Microsoft Sees Disinterest In Vista?

[gerbiaNem]

By making Halo 2 exlusively for Vista, when in all probability it can run fine in XP, is Microsoft afraid that people won't be switching? I remember when XP came out that all of the new games were backwards compatible with Win98 for at least 3 years after the release. But now Microsoft break compatibility even before their next OS is even out?

Could this be a sign that Microsoft doesn't expect many of us to find appeal in Vista? Or are they simply trying to promote more sales? I know that Win98 could play all of the games (sometimes faster) as XP, but XP wasn't necessarily revolutionary. Is Microsoft planning anything in the new graphics processing of Vista which Halo 2 will be coded for?

What are your thoughts?

 

[pxc]

Microsoft knows that virtually every OEM system after release will ship with Vista, tens of millions each month worldwide. They are trying to spur upgrade and new system sales. Never underestimate MS's ability to make money.

 

[djnes]

Considering how craptacular Halo for PC was....I think the game will be what will generate disinterest.

 

[Sînt@x]

Considering how craptacular Halo for PC was....I think the game will be what will generate disinterest.

Damn it. I was going to say just about the same thing. I'll settle for quoting you twice.

Considering how craptacular Halo for PC was....I think the game will be what will generate disinterest.

 

[Phoenix86]

AOE3 is XP only. Why?

*crickets*

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MS IS ALREADY FUCKING 2K CUSTOMERS WITH THIS NOW.
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Read between the lines.

 

[eeyrjmr]

it could simply be that H2 will need DX10

However, the question then gets raise why cant MS write DX10 for XP?
Oh and Halo is pretty crap. UT2k7 will knock it for 6 when it comes out

 

[demortey]

it could simply be that H2 will need DX10

However, the question then gets raise why cant MS write DX10 for XP?
Oh and Halo is pretty crap. UT2k7 will knock it for 6 when it comes out

ditto...i dont understand why halo is so popular. YAY lets drive around in little carts that travel about the speed of smell and take FOREVEr to get anywhere and shoot ppl with crappy rockets, etc. UT2k7 is definately gonna be a schweet game.

 

[Skirrow]

I wont be upgrading from XP to Vista. I have no interest since XP does me fine. If the worst comes to the worst, and games start requiring vista then i'll dual boot. But until that happens i'll be sticking with XP.

As for Halo 2. I'll stick with the XBOX version. Since it only cost me £9 new. For PC it will cost about £300 (game and vista)

 

[eeyrjmr]

I wont be upgrading from XP to Vista. I have no interest since XP does me fine. If the worst comes to the worst, and games start requiring vista then i'll dual boot. But until that happens i'll be sticking with XP.

As for Halo 2. I'll stick with the XBOX version. Since it only cost me £9 new. For PC it will cost about £700 (game and vista and hardware upgrade Vista will need,let alone HALO2)

corrected

 

[Menelmarar]

WinXP is a pretty nice OS. I can see alot of people not seeing the need to switch.

Howver I am looking forward to an upgrade, it will have been 4 years on my current system this fall with only a videocard upgrade.

With as buggy as the 64bit version of windows is, the hopfully solid 64bit install of Vista + Conroe (dual core, 64bit) + 2GB + DX10/WMF 512MB video. I say bring it on

 

[masher]

MS IS ALREADY FUCKING 2K CUSTOMERS WITH THIS NOW.

I can't even begin to name how much non-MS software requires not just a specific OS...but a specific patch version of it. Windows Standard Server 2003 R2. Not SP1, or Datacente or Enterprise Server R2...but that specific version only. And run on an older version like Windows 2000 or XP? Forget about it. Why? Very often, not because it "requires" that version...but because the company didn't want to spend time and money validating their software on any other versions.

But then, to be a cool kid, you have to bash MS whenever possible, eh?

However, the question then gets raise why cant MS write DX10 for XP?

Well, XP originally shipped with DirectX 8.1, so they've already given us several free upgrades. It can't go on forever...at some point, you bundle those changes into a new version.

 

[Phoenix86]

But then, to be a cool kid, you have to bash MS whenever possible, eh?

Yeah, more verbal diarrhea from masher. C'mon is that the best you got?

While you seem to be making a point, I'm quite sure I missed where you noted how/why AOE3 requires XP. Sorry I just didn't see that in your post, perhaps my reading comprehension is bad?

Care to try again? Because only cool kids bash other's posts w/o merit.

 

[masher]

I'm quite sure I missed where you noted how/why AOE3 requires XP. Sorry I just didn't see that in your post, perhaps my reading comprehension is bad?

Yes, your reading comprehension is bad. I stated not one, but two reasons why. Try reading it again...carefully this time.

 

[Gorankar]

MS is trying to cash in.. Bill didn't get rich by pussyfooting around.. Makes MS, and Bill for that matter no different than any other corporation out there.. Wake up and smell the stink.. It has been this way since b4 your grandaddy was born.. Corporations want your money and will entice you into giving it up any way they can... Making a game that they THINK PC owners are drooling for is just one way of many they will try to do this...

Halo2, is a pretty good console game.. But when compared to PC titles of the same time period and genre it is a rather run of the mill game, neither great or particularly crappy.. IMHO anyway..

I, personaly, will not switch till sp1 comes out for vista.. I didn't switch to 98 till SE was out and I didn't switch to XP till sp1 had been out a couple of months.. I skipped ME altogether.... I see no reason to change my MO.. I just hope I don't have to skip Vista altogether like ME due to general crappieness...

 

[sandmanx]

It doesn't matter to me. I never run a MS Windows OS in a production environment until SP1 for the system has come out. I did violate this rule of mine for Win Server 2003, but it was for the web server edition only. I figure I'll be trying out Vista in a couple of years.

 

[Red Shirt]

By making Halo 2 exlusively for Vista, when in all probability it can run fine in XP, is Microsoft afraid that people won't be switching? I remember when XP came out that all of the new games were backwards compatible with Win98 for at least 3 years after the release. But now Microsoft break compatibility even before their next OS is even out?

Could this be a sign that Microsoft doesn't expect many of us to find appeal in Vista? Or are they simply trying to promote more sales? I know that Win98 could play all of the games (sometimes faster) as XP, but XP wasn't necessarily revolutionary. Is Microsoft planning anything in the new graphics processing of Vista which Halo 2 will be coded for?

Excellent post. Those were my thoughts exactly when I read that, but I have to be honest, I am very glad that MS is finally porting Halo 2 to the PC. While I agree UT is a better game, I did enjoy Halo, both for the storyline and the graphics.

 

[Phoenix86]

Yes, your reading comprehension is bad. I stated not one, but two reasons why. Try reading it again...carefully this time.

OK, George, I dun read it again.

I try as good as mah learnin' tought me, but I can count 0 (lernt to count past 10 this week!) reasons why AOE3 must have that there winders XP.

Try forming a coherent and specific reason instead of pie in the sky BS about server products or any other products not related to the example I provided of AOE3, or heck the OPs example of Halo2 and Vista.

Now with Vista there may actually be a technical reason, however 2K and XP I don't see that as a valid reason.

 

[masher]

I try as good as mah learnin' tought me, but I can count 0 (lernt to count past 10 this week!)

This reply speaks for itself.

Now with Vista there may actually be a technical reason...

So you admit you were speaking out your ass earlier, when you made the definite, unequivocal statement that, "Microsoft is fucking us"? Or were you, as usual, merely "exaggerating for effect"?

Lets examine the options. 1, There may be a valid technical reason preventing it for running on Win2K/XP. 2, it may be possible, but they don't want to spend the time and money to code, test, and validate other OS's...a practice quite standard in the industry. Either of them is possible, and neither of them implies any carnal knowledge by Microsoft.

Or option 3, the "conspiracy". First of all, MS gets the vast majority of OS monies from business sales. The only time most individuals buy a new OS is when they wind up with an OEM copy. The belief that any game could spark mass upgrade sales is incredibly naive, even for you. Lets face facts...95% of people who WOULD upgrade just for Halo are people who won't be buying that copy anyway....something that MS is certainly aware of.

Finally, I shouldn't need to point out that Microsoft's entertainment unit does well-- and its executives get raises and bonuses-- based on its OWN performance. Not some impossible-to-measure metric on how many OS upgrades they indirectly manage to sell.

But then, conspiracy theories have never needed evidence or even logic. So I'm sure this will do nothing to convince you.

 

[djnes]

Holy trolling Batman, it's SirKenin reborn

 

[Asian Dub Foundation]

i think someone hit it right on the money saying MS is afraid that many ppl will not upgrade to Vista, epsecially the enthusiats. i mean, DX10 brings a whole new gen of cards (ie more money spent on top of the OS (yes i kno u can keep DX9, but if ur are goin to, no need to upgrade, see...)), DRM needed HDCP which prompts user to get new monitors, and the OS itself will prolly not be cheap, and quite simply, for the layman with their run of the mill OEM comps, they prolly don't meet the requirement to run a full fledged Vista.

time will tell how Vista do though, i was one that was skeptical about XP at first, but now i come to love it

 

[The_Mage18]

I do not plan to upgrade to Vista and have no interest to. I was quite happy with 2K until there was a genuine need to use XP (that and it came with the laptop I bought and PC upgrade kit).

Vista will be no different than the other versions of Windows in the adoption path. There will be the early adopters, fanatics and enthusiests, then the "Keeping up with the Jones" types, then the users with no choice and finally the "kicking and screaming" croud.

XP didn't revolutionize everything but it also required a Pentium or better PC with at least 128MB of RAM to have all the features. Many home PCs didn't meet those specs and people were forced to upgrade if for nothing more than to have a PC that was more than a paper weight. Need I mention the ill-fated Intel 810 and 815 chipsets? 512MB of RAM is fine for XP but as we all know these days that won't cut it anymore.

Vista's the next step and Microsoft knows not everyone is going to jump on the bandwagon immediatly but will do so over time. They still don't have any real competition in the desktop market. Apple and Linux users back down and drop the flame posts, I have a Mini as my main PC and dual boot XP/Suse 10 on my laptop. We're not that big of a market share and MS knows it. Yeah it'll spurn hardware and PC sales especially once the "gotta have it" fever starts going around but, once again, MS knows that will be a year or two down the road. All they have to do is release it and wait.

 

[masher]

Holy trolling Batman, it's SirKenin reborn

That's what I like about you-- never a fact or even a logical argument to offer...but plenty of comic relief. If you had an organ grinder and a little monkey, you could earn a good living.

 

[Crosshairs]

And the downward spiral begins......

 

[t00thless]

once the OS comes out, or a little before, the 10 different versions will make sense to me. yes, i can read what the differences are, but right now I'm kinda scratching my head.

win98 wasn't stable for me, so i was happy to jump to xp (i never used 2k).

my xp is very stable, so i probably won't jump to vista until my next build (which will probably be about the time vista comes out). m$ is brilliant!

 

[Cheetoz]

vista's DRM stuff alone is enough for me not to upgrade.

 

[Chris_Morley]

There's a lot of Media Center advancements in Vista that have me very interested.

 

[InorganicMatter]

vista's DRM stuff alone is enough for me not to upgrade.

I don't understand why HDCP is bad. At the least it's a way to introduce an industry-standard HDTV spec. It's also an effective way to shut down pirates. You act like that's a bad thing.

 

[gerbiaNem]

1, There may be a valid technical reason preventing it for running on Win2K/XP. 2, it may be possible, but they don't want to spend the time and money to code, test, and validate other OS's...a practice quite standard in the industry.

This was my first thought when I heard the news, but then Halo 1 (which is very similar in graphics to halo 2) came out for xp. Could it be that Halo 2 was designed on a newer development environment which blends well with the WGF spec? Enough so that Microsoft decided to save the time and money by not making Halo 2 backwards compatible with XP?

The belief that any game could spark mass upgrade sales is incredibly naive, even for you. Lets face facts...95% of people who WOULD upgrade just for Halo are people who won't be buying that copy anyway....something that MS is certainly aware of.

Have you seen the video card market lately? I think you'll notice a nice correlation with hyped video game releases and video card sales. System not fast enough to run HL2/Doom3/(Insert favorite MMORPG)? Upgrade your graphics card/system. OS not up to date enough to run HL3/Doom4/(Insert favorite next-gen MMORPG)? Upgrade your OS.

Finally, I shouldn't need to point out that Microsoft's entertainment unit does well-- and its executives get raises and bonuses-- based on its OWN performance. Not some impossible-to-measure metric on how many OS upgrades they indirectly manage to sell.

Just because you can't measure something, doesn't mean you won't try.

 

[gerbiaNem]

I don't understand why HDCP is bad. At the least it's a way to introduce an industry-standard HDTV spec. It's also an effective way to shut down pirates. You act like that's a bad thing.

What happens when you try and watch a legitimate HD video file and it gets blocked? It's also an invasion into choice. Does Microsoft reserve the right to tell you what you can, and cannot watch? It's the big brother type thing going on. Would you like a chip in your car that limits your speed to whatever the speed limit is? It's a sign of mistrust, and a personal insult.

 

[InorganicMatter]

What happens when you try and watch a legitimate HD video file and it gets blocked?

If you paid for it honestly, then it won't get blocked.

It's also an invasion into choice.

Call it what you want, piracy is wrong and I don't blame them for trying to stop it. Microsoft is just trying to make sure that the blame for piracy doesn't get shifted to them, the same way it got shifted to the guy that made BitTorrent, and the same way Sony is covering their asses by blocking homebrews on the PSP. With the RIAA on the loose, you can't be too careful on what software you release.

 

[gerbiaNem]

If you paid for it honestly, then it won't get blocked.

Just like everyone is always nice, and there is no crime. It's an idealist view to think that it won't target friendly programs. Remember when cd's used to crash computers because of the drm tech built in? How about the sony rootkits, not an invasion of privacy? How about microsoft random user info being sent back?

 

[djnes]

That's what I like about you-- never a fact or even a logical argument to offer...but plenty of comic relief. If you had an organ grinder and a little monkey, you could earn a good living.

Then I could buy a bridge for you to live under, along with the other trolls.

 

[masher]

Have you seen the video card market lately? I think you'll notice a nice correlation with hyped video game releases and video card sales. System not fast enough ...Upgrade your graphics card/system...

You forgot a few major differences. High end video cards are marketed and sold primarily to gamers...but "gamers" are only a tiny percentage of OS sales. And many gamers who _would_ upgrade to Vista simply to play a game will do so _without_ buying a copy.

The vast majority of Vista sales will come from the corporate and OEM markets, not personal upgrades.

Just like everyone is always nice, and there is no crime. It's an idealist view....

Legal disks will play, period. Otherwise, their buyers turn around and take them back to Best Buy for a refund.

Does Microsoft reserve the right to tell you what you can, and cannot watch?

Oh, the melodrama! The only thing being imposed upon you is the requirement to purchase what you view....and its being imposed by the makers of HDCP, not by Microsoft.

 

[gerbiaNem]

You forgot a few major differences. High end video cards are marketed and sold primarily to gamers...but "gamers" are only a tiny percentage of OS sales. And many gamers who _would_ upgrade to Vista simply to play a game will do so _without_ buying a copy.

Doesn't matter who they are marketed to, it's upgrading because you can't play something, and I doubt Microsoft thinks that all gamers would pirate vista to play Halo 2, so point invalid.

The vast majority of Vista sales will come from the corporate and OEM markets, not personal upgrades.

But a smaller number will not, and that is still millions of dollars.

Legal disks will play, period. Otherwise, their buyers turn around and take them back to Best Buy for a refund.

If only real life were as cut and dry as this. And who wants to waste an hour and a half (30 min there/back + 30min online, for me anyway, best case scenario) going to BB to return something that should have worked.

Oh, the melodrama! The only thing being imposed upon you is the requirement to purchase what you view....and its being imposed by the makers of HDCP, not by Microsoft.

What comes next though? Telling you you can't watch porn, or you can't use voicechat because it's not through a paid service? It's just unnecessary because they could take other measures to stop piracy that don't alienate users.

 

[Nomikal]

I don't understand why HDCP is bad. At the least it's a way to introduce an industry-standard HDTV spec. It's also an effective way to shut down pirates. You act like that's a bad thing.

If the only mindframe u can think in is that of the corporation then you won't ever understand.

 

[brom42]

HDCP is not a bad thing. It should get rid of a lot of the problems we currently see with things like Sony's root kit. By intergrating HDCP into Vista, MS is giving the RIAA and others a way to protect their content that won't break Windows. Right now the RIAA protects their music by using crappy add on protection that who knows how well it has been tested. HDCP gives everyone an universal standard that if everyone uses it correctly will provide transparent and seemless copyright protection.

You also have to remember that there will always be a way around things, if you don't want to upgrade you monitor to a HDCP compliant one. You can already buy HDCP converters. There are quite a few more out there as well.

People are always going to pirate things, and the RIAA will keep on tying to protect their data. Atleast HDCP will give us an intergrated, in the open standard that they can use. This will hopefully make people like Sony less likely to try other less tested, hidden means.

 

[FSCDiablo]

HDCP is not a bad thing. It should get rid of a lot of the problems we currently see with things like Sony's root kit. By intergrating HDCP into Vista, MS is giving the RIAA and others a way to protect their content that won't break Windows. Right now the RIAA protects their music by using crappy add on protection that who knows how well it has been tested. HDCP gives everyone an universal standard that if everyone uses it correctly will provide transparent and seemless copyright protection.

You also have to remember that there will always be a way around things, if you don't want to upgrade you monitor to a HDCP compliant one. You can already buy HDCP converters. There are quite a few more out there as well.

People are always going to pirate things, and the RIAA will keep on tying to protect their data. Atleast HDCP will give us an intergrated, in the open standard that they can use. This will hopefully make people like Sony less likely to try other less tested, hidden means.

Once upon a time we strived to protect ourselves from malicious hackers. Now we strive to protect ourselves from the content providers? Sign me up!

 

[InorganicMatter]

HDCP is not a bad thing. It should get rid of a lot of the problems we currently see with things like Sony's root kit. By intergrating HDCP into Vista, MS is giving the RIAA and others a way to protect their content that won't break Windows. Right now the RIAA protects their music by using crappy add on protection that who knows how well it has been tested. HDCP gives everyone an universal standard that if everyone uses it correctly will provide transparent and seemless copyright protection.

You also have to remember that there will always be a way around things, if you don't want to upgrade you monitor to a HDCP compliant one. You can already buy HDCP converters. There are quite a few more out there as well.

People are always going to pirate things, and the RIAA will keep on tying to protect their data. Atleast HDCP will give us an intergrated, in the open standard that they can use. This will hopefully make people like Sony less likely to try other less tested, hidden means.

Agreed 110%. I would much rather have HDCP and DRM stuff built into the OS as a standardized technology than have to live with the crappy hack jobs that the industry is trying to force on us now. Then again, I don't care about DRM crap since it won't affect me since I acquire all my stuff the honest way.

 

[HHunt]

Agreed 110%. I would much rather have HDCP and DRM stuff built into the OS as a standardized technology than have to live with the crappy hack jobs that the industry is trying to force on us now. Then again, I don't care about DRM crap since it won't affect me since I acquire all my stuff the honest way.

As long as there is an easy, open-source way to play the content in !windows, I can live with it. Given that current law around here allows consumers to break all forms of content protection in order to use something they've paid for, including making copies, I'm sure something will come up.
Too bad for the americans, though. You're basically screwed.

 

[masher]

who wants to waste an hour and a half (30 min there/back + 30min online, for me anyway, best case scenario) going to BB to return something that should have worked.

It won't happen...because a nonworking disk costs the manufacturer and retailer more than it costs you. Don't panic-- you'll be able to play and watch legal disks to your hearts content.

What comes next though? Telling you you can't watch porn...

Even though the mere thought of such a grim outcome may be causing you to hyperventilate, it's still a silly statement. DRM has nothing to do with censorship, its concerned with protection of property rights. So don't worry, they won't be taking your porn away.

It's just unnecessary because they could take other measures to stop piracy that don't alienate users.

Think of one that actually works and become rich overnight. Post the results here, k?