Microsoft Talks Privacy And Windows 10

[heatlesssun]

All MS needed to do to avoid this backlash, and needs to do now to avoid further embarrassment that necessitate further press releases, is add *one* more option to the data collection dropdown:

- FULL
- BASIC
- DISABLED

Done! But ofcourse they won't do that. So instead they'll dick around with this trial balloon bullshit and corporate PR doublespeak for another 6 months, all the while the adoption curve continues to flatten and IT decision-makers put Windows 10 upgrade plans on hold. Bungled Xbox One launch, forced Kinect, Windows 8 launch - they just never learn.

I've talked to a number of real people about this face to face. When I've explained that in its default state Windows 10 collects and uses data like the typical smartphone I've not see one person come anywhere close to level the typical anti-Microsoft guy on threads like this. It's not a non-issue for Windows per se but in the grand scheme of a world of always connected devices and people and people gobbling up that stuff like no tomorrow the ship sailed. And yeah, your phone is a not a PC, however countless millions do many of the same things on their phones as they once did on PCs.

As for as the enterprise, I work at a mega bank and we have plans to start rolling out 10 by end of 2016 if testing goes well. The guys I've spoken to in infrastructure are pretty happy with 10. Sure the adoption rate has slowed but 10 looks to have broken the 100 million mark in about 60 days. I don't really see how no a telemetry would have impacted those kinds of numbers significantly. Again, I get there are those that hate all of this stuff and they have been vocal so maybe Microsoft will be forced to allow consumers to easily turn it if just for PR's sake. The vast majority of the world carrying smartphones I doubt gives two shits honestly.

 

[DarkStar02]

I don't know of any money being stolen out of my wallet because of some game I've not played in a decade. Again, you can refuse whatever you chose. But you and others like you haven't offered much against these practices other than let's just keep doing the same things forever.

Seriously this. Let him keep using PS 4.0. He can clone stamp something over and over while we use content aware fill with a single click.

 

[Ur_Mom]

If you don't think people bitch about Google you might be in a comatose. Also, worst excuse ever. I can close the browser tab on Google.com and choose not to use Android, but if I have Windows 10 I can't escape spying when it's built into the DNA of the OS.

Wait... You can choose to not use Android, but you can't choose to not use Windows 10? How does that work?

I get your point, though. Privacy is HUGE these days, even with nothing to hide. It's on the forefront of people's minds. So, if it's there and cannot be disabled completely from a user standpoint, then it's a problem. Doesn't matter if it's only simple telemetry or not. It doesn't matter if phone data is metadata only... I talk with a lot of Microsoft folks, it's an issue, and they know it. But, the higher ups want it (like the Start Screen), even though many others see it as an issue. Real or not, if the users don't like it - it's a problem.

 

[heatlesssun]

But, the higher ups want it (like the Start Screen), even though many others see it as an issue. Real or not, if the users don't like it - it's a problem.

So in 2015, you're going to develop something as complex as Windows 10 and deploy it to hundreds of millions of devices and by default have absolutely no automated diagnostics or telemetry? In an Agile development world that's completely that's pretty insane. I can understand people wanting an off switch for it but everyone can't do it. Again, this really has more to do with modern software practices than Windows 10 per se.

 

[nilepez]

PS 4.0 you don't have to be tethered to the Internet to use it so is better. Same goes for all modern shitware that requires Internet activation. I reject the current system and am part of the resistance.

You're on the web right now. You log in once a month. It's not a big deal, and unless you already paid full price for CS, it's cheaper for photographers. I think it'd take roughly 10 years before the cost of CC was more than a full version of Photoshop/Lightroom. If you had in updates, it'd probably go out further than that.

When it was 20 bucks, I totally agreed, but at 10 bucks, I'll take CC.

 

[ccman]

What's really becoming interesting to me about this privacy debate and that of forced updates is how these things are coupled with widely accepted practices in modern software development.

Just because everyone else is doing something doesn't make it right. Calling something modern doesn't make it right. The term "modern" doesn't excuse you from having to justify the practice. If this is modern, I can't wait until postmodern.

... but the software development world is FILLED with books and training on all of this stuff. Windows n such and

Your read it in a book and were trained on it so it must be right and beyond reproach.

You can control what personally identifying and personal data is sent. I get that some folks freak out about even the Basic telemetry but as far as privacy concerns go almost everyone is at exponentially more privacy risk from hacked web sites or local malware.

How do you know? Much of the data sent across the network is encrypted. Trust us?

In all honesty people who think this stuff is intrusive or nefarious really need to talk to the thinkers around mainstream software development because that's were this stuff is coming from. And it's being taught and practiced around the globe.

Experts in software development are not experts in philosophy, the law, rights, or ethics. I would hate to see a world where we need to introduce an ethics or privacy panel into software development.

I've talked to a number of real people about this face to face. When I've explained that in its default state Windows 10 collects and uses data like the typical smartphone I've not see one person come anywhere close to level the typical anti-Microsoft guy on threads like this.

So the people you talk to don't have a problem with it so it must be right? The majority doesn't have a problem with it so it must be right?

Your arguments suck. Not that mine are better. Your arguments stand on their own.

 

[ccman]

At some point the resistance needs to have some vision of how software is developed, maintained, delivered and it's purpose. There's not one thing that Microsoft is doing here with Windows 10 that I see that isn't in a thousands of books on modern software development. The idea that personal computing is all about disconnected devices, local files and execution is an idea that was fine 20 years. It doesn't seem all that fine today. Even the forced updating is straight out of Agile which is the biggest software construction methodology there is right now.

People can bitch at Microsoft all they want but the ideas here are not new and they aren't going away as these practices are being adopting at accelerating rates across the software industry. There is obviously a huge disconnect here between modern standard practices and those like you. Your beef really isn't with Microsoft but modern software development practices.

I don't see things that really matter and really can't break running Windows or using agile software development. NASA didn't send people into space on modern, agile software.

They say you can do something fast, good, or cheap, pick two. Agile software is fast by definition, and Microsoft has historically and comparatively been cheap, beating many of their early competitors on price. The price of Windows has not increased with inflation. So you tell me which two Microsoft has picked.

 

[heatlesssun]

Just because everyone else is doing something doesn't make it right. Calling something modern doesn't make it right. The term "modern" doesn't excuse you from having to justify the practice. If this is modern, I can't wait until postmodern.

Then what processes and techniques should one use? If everyone is using them it may because the processes and techniques are effective.

Your read it in a book and were trained on it so it must be right and beyond reproach.

It's not all theory. These methods and practices have been evolving for many years.

How do you know? Much of the data sent across the network is encrypted. Trust us?

A better question is why would Microsoft lie?

Experts in software development are not experts in philosophy, the law, rights, or ethics. I would hate to see a world where we need to introduce an ethics or privacy panel into software development.

Technology has always been intimately tied to these other subjects.

So the people you talk to don't have a problem with it so it must be right? The majority doesn't have a problem with it so it must be right?

Your arguments suck. Not that mine are better. Your arguments stand on their own.

You keep talking about what is right. So what is right? In the realm of commercial software at least one element of right in the concrete sense has to be something that people want to use because it provides certain features and capabilities. People seem to love the data sharing and leveraging capabilities of smartphones.

 

[Vercinaigh]

A better question is why would Microsoft lie?

If I could get paid a nickle the number of times this has been said about so many things and the reasoning been found to be absolutely horrific I'd be the richest person in the world. More often than not it is not in a companies "interest" to tell you, the plebs, anything factual. It is much easier to tell people what they want to hear and then do whatever it is you want to do.

It's also way more often than not more profitable, and the bottom line is all big organizations care about, they certainly couldn't give a rat's ass about you, me, or anyone else here for that matter.

 

[heatlesssun]

If I could get paid a nickle the number of times this has been said about so many things and the reasoning been found to be absolutely horrific I'd be the richest person in the world. More often than not it is not in a companies "interest" to tell you, the plebs, anything factual. It is much easier to tell people what they want to hear and then do whatever it is you want to do.

It's also way more often than not more profitable, and the bottom line is all big organizations care about, they certainly couldn't give a rat's ass about you, me, or anyone else here for that matter.

Why would Microsoft lie about this considering the consequences they'd face if caught? If I could get a nickel for every conspiracy with no logic or proof you'd be the second richest person in the world.

 

[HoffY]

Then what processes and techniques should one use? If everyone is using them it may because the processes and techniques are effective.

Or it may be because all us plebs that can't write our own programs have no choice, so they abuse their position of power.

Don't even know why i'm bothering to respond to you. You're a bonifide "everything MS do is right" fanatic! Its a wonder you havn't been employed by the LNP Government here in my country, They're as single track minded as you are! You'd tow the party line like nobody's business!

 

[Red Falcon]

I think the fact that China, Russia, and many other countries not wanting to touch Windows 10 with a 20 foot pole, mainly because of the Microsoft spyware, is reason enough not to use it for anything serious.
Aside from DX12 and using it as a gaming platform, one would be foolish to use it at this point with what has been revealed.

Unlike Windows 8, which was a questionable OS, Windows 10 is much better in terms of functionality and performance.
The issue, however, is the fact that one gives up their privacy to a company without ethics or morals for their customers, or human beings in general, and is most likely being back-doored by other agencies as well.

"Upgrade Windows 7 to Windows 10 for free*!"
*At the cost of your privacy and, in the not so distant future, your humanity.

While the 'heatlesssun vs. the forum 2012' thread was funny, this thread is just scary.
This has nothing to do with cats, anime, or Microsoft... just the lack of common sense and the ability to read between the lines (of code).

 

[heatlesssun]

You're a bonifide "everything MS do is right" fanatic!

So many people have gone so full blown conspiracy on this that they not bothered to try to look at this in software development terms. If all of this stuff in Windows 10 is garbage spyware and Agile processes are somehow "wrong" fine. But your problem isn't with Microsoft but with modern software processes and software features that leverage personal data. Right or wrong these processes and data driven features aren't dying, they are growing and accelerating.

 

[Flogger23m]

Remember when a subscription based Windows 10 was the biggest lurking concern about the "gotcha" we'd be looking down the barrel of in exchange for the upgrade being "free".. And MS comes up with this.

Learned today that if you enable Bitlocker encryption on your drive, the key is nabbed by OneDrive. The hits just keep coming.

As soon as Win 10 was announced for free I knew this would happen. I'd take a $15-30 cheap key upfront if they wanted a quicker adoption rate. Did that with 8, even though I never installed it and probably never will.

 

[rezerekted]

If Microsoft is the good guy still then explain why they felt the need to back port telemetry to Win7/8.1. I'll tell you why. BECAUSE THEY ARE LYING SCUM!!!!!!

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2978...dows-7-8-amidst-windows-10-privacy-storm.html

"the company’s not walking back its privacy-encroaching features. Instead, Microsoft’s quietly rolling out updates that bake new tracking tools into Windows 7 and Windows 8.

Yes, really.

The story behind the story: Privacy concerns have marred an otherwise sterling launch for Windows 10, which is already installed on 75 million PCs. Rolling out this Windows 7 and 8 updates amidst the controversy smacks of insensitivity—and it’s just plain poor timing, to boot."

 

[rezerekted]

Right or wrong these processes and data driven features aren't dying, they are growing and accelerating.

Yea, and this is where I get off the stupid train. CYA.

 

[Pieter3dnow]

With a product like Windows, you're going to get conflicting feedback. I think a lot of people are making this subject into something that it's not and missing much of what it is. There's nothing that Microsoft is doing here that's not straight out of modern software development techniques and practices used in billions of personal computing devices.

The group I work in at the bank has been sort of talking about Agile for some time, now there seems to be a push to really go there. What I think is pissing some off isn't what Microsoft did with Windows 10 but the general software development practices used today. Long waterfall development cycles with long lead times and "stable" software coming long testing periods or the idea that personal computing is about local files and processing and no automated telemetry nor some other information gathering just isn't how it goes these days.

In all honesty people who think this stuff is intrusive or nefarious really need to talk to the thinkers around mainstream software development because that's were this stuff is coming from. And it's being taught and practiced around the globe.

That is why I said spyware crap. There is to many software around that interferes with normal operation of your computer , if you see free software you need to google to make sure it is not spyware. Stuff that seems trivial like cookies are also something bothersome.

The problem with the IT industry is that there taking notice on how to use lawyer speak too stuff their crap in EULA , EULA is another example where 99.9% local laws are ignored EULA are not compliant with the law thus they should be considered null and void.

MS google and many others are just screwing us over that is why there is a debate on what the NSA may or may not do. If politicians just defended privacy of us citizens to start with we would not have this debate.

 

[Revdarian]

A better question is why would Microsoft lie?

Money.

Pure and simple, the basic question that answers why would x company do y, money is the answer.


Are you gonna keep cheerleading as usual and try to explain how it isn't advertising, it is app recommendation from the store that they own and from which they take a cut of every sale? We know that you love Microsoft but at some point you need to stop.

 

[daglesj]

Going forward guys, if you are that upset about all this maybe you should take up fishing or knitting or some such. Leave connected computing alone.

It's not going to get better. It's the price of admission.

Maybe the only solution is for those of you that defend you rights to firearms so much, to finally get off your fat butts and 'defend you rights against oppression' properly?

No...not keen? Talk the talk...

 

[nightanole]

Since chrome books are used alot in business, how much "data collection" do they have vs windows 10?

 

[CreepyUncleGoogle]

I see heatlesssun is hard at work posting in response to every single comment everyone has that might express a negative opinion.

I often wonder if it's paid Microsoft damage control or if he's just doing that stuff to make himself feel better about something that makes him uncomfortable. I think it's that second one and that he's trying really, really hard to feel good and be excited about new products by projecting that onto other people through an attempt to be as contrary as possible when their opinions don't align with his.

 

[heatlesssun]

Money.

Pure and simple, the basic question that answers why would x company do y, money is the answer.


Are you gonna keep cheerleading as usual and try to explain how it isn't advertising, it is app recommendation from the store that they own and from which they take a cut of every sale? We know that you love Microsoft but at some point you need to stop.

In it's default state, Windows 10 collects a lot of personal information, particularly with a Microsoft account. There's no debate about that, Microsoft has stated as much as the Privacy Settings clearly point out that such is the case.

So the lie wouldn't be about that. The lie is about what the Privacy settings do. How could this data collection be worth so much to Microsoft that it would lie about what these settings do when by default they are already on and furthermore why would Microsoft lie to its best customers about the nature of the data the telemetry collects? What could possibly be so valuable about collecting this data that it's worth lying about it and putting Microsoft at enormous risk if they ever got caught?

 

[heatlesssun]

Going forward guys, if you are that upset about all this maybe you should take up fishing or knitting or some such. Leave connected computing alone.

It's not going to get better. It's the price of admission.

This is where the software industry is right now. For better or for worse, right or wrong. People are confusing this as a defense of Microsoft when it is a statement of simple fact about the construction and feature sets of much modern software. Software like most any industry is about going along with the crowd. Agile development and the leverage of personal data through cloud services isn't going anywhere anytime time soon and it's only going to get bigger. Until the next wave of whatever is hot and heavy. Maybe that next wave will be all about privacy and disconnected computing.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Going forward guys, if you are that upset about all this maybe you should take up fishing or knitting or some such. Leave connected computing alone.

It's not going to get better. It's the price of admission.

Use Desktop Linux, don't do anything cloud based, and game on a separate Windows partition. (How much information can possibly be collected from my gaming sessions anyway?)

Since chrome books are used alot in business,

They are? I've never seen one in any business setting.

 

[Revdarian]

Careful there CUG, we all know that none sane does so much company defense without personal interests but if you put it explicit you can get an infraction.

It really looks like it is kind of a job, and no outsider looks at it and goes "gee whiz that company sure is great to have such ardent fans" but hey, to each their own.

 

[Spire3660]

With a product like Windows, you're going to get conflicting feedback. I think a lot of people are making this subject into something that it's not and missing much of what it is. There's nothing that Microsoft is doing here that's not straight out of modern software development techniques and practices used in billions of personal computing devices.

The group I work in at the bank has been sort of talking about Agile for some time, now there seems to be a push to really go there. What I think is pissing some off isn't what Microsoft did with Windows 10 but the general software development practices used today. Long waterfall development cycles with long lead times and "stable" software coming long testing periods or the idea that personal computing is about local files and processing and no automated telemetry nor some other information gathering just isn't how it goes these days.

In all honesty people who think this stuff is intrusive or nefarious really need to talk to the thinkers around mainstream software development because that's were this stuff is coming from. And it's being taught and practiced around the globe.

Just because no-morals coders do this stuff doesnt make it right or acceptable. Its finally come to a head when MS does it because in the past they were the go to OS for secure commercial solutions.

 

[CreepyUncleGoogle]

Careful there CUG, we all know that none sane does so much company defense without personal interests but if you put it explicit you can get an infraction.

It really looks like it is kind of a job, and no outsider looks at it and goes "gee whiz that company sure is great to have such ardent fans" but hey, to each their own.

Oh but I'm not at all saying he's on the dole for his comments. I was actually advocating the idea that this is a naturally-occurring state without any lurking financial motives in order to get ahead of the inevitable comments that will suggest paid-for posting. There's nothing wrong with sticking up for a fellow forum member.

 

[Spire3660]

At some point the resistance needs to have some vision of how software is developed, maintained, delivered and it's purpose. There's not one thing that Microsoft is doing here with Windows 10 that I see that isn't in a thousands of books on modern software development. The idea that personal computing is all about disconnected devices, local files and execution is an idea that was fine 20 years. It doesn't seem all that fine today. Even the forced updating is straight out of Agile which is the biggest software construction methodology there is right now.

People can bitch at Microsoft all they want but the ideas here are not new and they aren't going away as these practices are being adopting at accelerating rates across the software industry. There is obviously a huge disconnect here between modern standard practices and those like you. Your beef really isn't with Microsoft but modern software development practices.

You keep repeating this stuff like its acceptable, ITS NOT, we simply dont have any choices. You keep bringing up 'this is how its done', well guess what, the premise doesnt scale across EVERYTHING. The idea that data is the 'heart' of all software is bullshit. They do it because they can, not because its right or actually improving things.

 

[npublici]

This boils down to the well trained computer geeks and repairmen taking all the opt out garbage out,while the average household will be victimized,yet again by an opt out they have no idea how to reach.

 

[Frobozz]

A better question is why would Microsoft lie?

We should ask Volkswagen, or wake the corpse of Enron. Unexpected and weirder things have happened. Why would a company be deceitful , dishonest, or otherwise check their ethics to get a competitive advantage in today's "anything to make a buck" environment?

There is also the perception that the large lumbering corporation doesn't see what all of its hands are doing. Complete unsupported conjecture, but it's not unreasonable to think that this effort for anonymity in the case of system specs and crash logs couldn't be undone by some developer in another group, gathering data and using the same AnonymousID because it solves whatever problem they've been assigned.

Since it's all un-auditable and opaque, you just have to give them your trust until they get into the news for some data-breach issue.
(or [general] you could change your behavior... you know.. if you wanted to.)

 

[gene0915]

The reason I'm not using Windows 10 is because I simply don't trust MS. When I see Windows 10, I get the feeling I'm using a virtual OS where the back-end is housed at some NSA/advertising data center.

 

[heatlesssun]

You keep repeating this stuff like its acceptable, ITS NOT, we simply dont have any choices. You keep bringing up 'this is how its done', well guess what, the premise doesnt scale across EVERYTHING. The idea that data is the 'heart' of all software is bullshit. They do it because they can, not because its right or actually improving things.

I don't determine what's acceptable and neither to you, that's a job for the markets. If the market rejects Windows 10 because of privacy issues then the market will have spoken just like it did with Windows 8.x. But the market has readily accepted what you call unacceptable in the form of Facebook, Android and iOS devices and countless other things. Maybe enough people will single out Windows 10 and reject it for it to fail in the market. But over this particular issue that seems highly unlikely. There are far greater risks to privacy that people not using Windows 10 have to deal with.

 

[DPI]

This boils down to the well trained computer geeks and repairmen taking all the opt out garbage out,while the average household will be victimized,yet again by an opt out they have no idea how to reach.

Exactly. Defaults matter. And Microsoft's audacity to turn every Windows 10 PC into a torrent node by DEFAULT is about as arrogant and insidious as it gets. "But but you can disable it" - only if you knew you had been defaulted to wasting your bandwidth on being a free Windows update delivery node for Microsoft in the first place. How many end users do you think do? You're never informed or given an option during setup.

"But but you can set your connection to metered" - only on WiFi connections (doesn't work for ethernet) and only if you already knew the option was buried somewhere in the first place - most don't.

The defaults are fucking atrocious and there's never been a Windows with more gotchas to the extent you have to constantly look over your shoulder and make sure Windows update didn't re-enable things you thought you disabled or opted out of.

 

[Ur_Mom]

You keep repeating this stuff like its acceptable, ITS NOT, we simply dont have any choices. You keep bringing up 'this is how its done', well guess what, the premise doesnt scale across EVERYTHING. The idea that data is the 'heart' of all software is bullshit. They do it because they can, not because its right or actually improving things.

It may be how it's done, and it's fine for groups like Windows Insiders or the like, which willingly provide feedback and telemetry.

For others - a lot of people, even with the disclosure from Microsoft of what can and cannot be collected, it's acceptable. If there is a lot of negative feedback from customers, it won't be 'how it's done' anymore. It'll have to change.

From the people I know that work at Microsoft, it's a big topic of discussion. No word on if anything will be done about it, though. It's going to be a huge talking point at this years MVP summit in November. We know WHY it's done, but a lot of people are still concerned about how and how much data and why it cannot be fully turned off at a consumer level.

But, it's like Facebook - if you want to use the connected services, you need to have some of that data sent - Cortana, enhanced search, etc.. Some are fine with it (me), but others want to turn it off and use Windows 10 as a lean OS with DX12 with no reason to connect. No Cortana. Search is within the browser. No data unknowingly sent...

 

[heatlesssun]

We should ask Volkswagen, or wake the corpse of Enron. Unexpected and weirder things have happened. Why would a company be deceitful , dishonest, or otherwise check their ethics to get a competitive advantage in today's "anything to make a buck" environment?

With the out of the box defaults Microsoft isn't lying or being deceitful about Windows 10's data collection. Why would they lie about this when the defaults are set to collect data that many if not most people won't change? There's no reason to tell a lie when the truth will accomplish the same thing.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

...but others want to turn it off and use Windows 10 as a lean OS with DX12 with no reason to connect. No Cortana. Search is within the browser. No data unknowingly sent...

This is my approach, but I take it one step further.

My Windows 10 is barebones. Everything "opt out" is disabled.

I have Steam, Corsair Link, EVGA PrecisionX, And Avira installed. That is it.

I don't browse from windows, other than to download the latest driver, or something like that.

 

[DPI]

But, it's like Facebook - if you want to use the connected services, you need to have some of that data sent - Cortana, enhanced search, etc.. Some are fine with it (me), but others want to turn it off and use Windows 10 as a lean OS with DX12 with no reason to connect. No Cortana. Search is within the browser. No data unknowingly sent...

Bingo. Amazing how this simple premise is impossible for shills like our resident MS Baghdad Bob to understand. Too busy frantically defense-replying to every single comment in the thread to actually hear anything.

 

[sadsteve]

With a product like Windows, you're going to get conflicting feedback. I think a lot of people are making this subject into something that it's not and missing much of what it is. There's nothing that Microsoft is doing here that's not straight out of modern software development techniques and practices used in billions of personal computing devices.

The group I work in at the bank has been sort of talking about Agile for some time, now there seems to be a push to really go there. What I think is pissing some off isn't what Microsoft did with Windows 10 but the general software development practices used today. Long waterfall development cycles with long lead times and "stable" software coming long testing periods or the idea that personal computing is about local files and processing and no automated telemetry nor some other information gathering just isn't how it goes these days.

In all honesty people who think this stuff is intrusive or nefarious really need to talk to the thinkers around mainstream software development because that's were this stuff is coming from. And it's being taught and practiced around the globe.

I thought part of the goal of the agile methodology (latest development fad) was to get the users involved in the development process via frequent feedback. I don't think they were talking about forced feedback! My feedback is that I should be able to select the amount of feedback I want to give. Just give me the dialog that stated that Windows detected a problem and would you like to send the log info back to Microsoft, I'll hit the 'yes' or 'no' button myself.

It's mostly moot to me now, with all the privacy/telemetry/hidden update info that's gone around has finally caused me to switch to Mint Linux. Since almost all the applications I used on my laptop are open source, it was a trivial switch.

 

[heatlesssun]

For others - a lot of people, even with the disclosure from Microsoft of what can and cannot be collected, it's acceptable. If there is a lot of negative feedback from customers, it won't be 'how it's done' anymore. It'll have to change.

A billion+ people everyday use smartphones, social media, cloud storage, data sharing apps and services, email, etc. that all do exactly the same kinds of things that Windows 10 is doing. Yet somehow, Windows 10 is this grievous abuse of privacy that apparently few seem to complain about on other platforms. Sure there are complaints as the use of these things has skyrocketed, so it's hard to seem them as significant complaints.

I think this is really more of another example of resistance by some to incorporating modern concepts into a pretty old OS that was popular before devices were even connected to local networks, much less the Internet. People can sign into phones and tablets and everything just syncs up and there voice control and all of that without out a zillion messages about privacy but Windows has to remain disconnected by default, because, well the NSA. Ok. I get the concern. I just don't see too many people in the real world acting on it.

 

[Ur_Mom]

Microsoft's Customer Improvement Program built into a lot of Office programs - opt-in.
Windows Insiders - opt-in.
Windows 10 - opt-out, and even then it's not 100% turned off.

That's where I see the issue. It's not the data collection itself. It offers a lot of benefits if you want to use it. But, it's forced with little way to turn it off completely. If there was a switch that turned it off completely (and disabled Cortana and other related services that use that communication), then it wouldn't be such a big deal.