offensive game I ever played was some fps where I was Chinese and picking up fortune cookies to gain health! That isn't a game that reaches out and grabs the asian gaming audience, it pushes them away. The example in GTA provided does not demonstrate the issue as well, but left to their own devices, almost every black character you see is going to be some breakdancing thug. Go look at some fighting games.

Character designer: Oh, we need a native american! Let's see, we'll put a headdress on him, stick featherse everywhere, have him wear a loincloth, put teepees in his background stage. done!

Many parallels can be drawn to hollywood, who went through these same issues with varying degrees of success.

Asian developers -- Asians are something like 4% of the USA population, and I have a suspicion that we're overly represented already. This doesn't even take into account overseas developers.
 
stiltner said:
Wow within 7 minutes we both compose the same basic message. Considering I walked away from my PC for about 20 minutes, its pretty freaky :)
Click to expand...

Pretty neat, neh?
Shall we chalk this one down to, "Great minds think alike?" ;)
 
BF2 is another example. Obviously you have US/China/MEC (fictional Middle East Coalition) none of which are displayed in a "bad" role. Then there are a couple black models on the US team.

So we have listed quite a few of the recent major games here in the thread. What was their point again?
:confused:
 
Servant of Shodan said:
The best way to respond to this kind of article is perhaps to not respond at all. We have to realize that this article does not represent rational minds, it is not made to bring some kind of truth to light, it is made solely by people who want make others believe there is a problem. It is made to stir up the irrational emotions of uneducated and easily controlled people, in order to artificially instigate a “public outcry” for change, which will then be dictated by those who claimed to have brought enlightenment to the masses in the first place. The irony is, those leaders will do nothing to enhance cooperation or understanding, they will fan the flames as much as possible in order to divide and conquer, and feed off the power.
This is nothing new. Many so-called minority-rights groups have been doing this for decades. The sad and shameful truth is that ethnic discrimination was, until fairly recently, legally sanctioned in the US; laws have since been effected that put everybody on the same level (and to some degree give preferential treatment to non-whites and non-Asians [funny how “minority-rights” groups always seem to forget that Asians are a minority too isn’t it?]). Today, there is no legal racism. But what would happen if the minority-rights leaders admitted that civil-rights had won, and that we can all go home and be equal? They’d be out of a job! Jesse Jackson? The man would be out of a job! Al Sharpton? No more job. These men feed on the power generated by anger and hatred of people against other groups.
There are some organizations that actually do promote personal empowerment for minorities – like United Negro College Fund and League of United Latin American Citizens. These groups support empowerment and betterment and responsibility – not handouts nor forced, artificial, destructive, hypocritical social reforms.
You know, there is no way to change a person’s thinking with laws, especially when so many people today grew up in a world of inequality. Think about it: There are black Americans today whose grandparents were slaves! There are thousands of Americans who were enslaved during World War II because they had Japanese ancestors. That type of experience has got to leave a huge impact, not soon to be forgotten. And there are just those stupid people, who are so terminally, pathetically stupid that they blame everything on people they call whiteys, !!!!!!s, chinks, spics, etc., but they themselves are probably just low-life shit worse than those they vilify.
Most (I think so far ALL) posters here have agreed that the article is ridiculous. Just remember: Don’t let it influence you, don’t let it make you angry at Blacks, or Whites, or Asians, or Hispanics, or Jews, or whatever. It was meant to make us angry. It was meant to divide us. Let us stand as united Gaming-Americans!

p.s. To those of you not in the US, don’t feel left out, we love you too.
Click to expand...

Excellent. *applause*
 
stiltner said:
Race and the issue of racism, in everyday means is pretty much dead. Its only kept alive by those who stand to prosper from it politcally or financially.
Click to expand...

You need to open your eyes if you think racism in the USA "is pretty much dead". Tell that to all of the "towelheads" who had their shops trashed or were assaulted by mobs after 9/11.

It's much better than it was just 30 years ago, but it's not gone yet. Most people aren't dumb enough to let it show in the way that it breaks the law.
 
Servant of Shodan said:
funny how “minority-rights” groups always seem to forget that Asians are a minority too isn’t it?
Click to expand...
Not so funny because Asians, as a stereotyped group, are more inclined to take their legal equality and DO something with it. Those people you speak of who feed on racial seperation, anger, and fear have too little to work with for them.

How many Asians do you know have singing careers whose principle focus is being oppressed 'by the man'? How many Asians do you know that are happy to live off the welfare system and whine on the TV demanding reperations for various things their ancestors suffered?

The 'leaders' of which you speak are selling fear. And you can't sell a product when people aren't buying.
 
Hmm, another way to approach the article, but it'll only make sense if you still watch WWF/WWE.

If it looks like a bad pro wrestling gimmick, it'll never appeal to a wide audience. WWE is notorious for stereotypical minority plotlines. That's the main gist of the article.
 
I'd like to see more racial/facial customizations in games in general, but I don't think it has anything to do with racism. If current trends continue more complicated code required for the next gen "multithreading" thing will probably have game companies outsourcing programming jobs to india. Then will their be more Indians in videogames? I think its ultimately the publisher telling the game developer if their idea is going to sell, then either the game getting shelved or the developer bending to the will of the guy with the money. Like has been pointed out here already , publishers want a game thats going to sell, and for whatever reason (focus groups?) they think people want a white kid with sunglasses and a backwards hat on riding a rocket powered skateboard.

Alyx was mullato (is that word still okay?) and she was a intelligent, resorcefull , sexy-without-big-boobs woman. Thats a good role model.
 
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