Mining Rig

[DistortedMinds]

Hi everyone,

I'm completely new to this world and was looking for some expert advise.

The story is, me and my friend have recently stumbled across cryptocurrency mining, we started looking into things and found out about a small mining rig and before long we got to the point where we where virtually going to start building our own 12 x GPU rig.

We ordered the following:

1 x 18 way GPU frame
1 x Asus B250 mining expert motherboard
1 x i7 Intel processor
1 x 16GB DDR4 RAM

We had a storage location and then just when we was about to order the PSU, USB risers, HDD, power button, handheld wallet, wattage monitor and finally a couple of NVIDIA RTX 3080's to get rocking and rolling we found out about phase 1.5 of Ethereum and Ethereum 2.0. We where absolutely gutted, now I'm convinced this isn't the end of mining so this is where I need some help.

We have looked into Nicehash for either renting your hash rate or mining on there which seems to be Bitcoin mining which I don't get as I thought you was supposed to have incredible amounts of power to make this profitable but from the calculator on there site it seems to be quite profitable and again with renting out hash rate.

I was also looking into Zcash and wondered if anyone else has any experiance mining this crypto currency or any others for that matter that will be a decent-ish passive income.

We figured with a 12 GPU rig we'd have about 1000 Mh/s maybe more from overclocking and running at about 3000 watts with power reduction. Our electricity rate is about 0.16 kW/h which is roughly 0.22 kW/h in USD so after a while we was going to set up a small solar unit to power this.

I really hope someone can shed some light on this, I hope we are not doomed as I loved the idea of mining and its certainly something I find fascinating. Thank you for any advice in advance and I look forward to hearing from you.

 

[DistortedMinds]

Btw these are the figures put into a calculator for mining Ethereum

 

[DistortedMinds]

This is the nice hash calculator for 12 x 3080 GPU's

This set up will roughly cost about £9.5-£10k so obviously it'll take time to claw that back but we was thinking Ethereum isn't going into phase 1.5 for a little while yet so we could mine some until that point, sell it before it gets transferred over to fund the majority if not all of the rig

 

[Archaea]

Your hashing numbers are a little low. 3080s should get you about 100MH/s. Thus 12 of them should put you at 3.200 MH/s. Profits are really high right now for ETH mining. As high as they’ve ever been really, that doesn’t have to stay that way and likely won’t. What’s plan B if ETH mining gets over saturated and no longer profitable? Look at whattomine to figure out if plan B is still profitable given your electric rate and acquisition cost/payback horizon.

lesson learned from these previous bumps. Do not assume profits will remain as is for the long haul. So don’t buy this on credit and expect you’ll have a full year to make it up. Profitable mining might only last a month or two, or it might last six. Just three months ago and for about a year before that mining wasn’t really profitable. Realize what you are doing isn’t sure, but it is probably fairly safe right now because if you can actually acquire 12, 3080 you shouldn’t stand to loose much if you had to sell them in three months — what with the current shortage of stock.

 

[DistortedMinds]

Your hashing numbers are a little low. 3080s should get you about 100MH/s. Thus 12 of them should put you at 3.200 MH/s. Profits are really high right now for ETH mining. As high as they’ve ever been really, that doesn’t have to stay that way and likely won’t. What’s plan B if ETH mining gets over saturated and no longer profitable? Look at whattomine to figure out if plan B is still profitable given your electric rate and acquisition cost/payback horizon.

lesson learned from these previous bumps. Do not assume profits will remain as is for the long haul. So don’t buy this on credit and expect you’ll have a full year to make it up. Profitable mining might only last a month or two, or it might last six. Just three months ago and for about a year before that mining wasn’t really profitable. Realize what you are doing isn’t sure, but it is probably fairly safe right now because if you can actually acquire 12, 3080 you shouldn’t stand to loose much if you had to sell them in three months — what with the current shortage of stock.

This was my thinking regarding selling on hardware if need be. Whattomine is also stating that Nicehash is the way to go if and once Ethereum hits the next phase. I guess its a risk like anything though isn't it. Property, stocks and shares etc etc. I was hoping there was another crypto currency worth mining but there isn't anything near Ethereum atm but I guess there could be?

I was wondering what everyone else is mining if not Ethereum or Bitcoin and what everyone else will be doing with there rigs or rig farms once the above two simply get to hard or just aren't possible

 

[Archaea]

This was my thinking regarding selling on hardware if need be. Whattomine is also stating that Nicehash is the way to go if and once Ethereum hits the next phase. I guess its a risk like anything though isn't it. Property, stocks and shares etc etc. I was hoping there was another crypto currency worth mining but there isn't anything near Ethereum atm but I guess there could be?

I was wondering what everyone else is mining if not Ethereum or Bitcoin and what everyone else will be doing with there rigs or rig farms once the above two simply get to hard or just aren't possible

No one is mining BTC with GPUs now, only ASICS are profitable against BTC. ETH is still profitable with GPUs, so basically with nicehash, you are selling your hashing power to someone who is trying to accumulate huge hashing power to win the block rewards in ETH, and you are getting paid by the buyer in BTC. (But you aren’t mining BTC). You can’t because any GPU hashing power directly against BTC would be completely insignificant and never profitable.

Because ETH is currently the most profitable, right now, most miners will target ETH. As more miners target ETH every day, global hashrate will increase, and profits per miner will go down. The only way ETH is just as profitable tomorrow as more miners target it is if the value of ETH continues to skyrocket. Will that happen? My guess is no. You realize the global shortage on cards, even used, for the last two generations of cards right now is because everyone and their brother is trying to buy the cards to mine ETH. Also ETH is up huge, basically highest value of all time. Is that warranted on the token’s news and technology? Probably not. If ETHs value falls, so do mining profits. So yeah. Do look at plan B. Right now it’s Octopus. The flavor of the month. 2/3 to 3/4 as profitable currently and it falls off hard from there as to other tokens profitability.

Really as I look at that myself, 2017 mining was more lucrative because you had multiple options to mine and multiple tokens were in the equitable profitability range. Now it’s pretty much just ETH. And the 3rd or 4th coin down the list (and below) is barely profitable at all. Whereas in 2017 maybe there were 6-8 tokens that were quite profitable and vying for your mining efforts.

I’m not advising don’t do it. I’m advising do it, if you can get the cards RIGHT now because there is little risk, since you could just resell the cards if not profitable —but just go in with eyes open, because three months from now will most certainly look very different. And don’t overpay for your mining equipment with the expectation those profits that are currently showing are steady state for medium or long term. They aren’t — and if you go in with that assumption and overpay on all your gear, you will lose your shirt. Think of the current mining profits as only short term. Likely a month or two. Develop your plan B and plan C from there.

Again, just three months ago mining at .16 KWH was not profitable ebough to be worth your investment if trying to cash out and cover electrical cost. If you knew ETH was going to skyrocket — then sure it’d have been worth your while to mine over the last year. I didn’t think ETH was going to skyrocket and so I sold all my cards over 2019 and 2020 because it wasn’t profitable against the cost my .11-.13kwh electricity. If you aren’t confident in a coins future you don’t continue to mine at a day to day loss in electricity cost over profits.

unless you had free or very cheap electricity over most of 2019 and 2020, ETH mining was not profitable. I know about a dozen guys who mine personally. All but two closed up their mining efforts over that time, and one of the two scaled way back from like 30 cards to 2 cards (two 1070) that he just left running in his gaming/daily use machine. I didn’t even bother with that on my machine. Profits weren’t worth the hassle. They were basically pennnies a day. (If you knew ETH would skyrocket sure — but who knew?)

 

[DistortedMinds]

No one is mining BTC with GPUs now, only ASICS are profitable against BTC. ETH is still profitable with GPUs, so basically with nicehash, you are selling your hashing power to someone who is trying to accumulate huge hashing power to win the block rewards in ETH, and you are getting paid by the buyer in BTC. (But you aren’t mining BTC). You can’t because any GPU hashing power directly against BTC would be completely insignificant and never profitable.

Because ETH is currently the most profitable, right now, most miners will target ETH. As more miners target ETH every day, global hashrate will increase, and profits per miner will go down. The only way ETH is just as profitable tomorrow as more miners target it is if the value of ETH continues to skyrocket. Will that happen? My guess is no. You realize the global shortage on cards, even used, for the last two generations of cards right now is because everyone and their brother is trying to buy the cards to mine ETH. Also ETH is up huge, basically highest value of all time. Is that warranted on the token’s news and technology? Probably not. If ETHs value falls, so do mining profits. So yeah. Do look at plan B. Right now it’s Octopus. The flavor of the month. 2/3 to 3/4 as profitable currently and it falls off hard from there as to other tokens profitability.

Really as I look at that myself, 2017 mining was more lucrative because you had multiple options to mine and multiple tokens were in the equitable profitability range. Now it’s pretty much just ETH. And the 3rd or 4th coin down the list (and below) is barely profitable at all. Whereas in 2017 maybe there were 6-8 tokens that were quite profitable and vying for your mining efforts.

I’m not advising don’t do it. I’m advising do it, if you can get the cards RIGHT now because there is little risk, since you could just resell the cards if not profitable —but just go in with eyes open, because three months from now will most certainly look very different. And don’t overpay for your mining equipment with the expectation those profits that are currently showing are steady state for medium or long term. They aren’t — and if you go in with that assumption and overpay on all your gear, you will lose your shirt. Think of the current mining profits as only short term. Likely a month or two. Develop your plan B and plan C from there.

Again, just three months ago mining at .16 KWH was not profitable ebough to be worth your investment if trying to cash out and cover electrical cost. If you knew ETH was going to skyrocket — then sure it’d have been worth your while to mine over the last year. I didn’t think ETH was going to skyrocket and so I sold all my cards over 2019 and 2020 because it wasn’t profitable against the cost my .11-.13kwh electricity. If you aren’t confident in a coins future you don’t continue to mine at a day to day loss in electricity cost over profits.

unless you had free or very cheap electricity over most of 2019 and 2020, ETH mining was not profitable. I know about a dozen guys who mine personally. All but two closed up their mining efforts over that time, and one of the two scaled way back from like 30 cards to 2 cards (two 1070) that he just left running in his gaming/daily use machine. I didn’t even bother with that on my machine. Profits weren’t worth the hassle. They were basically pennnies a day. (If you knew ETH would skyrocket sure — but who knew?)

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Thank you for your response, I really appreciate it.

I think for this to work, I'd have to get hold of the additional parts and 12 x GPU's in the next couple of weeks, get mining ETH whilst I can, sell what I mine to pay off the rig as much as possible, set up a solar supply so electricity is no longer an issue and in the future once ETH moves onto ETH 2.0, move onto mining something else if that does come up, rent out my hash rate or simply sell the hardware.

I guess that is plan A, B and C and if I could mine enough that the rig is not far from being paid off along with the solar set up then having it sitting there for even a couple of years wouldn't be an issue. ETH wasn't worth anything a couple years back so who's to say there won't be another one like that on the way in which case I'd be ready to go.

 

[DistortedMinds]

What about going down the Asics route and having a smaller rig mining BTC?

I know there's people out there with huge set ups but would a £10,000 ASICS set up generate a decent profit?

 

[Archaea]

What about going down the Asics route and having a smaller rig mining BTC?

I know there's people out there with huge set ups but would a £10,000 ASICS set up generate a decent profit?

ASICS released by Bitmain are almost always profitable for at least six months. If if you buy one at launch you’ll almost surely come out ahead. After that it’s a crap shoot. There is only one direction BTC hashing difficulty goes. UP. So that means more competition and less profits month after month always. And your electricity cost stays the same. If you can get in on a launch of a new asic and buy it directly from bitmain, you can almost always come out ahead, if you buy it used or at a third party vendor markup you will almost always come out behind. When an asic stops being profitable it’s worth nothing. By contrast, a video card is almost always worth something on the used market. If you know these caveats you’ll be okay. I’ve used both. ASICS are super easy to use and setup. They are like money printing machines during those first six to nine months. Also bear in mind most people think bitmain purposely mines on their asic until they think there is about 6-9months more profit left in their lifecycle — then they announce and sell that model to the public and begin replacing their internal mining systems with the new model they are “developing”. Global hash rates seem to show this trend. Hashrates jump big about 6-9 months before a new asic model is released to the public by bitmain. Bitmain has a delicate balancing act because they want to sell the old models while they are still actually profitable, and make them lucrative, keep up brand name, but they don’t want it to be too profitable or they would just keep it themselves and mine with it in their enormous facilities. They get to design and use their antminers while most profitable and then sell them to the public used and depreciated for still more than cost to use. It’s a unique business model.

Check out this site.
Don’t forget to plug in your electricity price at the bottom.
https://www.asicminervalue.com/

 

[oblox]

What about going down the Asics route and having a smaller rig mining BTC?

I know there's people out there with huge set ups but would a £10,000 ASICS set up generate a decent profit?

With your power cost, GPU mining would give you far more optionality than ASICs. The ASIC game is about being part of the first batches as they become glorified paperweights as newer and newer generations of more efficient miners are released. There also happens to be a massive shortage in them right now.

 

[Andrew_Carr]

I think ASICs are ok to buy for bitcoin mining, but understand that like other posters mentioned:

1.) You're only usually profitable for about the first six months after release of a new ASIC. If you're mining at home and can use the waste heat for something useful (water heating or heating rooms during winter or something) you can probably remain profitable longer. But from what I've seen, the major players are always going to have first dibs on new ASICs and it'll be difficult for you to buy one in time so you'll have less time than optimal to use yours.
2.) Your electricity costs are really high, so that might price you out even at the beginning.
3.) If you're looking for quick returns it's a riskier strategy. You can always resell GPUs at a loss or use them in gaming rigs. An unprofitable ASIC miner is basically worthless except as a loud toy.

Let's say you bought an S19 pro for $3800. At approximately $0.22/kWh you're earning $13.65 or so a day currently. So you'd need about 280 days to repay that and then everything else is profit The problem is that bitcoin is at historically high prices which might not last. And even if it stays at the same all time high price, if a new ASIC comes along you would be unprofitable after a typical 180 day best case scenario and you would only ever earn $2,457 per miner. So while at the previous price of $1897 it would've made sense to try, at this point it probably doesn't. Bitcoin prices might fall in the short term and ASIC preorders are fully booked for the next 6 months so it probably doesn't make sense unless you plan to mine at a loss and hope for Bitcoin to go above $48k someday (I think it will, but you might have to wait years, and even then it might be better to just buy the coins with your $10k).

ETH mining with 3xxx series cards or something makes much more sense IMO. You'll be making more per card per day, you'll pay 1/3rd to 1/4th of the cost per miner, and if ETH goes to 0 tomorrow and your mining rigs become unprofitable, at least they'll still have some value to non-miners so you're not risking 100% of your capital investment.

 

[DistortedMinds]

Managed to get hold of 2 x 3070s which should be here today just to get us up and running. We're fully aware of the risk but we've had a big discussion between ourselves (me and my rig partner) and we're just going to go ahead with it as we generally want to get into mining anyway regardless of Ethereum.

Hopefully we can at least get back some of the cost back which so far totals at £2346.43 and that's everything but a few little things like a HDD, wattage monitor, USB risers, power button and a USB crypto wallet. That's not bad going considering we've got some good quality components. I think those items should only cost another £100-£200 roughly and then its just more GPUs and then focusing on a solar kit. Our plan isn't short term its entirely long term and regardless of what happens this kit is all worth money anyway so onwards and upwards......hopefully

 

[oldmanbal]

Or you could just skip the entire make money now idea, and just buy the respective, say, 10k worth of bitcoin now and sit on it for a few years.

I almost never take any money out of what i've mined, and it has grown exponentially higher than what I would have mined in the short term. A few years can be quite mind blowing if you've forgotten about an account for awhile.