Microsoft Softens Response to Piracy

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When I first read the headline “Microsoft softens response to piracy” I thought they were taking a step backwards. Well, that is until I read what the new approach would be:

In the new version, PC users found to have a pirated copy of Vista will continue to be able to use their computers, but with unmistakable signs their operating system is a fake. The desktop wallpaper will turn black, and a white notice will appear alerting users to the problem. Each time they log in, they will be prompted to buy legitimate software, and every hour, a reminder bubble will appear on the screen.
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Can't really fault them for this, its annoying enough to actually convince people to buy the damn software.
 
I don't know its becoming rather annoying for the average consumer, even as an IT specialist. With my experience I know what to do with "genuine software" tests or re-verifying a serial number, but the average parent who I help, does not.

1. I bought vista x64 from newegg, motherboard was fried. I was able to boot windows once, and registered. I put a new motherboard in. Now it says my copy of vista is fake... I havn't called to re-verify over the phone but it now freezes upon bootup so I can no longer login. Thanks microsoft.

2. Windows XP users: all the genuine software and verification software to get updates or to use windows updates or to install windows defender.... the average user says f-it. Then they do not get the security updates and get more viruses, then it makes them hate microsoft more.

Try installing windows defender with a 50+ year old new to computers... it will be fun I promise. They will not even get past the genuine software page.
 
What exactly is the message here?

"Users with a high tolerance for irritation can put off switching to genuine software indefinitely, but those who relent and buy a real copy of Windows can do so at reduced prices -- $119 for Windows Vista Home Premium, half the regular retail price."
 
I liken WGA to gun control. Makes it much harder for legit people, and doesn't deter the black market even the slightest. Actually, this sounds alot like typical DRM scenarios...
 
jroe52 said:
I don't know its becoming rather annoying for the average consumer, even as an IT specialist. With my experience I know what to do with "genuine software" tests or re-verifying a serial number, but the average parent who I help, does not.

1. I bought vista x64 from newegg, motherboard was fried. I was able to boot windows once, and registered. I put a new motherboard in. Now it says my copy of vista is fake... I havn't called to re-verify over the phone but it now freezes upon bootup so I can no longer login. Thanks microsoft.

2. Windows XP users: all the genuine software and verification software to get updates or to use windows updates or to install windows defender.... the average user says f-it. Then they do not get the security updates and get more viruses, then it makes them hate microsoft more.

Try installing windows defender with a 50+ year old new to computers... it will be fun I promise. They will not even get past the genuine software page.
Click to expand...

1) The fried motherboard had nothing to do with it? Such as corrupt data? Maybe it damaged other components?

2) You can still get all the updates from MS without passing the test. You just can't get them by opening the Windows Update site, but instead, turn on auto updates and it will update itself. You can even get IE7 now.
 
I agree. This is the same with p2p... in college you have two groups

1. the ultra nerds, the guys that figure out the latest tech, (the average person doesn't know what a torrent is). some will even p2p on irc which is like time traveling to 1982.

2. the average kid.... they want to listen to music and can't afford lunch.. so they launch "kazaa" (back in 2001 when I started college)... they then download 5 brittney spears and nsync songs (girls in 2001 pcs i fixed)... which then gives them at least 200 viruses and spyware problems... eventually they give up and either

a. have someone get them the music

b. have someone buy them the music

c. get a friends cd and burn it

etc...

so the average limwire/bearshare/kazaa/shareaza user will be fully infected with spyware and adaware.... and viruses... doesn't that help solve the problem out through darwinism?

i honestly think a lot of these anti-piracy thingies is crap for both sides... it makes it annoying for users and full of BS on the lawyers side...

why don't they go after piraters that sell software/music/movies for money, rather then the 70 year old lady whose grandchild downloaded their fav back street boys song?
 
jroe52 said:
I don't know its becoming rather annoying for the average consumer, even as an IT specialist. With my experience I know what to do with "genuine software" tests or re-verifying a serial number, but the average parent who I help, does not.

1. I bought vista x64 from newegg, motherboard was fried. I was able to boot windows once, and registered. I put a new motherboard in. Now it says my copy of vista is fake... I havn't called to re-verify over the phone but it now freezes upon bootup so I can no longer login. Thanks microsoft.

2. Windows XP users: all the genuine software and verification software to get updates or to use windows updates or to install windows defender.... the average user says f-it. Then they do not get the security updates and get more viruses, then it makes them hate microsoft more.

Try installing windows defender with a 50+ year old new to computers... it will be fun I promise. They will not even get past the genuine software page.
Click to expand...



You my friend are Preacher.

Preach on.

Little off topic:

It's funny cause we had a batch of laptops(I'll refrain from saying the manufacturer) in our store that kept getting that "Not Genuine" message with Vista Home Basic.

Suffice to say word spread and the return rate of said laptop was enormous.
 
Met-AL said:
2) You can still get all the updates from MS without passing the test. You just can't get them by opening the Windows Update site, but instead, turn on auto updates and it will update itself. You can even get IE7 now.
Click to expand...

If I'm understanding what you're saying here, that's not true. Turning on automatic updates, the first thing that is required to be installed is WGA and installation "verification" software in order to get updates: i.e. the validation bullshit MS shoves down everyone's throat. Your system will not be able to retrieve updates unless you install the validation garbage.

Of course, it's not the same as all the nonsense as going to the Windows Update site, but it's relatively close. No big deal really, just dl'ing and installing it, but still is intrusive and annoying.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, and there's another way, which I'd love to know... especially because I just reformatted three drives and dealt with all of that, as per the usual.

All the damn validation garbage is just out of control.
 
This should heavily reduce the damage like was caused last year with the rash of false-alarms due to a downed server. Giant enterprises won't stand for a complete lockdown of their workstations and servers over something like that, but something like this is only an irritation that's easily fixed when convenient. Much better.
 
most of my clients i've helped in the last 3 years at uw-milwaukee or at other places think their computer is safe since automatic updates is on...

if you goto windowsupdate.com and verify their genuine system stuff for them, the site shows they are missing like 40 updates... how does that help?
 
jroe52 said:
I don't know its becoming rather annoying for the average consumer, even as an IT specialist. With my experience I know what to do with "genuine software" tests or re-verifying a serial number, but the average parent who I help, does not.

1. I bought vista x64 from newegg, motherboard was fried. I was able to boot windows once, and registered. I put a new motherboard in. Now it says my copy of vista is fake... I havn't called to re-verify over the phone but it now freezes upon bootup so I can no longer login. Thanks microsoft.
Click to expand...

you have 30 days to activate vista from the time you install it. why would you activate it immediately before you made sure you had a stable system? seems like its your own fault and not microsofts. regardless though a simple 5 minute phone call would have gotten you activated again anyway.
 
Met-AL said:
1)2) You can still get all the updates from MS without passing the test. You just can't get them by opening the Windows Update site, but instead, turn on auto updates and it will update itself. You can even get IE7 now.
Click to expand...

As long as you select Custom during the update prompt and leave out WGA Advantage.

But what do I know? ;)
 
ObscureTerror said:
If I'm understanding what you're saying here, that's not true. Turning on automatic updates, the first thing that is required to be installed is WGA and installation "verification" software in order to get updates: i.e. the validation bullshit MS shoves down everyone's throat. Your system will not be able to retrieve updates unless you install the validation garbage.

Of course, it's not the same as all the nonsense as going to the Windows Update site, but it's relatively close. No big deal really, just dl'ing and installing it, but still is intrusive and annoying.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, and there's another way, which I'd love to know... especially because I just reformatted three drives and dealt with all of that, as per the usual.

All the damn validation garbage is just out of control.
Click to expand...

Actually you are able to deselect WGA Advantage during an update. Just don't allow the update to install automatically. Change your setting to "Download and notify before applying updates" and then go through it and select what you want to install and deselect the ones you don't.
 
rhexis said:
you have 30 days to activate vista from the time you install it. why would you activate it immediately before you made sure you had a stable system? seems like its your own fault and not microsofts. regardless though a simple 5 minute phone call would have gotten you activated again anyway.
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How the hell is it his fault? No one expects a mobo to fry, and I'm sure he didn't activate it within seconds without getting the system up-and-running.

And yes, it is Microsoft's fault for being such a pain in the ass with all their activation/limitation bullshit. Who the fuck has time or tolerance --or feels like going against the principal of 'when you buying something, it's yours' and you shouldn't have to-- make constant phone calls to some jag-off in fucking India just to activate your OS? Software you already own?

Maybe some don't have a problem with that, but when you do IT work and/or run your own business and/or just generally reformat your drives regularly (which most enthusiasts do), it's a time-wasting, invasive pain-in-the-ass to have to call MS, on top of already dealing with all the other activation bullshit.
 
LOL. It's funny cause the majority of copies that show up as not "genuine" will be the legit customers who have to deal with MS. The pirated copies will just patch that stuff away.
 
Azhar said:
Actually you are able to deselect WGA Advantage during an update. Just don't allow the update to install automatically. Change your setting to "Download and notify before applying updates" and then go through it and select what you want to install and deselect the ones you don't.
Click to expand...

I always set it up that way, but w/o installing WGA or the software for their actual installer and activation nonsense, I cant get updates without installing it. You still have to "authenticate" your version of Windows, and use the MS Installer software to get the updates on top of that.

I'll give it a shot though, again, maybe grab some old drive and try to get around it that way as you suggest, but I've never been able to get away with that.
 
ObscureTerror said:
How the hell is it his fault? No one expects a mobo to fry, and I'm sure he didn't activate it within seconds without getting the system up-and-running.

And yes, it is Microsoft's fault for being such a pain in the ass with all their activation/limitation bullshit. Who the fuck has time or tolerance --or feels like going against the principal of 'when you buying something, it's yours' and you shouldn't have to-- make constant phone calls to some jag-off in fucking India just to activate your OS? Software you already own?

Maybe some don't have a problem with that, but when you do IT work and/or run your own business and/or just generally reformat your drives regularly (which most enthusiasts do), it's a time-wasting, invasive pain-in-the-ass to have to call MS, on top of already dealing with all the other activation bullshit.
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So much hate.

What he meant was that the computer locking up prior to Windows booting up is not Microsoft's fault, but the user's fault for not repairing his computer completely. It's obviously not. He replaced a motherboard and it's still got problems, so for all we know, the drive got knocked offline too.

Activation has nothing to do with a computer locking up, so quit laying all of the blame on Microsoft.

As for the IT comment, it annoys me to no end when people freely throw in "it's a pain for IT people..." when it's NOT! I'm an IT manager and I have NO problems whatsoever with hundreds of our Windows machines and several Windows servers! Take classes or stay the hell away from computers if Microsoft bothers you so much.
 
Zerikin Loukbel said:
LOL. It's funny cause the majority of copies that show up as not "genuine" will be the legit customers who have to deal with MS. The pirated copies will just patch that stuff away.
Click to expand...

Exactly, and it's that kind of b.s. irony that further fuels the "cause" of pirates, because it's always the honest paying customer that gets the shaft. Hence exactly why, much (not all) of the time, pirates do what they do, because this type of bull with MS (or game devs, other software companies etc.) is unacceptable.

I know people who no longer pay for almost any software they use, period, because they grew tired of dealing with the bullshit of activations, activation limitations, and in some cases actually being hit in the wallet by software what only allowed for something like two installs, they paid a few hundred dollars for the program, then were forced to pay again for another license... fucking, what!? In one case it was a buddy of mine with Adobe Audition. $300 program. Installed it twice, and couldn't install it again without paying another $30 for another license. He said, "fuck it" and got a perfectly-working crack that allows the prog to work fully... and I don't blame him.

MS and Adobe, especially, are disgusting. It's like friggin' extortion.
 
i dont know i thought 48 hours was a long enough time... i waited about 2 days before activating and my mb pooped out...


another annoying microsoft feature is endless loops rather then showing you error messages. thats greatly appreciated too... even when automatic restart is turned off for errors.
 
Azhar said:
So much hate.

What he meant was that the computer locking up prior to Windows booting up is not Microsoft's fault, but the user's fault for not repairing his computer completely. It's obviously not. He replaced a motherboard and it's still got problems, so for all we know, the drive got knocked offline too.

Activation has nothing to do with a computer locking up, so quit laying all of the blame on Microsoft.

As for the IT comment, it annoys me to no end when people freely throw in "it's a pain for IT people..." when it's NOT! I'm an IT manager and I have NO problems whatsoever with hundreds of our Windows machines and several Windows servers! Take classes or stay the hell away from computers if Microsoft bothers you so much.
Click to expand...

LOL. Hate? No. It just seemed like an unjustified attack on the guy, and I know what he's talking about. You could be right and something happened to the drive, but still, how is that his fault? Maybe he didn't realize and/or couldn't tell right away what might have occurred?

Well, if you're an IT manager, then you're using a corporate copy of Windows that is meant to be "redistributed" on numerous computers w/o having to call MS for validation every time you install it, such as what college IT's use for all computers in their library, as an example. That saves a lot of time and trouble right there. I'd know, because I have a copy of XP Pro that is meant to be used the same way, and I could install it today literally 400 times w/o once having to call MS to validate it because it is a valid/legit copy of Windows, but meant to be used in such a way.

As for the updates, well... whatever. It's an annoyance, but as long as it doesn't get worse in the long-run, I don't care. I've nothing "against" MS except some of their methods that can and do make things difficult for people a lot of the time. Maybe you're not seeing it, but you'd have to be blind. Every take a stroll around the net and see all the countless people getting annoyed with/having problems with activations, updates etc.? Maybe you should take a look around sometime. But, either way... not my "battle". I do what I do, you do what you do, and we're all here having a lovely discussion. LOL.
 
Dang people....

Let's look at it this way.... We're in the tech industry. Let's look at this way: If sh*t ain't broken --- who's going to need you? Sure the super hot chicks wouldn't really care, but you at least feel superior and feel like you have a chance when you've fixed her tech gadgets and computer.

I know that was a little off-topic but other software are WORSE than Windows WGA as far as activation. Like ones that you can't even install if you don't have the install code. I have this problem right now. Yet they don't return my call when I call their customer service department!!!!
 
Microsoft doesn't annoy me that much with activation. I've been snagged by it a few times, but I just call and have to read some numbers, then type in the numbers they give back and I'm fine until I upgrade my computer again or something goes wrong like a bad hotfix. The key to the not annoying me is that they don't fight you over it, and they are available 24 hours a day. If they weren't open 24 hours a day, or they made it a huge pain to reactivate my opinion on activation of Windows would be completely different.

Bioshock by contrast was an example of a horrible design. You got 2 installs, total (if you uninstall, and reinstall on the same computer you've just used your 2 installs), you called the company and you didn't get any more, you were just out of luck. And the tech support line had pretty limited hours during which they could tell you they couldn't help so you waited for hours on wait only to hear the "We can't do anything".
 
jroe52 said:
Then they do not get the security updates and get more viruses, then it makes them hate microsoft more.
Click to expand...


My mother tried to update her old box (that i forgot about) to SP2 and found it nearly impossible to find SP2 on the MS website. Trying to run windows update just gave an error of "you need sp2 lulz". So I ran off to track down SP2, then instead of worrying about the WGA bullshite, I ran to that Firefox-only windows update site and got everything installer lickety-split :D
 
I'm a bit confused, you can install Vista without installing a key. So you installed it once, it fried, you replaced the MB and put Vista back on. Even if it already has been registered, don't you still get that 30 days? I know when I install it I don't put the key in right away, I install it, get everything up and running and then enter the key in windows.

I'm just a little confused at the timeline, are you saying after the MB fried and you put the new one on you can't install Vista at all, or you installed it and now after 30 days it locked you out? Like I said, you should be able to install it anyway, and then call MS up and have them reactivate the code for you.

Unless I'm wrong on all of this...:eek:
 
For those who say it's just a 5 minute call, could you imagine if all software companies did that? You'd have to make a 100 f***ing phone calls to get everything set up.

They probably changed it to help pirates. Could you imagine what would happen if Microsoft was able to stop Windows piracy. 90% of the developing world would have to switch to Linux, and in a generation Linux would become the dominant OS in the world. Without piracy MS would lose their monopoly and their evil empire would fall.
 
1) You get the windows activation message.
2) You cannot activate online and need to call in order to activate.
3) Pickup phone and call 888-571-2048 read off installation ID, and maybe have to answer 3~4 questions if you talk to an operator.

It really is not that difficult kids, if you don't like it, you do have other options of operating systems.
 
I wound up buying a technet subscription. Haven't regretted it. I had one issue with WGA screwing up corporate licenses due to that server outage deal, thank god for Deep Freeze or I would have been days updating 1000 workstation. :cool:

However, I too would get annoyed if DF was not on the machines and had to go and fix them all. I would be a hater for certain. As for Vista, my x64 on my Raid setup in the sig has blown up like 20 times in the passed year and a half (not Microsoft's fault but the crappy Intel integrated raid) I have found it more pleasant to restore and back up then XP ever was.
 
ObscureTerror said:
If I'm understanding what you're saying here, that's not true. Turning on automatic updates, the first thing that is required to be installed is WGA and installation "verification" software in order to get updates: i.e. the validation bullshit MS shoves down everyone's throat. Your system will not be able to retrieve updates unless you install the validation garbage.
Click to expand...

My main PC at home has Windows XP on it. The disc is the original version of XP from like 2002 or whenever it came out. I have never authenticated it, but it is activated. The last time I installed windows was back in 2005 and I have avoided the whole WGA mess primarily because of the massive amount of FUD about it. I still get all the updates.

About every six months I would geuss, the WGA is in the updates to be installed and I just delcine it and go on about my business.
 
I need to add that I downloaded both service packs and installed them instead of using the update. That maybe the way around it, with SP2 it includes the new auto updater, perhaps.
 
BladeVenom said:
For those who say it's just a 5 minute call, could you imagine if all software companies did that? You'd have to make a 100 f***ing phone calls to get everything set up.

They probably changed it to help pirates. Could you imagine what would happen if Microsoft was able to stop Windows piracy. 90% of the developing world would have to switch to Linux, and in a generation Linux would become the dominant OS in the world. Without piracy MS would lose their monopoly and their evil empire would fall.
Click to expand...

Are you saying that Linux is the only solution for these developing world?

What is it that's so evil of MS? If you are the owner of a company at that level, why wouldn't you want to stay at the top of the industry? I know that if someone was trying to take me down from there, they would have to fight hard to do so.

There are other companies just as big, and they're just as monopolistic -- yet you don't really hear much complaints (think of oil and phone). I could be wrong, but you can always correct me.
 
desktop wallpaper will turn black
Click to expand...

I have had my wall set to none and the back ground color set to black for a long long time. Does this mean when they roll this out I'm gonna turn into a pirate? Guess I better start practicing... Arrr.. aaRRRRggg Arrrrhhh. Hmm maybe I'll just finally get a wallpaper.


Seriously though, I have a legal student copy of windows. I allways select the option that lets me see what updates it wants me to install, and I have never let it install the WGA update. I still recieve updates. I don't need microsoft to tell me my copy is a legal copy. I know it is.
 
LANm0nk3y said:
Are you saying that Linux is the only solution for these developing world?
Click to expand...
No there are other choices like FreeBSD, but Linux is more popular. A legal copy of Windows costs as much as some people in the world make in a month. So if it weren't for piracy a lot of people couldn't afford to use Windows. Piracy rate is almost 90% in some countries.

What is it that's so evil of MS?
Click to expand...
Violations of anti-monopoly law, and more cases of patent infringement than I can remember.

There are other companies just as big, and they're just as monopolistic -- yet you don't really hear much complaints (think of oil and phone). I could be wrong, but you can always correct me.
Click to expand...
Both oil companies and phone companies have been broken up before. On a tech board obviously MS is going to get more attention. I think both have gotten plenty of negative attention, especially in the past. The average non techie probably complains about oil and phone companies more than they do about MS. Windows comes "free" with their pre-built computer so they don't even notice the cost.
 
Met-AL said:
My main PC at home has Windows XP on it. The disc is the original version of XP from like 2002 or whenever it came out. I have never authenticated it, but it is activated. The last time I installed windows was back in 2005 and I have avoided the whole WGA mess primarily because of the massive amount of FUD about it. I still get all the updates.

About every six months I would geuss, the WGA is in the updates to be installed and I just delcine it and go on about my business.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I do the same. They will send out an update to WGA every now and then and will ask to install it again if you dont have it installed. Just uncheck the box and ask it to never ask again for that update and all is well. You get everything but WGA.
 
BladeVenom said:
No there are other choices like FreeBSD, but Linux is more popular. A legal copy of Windows costs as much as some people in the world make in a month. So if it weren't for piracy a lot of people couldn't afford to use Windows. Piracy rate is almost 90% in some countries.
Click to expand...

Eh...Just really justify what you're saying about them being evil. So as long as it's free it's not evil.


Violations of anti-monopoly law, and more cases of patent infringement than I can remember.
Click to expand...
Then a lot of companies are evil because plenty have been sued for patent infringement.


Both oil companies and phone companies have been broken up before. On a tech board obviously MS is going to get more attention. I think both have gotten plenty of negative attention, especially in the past. The average non techie probably complains about oil and phone companies more than they do about MS. Windows comes "free" with their pre-built computer so they don't even notice the cost.
Click to expand...

Actually, they do notice the cost. They just know it's cheaper to have it bundled. A strategy that's used in other industries. If you sign a contract with a wireless company, you get discounted prices on phone or sometimes free.
 
Steve said:
When I first read the headline “Microsoft softens response to piracy” I thought they were taking a step backwards. Well, that is until I read what the new approach would be:
Click to expand...

Have you ever see what happens to a Windows XP box when you install SP2 on a "pirated" key. Old co-worker of mine had a bootlegged copy from a "CD Shop" installed on his PC. When SP2 came around he installed it and basically reamed out the install. It removed all non MS software then locked the user out completely. God knows what information was sent back to Microsoft.

It was a comical 45mins watching the tech say "oh @#$$#@" over and over.
 
I like the simile to gun control! But i prefer the similarities to the record industry. Right now myself and many just like me say that file sharing didn't kill the record industry: 20 dollar CDs that i can make a backup of but the legality of which is in the gray area killed the record industry. In 10 years we may be saying pirated copies of windows didn't kill Microsoft: 300+$ copies of windows killed Microsoft. Just like with gun control, the intention may be good, but the bad guys will ALWAYS be able to get guns. WGA may have good intentions but my peer group will ALWAYS have pirated copies of windows. :D
I fear Microsoft may be biting off its nose to spite its face, all the mean while paving the way for another OS (LINUX) to perfect itself into a family friendly OS. Change the business model or lose the market share.
 
I can understand their activation to validate the software as being legit but, when you add a memory stick or remove one or change HDDs, etc. and it says you need to re-activate, that's just stupid.

When you activate it and then activate it again to do having to reinstall for whatever reason and the system is totally different, that's one thing but, for 1 piece of hardware change, it's just stupid and aggravating.

I have had to reactivate this copy of WinXP about 5 times now on the same computer because of hardware changes (like taking out a stick of memory to test something). What a pita.

They can have their activation but, they need to do it differently.
 
At work I make sure WGA never gets installed anywhere. Waste of my time. If someone can illuminate me as to the real end-user "Advantage" of WGA there's probably something wrong with you. Nearly all of the stations running Win2K (WGA only needed for some proggies off MS' website) and XP have been recycled twice since the licenses were purchased. I keep the #s locked in a safe and have never called anyone to "renew" anything. If they want to send the company a cheque for the time wasted... I still wouldn't.

Sievert said Microsoft plans to offer an update for Windows Genuine Advantage that will run the piracy check regularly without the computer user initiating the process.
Click to expand...
Neet. How much of an end-user's computer resources in Vista are being wasted on DRM and WGA crap from the driver level on up to the sucker interacting with this trash? I have Ubuntu on a KVM switch and there's three programs that keep me stuck to XP. That's not a lot anymore. Used to be I couldn't count the number. I wish that would change but they're complicated proggies like CAD that aren't likely to be ported.
 
Never fails to amaze me how people get IT positions hating Microsoft so much.

Resources wasted on WGA and DRM.. classic :rolleyes:
 
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