Microsoft Striping Features From Windows 8

[Q1DM6]

http://www.osnews.com/story/25951/What_s_wrong_with_Windows_8
"What's wrong with Windows 8"

 

[nobody_here]

striping.....you mean, stripping, not striping.

you are not allowed to make comments about an operating system until you learn how to spell

 

[wonderfield]

That article isn't accurate. Alt+Tab still works for switching between Metro and Classic apps: you don't have to switch back to Explorer to get out of Metro and into a Classic app (and vice versa).

 

[Tawnos]

striping.....you mean, stripping, not striping.

you are not allowed to make comments about an operating system until you learn how to spell

As I made in another thread, perhaps the title was more correct than intended - the feature is now striped across multiple installs

 

[Unknown-One]

Looks like they fixed my biggest complaint with the consumer preview (hot corners that didn't work very well with more than one monitor)

http://www.neowin.net/news/huge-multi-monitor-enhancements-coming-in-windows-8

After watching that video...I like the look of this. I'll likely install it on day-1 on all of my machines now.

 

[MrCrispy]

That article isn't accurate. Alt+Tab still works for switching between Metro and Classic apps: you don't have to switch back to Explorer to get out of Metro and into a Classic app (and vice versa).

You'd be amazed at how many normal users have no idea about Alt+Tab and other keyboard shortcuts like Alt=F4 we take for granted. These people are stuck, frustrated and angry in Metro mode. I've seen this first hand with many users. Microsoft has to add some sort of chrome to WinRT apps or make them windowed.

 

[rudy]

You'd be amazed at how many normal users have no idea about Alt+Tab and other keyboard shortcuts like Alt=F4 we take for granted. These people are stuck, frustrated and angry in Metro mode. I've seen this first hand with many users. Microsoft has to add some sort of chrome to WinRT apps or make them windowed.

Exactly most users are lucky if they even know cut, copy and paste. The whole point of windows and most OS is that you get rid of hidden shortcuts, consoles and so on and replace them with visual elements the user can find their own way through without any prior knowledge. Windows 8 fails at this. Also windows 8 better ship with a new standard mouse that has a built in windows key. I bound this to the stop button on my G500 and it made a big difference. But my guess is they will screw this up to with windows 8. No one even knows or understand the windows key. You can hardly survive without the windows key in windows 8.

 

[wonderfield]

You'd be amazed at how many normal users have no idea about Alt+Tab and other keyboard shortcuts like Alt=F4 we take for granted. These people are stuck, frustrated and angry in Metro mode. I've seen this first hand with many users. Microsoft has to add some sort of chrome to WinRT apps or make them windowed.

I don't disagree, just pointing out the error in the article.

I suspect Microsoft is expecting most users to take the initiative to learn the new ins-and-outs of the OS. Problem is, users aren't going to be excited to learn these things: not in the same way they'd be excited to learn the ins-and-outs on an iPad or the like. A new version of Windows rife with new challenges and complexities is not something most users get all that enthusiastic about. They're going to be forced to learn as a result of frustration, and despite the fact that it isn't really going to cause any pain and suffering for Microsoft's financials (because Microsoft's one of them monopoly things), it's going to tarnish their image a bit.

As they say, though, you reap what you sow.

 

[MrCrispy]

I also want to know which genius at Microsoft thought that invisible hot corners and hidden start menu were good UI paradigms. It's almost as if they are determined to defend these touch elements to death and refuse to make any concessions to the millions of desktop pc users.

 

[ManofGod]

I don't disagree, just pointing out the error in the article.

I suspect Microsoft is expecting most users to take the initiative to learn the new ins-and-outs of the OS. Problem is, users aren't going to be excited to learn these things: not in the same way they'd be excited to learn the ins-and-outs on an iPad or the like. A new version of Windows rife with new challenges and complexities is not something most users get all that enthusiastic about. They're going to be forced to learn as a result of frustration, and despite the fact that it isn't really going to cause any pain and suffering for Microsoft's financials (because Microsoft's one of them monopoly things), it's going to tarnish their image a bit.

As they say, though, you reap what you sow.

Interesting, because, at least for me, I do not find the Ipad at all intuitive. (I know you did not say that one way or the other, just saying.) I am a computer professional and even I would have to sit down and relearn most things just to use the IPad.

So, 5 minutes or so to learn the IPad basics or 5 minutes to learn the Windows 8 Basics. (Plus the fact that we can bring most of our apps with us in Windows, something that cannot be done at all on an IPad.) In my opinion, I think windows 8 will be a hit on all devices, but especially so on tablets.

 

[heatlesssun]

Interesting, because, at least for me, I do not find the Ipad at all intuitive. (I know you did not say that one way or the other, just saying.) I am a computer professional and even I would have to sit down and relearn most things just to use the IPad.

There's a lot gestures that are hidden on the iPad. The basics are very simple, icon, tap, run program, but their are a lot of multi-touch gestures that are there that I would guess many iPad users aren't even aware of. But this is truth with pretty much any OS. I'm sure there's a few things in Windows I still am not aware of.

I simply don't believe in the notion of innate intuitiveness. Sure some things are simple and exposed, but many things aren't, you just have to know.

 

[wonderfield]

My point was that people (most people) are going to be excited to learn iOS. It's a platform reserved almost exclusively for having fun and being entertained. Windows, for most, is a utility knife. It's a tool they use to be able to perform work. Users are not ordinarily going to take pleasure in re-learning how to perform tasks that they once knew how to do quickly and easily.

The re-learning process may take as long as the learning process for iOS, but that says nothing of what people are going to enjoy (or not enjoy) about that process with Windows.

 

[heatlesssun]

But Windows 8 can now do all of the things that iPad can with the touch UI. And there'll be cool new devices to go with that new experience like touch screen laptops. And Windows is far from just being for work, Windows is still a pretty big gaming and entertainment platform though its rep is one of work. But let's not forget the fact also that a Windows 8 x86 tablet can be both an iPad and a PC. A lot of people will be willing to learn something new if they can one device that serves two purposes.

 

[MrCrispy]

But Windows 8 can now do all of the things that iPad can with the touch UI. And there'll be cool new devices to go with that new experience like touch screen laptops. And Windows is far from just being for work, Windows is still a pretty big gaming and entertainment platform though its rep is one of work. But let's not forget the fact also that a Windows 8 x86 tablet can be both an iPad and a PC. A lot of people will be willing to learn something new if they can one device that serves two purposes.

Adding exciting touch features doesn't mean you have to make it harder to use for desktop users. There's no need to remove existing features and make it so hard !! That's what you and apparently MS keep missing.

Please give me one reason why on a non touch device, Metro apps can't have chrome, why Start is hidden, hot corners etc. None of it makes sense.

 

[MrCrispy]

There's a lot gestures that are hidden on the iPad. The basics are very simple, icon, tap, run program, but their are a lot of multi-touch gestures that are there that I would guess many iPad users aren't even aware of. But this is truth with pretty much any OS. I'm sure there's a few things in Windows I still am not aware of.

I simply don't believe in the notion of innate intuitiveness. Sure some things are simple and exposed, but many things aren't, you just have to know.

Learning a new interface on a tablet is in no way comparable to changing habits on a desktop OS that you've used for many years, and now suddenly stops working.

 

[wonderfield]

But Windows 8 can now do all of the things that iPad can with the touch UI.

The number of users who use a touchscreen on their Windows device: practically nil. You could argue that there will be more touch-enabled Windows devices after Windows 8 is released, but that's not the current landscape with respect to the machines the vast, overwhelming majority of users actually use today and in the next several years. These are keyboard- and mouse-driven machines, and they will be the majority of Windows machines in the foreseeable future.

Microsoft is optimizing Windows 8, and Metro, for a hardware landscape that doesn't even exist.

 

[CEpeep]

Microsoft is optimizing Windows 8, and Metro, for a hardware landscape that doesn't even exist.

They did the same thing with Vista in optimizing for hardware video. Before Aero, most systems were sold with absolute garbage onboard video. It meant Vista ran like a dog on most of the current systems at the time, but Aero was dropped right into Win 7 with barely any improvements and is responsible for a lot of the things that people like in 7 (like thumbnail peeks). I'm not sure there's any fundamental problem with Microsoft paving a path for what they see as the future of hardware, as long as they turn out to be right.

 

[heatlesssun]

Adding exciting touch features doesn't mean you have to make it harder to use for desktop users. There's no need to remove existing features and make it so hard !! That's what you and apparently MS keep missing.

Please give me one reason why on a non touch device, Metro apps can't have chrome, why Start is hidden, hot corners etc. None of it makes sense.

I've been dealing with tablets for two decades, long before the iPad or Android tablets and was an early adopter of Windows Tablet PCs. I think that Metro haters are missing a point themselves. I want to use my computer with different input methods based on the situation and I want a consist UI. We can debate the efficiency of Metro's implementation but see no inherent reason why a single UI that works with multiple input devices can't work and be efficient and useful.

This certainly looks like a multi-monitor solution that's going to be plenty efficient and productive for people: http://www.neowin.net/news/huge-multi-monitor-enhancements-coming-in-windows-8

Learning a new interface on a tablet is in no way comparable to changing habits on a desktop OS that you've used for many years, and now suddenly stops working.

And see I think this is the crux of the matter, something that's old is changing, that's always going to meet with resistance and much of it has nothing to do with the change itself, just that its changing.

 

[heatlesssun]

The number of users who use a touchscreen on their Windows device: practically nil. You could argue that there will be more touch-enabled Windows devices after Windows 8 is released, but that's not the current landscape with respect to the machines the vast, overwhelming majority of users actually use today and in the next several years. These are keyboard- and mouse-driven machines, and they will be the majority of Windows machines in the foreseeable future.

Microsoft is optimizing Windows 8, and Metro, for a hardware landscape that doesn't even exist.

Fist of all the vast majority of people who get new versions on Windows, at least on the consumer side get it with new hardware. And there will be tons of new Windows 8 hardware with touch capability. Not only that, even devices that don't have touch screens will see new touch gesture track pads for instance.

The integration of touch capabilities in Windows 8 hardware is going to be more pervasive and happen faster than you think. Remember, part of the goal of Windows 8 is to help PC OEMs sell new hardware. There are going to tons of people that see new touch hardware and want new PCs.

 

[rudy]

I've been dealing with tablets for two decades, long before the iPad or Android tablets and was an early adopter of Windows Tablet PCs. I think that Metro haters are missing a point themselves. I want to use my computer with different input methods based on the situation and I want a consist UI. We can debate the efficiency of Metro's implementation but see no inherent reason why a single UI that works with multiple input devices can't work and be efficient and useful.

This certainly looks like a multi-monitor solution that's going to be plenty efficient and productive for people: http://www.neowin.net/news/huge-multi-monitor-enhancements-coming-in-windows-8



And see I think this is the crux of the matter, something that's old is changing, that's always going to meet with resistance and much of it has nothing to do with the change itself, just that its changing.

You are right, there is no reason that adding touch features should cost the mouse / keyboard and desktop. But it does and this is what we are mad about. Poor design choices. I had not thought about it until reading that article but perhaps it is right. MS could be purposely making it a pain to switch to the windows 7 desktop to push metro, but I can promise you that will be a huge mistake for them. Tons of people are switching to macs and windows 8 is going to accelerate that in its current state.

 

[EBruddah]

Oh, "stripping" features.. I was all excited to to see that they had software RAID or something that had "striping". LuLZ!

 

[MrCrispy]

single UI that works with multiple input devices

But it doesn't work with keyboard+moue as has been pointed out multiple times. It only works with touch.

And see I think this is the crux of the matter, something that's old is changing, that's always going to meet with resistance and much of it has nothing to do with the change itself, just that its changing.

Totally wrong. Change is welcome. Change for no reason at all is not.

This sounds like 'you're with us or against us' if anyone dares to say Metro without touch is bad. New touch features can be added without destroying the way things work with old input devices. Why is that so hard to believe?

 

[heatlesssun]

Tons of people are switching to macs and windows 8 is going to accelerate that in its current state.

Well the same was said of Vista and that didn't exactly create a mass exodus from Windows. Plus if dealing with the Metro is so hard for a Windows user then I don't see how OS X would be better.

At least with Windows 8 all the software and hardware you have would still work.

 

[Eman D. Rahym]

But it doesn't work with keyboard+moue as has been pointed out multiple times. It only works with touch.

Wow. This surprises me. I've been running Windows 8 for months now and have only used a mouse and keyboard with it in all that time. Seems to me it's a fine OS. What are these touch only features that I've been missing out on?

 

[chinesepiratefood]

You are right, there is no reason that adding touch features should cost the mouse / keyboard and desktop. But it does and this is what we are mad about. Poor design choices. I had not thought about it until reading that article but perhaps it is right. MS could be purposely making it a pain to switch to the windows 7 desktop to push metro, but I can promise you that will be a huge mistake for them. Tons of people are switching to macs and windows 8 is going to accelerate that in its current state.

But its not a pain to switch to desktop mode. Now that multi-monitor is fixed (something I have widely criticized) the only thing I can think of that the "mouse and keyboard sucks in W8" crowd has left is difficulty when in a windowed VM, without capturing the mouse.

 

[rudy]

I have windows 8 running on an 8 year olds desktop. Screw double monitors 85% of people dont use them. Many things in windows 8 take more steps to complete, just try shutting down the computer and you will get it. What a rube goldberg mechanism. Things are not intuitive. People are right its not about touch vs mouse / keyboard, its about bad design choices. People do not make decisions based on multiple monitors and VMs, most people only have one monitor and don't even have a clue what a VM is, and most of them hate windows 8.

Whatever you can argue till you are blue in the fact it wont change the fact that people do not like this and at the end of the day this is going to be a repeat of vista with poor sales and huge negative feedback. Just look at this thread and all the threads like it accross the internet.

MS needs a start menu icon, they need to make it clear which programs are open, they need to NOT have 2 different internet explorers and 2 different versions of so many programs. Average users are confused and this is going to be a disaster. Keep defending them it will allow them to justify it instead of addressing the problems. There is no good flow between the completely needed win 7 desktop and the metro desktop. They should have made metro the background in windows 7, and made the start menu just have a metro look, so when you went to the desktop it looked like 8 metro but when you opened programs they would hover over it or something. I dont know its just not working out. Everyone I sit at the machine hates it and cant find their way around.

 

[heatlesssun]

But it doesn't work with keyboard+moue as has been pointed out multiple times. It only works with touch.

For something that only works with touch it's amazing how well I and many others even on this forum are using it with keyboards and mice just fine. The things I say about Windows 8 usability have come with a LOT of hours of use across keyboards, mice, touch and pen using Windows as I normally have over the years. Software development, gaming, content creation using office, audio and video entertainment and a whole host of other stuff. And through it all there were three main issues I've noticed with using mice and keyboards.

1. The hot corners don't work well with multiple monitors. It looks like Microsoft has addressed this one and indeed I can see a lot of people preferring to use Windows 8 on multiple monitors over Windows 7.

2. No way switch with the mouse only to a specific program running on the desktop using the hot corners though Alt-TAB does the job pretty nicely. Hopefully there's something for this.

3. Not all Metro programs work well with a keyboard and mouse, some do, some don't but this is something that's widely known as an issue and even in the CP release a couple of the apps were updated to address this very issue. So as Metro app development matures and Windows 8 stabilizes I would suspect this will become less and less of an issue.

And sure we can go on about the Start Screen, wasted space, etc. but I find those things to be more matters of judgment than real usability issues. This is a different UI, things are different. If you want a dense and compact Start Menu, well ok, not there. How much that truly impacts efficiency, I don't think as much as some make it out to be when you get used to it.

Totally wrong. Change is welcome. Change for no reason at all is not.

This sounds like 'you're with us or against us' if anyone dares to say Metro without touch is bad. New touch features can be added without destroying the way things work with old input devices. Why is that so hard to believe?

All I am saying is that I think the whole 'Metro destroys the desktop' is way overstated. Yes, it's a pretty radical change but overall I think it works better on the desktop than people who don't like it. But again, I use it everyday on three different devices and I've adjusted to it, probably something that people that don't like it have because, well they don't like and aren't using it much I would think since they don't like it.

At the end of the day it's all going to be about how well Windows 8 sells. And yes, I think there are people that don't like it and are afraid that it will do well because they will see it as a diminishment of the classic keyboard and mouse desktop. I want Windows 8 to succeed because I LOVE the idea of a unified UI that works across any device as well as programs.

But sure, the UI can be improved and it looks like Microsoft is working on at least some things, like multiple monitors and I'm sure there's more. I don't think Microsoft is a tone deaf as people make them out to be. But they saw the writing on the wall where the PC is facing SERIOUS challenges from phones and tablets and they did realize that people are using computers in very different ways than just even five years ago. Windows simply could survive as a large scale mainstream consumer product if it stayed just about keyboards and mice. And making Metro an option would only delay the transition to the post PC keyboard and mouse only era.

 

[Eman D. Rahym]

I have windows 8 running on an 8 year olds desktop. Screw double monitors 85% of people dont use them. Many things in windows 8 take more steps to complete, just try shutting down the computer and you will get it. What a rube goldberg mechanism. Things are not intuitive. People are right its not about touch vs mouse / keyboard, its about bad design choices. People do not make decisions based on multiple monitors and VMs, most people only have one monitor and don't even have a clue what a VM is, and most of them hate windows 8.

How is going to the Power Setting to shut down your PC a Rube Goldberg mechanism? Yet you think going to "Start" to shut down a PC is intuitive? I'll agree though that Windows 8 is about bad design choices. With regard to Sleep/Restart/Shutdown Windows 8 is fixing the bad design choice of placing those options in the Start Menu.

Whatever you can argue till you are blue in the fact it wont change the fact that people do not like this and at the end of the day this is going to be a repeat of vista with poor sales and huge negative feedback. Just look at this thread and all the threads like it accross the internet.

Actually, the fact is that some people do not like the changes to Windows 8. Others are just fine with them. You may argue that the folks who dislike it are presently the majority. If that is the case, I'll say it's because at present with the handful of alpha quality Metro apps available there is no real point to Metro. Once Windows 8 hits general availability and the number and quality of Metro apps explodes then I think we'll see the numbers of people willing to live with Metro quickly become the vast majority.

MS needs a start menu icon,

Why?

they need to make it clear which programs are open,

Look at the taskbar.

they need to NOT have 2 different internet explorers and 2 different versions of so many programs.

Besides internet explorer, what other Microsoft programs come in two versions?

Average users are confused

What average user is running Windows 8 at this time? Seems to me it would require an above average user to even be aware of the Consumer Preview, much less download it and install it. If the average user is not running it, how can they be confused by it?

There is no good flow between the completely needed win 7 desktop and the metro desktop.

Why should there be? When I'm on the desktop I'm doing desktop type things. When I'm in Metro, I'm doing Metro type things. I can only do one thing at a time. Why do I need to "flow" between the two?

They should have made metro the background in windows 7, and made the start menu just have a metro look, so when you went to the desktop it looked like 8 metro but when you opened programs they would hover over it or something. I dont know its just not working out. Everyone I sit at the machine hates it and cant find their way around.

So far everyone I've sat down in front of Metro has been either neutral or loved it. I've yet to see a hater. I've yet to see one who after a quick explanation of hot corners and charms can't find their way around it, either. Seriously, tying your shoes is a more sophisticated mental abstraction than using Metro. Your average user will be able to grasp the concept of hot corners and use them just fine.

 

[heatlesssun]

Besides internet explorer, what other Microsoft programs come in two versions?

Great post, agree with everything but I do think that multiple versions of apps, ones geared for mouse and keyboard and ones geared for touch is a good thing if they can work well together. The Metro IE 10 browser is just so fast and smooth with touch without the plug-ins, I like using it a keyboard and mouse even. And the desktop IE version works fine with touch as well, though the UI isn't quite as touch friendly.

The thing about Windows 8 is that it does have options, it doesn't destroy the desktop, it just keeping touch in mind and indeed you have options on the programs you want to use based on how one is using the machines.

 

[rudy]

goto "start menu" the invisible thing in the corner of the screen
settings,
go accross the screen to the other side of the monitor
click the power button, does it power down? no
now pick shut down.

But heres the best part alot of people dont know or get this so they do an even worse thing where they goto their account, log off then get presented with a useless screen by default, have to learn to grab it and push it up, then press the power button, then select shutdown.

Ya you guys are totally not getting it, thats why you will sit around baffled when you see the media and people trash this OS when it releases and apple will just keep gaining market share.


window 7
start > shutdown (2 clicks near each other, if you want to do something different than the default its 3 clicks, all close to each other)

back in vista MS moved forward they realized the whole extra steps thing to shutdown the computer was stupid so they improved it, now they are just going backwards.

You do not implement the most radical change to a desktop OS ever and just half ass it which is what is going on here. You try to smooth people in a little.

 

[DeathFromBelow]

Yet you think going to "Start" to shut down a PC is intuitive?

It hasn't been labeled 'start' for half a decade now. It was a simple menu, it worked well, and everyone knows how to use it.

 

[Unknown-One]

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I generally use the physical power button on my machine to shut it down.

It doesn't suddenly kill power to the machine, it tells Windows to begin the shutdown process and turn off the machine when it's ready. I believe you can also tell Windows to present you a list of options when the physical power button is pressed, rather than immediately initiating the shutdown process.

Kinda wish there were a way to remove the "shutdown" thing from the Windows 7 Start Menu, totally redundant for me.

 

[wonderfield]

As a counterpoint to that: the power button on my PC is totally redundant. I boot from either WOL or with the keyboard and shut down via the "Charms Bar".

 

[heatlesssun]

Ya you guys are totally not getting it, thats why you will sit around baffled when you see the media and people trash this OS when it releases and apple will just keep gaining market share.

Who knows. But it's going to be hard to trash totally new form factors that most media pundits have never used. Or the incredibly fast booting and better battery life. Or thousands of new Metro apps. There's just a LOT more to Windows 8 than the new UI.
[/QUOTE]

window 7
start > shutdown (2 clicks near each other, if you want to do something different than the default its 3 clicks, all close to each other)

back in vista MS moved forward they realized the whole extra steps thing to shutdown the computer was stupid so they improved it, now they are just going backwards.

You do not implement the most radical change to a desktop OS ever and just half ass it which is what is going on here. You try to smooth people in a little.

Of all of the criticisms of Windows 8, this one is the most puzzling. Why would anyone turn their laptop off with the UI? You close the lid, that's how everyone I know does it. And computers can turn themselves off these days, have for a long time.

You say people that like Windows 8 aren't getting it. Perhaps, but personally when looking at Windows 8 I've actually taken the criticisms to heart and used the product extensively to see if I could reach the same conclusion from actual USE, not guesswork or wishful thinking. And I simply cannot conclude that Metro is as flawed as its detractors are saying on the desktop. If all of these criticisms were true, then why are plenty of people using it with few complaints? True usability issues should reproducible and easily explained and demonstrable and shouldn't be tied to existing conventions and total. That's not to say that improvements cannot and shouldn't be made to Metro, the Release Preview will be different in regards to keyboard and mouse usability.

There have been a number of those "Dad using Windows 8" videos around that show dads struggling with Windows 8. That's not a usability problem, that's a training issue due to expectations of a 17 year old UI. What I would like to see more of is how people adapt after a brief tutorial and a few days use. I have a feeling things would be quite different. Doing something because that's the way you've been doing it for 17 years is a valid point, but it's also the kind of thing that keeps products from evolving, there's no free lunch.

Metro makes sense when you see it work across different form factors. When using a mouse you point to the top and bottom left and top right corners and right click and on a touch device you swipe from the four edges. That's 75% of using Metro in a sentence.

 

[Eman D. Rahym]

I'm not trying to pick on you personally, rudy. But you've got to admit that divergent opinions add a little spice to the fora!

goto "start menu" the invisible thing in the corner of the screen
settings,
go accross the screen to the other side of the monitor
click the power button, does it power down? no
now pick shut down.

Why would you call up the Start Screen to shut down your PC? You can get to the Charms bar from your desktop or from within a Metro app in addition to doing so from the Start Screen. Just go to one of the two right corners and you're there. There's no need to detour through the Start Screen.

When I put my machine to sleep at night I generally tidy it up by closing all the open windows. When I'm done my mouse cursor is near the top right corner of the screen. I just keep going into the top right corner, drag down to the Settings Charm and put the machine to sleep. Windows 8 is actually more convenient for me than Windows 7 was.

But heres the best part alot of people dont know or get this so they do an even worse thing where they goto their account, log off then get presented with a useless screen by default, have to learn to grab it and push it up, then press the power button, then select shutdown.

Sounds like a training issue to me. Rumor has it that Microsoft will include some sort of tutorial with the shipping version of Windows 8, but even if they don't, how long will it take to tell someone "The shutdown options are now over here in the Charms Bar. To get to the Charms bar move your mouse into either right hand corner of the screen, then slide the cursor down or up until you get to the Settings Charm. Click on the Settings Charm and then click on the Power icon." Read out loud those sentences in quotes and that's how long it will take to tell someone how to find the new location for the power options. How is this a big deal?

Ya you guys are totally not getting it, thats why you will sit around baffled when you see the media and people trash this OS when it releases and apple will just keep gaining market share.

I do admit I spend a lot of time being baffled at the media and people trashing Windows 8. You're right, I just don't get what the problem is. It's simply not that hard to use.

You do not implement the most radical change to a desktop OS ever and just half ass it which is what is going on here. You try to smooth people in a little.

As I said above, rumor has it Microsoft will include a tutorial with Windows 8. Apparently they guessed wrong when they thought the "power users" who would be running the preview wouldn't need one. And if you think this is a radical change now, wait until the Windows Store is actually stocked with apps worth running. That's when you can start talking about radical. Until then Windows 8 looks and works pretty much like Windows 7.1 to me.

 

[Eman D. Rahym]

It hasn't been labeled 'start' for half a decade now. It was a simple menu, it worked well, and everyone knows how to use it.

I would say the Start Screen is also simple, it also works well and everyone can learn how to use it too. I'd say the Start Screen is easier to use as it doesn't require precision mousing skills to use it. Not everyone is as proficient with a mouse as the residents of the [H]ard Forum are.

Perhaps one reason I am not disgruntled by Windows 8 is that ever since Windows 7 came out I've hardly ever used the Start Menu except to get to the power options. Between pinning apps to the Taskbar and using jump lists there's really no need for me to do so except to put the machine to sleep and to track down the occasional obscure app. I don't miss the Start Menu one bit. For me the experience of using Windows 8 is pretty darn close to the experience of using Windows 7. I expect that to change once the Windows Store has a decent selection of apps in it.

I am more than happy to do the trivial task of learning the new Start Screen paradigm if doing so gives me access to the Windows Store. Why not? It takes away from me nothing I need nor care about and gives me additional functionality that I otherwise would not have. How is this a bad thing?

 

[chinesepiratefood]

Could shutdown/restart be more accessible in W8? YES. But we are talking about spending 0.5 extra seconds to shutdown/restart, which isn't exactly a common occurrence. So while yes, it could be better discussing that issue as if it has any impact on the usability of the OS is a bit ridiculous.

 

[MrCrispy]

For something that only works with touch it's amazing how well I and many others even on this forum are using it with keyboards and mice just fine. The things I say about Windows 8 usability have come with a LOT of hours of use across keyboards, mice, touch and pen using Windows as I normally have over the years. Software development, gaming, content creation using office, audio and video entertainment and a whole host of other stuff. And through it all there were three main issues I've noticed with using mice and keyboards.

1. The hot corners don't work well with multiple monitors. It looks like Microsoft has addressed this one and indeed I can see a lot of people preferring to use Windows 8 on multiple monitors over Windows 7.

2. No way switch with the mouse only to a specific program running on the desktop using the hot corners though Alt-TAB does the job pretty nicely. Hopefully there's something for this.

3. Not all Metro programs work well with a keyboard and mouse, some do, some don't but this is something that's widely known as an issue and even in the CP release a couple of the apps were updated to address this very issue. So as Metro app development matures and Windows 8 stabilizes I would suspect this will become less and less of an issue.

And sure we can go on about the Start Screen, wasted space, etc. but I find those things to be more matters of judgment than real usability issues. This is a different UI, things are different. If you want a dense and compact Start Menu, well ok, not there. How much that truly impacts efficiency, I don't think as much as some make it out to be when you get used to it.




All I am saying is that I think the whole 'Metro destroys the desktop' is way overstated. Yes, it's a pretty radical change but overall I think it works better on the desktop than people who don't like it. But again, I use it everyday on three different devices and I've adjusted to it, probably something that people that don't like it have because, well they don't like and aren't using it much I would think since they don't like it.

At the end of the day it's all going to be about how well Windows 8 sells. And yes, I think there are people that don't like it and are afraid that it will do well because they will see it as a diminishment of the classic keyboard and mouse desktop. I want Windows 8 to succeed because I LOVE the idea of a unified UI that works across any device as well as programs.

But sure, the UI can be improved and it looks like Microsoft is working on at least some things, like multiple monitors and I'm sure there's more. I don't think Microsoft is a tone deaf as people make them out to be. But they saw the writing on the wall where the PC is facing SERIOUS challenges from phones and tablets and they did realize that people are using computers in very different ways than just even five years ago. Windows simply could survive as a large scale mainstream consumer product if it stayed just about keyboards and mice. And making Metro an option would only delay the transition to the post PC keyboard and mouse only era.

Once again, you are justifying the new design and saying how it's not too bad. And making the same assumption - that this is the ONLY way Win 8 can support touch. This is so wrong I don't even know where to start.

You are a power user and it seems you cannot imagine just how frustrating these choices are for normal users. Everything in Win 8 is designed for "touch first" to the detriment of desktop. Keep the new UI for tablets, give desktop users the familiar, efficient UI we have.

I want to give this to my friends and family. I want them to enjoy the benefits of a modern faster OS. But I've already tried this with friends, spent hours patiently showing them how it works, and in the end they ask me to put the old windows back since its just too hard to use.

This is a UI designed to look cool and flashy, not to be fast and easy to use.

 

[MrCrispy]

The thing is all these issues are easily fixable with minor UI tweaks, but Microsoft is obstinate and apparently are going to force this down our throats. And it's going to overshadow the real improvements in the OS. You already see this in the comments on Microsoft blogs.

 

[chinesepiratefood]

Once again, you are justifying the new design and saying how it's not too bad. And making the same assumption - that this is the ONLY way Win 8 can support touch. This is so wrong I don't even know where to start.

You are a power user and it seems you cannot imagine just how frustrating these choices are for normal users. Everything in Win 8 is designed for "touch first" to the detriment of desktop. Keep the new UI for tablets, give desktop users the familiar, efficient UI we have.

I want to give this to my friends and family. I want them to enjoy the benefits of a modern faster OS. But I've already tried this with friends, spent hours patiently showing them how it works, and in the end they ask me to put the old windows back since its just too hard to use.

This is a UI designed to look cool and flashy, not to be fast and easy to use.

Please explain what is hard to use?