Microsoft Says “Avoid the Apple Tax”

H

HardOCP News

[H] News
Joined
Dec 31, 1969
Messages
0
It’s tax time and Microsoft is singing the “Apple Tax” song again but this time they have given their pitch a little 1040 twist.

Microsoft sponsored a new whitepaper (PDF) from Roger Kay of Endpoint Technologies Associates which takes a look at the tax from a tech analyst’s viewpoint. His paper shows the “Apple Tax” is the combination of what people pay up front when purchasing a Mac and what people pay over the life of their computer – the hidden tax.
Click to expand...
 
Hah microsoft is going for the jugular vein with this, apple deserves it for all their years of pc bashing.
 
most of it is true however if you look closely... they don't charge pc users for microsoft office.... which is ironic becuase 0 pcs actually have a working version of office that lasts more than a few months...

a free, hardly functioning office 2007 function thats usually expired when i'm fixing someone's pc is not 100% free. its kind of an annoying gimmic.
 
forcefed said:
Hah microsoft is going for the jugular vein with this, apple deserves it for all their years of pc bashing.
Click to expand...

I'm wondering why MS never did this back during the G4/G5 days. I'm guessing it's only fair now that everyone uses the same components. Sigh, I'll never miss seeing the RDF cartoons about the PMac G5 lol.
 
microsoft is often missing a common point:

i have yet to meat a mac laptop owner that bought their own mac. never, not once.

i've only met mac owners who had parents who bought it for them. out of the 20 college students (all IT nerds) i've met that had macs... their parents bought it for them.

these kids are stereotypes.... but i've yet to meet someone who saves up for a mac and buys one on their own.

pcs kids are like this:
mom buy me a mac, buy me a pc....
1. mom buys them a shitty pc
2. kid learns to fuck with the pc and modify it
3. kid builds his own pc for 600$ that saves him 2000$ towards beer in college that he would of bought a mac with. and yet it plays more games than the 2600$ mac.
 
jroe52 said:
most of it is true however if you look closely... they don't charge pc users for microsoft office.... which is ironic becuase 0 pcs actually have a working version of office that lasts more than a few months...

a free, hardly functioning office 2007 function thats usually expired when i'm fixing someone's pc is not 100% free. its kind of an annoying gimmic.
Click to expand...

Almost all off-the-shelf computers come with a free trial version of Office 2007, or a basic version of Microsoft Works. So of course they're going to expire unless you buy it. It's been like that for quite some time now.
 
i find this 'study' lulzer because i've also heard of the "microtax" (microsoft tax) of OS and Office and biz apps.
 
The irony is that the "MS Tax" is not included in calculations most of the time...for various reasons.
 
jroe52 said:
microsoft is often missing a common point:

i have yet to meat a mac laptop owner that bought their own mac. never, not once.

i've only met mac owners who had parents who bought it for them. out of the 20 college students (all IT nerds) i've met that had macs... their parents bought it for them.

these kids are stereotypes.... but i've yet to meet someone who saves up for a mac and buys one on their own.

pcs kids are like this:
mom buy me a mac, buy me a pc....
1. mom buys them a shitty pc
2. kid learns to fuck with the pc and modify it
3. kid builds his own pc for 600$ that saves him 2000$ towards beer in college that he would of bought a mac with. and yet it plays more games than the 2600$ mac.
Click to expand...

So, you're talking about kids. I know lots of adults who've bought macs, because they have an income. But, the majority of actual macs that I see are in fact purchased by businesses for their users, mostly creative (music, video and graphic design), and there's a big, big upswing in developer usage because of the toolsets and unix platform. It's really an amazing platform.

Similiar situation for iPhone actually; it's very very popular among people interested in rich UIs, software development, to stay connected with the best examples of design.
 
I found it funny that the author of the study used last gen Apple hardware against current PC hardware in this study, and didn't bother to match specs, or account for differences in cpu or chipset, AND added options to the Apple PC just to make it more expensive; and all that while leaving out things that PC buyers routinely purchase

Microsoft: "Here's a fat wad of cash, write something that shows that Apple overcharges"
Author: "Hmm, cash.. No need for proper research or journalistic integrity here; let's get creative!"
 
I own both PCs and Macs, and it always angers me when either side tries to compare their favorite machine by removing bits that inconveniently make their side less useful or weak. In this case with Microsoft they first off imply that Office and Quicken are free for PC, which is of course crap and untrue. Secondly they act like Dell 3 year support is equal to applecare, when in one case you can go to a local apple store and have it looked at quickly, whereas Dell would require you to send it in (unless you have a business site visit license)--so in one case your cost might be weeks worth of time. Also, I would love to see an item that shows resell value of the equipment after the 3 years is up. Funny on that, I suspect that the Dell would be like 0 and the Apple stuff would be about equal in resell value to any "savings" they list for the PC side.

Both groups have been very guilty of unbalanced comparisons, I just can't stand when they really just skew things in a really obvious way.
 
They both act like they don't charge 5x what they should for the shit they sell. They'd be out of biz in an anarcho-capitalist economy. Too bad people have such an aversion to a system that would make life nearly perfect for every individual. Never can figure out why people don't like superior products and services at lower prices, when microsoft and apple can provide shitty products at high prices. Never will understand that, not until the day I die. I could live until I'm 105 [Right now, I don't know that I'll want to live for more than few more years from now, I'd be surprised if complete corruption can be completely healed.], and I'll never understand why people have always loved socialism that has allowed terrorist organizations like MS and Apple to exist.

As for the Apple Tax specifically, yes it exists; but does the MicoTax not exist too?

If you think about the x360 alone, there could be the following taxes that you may have to pay until you give up on the piece of shit. at least one play n charge kit, [you'll have to buy probably 2 or more during the x360 generation if you're a fan of that pile of shit; the manual even said the charge weakens over time], idiots who got suckered into buying the HD-DVD USB player, MS Live subscription + new additional costs to play online (Sony and not even Nintendo charge nearly as much as MS does to play online), a stand-alone blu-ray player if you like movies a lot and chose to get an x360 over a ps3, have to buy an hdmi model, if you originally bought one without HDMI, and a few other things. A big one slipped my mind.

Then, gas costs, packaging, extended warranties every time you take one back to the store for a new one, health insurance co-pay, car insurance premiums going up, (get into an accident, and possibly even injured when taking your 21st x360 back to your local BBuy, gamestop wherever, or to be shipped back to ms). Then, those costs work both ways for clerks, FedEx, USPS, UPS truck space and drivers. Even the 1st xbox carried a possible "tax" with the fires the ac power cords could cause.

Suppose it burned those peoples' carpets when it caught on fire? It could've burned even more peoples' carpets. Think about the wait people may have had, while waiting for a replacement power cord.

Paying MS mad more money for products so they can increase piracy, through all of these harmful pro-piracy measures.

Buying vista when 7 isn't as slow/choppy as running xp would be if we were using Pentium IIs @ 300 MHz.

Multiple versions of vista, and upgrading requires paying more than if you were to originally buy the higher-end version the first time.

Ridiculously high-prices for MS word, that doesn't or should take <8% as much R&D costs.

Tax-payer expense for every public and most private education systems to get ms products, when they had a vision that there "would be win95 on every desktop" or some dumb shit like that, and they could afford to give it away for free to every school in the damn world, while still cutting their prices by one-half for everyone else.

Including lower-end versions with system software packages.

I think that's enough to prove that microsoft is only still around (or charges too much for pile of shit products) because we've always live under socialism.

To tell you the honest truth microsoft and apple can both go to hell for all eternity.

There is something seriously wrong with both Ballmer and Steve Jobs.

Mainly, they think their "special" standards produce the greatest products technologically possible; in reality their standards are pure shit, and shitty standards produce shitty products and services.

I'm kind of going to start looking into a linux-based o/s, sometime in the next few years; after all, if Sony uses it, then it's probably better than anything the P.O.S. giants are capable of producing.

Not saying Sony is the best company in the world, but the PS2 was just as good as the 1st Xbox in terms of tech quality (regardless of far less detailed textures, the PS2 was generally capable of better graphics, in the hands of the right programmers), although MS had the edge in reliability in the previous generation. This generation sony beats the hell out of ms in both reliability and tech quality. Sure, the X360 is easier to program for, but guess what--microsoft makes money off that, while sony was willing to allow for a potentially better experience at their own loss. The Japanese are some nice people, to let American companies out-profit them.
 
JediFonger said:
i find this 'study' lulzer because i've also heard of the "microtax" (microsoft tax) of OS and Office and biz apps.
Click to expand...

You can't compare business apps with the rest of this. That's a whole different market that the commercials and this Apple Tax thing aren't aimed at.

If you want to take out the cost of Office 2007 Student edition it's $100. Office 2008 for Macs is $100. OpenOffice is free for both. So in the long run it probably shouldn't be mentioned at all. ;)
 
I do think that Apple hardware/software/OS is overrated, overhyped, and overpriced

BUT DID ANYBODY READ THE COST ON THE VIDEO CARDS
Apple Radeon 4870 $350
Dell Radeon 4870 $260

It's the EXACT SAME FREAKIN HARDWARE. Only the drivers are different. And you can download those for free. And who the Heck pays $260 for a Radeon 4870 any more? If you pay more than $150 I have a "slightly used" 200K mile car I want to sell you.
 
BTW: I generally don't like Mac people because of their superiority complex. They are evangelical about it, and preach it to your face. That makes them self rightous, and I can't stand self rightous people shoving their views in my face. I like to think for myself.

And that is not just opinion. There was a valid scientific study reflecting those people who own macs and their attitudes in general. They like to think they are "special"

More like "short bus special"
 
DigitalGriffin said:
I do think that Apple hardware/software/OS is overrated, overhyped, and overpriced

BUT DID ANYBODY READ THE COST ON THE VIDEO CARDS
Apple Radeon 4870 $350
Dell Radeon 4870 $260

It's the EXACT SAME FREAKIN HARDWARE. Only the drivers are different. And you can download those for free. And who the Heck pays $260 for a Radeon 4870 any more? If you pay more than $150 I have a "slightly used" 200K mile car I want to sell you.
Click to expand...

Thus why home built PC's reign supreme when it comes to cost. ;)
 
This is just one of 3 seperate studies I found all confirming the same thing:

http://media.www.llamaledger.com/me....As.More.Liberal.Than.Pc.Owners-3274330.shtml

"(U-WIRE) — In 1997, Macintosh users were encouraged to "think different," in television advertisements. But in 2008 they don't just think differently, but potentially believe they are better than PC users.
In an online survey of 7,500 computer users conducted by Mindset Media, those with Apple computers believed they are more open-minded, precise and socially and politically liberal than the general population.

The study found that "these purchasers are less modest and more assured of their own superiority than the population at large."

Mindset Media, the company responsible for the survey, is an online advertising website that designs personalized websites and develops multimedia presentations.

The survey consisted of a series of questions both Mac and PC users answered. The results were compared and revealed that Mac users see themselves with a small superiority complex -- more so than PC users."​
Click to expand...
 
jroe52 said:
most of it is true however if you look closely... they don't charge pc users for microsoft office.... which is ironic becuase 0 pcs actually have a working version of office that lasts more than a few months...

a free, hardly functioning office 2007 function thats usually expired when i'm fixing someone's pc is not 100% free. its kind of an annoying gimmic.
Click to expand...

Azhar said:
Almost all off-the-shelf computers come with a free trial version of Office 2007, or a basic version of Microsoft Works. So of course they're going to expire unless you buy it. It's been like that for quite some time now.
Click to expand...

Yup, although even the ones that come with a trial of Office still normally come with Works I believe. Does the Mac come with any similar software bundle?

harknell said:
I own both PCs and Macs, and it always angers me when either side tries to compare their favorite machine by removing bits that inconveniently make their side less useful or weak. In this case with Microsoft they first off imply that Office and Quicken are free for PC, which is of course crap and untrue. Secondly they act like Dell 3 year support is equal to applecare, when in one case you can go to a local apple store and have it looked at quickly, whereas Dell would require you to send it in (unless you have a business site visit license)--so in one case your cost might be weeks worth of time. Also, I would love to see an item that shows resell value of the equipment after the 3 years is up. Funny on that, I suspect that the Dell would be like 0 and the Apple stuff would be about equal in resell value to any "savings" they list for the PC side.

Both groups have been very guilty of unbalanced comparisons, I just can't stand when they really just skew things in a really obvious way.
Click to expand...

Actually they are looking at what you would recieve on the Dell not what comes with Windows. In which case yes Quicken probably would be free. Most machines new machines I have seen recently come with some free personal version of Quicken and have for years. If they don't have Quicken then they come with Money. Either way they come with some type of similar functioning software for "free". Also you can get dell support onsite even if it isn't for a business, at the same time not everyone has an apple store near them and will have to send Apple hardware in also. So that is going to differ also.

DigitalGriffin said:
I do think that Apple hardware/software/OS is overrated, overhyped, and overpriced

BUT DID ANYBODY READ THE COST ON THE VIDEO CARDS
Apple Radeon 4870 $350
Dell Radeon 4870 $260

It's the EXACT SAME FREAKIN HARDWARE. Only the drivers are different. And you can download those for free. And who the Heck pays $260 for a Radeon 4870 any more? If you pay more than $150 I have a "slightly used" 200K mile car I want to sell you.
Click to expand...

That is what the cost of the cards are on those sites. That is what they were looking at, not what is the cheapest way to get the video cards. Most average users would think they need to buy from apple for their apple computer, or from Dell for their dell computer.
 
jroe52 said:
most of it is true however if you look closely... they don't charge pc users for microsoft office.... which is ironic becuase 0 pcs actually have a working version of office that lasts more than a few months...

a free, hardly functioning office 2007 function thats usually expired when i'm fixing someone's pc is not 100% free. its kind of an annoying gimmic.
Click to expand...

Its called a trial version. You can pay for it or not. Your choice.

Azhar said:
Almost all off-the-shelf computers come with a free trial version of Office 2007, or a basic version of Microsoft Works. So of course they're going to expire unless you buy it. It's been like that for quite some time now.
Click to expand...

Yes it has.

JediFonger said:
i find this 'study' lulzer because i've also heard of the "microtax" (microsoft tax) of OS and Office and biz apps.
Click to expand...

That has nothing to do with the cost of the computer itself. The OEM versions of the Windows OS that comes with the machines aren't really that much more expensive than Mac OS. As for the price of their business applications, well those are separate things you buy. There are alternatives to using Microsoft Office, so I don't buy the "Microsoft Tax" BS.
 
DigitalGriffin said:
I do think that Apple hardware/software/OS is overrated, overhyped, and overpriced

BUT DID ANYBODY READ THE COST ON THE VIDEO CARDS
Apple Radeon 4870 $350
Dell Radeon 4870 $260

It's the EXACT SAME FREAKIN HARDWARE. Only the drivers are different. And you can download those for free. And who the Heck pays $260 for a Radeon 4870 any more? If you pay more than $150 I have a "slightly used" 200K mile car I want to sell you.
Click to expand...


I thought that this was an error, but at Apple, they REALLY DO charge 90$ more for the same video card!!!

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB999ZM/A

More "apple tax" for ya, since everyone knows there is NOTHING WHAT SO EVER different about this video card over whatever anyone buys at Newegg for 150 less, or Dell for 90 less. Almost all ATI/AMD cards are made by Sapphire anyways. Other company's just slap there lable on them. There is NO WAY some Apple fanboy can convince me that it has superior quality to justify the extra price.
 
DigitalGriffin said:
BTW: I generally don't like Mac people because of their superiority complex. They are evangelical about it, and preach it to your face. That makes them self rightous, and I can't stand self rightous people shoving their views in my face. I like to think for myself.

And that is not just opinion. There was a valid scientific study reflecting those people who own macs and their attitudes in general. They like to think they are "special"

More like "short bus special"
Click to expand...


Most of the software I use is either available on both OS or Windows only. But they say I can use emulation or dual boot for my Windows software. Doesnt that suggest a Windows system to start with?

Not only that, but why pay top dollar for outdated (lowend) hardware?

Remember, Apple computers are nothing more than glorified Fisher-Price activity centers for adults.
 
Dan_D said:
Its called a trial version. You can pay for it or not. Your choice.
Click to expand...

Macs used to come with a trail version of office too. Now I believe they come with a trial version of iWork, which costs $80.

Also, the iLife 09 'one time fee' is retarded, since it comes with any new computer anyways.

This whole thing is pointless, everyone already knows macs are more expensive. Microsoft should be trying to point out what you can do with windows that people don't already know about.
 
Wait! I think I found it!

A1743223JPG.png


Dell's $250 card
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Games/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&cs=19&sku=A1743223

MB999.jpg


Apples $350 card!
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB999ZM/A

Its that black plastic mount! THATS why it cost's so much! Thats the added quality for Max owners!
 
dark4181 said:
I found it funny that the author of the study used last gen Apple hardware against current PC hardware in this study, and didn't bother to match specs, or account for differences in cpu or chipset, AND added options to the Apple PC just to make it more expensive; and all that while leaving out things that PC buyers routinely purchase

Microsoft: "Here's a fat wad of cash, write something that shows that Apple overcharges"
Author: "Hmm, cash.. No need for proper research or journalistic integrity here; let's get creative!"
Click to expand...

Apple has no room for integrity when they're Mac vs. PC benches have been shrouded with RDF b.s. since the G4 days. Remember their "Fastest Personal Computer" crock? Seriously, Apple dishes it out, but can't take a counter-jab. It's just sad.

Its that black plastic mount! THATS why it cost's so much! Thats the added quality for Max owners!
Click to expand...

Haha what's a Max owner?
 
Makenxero said:
Actually, the Apple card also has a mini display port, so you also to get pay for an adapter too. :D
Click to expand...

Being stuck with a proprietary display connector that only forces you to buy a MORE expensive monitor is not added quality. Does Mac port have ANY benifit over DVI? More Mac Tax.
 
My household is split right down the middle, and I use both for different purposes and have no problems with either.

But I have to say the "study" is highly flawed. I mean they didn't even compare like machines. Then adding the extra apps on only the Apple side... adding MobileMe... which essentially is only useful to keep mail and contacts in sync with an iPhone... then taking the highest family price of that service to boot? C'mon...

The fact is that an Apple tax does exist, so they didn't have to essentially lie to make their point. But in doing so it's just silly. Adding Office, Quicken, "other software", one to one care, MobileMe... when you don't add anything like that on the other side is pretty disingenuous.
 
I can understand the applicable businesses that use macs, but for personal use at this point, its up to you if its worth paying that much more for the interface and/or the exterior looks of it.

That MS commercial with that girl buying the laptop at bestbuy is actually a great example though, 1000 gets you bottom of the line mac, and even at worst buy she found two $700 17inchers that were probably better spec'd which is truly sad.
 
re: Office

It seems that the author may have configured his HP WITH office, as its an add-on in the HP configure screen for $120. Since the D5100T is no longer an option, I cant tell fore sure if the 1049 price includes Office. You CAN config an Inspiron 15 with Office for under 699.
 
brentsg said:
[snip..]
But I have to say the "study" is highly flawed. I mean they didn't even compare like machines.
Click to expand...

HP d5200t

MacPro

Go nutz configuring them, and see the difference in price/performance.

note: This ad campaign was obviously started 3-6months ago, so while prices may vary, the PC-equivalent hardware has already been updated, while the Mac-equivalent still remains, nearly, unchanged.

brentsg said:
[snip..] Then adding the extra apps on only the Apple side... adding MobileMe... which essentially is only useful to keep mail and contacts in sync with an iPhone... then taking the highest family price of that service to boot? C'mon...

The fact is that an Apple tax does exist, so they didn't have to essentially lie to make their point. But in doing so it's just silly. Adding Office, Quicken, "other software", one to one care, MobileMe... when you don't add anything like that on the other side is pretty disingenuous.
Click to expand...

I have a feeling some of what Microsoft is displaying, with regards to software/services, is a tie-in with the direction Microsoft is pushing towards with Windows Live Essentials. Paul Thurott Super Site for Windows just put up an article with regards to Live "Essential" products, and he also bloggd about this tax "haven"-- so, the timing is just too coincidental. And if that's the case, then the moibleMe jab, must mean they're stagging for a myPhone-related campaign.

Just conjecture, but it's not stretching it much.
 
Gibbage said:
Being stuck with a proprietary display connector that only forces you to buy a MORE expensive monitor is not added quality. Does Mac port have ANY benifit over DVI? More Mac Tax.
Click to expand...
I think the point is that this is a slightly different card. I don't know who's manufacturing it for Apple, but if they're moving very few of them, I'm guessing they're going to charge Apple a highly-exaggerated price. Ergo, Apple wouldn't likely have much of a choice to charge end-users more for what is almost an identical card.

DeathFromBelow said:
This is great. Microsoft finally grew some balls.
Click to expand...
Seems almost like they're scared: they're getting very defensive. I wonder what about? It's not like Apple's really gaining market share according to the most recent reports, so what gives?
 
dot_Zen said:
Go nutz configuring them, and see the difference in price/performance.

note: This ad campaign was obviously started 3-6months ago, so while prices may vary, the PC-equivalent hardware has already been updated, while the Mac-equivalent still remains, nearly, unchanged.

Just conjecture, but it's not stretching it much.
Click to expand...

The first thing that I see is that if I try to configure TODAY using this HP and the Mac Pro I'm comparing an i7 Xenon based Mac Pro against a Core2 based HP. If I were honestly shopping for preconfig systems with HP and that was my model, I would be considering an iMac on the Apple side. Again, I'm typing this on my Vista64 based i7 machine...

And again, MobileMe? That accounts for like $750 and if I didn't use it to keep my iPhone in sync with my gear I wouldn't have it... And BTW I'm using MobileMe on my Windows PCs. One on one care gives the ability to schedule 1:1 hands-on training in an Apple Store. That's what it is.... why was this added? The whole thing is silly.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top