Microsoft Xbox 360 @ [H]

bruenor said:
OK, from the original Bloomberg article I will point out the facts:

" Microsoft used Boeing Co. 747 freight airplanes to rush the machines to the U.S. from factories in China." - Notice the word "rush" there, and using Boeing's to get your product to market just barely in time is about the definition of a rushed product.

``We're not going to name some magic number but we're out to give the best gaming experience.'' - Slightly different than the 10 Billion units they were claiming left and right leading up to release - now Gates says he won't quote a magic number, what happened to that 10 billion magic number?

``For the last six months, we've been on the edge of our seats,'' Gates said. ``I hope I don't get an e-mail saying `Gosh, processor yields are too low, or this plastic factory burned down in Malaysia, so we'll have boxes but no controllers.''' - This quote alone is the most telling of all. If you follow Bill Gates and MS, then you know this is NOT a statement you hear from Bill Gates... EVER. He is basically admitting that not only was it rushed, but that there are a number of areas of concern from manufacturing to production. When you want to sell 10 billion anything, you damn well have better confidence than this. How anyone can read this quote right from the horses mouth and deny it is beyond me.

The xbox 360 is a rushed product. I was told my initial statement on this matter was incorrect, I was simply supplying the information to show it was a correct statement.

I see a full recall in the weeks following Christmas if the defect numbers keep up, once the product is cleaned up and core issues are dealt with then the Xbox 360 will do fine... but the clock is ticking and by the time average folks will have a crack at a shipment the PS3 and Revolution hype will be in full swing and things may not be so rosy for the 360. That's all I'm saying on it, all of this is speculation on my part... but it is rooted in fact and experience, in a few short months we will see how it plays out.
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I can appreciate your experience as a reviewer conveying your experiences with someone else's product. But have you ever been on the business side of a product launch? I have, and having an aggressive time to market schedule does not mean you're rushing things. Furthermore, what I garnered from that one article was that MS wasn't allowing any leeway in terms of set backs or delays from vendors. Remember, this isn't Windows we're talking about here, this isn't something being cooked up in Redmond by a bunch of MS employees. There are a lot of cooks in this kitchen, and MS IS relying that things do not happen that are out of their control.

Flying them via air means it's rushed? So a 6 week slow boat from China would somehow give you more faith in the product? This allows them to have it out in time for the holiday season, otherwise it would have been the first of the year...

As to your statement about a full recall...I haven't followed console launches nor the console industry that closely myself, but I seriously doubt MS is going to do a full product recall on something of this magnitude. I think they'll go into agressive crisis management mode and spin the problems as best they can with one hand while replacing units as fast as they can with the other.
 
it's rushed.. what company in their right mind would not rush something and turn out crap.. and by crap i mean.. a brke backwards compatibility capabillity.. i mean.. if it really wasn't rushed.. you'd think taht the X360 would be backwards compatible with all Xbox games off thebat no?

i sure think so..
 
RancidWAnnaRIot said:
it's rushed.. what company in their right mind would not rush something and turn out crap.. and by crap i mean.. a brke backwards compatibility capabillity.. i mean.. if it really wasn't rushed.. you'd think taht the X360 would be backwards compatible with all Xbox games off thebat no?

i sure think so..
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....Nice logic.
 
RancidWAnnaRIot said:
it's rushed.. what company in their right mind would not rush something and turn out crap.. and by crap i mean.. a brke backwards compatibility capabillity.. i mean.. if it really wasn't rushed.. you'd think taht the X360 would be backwards compatible with all Xbox games off thebat no?

i sure think so..
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Wow, just wow.

200+ BC games at launch is "crap". They easily could have said were not giving you any backwards compatibility. By X-mas it will probably be close to 300 games, so what will it be then? Its not like they are emulating Atari 2600 games. They are emulating that strongest console last gen and going from Nvidia to ATI.

How ridiculous...
 
a brke backwards compatibility capabillity.. i mean.. if it really wasn't rushed.. you'd think taht the X360 would be backwards compatible with all Xbox games off thebat no?
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What are you talking about? It has to be done through software thats no easy feat. The 360 is new hardware. The only reason the PS2 was bc was because it had a PSX proc inside and switched between the two. The PS2 did hardware BC but we cant count on that forever. the 360 is a new console BC is something realativly new. SNES didnt have it, Game cube didnt, N64 didnt, the Dream Cast Didnt.
 
lets see we are going from an nvidia card that games where very very specificly written to take advantage of to an ati card. thats not such an easy feat
 
rayg said:
....Nice logic.
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thank you lol :eek: ;)

nah.. just trying to spew shit out. to stir the pot

i really didn't know what i was talking about...

but.. on a side note.. my personal opinion is... the Xbox sounds like thre's a lot of bullshit going on with it.. so i'll just hold out.. anyway.. not like i have the money for it
 
Chris_Morley said:
I can appreciate your experience as a reviewer conveying your experiences with someone else's product. But have you ever been on the business side of a product launch? I have, and having an aggressive time to market schedule does not mean you're rushing things. Furthermore, what I garnered from that one article was that MS wasn't allowing any leeway in terms of set backs or delays from vendors. Remember, this isn't Windows we're talking about here, this isn't something being cooked up in Redmond by a bunch of MS employees. There are a lot of cooks in this kitchen, and MS IS relying that things do not happen that are out of their control.

Flying them via air means it's rushed? So a 6 week slow boat from China would somehow give you more faith in the product? This allows them to have it out in time for the holiday season, otherwise it would have been the first of the year...

As to your statement about a full recall...I haven't followed console launches nor the console industry that closely myself, but I seriously doubt MS is going to do a full product recall on something of this magnitude. I think they'll go into agressive crisis management mode and spin the problems as best they can with one hand while replacing units as fast as they can with the other.
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The 10 billion number I was using was to be facetious, the actual quote was 10 Million Units by 2006.. which is just as outrageous and absurd as 10 Billion. "Microsoft corporate vice president Peter Moore has given the first firm indications of the company's sales ambitions for the Xbox 360 over the coming year, which see ten million consoles being shipped by the end of 2006." he also said that 2.5-3 million would ship in the first 90 days.

I Have been part of many product launches, and in fact was an alpha hardware tester for the Xbox 360. So I'm not taking sides or have a favorite console in this next-gen race. I do have quite a fair bit of experience in the busines side of console launches and am quite qualified to state that this one was rushed. No one at MS would even deny this fact, so I find it funny how here everyone is an expert.

No company, especially MS, releases any product with so much marketing with so many unknowns. None. Companies like MS are very risk adverse and conservative, this type of product launch is very bad for investors and valuations. To think otherwise again is laughable. Yes, a slow boat from china with fully running production facilities and product stocks DO show a product that is ready to ship... none of those exist here. Grabbing the very first product off the line, with little to no QC done and flying them here in a 747 last minute is about the WORST possible scenario for a product launch. To give you some Idea, I and many other hardware testers have been working with MS on a number of the EXACT same issues that these first 360's are suffering from. Very little was done to fix these issues, and only a few minor software fixes were done and a fan modification - to my knowledge - from the hundreds of issues experienced in hardware testing. issues like games freezing, hard drive corruption, overheating, loud fan noise, scratched discs, and more have been known for some time... to make it into a final product is inexcusable in my eyes.

My statement about a full recall is just a guess on my part, it is the only thing I have stated so far that is solely based on my opinion. You have to realize how much MS is crossing their fingers right now. Many release day 360's sit wrapped awaiting Saint Nick... so while they are able to manage the complaints now when Christmas day rolls around and another round of complaints hits they will have to react in a big way for damage control. Just think about it. They have round one of bad press now, and this product was one of the only "must have" products this Christmas, the media will have a field day on Christmas and the day after when little Johnny and Suzy are crying and mom and dad are pissed. Consumer confidence will be shot at that point and no one will be in line for the next shipment in Feb. many will wait to see the PS3 and Revolution... and you bet your sweet booty that Sony will be ready to pounce on this. MS's only choice will be a recall on some scale, most likely a complete one.
 
Being an alpha tester is far different from being involved in product management. You are reaching on a few of your statements. To equate using 747's to fly in the consoles with a lack of QC is a non-sequitur in my book.

I can appreciate that you have a level of experience with the 360 that I do not, and your insight is very interesting. All I'm saying is that you're making a lot of sweeping generalizations for not being in upper MS management.
 
I know some people who work in the gaming industry and a number of their beta kits arrived either DOA, started flashing red lights after a few weeks of use or simply completely died after a few weeks. Now the percentage isn't that high, probably like 5% or less, but I could guess that if beta kits were still having these problems (in sept), then it would most likely trickle out into the retail kits as well. While I believe M$ when they say the numbers are small relative to the number of consoles out there, they are real and I hope M$ fixes these problems in the upcoming revisions.
 
bruenor said:
The 10 billion number I was using was to be facetious, the actual quote was 10 Million Units by 2006.. which is just as outrageous and absurd as 10 Billion. "Microsoft corporate vice president Peter Moore has given the first firm indications of the company's sales ambitions for the Xbox 360 over the coming year, which see ten million consoles being shipped by the end of 2006." he also said that 2.5-3 million would ship in the first 90 days.

I Have been part of many product launches, and in fact was an alpha hardware tester for the Xbox 360. So I'm not taking sides or have a favorite console in this next-gen race. I do have quite a fair bit of experience in the busines side of console launches and am quite qualified to state that this one was rushed. No one at MS would even deny this fact, so I find it funny how here everyone is an expert.

No company, especially MS, releases any product with so much marketing with so many unknowns. None. Companies like MS are very risk adverse and conservative, this type of product launch is very bad for investors and valuations. To think otherwise again is laughable. Yes, a slow boat from china with fully running production facilities and product stocks DO show a product that is ready to ship... none of those exist here. Grabbing the very first product off the line, with little to no QC done and flying them here in a 747 last minute is about the WORST possible scenario for a product launch. To give you some Idea, I and many other hardware testers have been working with MS on a number of the EXACT same issues that these first 360's are suffering from. Very little was done to fix these issues, and only a few minor software fixes were done and a fan modification - to my knowledge - from the hundreds of issues experienced in hardware testing. issues like games freezing, hard drive corruption, overheating, loud fan noise, scratched discs, and more have been known for some time... to make it into a final product is inexcusable in my eyes.

My statement about a full recall is just a guess on my part, it is the only thing I have stated so far that is solely based on my opinion. You have to realize how much MS is crossing their fingers right now. Many release day 360's sit wrapped awaiting Saint Nick... so while they are able to manage the complaints now when Christmas day rolls around and another round of complaints hits they will have to react in a big way for damage control. Just think about it. They have round one of bad press now, and this product was one of the only "must have" products this Christmas, the media will have a field day on Christmas and the day after when little Johnny and Suzy are crying and mom and dad are pissed. Consumer confidence will be shot at that point and no one will be in line for the next shipment in Feb. many will wait to see the PS3 and Revolution... and you bet your sweet booty that Sony will be ready to pounce on this. MS's only choice will be a recall on some scale, most likely a complete one.
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Hmm, considering you used the term 10 billion a total of 3 times in your post I sort of doubt you were kidding. But hey what do I know. Secondly, involvement as an alpha tester generally requires agreeing to some sort of NDA. So if in fact you were an alpha tester, which I sort of doubt, you are in all likelyhood breaking your agreement with MS by flaming them and the xbox 360 on a public forum. But hey, if you are an alpha tester you shouldn't have any trouble proving it, just post a picture or something that will leave no question.
Thirdly, I doubt the intelligence of anyone that claims to know exactly what a company, especially one as large and with as many employees as MS, is thinking. I'm an engineer, I've worked with plenty of companies. Unless you are on the inside it's impossible to know exactly what they're thinking. You might be able to make some educated guesses, sure, but thats it. To come out and state unequivocally that you know exactly whats going on in the walls of MS and you know exactly what the executives are thinking only shows your total ignorance, period.
As far as a round of "bad press". The only bad press they are getting is from sony fan-boys flaming them in forums and some bad consoles, which is pretty standard for any console launch. Turn on the tv, the mainstream media is fawning all over them. They can't supply units fast enough, people are waiting for hours outside stores hoping to score one. Whether you like it or not the 360 is the most popular item this holiday season.
 
ElBarto79 said:
Hmm, considering you used the term 10 billion a total of 3 times in your post I sort of doubt you were kidding. But hey what do I know. Secondly, involvement as an alpha tester generally requires agreeing to some sort of NDA. So if in fact you were an alpha tester, which I sort of doubt, you are in all likelyhood breaking your agreement with MS by flaming them and the xbox 360 on a public forum. But hey, if you are an alpha tester you shouldn't have any trouble proving it, just post a picture or something that will leave no question.
Thirdly, I doubt the intelligence of anyone that claims to know exactly what a company, especially one as large and with as many employees as MS, is thinking. I'm an engineer, I've worked with plenty of companies. Unless you are on the inside it's impossible to know exactly what they're thinking. You might be able to make some educated guesses, sure, but thats it. To come out and state unequivocally that you know exactly whats going on in the walls of MS and you know exactly what the executives are thinking only shows your total ignorance, period.
As far as a round of "bad press". The only bad press they are getting is from sony fan-boys flaming them in forums and some bad consoles, which is pretty standard for any console launch. Turn on the tv, the mainstream media is fawning all over them. They can't supply units fast enough, people are waiting for hours outside stores hoping to score one. Whether you like it or not the 360 is the most popular item this holiday season.
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Alright, so you can pick on a guy for claiming he was an alpha tester... but then you claim you are an engineer that works with plenty of companies. Argument 101, don't put yourself into the same unknown boat.

Mistake number two: if you don't think the X360 is getting all kinds of bad press for the media, you've been under some kind of rock or shield, where you are only seeing one side of the coin - or at the very least, you haven't been paying attention for the last few days. Initially, reports were gushing about the "must have" item of the holiday season. And less than 3 days later, the headlines turned into the "must-have X360 riddled with problems?". Even if the defects are less than 10%, news articles and stories are appearing on most major websites and news networks. The reuters article is everywhere from CNN to Yahoo News, and gaming sites were the first to pick up on these issues. I've personally seen a local evening news broadcast where the news team took their cameras to a local game store, to show the returns/exchanges of games that had all kinds of disc-scrathing (possible user-error) and warping/melting (definately not user-error). On video, on my TV. I've seen these things crash in person, and so has the major news media.

It therefore is pretty easy to believe bruenor when he says that these issues existed during the alpha and beta hardware runs. Maybe he wasn't involved personally, maybe he was - but the likelihood of him being right is quite high right now, considering the amount of issues there are. Are they minor? As I said, probably less than 1/4 of sold units - but they are there, and they are garnering MS all kinds of bad press. There are going to be a lot of pissed off parents come January, and I don't see this boding well at all for Microsoft's dominant dreams. They aren't going to win any console war this way - and it makes Sony and Nintendo look all that much smarter for taking more time to enter the race. Ever seen that Looney Tunes cartoon with Bugs Bunny and the slow tortoise?
 
Wow guys, how about we ask some logical questions and talk about the Xbox 360 instead of getting in a full on flame war. I mean I am seeing paragraphs of nothing but flaming and arguing, we all need to chill the hell out. So anyways, is there any possibilty of me getting a premium 360 by Christams, and do you think they will still have all these problems?
 
some kind of Fox-News like shield, where you are only seeing one side of the coin
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Not Fox Bashing...Sigh you know they were the last to claim Bush won and the first to claim Gore Won.
Anyway every console has problems at launch. The PS2 went through so many revisions. the Xbox went through 6 and the GameCube is unknown to me.
 
{NG}Fidel said:
Not Fox Bashing...Sigh you know they were the last to claim Bush won and the first to claim Gore Won.
Anyway every console has problems at launch. The PS2 went through so many revisions. the Xbox went through 6 and the GameCube is unknown to me.
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Yes yes, that's fine. I meant their current lack of two-sided coverage. Not meant to be a political statement, so I'm going to go ahead and remove it from my original post before it turns out to become a political argument. Let's just say that if he doesn't believe the X360 is losing credibility, he hasn't been watching the news much.

The Gamecube has gone through a couple revisions as well, including the most recent removal of the digital A/V port, but as far as hardware issues are concerned, they are not as prevailant on the cube.
 
steviep said:
Alright, so you can pick on a guy for claiming he was an alpha tester... but then you claim you are an engineer that works with plenty of companies. Argument 101, don't put yourself into the same unknown boat.

Mistake number two: if you don't think the X360 is getting all kinds of bad press for the media, you've been under some kind of rock or shield, where you are only seeing one side of the coin - or at the very least, you haven't been paying attention for the last few days. Initially, reports were gushing about the "must have" item of the holiday season. And less than 3 days later, the headlines turned into the "must-have X360 riddled with problems?". Even if the defects are less than 10%, news articles and stories are appearing on most major websites and news networks. The reuters article is everywhere from CNN to Yahoo News, and gaming sites were the first to pick up on these issues. I've personally seen a local evening news broadcast where the news team took their cameras to a local game store, to show the returns/exchanges of games that had all kinds of disc-scrathing (possible user-error) and warping/melting (definately not user-error). On video, on my TV. I've seen these things crash in person, and so has the major news media.

It therefore is pretty easy to believe bruenor when he says that these issues existed during the alpha and beta hardware runs. Maybe he wasn't involved personally, maybe he was - but the likelihood of him being right is quite high right now, considering the amount of issues there are. Are they minor? As I said, probably less than 1/4 of sold units - but they are there, and they are garnering MS all kinds of bad press. There are going to be a lot of pissed off parents come January, and I don't see this boding well at all for Microsoft's dominant dreams. They aren't going to win any console war this way - and it makes Sony and Nintendo look all that much smarter for taking more time to enter the race. Ever seen that Looney Tunes cartoon with Bugs Bunny and the slow tortoise?
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All I said was if he is an alpha tester prove it, I can certainly prove I'm an engineer if anyone doubts me, I'm actually in grad school now but I was working for a few years before that.
And I just read the article on CNN, its buried back in their technology page, not on the front page. Most of it is quotes from other websites, and they state the glitches are "isolated" They also talked to MS, who said if anyone has any problems to contact them and they will arrange repairs, they even give a phone number to get ahold of them and everything. I don't see any damning news reports in mainstream media, not yet anyway. But maybe I'm watching the wrong channels.
 
steviep said:
Let's just say that if he doesn't believe the X360 is losing credibility, he hasn't been watching the news much.
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Wishful thinking on your part I presume.

Launch consoles that have had issues have never seemed too worse for wear. That means PSP, PS2, Xbox, PS1, NES, and Genesis.

No matter what news is reported about issues with the X360 the hype around it doesnt appear to be suffering one bit. I crept into my local Target today to buy some DVDs and checked on a 360 and the lady sneered at me and said You are about the 100th person today who has asked me and we still dont have any. As I started walked away she took a call asking about the 360s availability and she said see theres another.
 
[Fate]Doom said:
Wishful thinking on your part I presume.

Launch consoles that have had issues have never seemed too worse for wear. That means PSP, PS2, Xbox, PS1, NES, and Genesis.

No matter what news is reported about issues with the X360 the hype around it doesnt appear to be suffering one bit. I crept into my local Target today to buy some DVDs and checked on a 360 and the lady sneered at me and said You are about the 100th person today who has asked me and we still dont have any. As I started walked away she took a call asking about the 360s availability and she said see theres another.
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Not wishful thinking, they are garnering plenty of bad press (and not just from major news networks that are running live stories, different from their web article). Does that mean the hype has died down? Hell no. People still want a piece of the action. I'll admit that if any of the launch titles interested me, I would be in on it as well. MS hasn't given any numbers, though, so none of us will know an exact % defects. But one visit to XBoxScene will scare the living shit out of you.
 
I'm actually sorry I ever even spoke up in this thread. Nothing useful came of it. I was trying to give my opinion of the article, and add in some suggestions to making it more balanced as well as some glaring ommisions I felt.

I didn't write the review, I don't have to defend myself. If you want to dismiss me, then please do so if it makes you feel better. NDA does not cover speaking generally about a system especially after it has been released... now if I gave exact specifics or priveledged information then that's a different story.

Done ---------

To the person who asked if they had a chance of a premium 360 by xmas, sorry unless you pay an inflated rate on ebay or in a massive bundle that is left at a store due to the cost I'd say no. I had seen one 360 bundle the other day that was left and it was going for $899 with a bunch of accessories, it was a pre-order no one claimed and the store was using it to move almost one of every accessory with the sale. Im sure a buyer even snatched it up by now though even at the high price and useless bundle.

The next real shipments that should begin to cover the demand aren't until February unfortunately.
 
danman said:
This thread is just stupid.
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QFmotherfuckingT. This is so annoying blabbering on about nothing. How about we get some real conversations about the 360 instead of all this hypothetical shit.
 
Benton The Race said:
QFmotherfuckingT. This is so annoying blabbering on about nothing. How about we get some real conversations about the 360 instead of all this hypothetical shit.
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So why, then, don't you start the bidding, instead of posting a comment about how this thread is about nothing :p (i.e. put your money where your keyboard is)
 
steviep said:
So why, then, don't you start the bidding, instead of posting a comment about how this thread is about nothing :p (i.e. put your money where your keyboard is)
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Maybe if everyone had stopped arguing they could have answered my questions. If you look at the past 2 pages I have asked around 5 questions all of which have been ignored during this flame war. Any who guys, I got a demo disk with a 360 magazine and they had some gameplay footage so I decided to take some pictures on my regular TV(getting my HD next week) so you guys can see what it looks like. It looks pretty good.







 
Also, once again, for those of you who have the 360 can the batteries for the controllers be charged only in the plug and charge or with a separate charger.

deltacoray
 
DelTacoRay said:
Also, once again, for those of you who have the 360 can the batteries for the controllers be charged only in the plug and charge or with a separate charger.

deltacoray
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You can use any "AA" batteries you like in the controllers. Before I bought the Play & Charge cable (which comes with a new battery pack and cable) I used standard Energizer "AA" recharable batteries and kept a set in the charger to rotate them out.
 
ok, please excuse my ignorance, but is the charger a separate item(is there a specific 360 recharger kit), or will any home charger kit do(assuming they fit) or is the 'charger' the controller itself. thanx for the help.

deltacoray
 
DelTacoRay said:
ok, please excuse my ignorance, but is the charger a separate item(is there a specific 360 recharger kit), or will any home charger kit do(assuming they fit) or is the 'charger' the controller itself. thanx for the help.

deltacoray
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The 360 itself is not the thing that is charged. The thing everyone is talking about is the plug and play, which plugs into the WIRELESS controller and charges while you play.
 
I get that part, my question is this, how are the batteries for the wireless controllers charged? ONLY in the controller with plug and charge or is there a separate charger available. I have no 360(yet) but got two extra batteries, and two play and charge kits which come with batteries and 3 extra controllers, so 4 batteries and 4 controllers. But can I charge the batteries ahead of time without the controllers(as I know they will charge even when the unit is off). I want to be able to keep the batteries charged and experience the full on 'wireless' with my kids and our big screen in the living room. If there is a stand alone charger for the batteries can you post a link.

deltacoray
 
Hey del but I am not sure. Sorry, but I would assume any AA charger would work. I'm so pissed I didn't have money at luanch I am really kicking myself in the face for not getting one. Are there any confirmed dates for shipments. Any possibility I will get mine for X-mas if I DIDN'T preorder?
 
DelTacoRay said:
I get that part, my question is this, how are the batteries for the wireless controllers charged? ONLY in the controller with plug and charge or is there a separate charger available. I have no 360(yet) but got two extra batteries, and two play and charge kits which come with batteries and 3 extra controllers, so 4 batteries and 4 controllers. But can I charge the batteries ahead of time without the controllers(as I know they will charge even when the unit is off). I want to be able to keep the batteries charged and experience the full on 'wireless' with my kids and our big screen in the living room. If there is a stand alone charger for the batteries can you post a link.

deltacoray
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The controller itself is the charger in this case.
 
wow - reading that review makes me want to get a 360 now... are the crashing issues still rampantly plaguing the current 360 owners? or was it just a few units and it got blown out of proportion? Sorry is this was covered, but lost interest in reading all the posts when I started seeing the flames picking up.. *sigh*
 
Back on topic, as has been asked several times yet ignored by those who cant click the `start new thread button`.

The wireless controller comes with 2 x AA batteries. I would assume any rechargeable AA batteries would be OK. You are probably better with NiMH ones so they dont get a memory.

I do like the suggestion about a side by side comparison with a good PC, games like COD2 and NFSMW which are available for both PC and X360. That would give people some idea of how good the 360 really is compared to varying levels of PC / Video card combos. That would also be something more in the normal realm of [H] reviews too....

I find the X360 noisier than expected.
 
Personally I like all consoles and I currently own a gamecube, n64, ps2 and pc. I have owned ps1, snes, gameboy, gamegear etc etc. But the one thing I have never bought or consider buying is an xbox. Even when I recently wanted a games machine as I only had the gamecube (I had a ps2 but sold it) I chose to buy a ps2 not an xbox.

WHY BUY A 360?

For me there is no reason for the xbox 360. Playstation 2 has better titles than the xbox by a long way. PS3 will be something to buy. But why not have both? Because to me the xbox has the image of something cool for pc owners or rock loving teenagers who all love halo and nothing else. That is fair enough, but I have played halo and I just dont understand where the hype comes from. I drove the car up triangle concrete boxes with plain rooms that looked like it had not been textured with no details, I thought hang on, isnt this meant to be amazing? As I went through corridors that all looked the same I realised that halo wasnt special at all.

It annoys me that people talk about halo as if its the best multplayer game ever, or rather, the only one that has ever existed. Its not like xbox owners have their own corner like everything else, its more like they think its the best. I disagree, I think the halo games are just average fps games and I dont think they match many fps online games such as battlefield 1942, bf2, cs source and all the other games.

I see the xbox 360 and I know there is only one game that people buy it for and thats halo 3. Halo reminds me of tribes 2 or something, a rather unpopular, although enjoyable for a while pc game. I just cant understand why someone would buy a 360 right now unless they have a lot of money and dont think the ps3 will be better.

SPECIAL GAMES

The xbox probably wont have as many special games as the ps3. Halo is not special, its just average compared to pc fps games. If more people admitted that and it was more widespread in reviews that this was true then maybe I would be able to play it without thinking its as good as people make out.

A special game is something like resident evil 4 where you can see how much work has gone into it and that got very little coverage at release. A vast amount of people, probably on this forum have no idea that this is probably one of the best games of all time. Its so good its worth buying a gamecube for, in fact its really the only reason to ever buy a gamecube and lets face it, halo 3 is the only reason to buy a 360.

The review at hardocp doesnt really mention that maybe for some people its a waste of money because its pretty likely the ps3 will have better games. You can argue this of course, but the best games tend to go to sony more often than not.

XBOX LIVE

If you mention xbox live, then lets mention how you have to pay a fee to use it. Sure its cheap, yet its free on the pc with a lot more games and settings. Theres nothing amazing about xbox live, only that it costs money. Its a good idea, but the way people go on its like there is no other online gaming.

IMAGE

Im one market they havent reached because I dont like the false image xbox has. It has a cool name and a great image and too many people seem to buy it for that reason. Its a powerful system, but the xbox came nowhere near the entertainment that the ps2 did.

I doubt very much that the 360 is worth spending so much money on for the reason that;, Its not as great as you might have been told, If you have a PC then why buy another one, Online PC gaming has a better range of games and is more popular.

XBOX

So I think overall the xbox has a fake image and people easily forget its past history of not that great games and halo has, and always will be overated. The xbox has a great image though, probably the best image of any console because of xbox's marketing and
a way for microsoft to reach the teenagers who dont think its as cool or hip to own a decent PC. Xbox's strength owes a lot to the people who advertised and marketed it and personally I think its amazing that halo made this console so popular considering its a distinctly average fps game.
 
eyeronik said:
Personally I like all consoles and I currently own a gamecube, n64, ps2 and pc. I have owned ps1, snes, gameboy, gamegear etc etc. But the one thing I have never bought or consider buying is an xbox. Even when I recently wanted a games machine as I only had the gamecube (I had a ps2 but sold it) I chose to buy a ps2 not an xbox.

WHY BUY A 360?

For me there is no reason for the xbox 360. Playstation 2 has better titles than the xbox by a long way. PS3 will be something to buy. But why not have both? Because to me the xbox has the image of something cool for pc owners or rock loving teenagers who all love halo and nothing else. That is fair enough, but I have played halo and I just dont understand where the hype comes from. I drove the car up triangle concrete boxes with plain rooms that looked like it had not been textured with no details, I thought hang on, isnt this meant to be amazing? As I went through corridors that all looked the same I realised that halo wasnt special at all.

It annoys me that people talk about halo as if its the best multplayer game ever, or rather, the only one that has ever existed. Its not like xbox owners have their own corner like everything else, its more like they think its the best. I disagree, I think the halo games are just average fps games and I dont think they match many fps online games such as battlefield 1942, bf2, cs source and all the other games.

I see the xbox 360 and I know there is only one game that people buy it for and thats halo 3. Halo reminds me of tribes 2 or something, a rather unpopular, although enjoyable for a while pc game. I just cant understand why someone would buy a 360 right now unless they have a lot of money and dont think the ps3 will be better.

SPECIAL GAMES

The xbox probably wont have as many special games as the ps3. Halo is not special, its just average compared to pc fps games. If more people admitted that and it was more widespread in reviews that this was true then maybe I would be able to play it without thinking its as good as people make out.

A special game is something like resident evil 4 where you can see how much work has gone into it and that got very little coverage at release. A vast amount of people, probably on this forum have no idea that this is probably one of the best games of all time. Its so good its worth buying a gamecube for, in fact its really the only reason to ever buy a gamecube and lets face it, halo 3 is the only reason to buy a 360.

The review at hardocp doesnt really mention that maybe for some people its a waste of money because its pretty likely the ps3 will have better games. You can argue this of course, but the best games tend to go to sony more often than not.

XBOX LIVE

If you mention xbox live, then lets mention how you have to pay a fee to use it. Sure its cheap, yet its free on the pc with a lot more games and settings. Theres nothing amazing about xbox live, only that it costs money. Its a good idea, but the way people go on its like there is no other online gaming.

IMAGE

Im one market they havent reached because I dont like the false image xbox has. It has a cool name and a great image and too many people seem to buy it for that reason. Its a powerful system, but the xbox came nowhere near the entertainment that the ps2 did.

I doubt very much that the 360 is worth spending so much money on for the reason that;, Its not as great as you might have been told, If you have a PC then why buy another one, Online PC gaming has a better range of games and is more popular.

XBOX

So I think overall the xbox has a fake image and people easily forget its past history of not that great games and halo has, and always will be overated. The xbox has a great image though, probably the best image of any console because of xbox's marketing and
a way for microsoft to reach the teenagers who dont think its as cool or hip to own a decent PC. Xbox's strength owes a lot to the people who advertised and marketed it and personally I think its amazing that halo made this console so popular considering its a distinctly average fps game.
Click to expand...

Options, nothing more then opinions. I on the other hand, detest Sony and refuse to give them one cent of my hard earned money. The 360 has all the titles I want, and the media features that I desire.

I will be getting a 360.
 
Wow, this thread is ressurected from the dead :)
While we all appreciate your opinion here (and it's just that, an opinion), and some will find faults with it of course, and others will agree (I particularly agree about Halo). That said, however, we don't know what kind of games the PS3 will have because it's not out yet, and very few titles have been announced - that aren't multiplatform.

Until the PS3 is released and on the store shelves, I find it hard to speculate on which system will have better games. And though the launch of the X360 has been utter crap, almost every launch in history is crap. Playstation 2 included. And speaking of the PS2, Sony's marketing machine is even better than Microsoft's ("toy story graphics!!"), especially in Japan. While the XBox brand is "cool" in North America, as you said, there is a difference in culture in Japan about it. Microsoft's "poor man's PC" type target audience may serve it well here, but not there. I don't buy consoles to be cool, I buy them to have fun and play games that are fun. So while we can probably infer that the PS3 will have more games, based on the fact that it MIGHT sell more systems, until this time next year, no one will be able to properly gauge which system is better than the other based upon unreleased games, tech demos, and CGI trailers.
 
Benton, I'll try to answer some of your questions...

COD 2 on the PC running @ 1280x720p with maximum everything turned up on an x800pro produces better grahics than the 360. I can't say the textures are decidedly better, nor can I say the sharpness is better, but the overall picture is cleaner The faces on character are more detailed, and the vehicles have extra, I don't know, geometry and more parts, I guess. The vehicles are obviously improved on in the PC.

The PC still wins, but between the 4 people looking at both games running at the same time, we all agreed that the PC doesn't offer that big of an upgrade in graphical quality to actually say it is totally superior to the 360 once you factor in the cost of the parts required to achieve that level of detail on a PC. Does that make sense? Essentially the PC wins (as it always will) but not by enough to say that it ownz the 360. Damned impressive for a 400 dollar console, especially considering given the amount of crap going on at one time on the screen there are almost 0 frame rate hiccups.

If I had my digital camera still (broke it) I would move my monitor side by side to my TV and take shots for you.

Rushed product accusations and hardware issues
I personally feel after continuous useage of my 360 from the day after launch to now, that it is a quality designed product, and I have experienced only 2 issues of note.

During extensive play testing with virtually every launch game (minus most of the EA sports titles: Hockey, Golf) I have experience 2 lock ups, both came at different parts of the game, but one seemed to be triggered by a bug in need for speed. The other came for no reason at all last night after about 3 hours of play. These issues happened weeks apart, with no apparent trigger besides the first in-game bug.

The only aspect of the 360 I feel that was rushed is Backwards Compatibilty. It's obviously an afterthought, and although I wasn't mad about it at first, I feel it is an insult and a complete joke on their part. There are numerous issues that pop up while playing original xbox games. These range from texture artifacting, to weird washed out contrast issues, poor xbox live voice reproduction, and voice output options not staying set correctly or owrking properly when set. These are by no means 'deal breakers' but it just smacks of half assery. I'm sure it will be fixed eventually, but right now it just plain sucks.

Battery questions
The wireless controllers I'm using right now are running off of plain ol' nickel cadmium monster cable double A's. I can tell you this, and hopefully someone who actually owns a play and charge right now can verify. If the pack that comes with the play and charge uses either a)lithium ion seperate double a's, or b) one big lithium ion pack, then no, you can not take them out and charge them seperately with a standard battery recharger. You would have to have a lithium ion battery recharger, and they would have to be standard size batteries in the recharge kit.

The pack works by providing power to the controller from the USB port on the 360, and the controller itself acts as the charging unit.

And as far as PS3 being touted as 'teh awsoem!!1' by all of you who have yet to play one, don't work for Sony, or it's develophers, and are just going off the rest of the speculative information available to all of us...well...yeah rock on, or whatever. StevieP pretty much has it nailed in the thread above this one.

And 'Best Game/Better Games' is such a subjective term depending on who is saying it, and what they actually like that in no way should it even be considered a valid argument. It shouldn't even be typed by most of you who frequent this forum, it seems that we have a very intelligent crowd for the most part, and arguments like that without base are just plain dumb.
 
its amazing how much sony has hypnotized its customers, i never hear as much !!!!!!ism for xbox than i do for ps. Sony right now has a terrible rep and i doubt anyone would want to touch anything their rootkit'ing, money losing, entertainment division will bring to market.

About COD2 on xbox 360 i agree with the previous poster, its good enough to argue which one is better the pc or 360 version. In that sense I think it says alot about the graphical quality.

One question, with reports of japan's launch not completely selling out of them does anyone think that will bring down the insane ebay prices once(if) those units make it to US?
 
selling my shuttle/3700/7800gtx system going back to my xp3200/x800xl rig and buying an xbox and with the money left over gonna buy a game for it :p actually i'd have about £300 left so maybe 2 games :p um or a 26" LCD hdtv to go with it :D.
 
pgr6kj.gif
:D
 
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