Mid-budget desktop for gaming and other use.

S

Senryo

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 11, 2009
Messages
183
1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Although the classification is "anything I can throw at it", main usage will be web browsing, gaming, video reencoding, and programming. I'd also like a more quiet rig.
2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
Preferred budget under $800, max hard limit is $1k (USD). This includes tax/ship.
3) Where do you live?
Omaha, NE, USA
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
CPU, Motherboard, PSU, RAM, Video Card, Wireless N card, Thermal Paste, Blu-ray drive (depending on cost, writer if I'm lucky!). Need PATA on Motherboard.
possible SSD drive, a dedicated sound card is preferred, UPS along the road, 3rd party CPU heatsink/fan if necessary.
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
Keyboard/Mouse: Logitek S 510
Printer: HP C5550
Speakers: Advent 2.1 system
DVD-RW: Pioneer. I want to say A07 or A08.
possibly the case: Cooler Master TAC-T01 "Wave Master"
6) Will you be overclocking?
I'd like to >: ), but not a necessity
7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?
A 22" would be nice
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
This summer, over the next few months, unless waiting for newer tech is a better idea.
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? etc.
USB 3.0, enough PCI(-e) slots for extra parts, prefer AMD over Intel, but open to options
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If so, what OS? 32bit or 64bit?
I do not, but I will be getting a 64-bit OS. Duel-boot Win7 Ult-64 and a Linux distro that agrees with me (after 5 years of searching still struggling).


I've been looking around and have found a few things I'm leaning toward:
CPU: Phenom II 1055T, or Intel equivalent. Hexacore screams "buy meeeee" haha. I'd like to keep this computer around for a while as well.
PSU: Corsair HX650 or TX650. Big debate is whether or not I have cable clutter. Always seems to be my misfortune somehow, so the modular seems appealing.
Video Card: ATi Radeon 5770, 5830, or 5850. I'm not sure which to choose, but DX11 is a must. I read Civ V requires (or maybe recommends?) it, and that's the motivation behind DX11.
Monitor: Dell 2209WA or U2211H. Big dilemma between 16:10 and 16:9, as well as LG's QC issues.
Motherboard: Not sure in this direction, but Gigabyte has done more good for me in the past. Not looking for another ASUS.

Note: I haven't really been price searching yet. Looking for a parts list of things I can trade around, weigh +/-, and then start looking and see what I can afford. I guess I like to keep my options open when I got price hunting so I don't get disappointed :)

Thank you in advance!
 
Can you narrow down or move up when exactly you're gonna build the PC? "This Summer" doesn't really help as that could be as late as August. In which case, that would be too far away to start recommending parts. In addition, it's rarely a good idea to build a PC over several months unless there was a significant deal for that part. It's usually better to just buy the PCin one go.

Also you're missing a Hard drive from question 4 and 5. Will you be buying a new drive or reusing an old drive for storage?
 
Virtually all motherboards sold today have one PATA port capable of supporting two IDE/ATA devices. Are you using more than two IDE/ATA devices?

For clarification, is a monitor a required part of this purchase? (You said that "[a] 22" [monitor] would be nice.") What monitor are you (re)using right now?

Why do you want a dedicated sound card? Today's onboard audio has progressed to the point that it's a decent option for all but the most sensitive audiophiles.
 
tiraides said:
Why do you want a dedicated sound card? Today's onboard audio has progressed to the point that it's a decent option for all but the most sensitive audiophiles.
Click to expand...

I have to agree with this, most modern mobos have very decent onboard integrated sound options.
 
Danny Bui said:
Can you narrow down or move up when exactly you're gonna build the PC? "This Summer" doesn't really help as that could be as late as August. In which case, that would be too far away to start recommending parts. In addition, it's rarely a good idea to build a PC over several months unless there was a significant deal for that part. It's usually better to just buy the PCin one go.

Also you're missing a Hard drive from question 4 and 5. Will you be buying a new drive or reusing an old drive for storage?
Click to expand...

I apologize for being vague on the time, because I'm not sure myself. Got myself an intern job that's 6a-3:30p and I'm asleep by 8:30p or 9:00p. Don't have much time to myself it seems haha, not used to it. I was thinking end of June/beginning of July if time permits, so we'll go with end of June as a preferred deadline. I return to University on the 20th of August, so I'd like it stable before then as a hard deadline, otherwise I'll be waiting longer.

I did forget the HD storage, oops! I'll have to investigate a bit more tonight into my hard drives, but IIRC I can use a WD 500gb drive that is SATA for a while until my budget increases a little or SSD drives go down in price.

tiraides said:
Virtually all motherboards sold today have one PATA port capable of supporting two IDE/ATA devices. Are you using more than two IDE/ATA devices?

For clarification, is a monitor a required part of this purchase? (You said that "[a] 22" [monitor] would be nice.") What monitor are you (re)using right now?

Why do you want a dedicated sound card? Today's onboard audio has progressed to the point that it's a decent option for all but the most sensitive audiophiles.
Click to expand...

I'm glad to see PATA ports are still around. My DVD drive is still PATA, and I'll be reusing that. I'll check when I get home what the Hard Drive situation is and have more info then.

I currently have a 19" CRT Monitor that came with a Micron computer 10 years ago (PIII 933MHz) (I believe the monitor is an MX700 if that means anything). I don't know how acurate the colors are, and the view screen is a bit small. I figured since I'm upgrading my PC I should upgrade my visual as well, but it's not a manditory upgrade.

I haven't followed Sound Card quality in a while, so it's good to hear that about onboard sound. I was under the impression that onboard sound stole clock cycles from the CPU to drive function, and every FLOPS counts to me. But then I guess everything does to an extent. Also, Realtek drivers have been difficult for me in the past in Linux so I was hoping Creative had a better success rate.

Once again I apologize for any lack of information or vagueness. I tend to go to extremes with decisions: indecisiveness or impulsiveness. Computers are something I love so I want the best I can get, but I want to know all my options as well. Right now I'm a little overwhelmed with all the information out there and trying to figure out how trustworthy it is. Any [H]andy advice is much appreciated! I'm not trying to be difficult, just open-minded and flexible. I want to learn from the best :) then keep track of things on my own when possible.
 
Wait is the cost of OS part of that budget as well?
 
Assuming that you're buying near the end of June and that you have a reusable HDD:

$290 - AMD Phenom II X6 1055T CPU + Gigabyte GA-870A-UD3 AMD 870 ATX Motherboard
$110 - G.Skill Ripjaw Series F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL 2 x 2GB DDR3 1600 RAM
$305 - XFX HD-577A-ZNFC Radeon HD 5830 1GB PCI-E Video Card + XFX P1-650X-CAG9 650W Modular PSU
---
Total: $705 plus tax and shipping

There's just enough room for the either of the two monitors you're looking. Do note that the above combo deals are only valid for the month of June. As such, you have have to downgrade the GPU to a HD 5770 should a similar combo deal not be available at that time.

EDIT: Damn, forgot about the wireless N card and the blu-ray drive. Also any chance of you being able to modify that Coolermaster case to accept 120mm fans? Working on a new setup now.
 
Danny Bui said:
Assuming that you're buying near the end of June and that you have a reusable HDD:

$290 - AMD Phenom II X6 1055T CPU + Gigabyte GA-870A-UD3 AMD 870 ATX Motherboard
$110 - G.Skill Ripjaw Series F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL 2 x 2GB DDR3 1600 RAM
$305 - XFX HD-577A-ZNFC Radeon HD 5830 1GB PCI-E Video Card + XFX P1-650X-CAG9 650W Modular PSU
---
Total: $705 plus tax and shipping

There's just enough room for the either of the two monitors you're looking. Do note that the above combo deals are only valid for the month of June. As such, you have have to downgrade the GPU to a HD 5770 should a similar combo deal not be available at that time.

EDIT: Damn, forgot about the wireless N card and the blu-ray drive. Also any chance of you being able to modify that Coolermaster case to accept 120mm fans? Working on a new setup now.
Click to expand...

The CoolerMaster case has specilized detailing on it as a gift from my parents, so... no there's not really a way I can mod it. I suppose I should get a new case and just leave the 939 setup I have in there right now.

That motherboard/CPU bundle is a great deal, I'd love to pounce on it for sure. I suppose I can wait for the Blu-ray drive. I don't think that is that fast-paced of a tech area for me to get it quick before it changes. Little hesitant about the RAM though. I trust you; I just haven't seen that manufacturer before in the [H]igher quality areas of RAM.
 
Yeah you're looking at a new case well then. The 80mm fans are insufficient IMO to cool a new system these days.

As for the RAM, over the past 4 years, G.Skill has gone up as one of the best RAM manufacturers in the world. In fact, if you were to check every single build listed in this part of the forum for the past 3 years, more than likely 90% of those had G.Skill RAM. So yeah, G.Skill is fairly reliable and well recommended.

Second try:
$290 - AMD Phenom II X6 1055T CPU + Gigabyte GA-870A-UD3 AMD 870 ATX Motherboard
$110 - G.Skill Ripjaw Series F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL 2 x 2GB DDR3 1600 RAM
$245 - XFX HD-577A-ZNFC Radeon HD 5770 1GB PCI-E Video Card + XFX P1-650X-CAG9 650W Modular PSU
$80 - Cooler Master RC-690-KKN1-GP ATX Case
---
Total: $727 plus tax and shipping

Should be enough room for the monitor and a wireless N card.
 
While looking at other threads for ideas and more information, I stumbled upon a few things. Firstly, I am 90% sure the 500gb drive I stated I have earlier is the Western Digital WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive. It's a nice drive, I like it very much, but I was somewhat hoping to make it a secondary drive instead of a primary drive. How much of a performance boost would I gain from getting an SSD 6.0Gb/s (if they exist yet)?

Secondly, I think I found the answer to my thermal paste question. The MX-2 seems to get great reviews, and I love that it doesn't have to cure.

Thirdly, heat sinks are very confusing. Will the stock HS&F be quiet and effecient enough for some mid-range overclocking? If not, what's a good, quiet HS&F that will cool well, fit in the case, and not be too costly?

Finally, I'm debating about bumping up the GPU to the 5830 for the extra $60. Is the price/performance ratio bump closer to ideal than the 5770?

Thanks guys, I really appreciate it. I'll say when I buy all the parts, make a slide show of putting it together (linked, not posted), and post a few performance pics when I'm done.
 
Senryo said:
While looking at other threads for ideas and more information, I stumbled upon a few things. Firstly, I am 90% sure the 500gb drive I stated I have earlier is the Western Digital WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive. It's a nice drive, I like it very much, but I was somewhat hoping to make it a secondary drive instead of a primary drive. How much of a performance boost would I gain from getting an SSD 6.0Gb/s (if they exist yet)?
............
Thirdly, heat sinks are very confusing. Will the stock HS&F be quiet and effecient enough for some mid-range overclocking? If not, what's a good, quiet HS&F that will cool well, fit in the case, and not be too costly?

Finally, I'm debating about bumping up the GPU to the 5830 for the extra $60. Is the price/performance ratio bump closer to ideal than the 5770?
Click to expand...

There are in fact two SATA 6Gb/s SSD. However their price is roughly half your $800 budget. So not really worth it unless you have a $1500/$2000 budget. However SSDs, in general and even the SATA 3.0Gb/s ones, do provide a significant performance increase over current mechanical drives. How big of a performance increase varies from SSD controller to SSD controller, whether you need a higher read or write speed or random read/write speeds, etc, etc.

However, you do not have enough room in your $1000 budget for a SSD, even a cheap one, if you're still going for either of those Dell monitors. So either up your budget or go with cheaper/lower quality LCD monitors.

I recommend this HSF over the stock HSF for oveclocking:
$30 - Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus HSF for LGA 1366 and LGA 1156

However, you do not have enough room in your $1000 budget for a HSF if you're still going for either of those Dell monitors. So either up your budget or go with cheaper/lower quality LCD monitors.

Both the HD 5830 and HD 5770 have good price to performance ratios. However it depends on their price: The highest you should pay for a HD 5770 is $170. The highest you should pay for a HD 5830 is $230 to $240. Any higher than those prices and you're overpaying. Not to mention a crappier price to performance ratio.

However, you do not have enough room in your $1000 budget for a HD 5830 if you're still going for either of those Dell monitors. So either up your budget or go with cheaper/lower quality LCD monitors.
 
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Danny Bui said:
I recommend this HSF over the stock HSF for oveclocking:
$30 - Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus HSF for LGA 1366 and LGA 1156

However, you do not have enough room in your $1000 budget for a HSF if you're still going for either of those Dell monitors. So either up your budget or go with cheaper/lower quality LCD monitors.
Click to expand...

first, check if your cpu comes with HSF. I just bought an intel I7-875K and it doesn't have one, so I have to buy one no matter if I decide to overclock or not.
Secondly, I could be wrong, but Hyper 212 might be only for intel boards? check it up before you buy it. Also, Amazon's site says ship in 1-3 months. If you want a cheaper version, use Provantage for it. I just ordered mine today, ill tell you what they say tmrw when they process it.

Danny Bui said:
Both the HD 5830 and HD 5770 have good price to performance ratios. However it depends on their price: The highest you should pay for a HD 5770 is $170. The highest you should pay for a HD 5830 is $230 to $240. Any higher than those prices and you're overpaying. Not to mention a crappier price to performance ratio.
Click to expand...

If you're not in a rush, XFX Radeon 5770 are occasionally on sale at the $150 pricepoint, which is great (I got mine at Tiger direct for $150 and waiting on $18 bing cashback). Since you'll probably inevitably ask, MSI Hawk is supposed to be the best for overclocking/performance. But otherwise, almost buy whatever brand you find cheapest or looks the coolest (odd criteria, but for some, it's valid). For your budget, you might be able to get a 5800+, though you might have to sacrifice elsewhere.
 
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After some debate and thinking, I've decided to just focus on the tower/computer itself for now. Thus the monitor is no longer in the picture, and the hard budget is now $800. I think this will offer a little more flexibility in some things I'd like to have.

I suppose I should have mentioned a little more about longevity. I'd like this computer to last me at least 3 years, so that's why I'm leaning more toward the 5830, X6, USB 3.0, and SSD. And in general I like to know things.

Sorry Danny Bui if my questions were rude or ignorant. I didn't mean to offend. I am usually the type of person that likes to know a little more about the options and decisions than just go with decisions.
 
Senryo said:
Sorry Danny Bui if my questions were rude or ignorant. I didn't mean to offend. I am usually the type of person that likes to know a little more about the options and decisions than just go with decisions.
Click to expand...

No offense taken. Just had to make sure that you understood the consequences of a certain part choice.

Anyway, that new $800 budget actually doesn't make things any better. If you look at my second try build, there was only $73 left out of a $800. That would only cover the cost of upgrading to the HD 5830/XFX PSU combo here:
$305 - XFX HD-577A-ZNFC Radeon HD 5830 1GB PCI-E Video Card + XFX P1-650X-CAG9 650W Modular PSU

Not enough room for a SSD unless we downgraded the GPU back to a HD 5770, downgraded the CPU to a Phenom II 955, and downgraded the RAM to 2GB.

Also, are you planning on reusing a monitor or something? Or are you planning on buying the monitor at the same time as the PC? In other words, what are your plans, monitor wise?
 
I think for the monitor I'll just use my 19" CRT for a little while longer. I can push it to 1920x960 at 72Hz so it's fine for now. Maybe later in the summer when I know what my full funds will be I'll look into the monitor a bit more. I often the display section so I'll be sure to be abreast of anything fun that happens there.

That video card upgrade makes me feel more comfortable, so I'll be sure to pounce on that when I buy the system. Gotta admit I'm pretty stoked about this! Thanks for all your [H]elp, and thank you for finding specific parts Danny Bui. It's a bit of a tedious task sometimes, and I appreciate it.
 
Code: 
Item List:
1 x ($19.99) WIRELESS ADAPTER ENCORE|ENLWI-NX2 R     $19.99
1 x ($25.99) DVD BURNER LITE-ON | IHAS424-98 R       $25.99
1 x ($107.00) MEM 2Gx2|GSKILL F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL     $107.00
1 x ($79.99) CASE CM|RC-690-KKN1-GP BK RT            $79.99
1 x ($199.99) CPU AMD|PH II X6 1055T 2.8 G AM3 RT    $199.99
1 x ($94.99) MB GIGABYTE GA-870A-UD3 RT              $94.99
1 x ($99.99) PSU XFX|P1-650X-CAG9 650W RT            $99.99
1 x ($229.99) VGA XFX|HD-583X-ZNFV HD5830 1G DDR5    $229.99

1 x ($-35.00) DISCOUNT FOR COMBO #421100             $-35.00
1 x ($-10.00) DISCOUNT FOR COMBO #424103             $-10.00

1 x ($-19.50) DISCOUNT FOR PROMOTION CODE            $-19.50

Payment Summary:

Subtotal:               $793.43
Tax:                    $0.00
Shipping and Handling:  $9.67
Rush Order:             $2.99
Total Amount:           $806.09

I couldn't help myself, I saw how cheap the rush order was and got excited. Also, earlier this week, I bought a U2211H. It arrived today, and oh man am I excited! Can't wait to post pics =D
 
I apologize for not posting pics yet. The rig (I've named Cray3on) is built and running (ish). No hardware issues yet! I'll post my impressions later (tonight, Central Time) and pictures of the build. I've been so busy with work and distracted with playing with it that I've not really gotten around to transferring the pictures from camera to web yet.

I don't want you to think I'm unappreciative! :)
 
Couple problems.

First, someone cleared the memory card of the camera I used to take the pictures, so I still have to find where they went. We don't just delete the pictures; we back them up before we clear any memory cards so no worries there.

Secondly, the computer locks up randomly. I mean hard-locks: nothing moves. Once it locked up during a youtube video and it repeated a .1s sound rapidly, which is a lot smaller buffer than I usually see during lock ups. These lock ups happen at any time: booting, game playing, going to "sleep" (not hibernate), idling... the list could be longer but it's very inconsistent. I think I've narrowed it down to 2 possibilities: Hard Drive or RAM. I've reinstalled Win 7 Pro 3 times without much help.

Reasoning behind Hard Drive: My first Win7 install would lock up randomly as described above but very frequently. After these lock ups, booting would always cause an additional lock up to occur (even into safe mode). Resetting the computer after this flagged the Windows start-up correction software to trigger. It would give me a warning that hard drive problems could cause these errors. After the second install, I could reboot to Win7 after any lock up. I DLed the Western Digital Hard drive, and it said everything was fine with the drive after both quick and extensive disk checks. It was still locking up, and I recalled it locking up once during a driver install, so I reinstalled again, this time formatting the drive to clear all left-over data (there were some left over files from before it was put into this computer). However, even now, it still locks up randomly.

RAM: Firstly, I've run into problems like this before with Blackbox. The Corsair RAM required a voltage of 2.75v, and ASUS BIOS decided that it was just fine at 2.5v. After a lot of troubleshooting, bluescreens, reinstalls of Win XP, and finally reading more about the RAM, I discovered the under-voltage problem. I looked up my RAM on the G.Skill website and it says it requires 1.5v. That's what my current RAM is set to, though it's actually receiving 1.488v. Should I increase the voltage?

I was going to run memtest all day but I ran out of time to get it running this morning. I'll also post the S.M.A.R.T. data WD shows when I get home. Anything else I should question?
 
Up the RAM voltage to 1.5V. But Hard locks are usually indicative of a hard drive or mobo issue in my experience. It could also mean improper CPU voltage.

However, test the GPU as well. Run Furmark to load up the GPU and watch if the system hardlocks there.
 
I changed some of the voltage settings. The RAM now runs at 1600 and 1.502v, while the CPU runs at 1.472v (It was at 1.448, so I increased it by .025 to make sure it had the minimum). I think it's interesting that the board will say to give the component a certain number, but the actual voltage getting to that component is less. Could be a red flag?

In Windows, I used Furmark and BurnIn Testing.

Furmark I ran for 30 minutes, it performed fine. I even did a benchmark: 1632 I think was the final result. This card puts out some very pretty graphics. It also got up to 91c, but usually stayed at 89-90c under heavy load. Is that a good temp?

Then I went to BIT. I went systematically through each component, taking 15 minutes each: CPU, RAM, Hard Drive, 2D graphics, then Sound. All went through with no errors at all and passed. So I decided to bench them again but all at the same time: 14s later hard-lock. This seems to point to a Mobo problem imo. If the mobo can't handle all the parts talking to it at once then something's wrong.

Looks like I'll be calling Gigabyte tomorrow. Thanks Danny
 
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