Microsoft Releases “Mojave Experiment” Videos

Joe Average said:
No real suprises in the little video snippets I suppose. Ignorance runs rampant even in spite of Microsoft's marketing machine. Word of mouth from idiots is still idiotic word of mouth. :)

I got a laugh from the guy asking "Why isn't it faster?" He's probably got an old PC at home and simply hasn't got a clue...
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He actually said "Why is it faster?" As in, "I've heard Vista is slow, if Mojave really is Vista, why is it running faster than Vista?" I'm guessing he was the Linux user ;)
 
I've been using Vista on my work laptop for over a year now:
- Half as snappy on twice as long on boot than my old, similiar fast desktop pc
- The program launcher/start thing ticks me off!!!

I have to do 4 clicks to run a basic program. And I can't get back to the old style without loosing the actually useful features. Went over to use a "quick launch" folder on the taskbar which behaves like the old start button and don't use the vista launcher anymore besides for some obscure and seldom used programs.

They definitely need to fix this with the next version.

SuperFetch is kinda nice but it takes "forever" from getting to the desktop till everything is loaded and in place.

But on a side note: It wasn't before having a [email protected] + 2GB DDR +SATA2 Disk that I felt my windows XP box was as snappy as my old Athlon 900 Mhz+Raid0 on windows 98.

So I guess the performance complaints will go away once we all got 4 cores@4 ghz with 8 GB Ram ;-)

About Aero: sad the just used it for "nice looks" instead for added productivity. And it sucks at least 15 minutes of battery use on my laptop ;-)

The last actually useful upgrade in Windows GUI to me was the Windows95 start button, but with the vista system it's back to win 3.11 program manager speed. That and maybe "tabs". But that's all still concepts worked out 50 years ago.
 
AliP said:
What are the actual pros of vista over XP?
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Paint has a lot more undo's now.

Seriously though, I've only been using Vista Ultimate x64 SP1 for 2 days now and dont come across as many of these UAC permission boxes as I was expecting. I guess SP1 made a lot of it go away.

I have it running on an E6700 C2D with 2gigs of ram and an 8800GTX. So far the performance of Grid and COD4 are fantastic (@ 1920x1200).
 
This Test is not really useful and quite emberessing to say the least. Using a fresh new copy of Windows VISTA for 10 minutes and using a "used" copy of VISTA for a week is a huge difference. Also, using the VISTA OS for a week is terrible, esp. developing software for it!
 
Dell, Gateway, Acer laptop. Ugh. This is HardOCP.com, right ?

I build my own and after screwing up enough partitions trying to maintain a dual boot setup while all around me hard drives and partitioning software was failing, I finally gave up on it and went to Vista exclusively.

Smart move. Want to know a feature that is better on Vista ? Sleep. Actually works. And fast. I haven't even tried using a memory stick for Readyboost.

I like it much better than XP. Yeah, you need the hardware to run it, but really, if you can afford the $400 price tag on Vista Ultimate, that shouldn't be an issue.
 
deadrody said:
Dell, Gateway, Acer laptop. Ugh. This is HardOCP.com, right ?

I build my own and after screwing up enough partitions trying to maintain a dual boot setup while all around me hard drives and partitioning software was failing, I finally gave up on it and went to Vista exclusively.

Smart move. Want to know a feature that is better on Vista ? Sleep. Actually works. And fast. I haven't even tried using a memory stick for Readyboost.

I like it much better than XP. Yeah, you need the hardware to run it, but really, if you can afford the $400 price tag on Vista Ultimate, that shouldn't be an issue.
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Funny you mention this, setting the timer flags in VISTA for the S3 mode is horrible. I develop automation software for Europes largest PC maker ( we ship about 16000 pc's a day) and VISTA is the most terrible piece of Software when it comes to putting machines into sleep mode and actually waking up from it! Consider yourself lucky!
 
some of the peeps here got a free copy and "like vista" - or it came with their new computer.

I'd use it if it was free. Since it isn't, and I never heard of a reason to upgrade that made $300 make sense, I don't use it.
 
GalacticCmdr said:
Of course the entire experiment hangs on the thread of credibility. How credible do you rate that these people are not just plants - or that they were pre-disposed to answering one way and then reversing themselves. Just as the interviewer prompted. The entire hidden camera angle plays heavily that these are just "real" people that we brought in.
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While i wouldnt TRUST microsoft as far as i can throw them... i know Vista > XP so.. this rings true....

But the thing is when i first tried Vista (day it was released) i hated it.. it crashed it was this it was that.. total shite... and i became dedicated anti-vista.... but i decided to give it another shot the day SP1 was released... and WOW (just like ms said)
 
I need to record a video of my system booting vista, to show how fast it boots, and how fast programs load

Keep in mind i'm using a Core2 Q6600 @ 3.4 (425FSB, 4GB of 1066 DDR2, the OS is on a SATA2 32MB Cache Seagate 500GB on a 60GB boot partition)

Superfetch really shines, though, with 4+ GB of ram. When I had 2GB, the system was a bit slower on startup, but ever since I upgraded to 2x2GB Mushkin sticks, this system is really fast.
 
All the VISTA lovers should look at the big picture.
Why so many ppl(including myself) find that vista sucks?
Are flaming debates will make someone to change his opinion?
Why when MS releases new OS there is such controversy, but when Apple or Open Source community releases a new OS everyone loves it?
I hate VISTA not because of the comparison with XP, VISTA was a total fail to meet my expectations as a new OS which was developed for 5 years!
 
For 3.2GHz quad core with 8GB RAM, Vista 64Bit FTW and I got the OS for free.

For my older AMD X2 machine, I won't spend the money to upgrade to Vista because it is not worth the money to replace the good old WinXP. Vista is good if it is free but I still don't think that it is worth the money if you already have a legit WinXP copy.
 
I'd like Microsoft to show these demos to people who actually know what they're talking about and tape their reactions.

It's just MS countering FUD with more FUD. None of the people actually used the OS themselves. They were shown smoke and mirror demos on how to start Calculator, Parental Controls, image editing, and vague references to "faster". The site says 140 people were used in this study, but only about 15 are shown. I'm guessing they chose to not use the videos of the people that had a clue.
 
HardDrugsUser said:
All the VISTA lovers should look at the big picture.
Why so many ppl(including myself) find that vista sucks?
Are flaming debates will make someone to change his opinion?
Why when MS releases new OS there is such controversy, but when Apple or Open Source community releases a new OS everyone loves it?
I hate VISTA not because of the comparison with XP, VISTA was a total fail to meet my expectations as a new OS which was developed for 5 years!
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Someone *finally* hits the nail on the head.

This isn't about kool-aid drinking from Apple/Linux or Microsoft camps.

It's that this is what we got after waiting more than *5* years of development?! Not sure if you recall or not, but as a refresher, we witnessed feature after feature that was supposed to make Vista what it was dropped because they couldn't get it working. Period. What we ended up with was a prettier XP with some under the hood security features (that I agree were great additions), but when the smoke cleared, we were simply paying for a *very overpriced* rehash of what we already had, albeit more secure. IMO, it just wasn't enough of an upgrade to justify 5+ years of dev and the outrageous sticker price.

To defend it, like many of you are, is truly the other side of the spectrum of kool-aid drinking you accuse Linux and Apple fans of doing.

Vista needed to be more, and instead, like fools, Microsoft got you to pay FULL PRICE (and I don't care if you got it from your company, a vendor, or whatever, the point is SOMEONE paid for it), for a stripped down point release and then they got you to like it -- and even publicly defend it like lemmings.

Vista sucks, not because it doesn't work fine...but because it was supposed to be 300X better than it was before they removed all the fantastic features that was supposed to make it so. For 60$, this would be an exceptional OS. For 199+$, it's trash. Period.

Oh, and those "commercials" are beyond dumb. The fact that any of you admit liking them shows you are just drinking the kool aid of a different company.

Not that that's a bad thing...if you like the taste, enjoy it.

Just shut up about it.
 
I've been using Vista Ultimate on my main rig over XP for a year now. I find whenever I jump back to my laptop with XP, the experience just kind of falls short. Vista is just easier to use now and quite pleasing to the eye. Everyone that I've seen using vista on modern rigs tend to agree. Unfortunately if you are using a setup from a few years ago, pre vista, the experience isn't as good as speed wise it seems to take ages.
 
(One of the videos: Vista User)
"type calc and you're using the calculator, its right there"
(Windows 95 User)
"Windows+R type calc and you're using the calculator, its right there"

And the one negative video they chose "We can't please everyone", of course was shown the promotional video, not able to use the acutal OS and says:
"Ya but why is it faster" but what did they cut off?
Perhaps:
"....than Vista is on my machine?"
Answer: Because you're watching a promotional video.
It's the same "not actual gameplay" super awesome game trailer OMG!!

This is a brilliant, brilliant marketing campaign, and that is what you get from one of the best firms in marketing. But nothing more. This doesn't prove anything, it's marketing fluff disguised as a scientific survey.

Steve please don't ever build a house out of this "cement".
 
hPOD said:
It's that this is what we got after waiting more than *5* years of development?! Not sure if you recall or not, but as a refresher, we witnessed feature after feature that was supposed to make Vista what it was dropped because they couldn't get it working. Period. What we ended up with was a prettier XP with some under the hood security features (that I agree were great additions), but when the smoke cleared, we were simply paying for a *very overpriced* rehash of what we already had, albeit more secure. IMO, it just wasn't enough of an upgrade to justify 5+ years of dev and the outrageous sticker price.
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The new DRM works great though, http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/managin...-vista-so-much-for-recording-television-24737

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Windows_Vista
 
Longinus00 said:
So according to engadget, the participants didn't actually use "Mojave" and instead were shown a 10 minute presentation on it.



http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/29/mojave-experiment-goes-live-doesnt-fail-to-annoy/
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Based on this, shouldn't [H] post a little update thingy under the story, or does is does a persuasive promotional video pass as conclusinve cement over at [H]. For a site that is so accustomed to defending it's unorthodox testing criteria, to get behind a marketing campaign like this would really corrode you credibility.

Sure you guys like Vista, but are these your numbers to prove it?
 
HardDrugsUser said:
All the VISTA lovers should look at the big picture.
Why so many ppl(including myself) find that vista sucks?
Are flaming debates will make someone to change his opinion?
Why when MS releases new OS there is such controversy, but when Apple or Open Source community releases a new OS everyone loves it?
I hate VISTA not because of the comparison with XP, VISTA was a total fail to meet my expectations as a new OS which was developed for 5 years!
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This is nothing new, the same thing was said between windows 3.1 and 95, 95 and 98 and 2000 to XP. Even Ed Bott pointed it out. http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=382&tag=rbxccnbzd1 I'll even quote some of them.

On Windows 2000:

2001: “IT departments should take advantage of license downgrade provisions and continue to press forward with Windows 2000 deployments until the installed hardware base catches up with XP.”

2007: “Windows 2000 doesn’t count since it was never a mainstream product.”

On why your old OS was better:

2001: “Windows XP increasingly ate the dust of Windows 2000 as load ramped up, regardless of machine specs or Office version.”

2007: “[E]xhaustive testing confirms that Windows Vista is at least twice as slow as Windows XP when running on the same hardware.”

On hardware:

2001: “ntil 2GHz desktop PCs become commonplace, we have a hard time recommending widespread adoption of Windows XP at all.”

2007: “Windows XP SP3 … absolutely screams on today’s high-end, multi-core desktops.”

On “bloated” new features:

2001: “Shops lured by XP features should weigh their options carefully. In many cases, these features may not be compelling enough to justify saddling your end-users with a slower OS.”

2007: “Vista, which is basically Windows XP with more “stuff” heaped on top, and you begin to see why so many users are balking at the upgrade message. There’s simply not enough “meat” to justify the pain involved.”
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Vista is just windows 95 again, and windows 7 will be windows 98 with most of the issues people have resolved.
 
QuakerOatz said:
Based on this, shouldn't [H] post a little update thingy under the story, or does is does a persuasive promotional video pass as conclusinve cement over at [H]. For a site that is so accustomed to defending it's unorthodox testing criteria, to get behind a marketing campaign like this would really corrode you credibility.
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Not sure what you are smoking but we simply pointed out that Microsoft has finally started to defend itself against the barrage of negative publicity. That "corrodes our credibility?" :rolleyes:

Are you missing the whole point that people are laughing at?

People that were running around on a daily basis spreading "Vista sucks" to anyone that will listen (when they have never used the OS) are now swayed by a promotional video into "loving" Vista. That is comedy gold.

I suppose conclusive cement is "Hi, I'm a Mac....and I'm a PC" :rolleyes:
 
Well IMO I think one of the biggest problems today is that people don't really take the time to learn Vista over the older OS's. I see several posts in this thread where people are complaining about certain things in Vista and they seem totally valid, while at the same time could be easily remedied by learning Vista. Everything in Vista can be setup to look/work like XP from my experience as well, although I don't know why you would do that. I don't think Vista is revolutionary but rather evolutionary with a learning curve. People like XP because they know it, and know how to use it. Of course you will be able to do things faster in XP since you have used that OS for four or five years. Also with the price of ram, you can get a 4 gig kit for under $50 typically which will help Vista out significantly. But then there are people who are going to say, "why do I have to get 4 gig to run the stuff I want when I can use XP and run it fine on =< 2 gig right now". This is a valid point, but then again with <$50 ram kits, why not.
I am not going to argue with anyone on this, because like the one poster said, if someone doesn't like Vista right now, whether warranted or not, a simple forum post isn't going to change their mind. However, I have 4 computers in my house, 3 desktops and a laptop. I was hesitant to run Vista, but finally bit about 6 months ago. After a month of using Vista, I upgraded all the other systems to Vista and haven't looked back. I find it is snappy, responsive and very stable for my personal uses. The range of hardware is pretty diverse as well, from my wife's amd 3700 to my rig in sig below to my tablet laptop.
So I would say this is good marketing movement by MS, but really, for those that know computers, it probably won't change their mind. Marketing is marketing and most [H] readers know the difference. To each his own I say...
 
GET BACK ON TRACK

This thread is about an AD CAMPAIGN that shows how people that have never tried the OS are swayed by "Mojave".

This thread is not about why Vista is great / sucks.

The topic at hand is how Microsft has come out with a new ad campaign to lift Vista's image. Whether they use clowns, Justin Long, testimonials from switchers, actors, porn stars, comedians or testimonials from idiots who hated on Vista without ever trying it...these are ADS we are talking about.

The fact that they used the typical Vista haters and then swayed them into loving Mojave with a simple video is comedy gold and only goes to prove the point they were trying to make.

Get back on topic folks.
 
And what is MS's point Steve?

That promotional videos are good at persuading people to like a product?
What if these Vista haters actually used vista, hands-on, out of the box, like the campaign falsely implies, would the outcome still be funny? I have an idea, but I'd really like to know.

And yes I have been smoking something, thanks for asking.
 
My experience on the whole is that gaming is still noticeably faster on XP, no matter what any canned benchmark reviews say. Now granted, most of the games I play regularly are to the point where the penalty for running them under Vista doesn't affect my experience that much, but if you're borderline on performance, playing in XP instead of Vista can make a significant difference. There are also the other random odd performance issues such as greatly increased load-stutter in ES IV: Oblivion.

I've been dual booting XP64 and Vista 64 pretty much since Vista launched, and while Vista is far from perfect, for the great majority of tasks, I see no reason not to use it over XP. I merely keep both around for comparison's sake (for example in my recent crossfire testing) and for the odd occasion when a favorite game or something else inexplicably runs a lot better under XP.
 
Steve said:
GET BACK ON TRACK

This thread is about an AD CAMPAIGN that shows how people that have never tried the OS are swayed by "Mojave".

This thread is not about why Vista is great / sucks.

The topic at hand is how Microsft has come out with a new ad campaign to lift Vista's image. Whether they use clowns, Justin Long, testimonials from switchers, actors, porn stars, comedians or testimonials from idiots who hated on Vista without ever trying it...these are ADS we are talking about.

The fact that they used the typical Vista haters and then swayed them into loving Mojave with a simple video is comedy gold and only goes to prove the point they were trying to make.

Get back on topic folks.
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Did you *really* find that to be comedy "gold"?! I mean...seriously?

Steve, I don't know you from Adam, but that wasn't comedy at all -- because it wasn't funny. Ironic, perhaps, but if they were looking for "comedy gold", they missed the mark, by about 500 miles.

Comedy gold is Billy Madison, not these really unfunny/dumb "Mojave" commercials.

I'm simply wowed by the fact you find this to be comedy at all.
 
I think it's a great start to a campaign. The Mac Guy / PC Guy campaign is also funny, but they made it funny by throwing out problems and bugs and issues that were "typical" of Windows installations. Well, the last time they were typical was when XP first came out. They never mention Leopard blue-screening on install... Still, the comedy of the ads (which I do admit I enjoy) did more damage to Vista's image that MS likely predicted (oops). That MS's campaign will actually be factual and entertaining will add to its credibility.

If MS wants to improve the acceptance of Vista in the market, it needs to talk to actual consumers the way Apple has and not just rely on "Windows" as the word that will make people say "oh, this is okay then." Really, MS has taken the high-road here, and Apple is being brutal to their customers (i.e., fan base) by continually releasing and re-releasing okay kind of new products with beautiful industrial design.

You have to expect early instability when a company changes so much of the underlying operation of their software and releases a new version, of course it's going to be a bit rough around the edges for a while. Going from the RCs to the release Vista, I noticed a huge improvement, and actually fanaggled one of the few Vista installs here at work saying "I need to run all platforms". I only run one. LOL
 
I have Vista 64 Ultimate. When it first came out (no service pack), it did have a lot of problems and quirks I did not like, but then again, so did XP in the beginning.

The stability was poor, the responsiveness (or lack thereof) was unexplainable, and inexcusable. Also, all of the promised "features" were not there, only those they had time to put in. To this day the "Ultimate" part of the OS is a veritable rip-off. Those "Ultimate" extras just weren't there for many months and the ones they have released so far are poor pieces of crap. The video drivers were lacking as well, but that was an Nvidia and ATi issue.

With that said, SP1 improved things greatly. Suddenly things were snappy, stable, and dare I say, reliable. Everything works, even video card drivers. Games actually run better on my 64 bit Vista than they do on my other XP system. Want to know why? They ditched the original Vista kernel in favor of the snappier and better Server 2008 kernel. Shhh, nobody was supposed to notice.

Startup is very quick, although shutdown could use a speed up. Think of Vista SP1 as the "Second Edition" of Vista. Windows 98 sucked, but "Second Edition" was rock solid. The same here for Vista SP1.

The problem for Vista and Microsoft is first impressions. Vista (pre-SP1) made a very bad impression and left a bad taste in many people's mouths. There was I time I was so frustrated with it that I nearly switched back. However, SP1 did save the sinking ship. Gaining a good reputation is much harder after making a bad first impression. Microsoft needs to learn this lesson for "next time".
 
ive ran vista...my grandma's laptop is vista...i ripped all the pre-installed software out and wiped the drive just reinstalling vista and office...and tbh...ill take xp... Yeah vista is pretty, its got a few new toys...but its just not as fast as xp...im not sure why that is...nor do i care to mess with it more than i have...If they release a SP that makes it as fast or faster than my common xp installs on the same systems...hell im down to use it...till then...well...ill leave it to all the people who get it pre-installed
 
chulerico said:
that would be strange, I have never recall seen a microsoft comercial :confused:
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Most of their commercials are also rather subtle. Sometimes they're disguised in the form of OEM hardware commercials. Look at the latest HP touchscreen commercial and you'll see how smooth the OS runs, which is incidentally Windows Vista. Nobody'll think about Vista, but rather the fact that it's HP and the interface seems rather smooth and fluid.
 
GalacticCmdr said:
Of course the entire experiment hangs on the thread of credibility. How credible do you rate that these people are not just plants - or that they were pre-disposed to answering one way and then reversing themselves. Just as the interviewer prompted. The entire hidden camera angle plays heavily that these are just "real" people that we brought in.

This is really nothing more than a hard push by MS Marketing Department - IMO one of the most skilled marketing departments around. Nothing really new here. Still I think it will play well in those markets that the switch commercials pushed against.
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I very much doubt that. Microsoft risks too much if caught in a lie. You're stereotyping "marketing" with "lying" as people often do. There's too many people involved and the chance of word getting out that they're plants are far too great. Even NDA signers tend to think immediate family members are exempted from discussing what happened, and guess what? The family member didn't sign the NDA.
 
I first got Vista Ultimate when it came out. I loved it and would not ever want to go back to XP, I like the interface and the fact that it was really smooth also the security isn't annoying to me. (Why does everyone find the UAC annoying? I would love to know.)

And to anyone who is going to accuse me of an MS or Vista fanboi I am running Mandriva Linux on my friend's PC for testing purposes.
 
"We disguised Windows Vista.... so regular people who've never used Vista could see what it can do."

I think the logical implication is that they let these users, use, Vista. But you're right the marketing speak is carefully worded to not state, they used Vista.

Unfortunately they didn't let these people use Vista, they let them see:
"OMGZORS! Did you see the high res trailer for Vista! Looks like I can do everything, never crash, everything supported awesomeness!!! I bet my gamez will run ever fastarz!!!!!!"
 
sirus20x6 said:
I was very excited about vista, I tried the betas, the RCs, and I kept telling myself that they were going to have all of these problems fixed when it finally came out. well when it came out my NIC would say that it lost network connectivity, It would come back about 2 hours later randomly. I replaced the cable, I tried my other NIC on my mobo, I tried hooking straight up to the cable modem thinking it might be my hub. Nope it was vista. disabling IPV6 bought me about 20 more minutes on average before my connection would drop. Eventually I hooked up both of my network cards at once just so that I would always have one up. unfortunately that didn't happen either. I was still without internet unless i constantly rebooted. One of my NICs was Nvidia the other was Intel so it's not like I'm using noname equipment here.

Second problem, yes it was slow. very slow. I was using a 4600+ dual core cpu and i applied all the hotfixes and registry tweak I could think of. XP was so much faster. Enough of this garbage about oh they must have been using old machines. if those same old machines could run xp just fine why should vista run any worse? Shouldn't vista be leaner, be built with much more experience under the Devs belts? Shouldn't it be built with less legacy junk and thus run better? Nope it runs like junk compared to xp, sure the drivers aren't as polished yet, but vista will never run as well as xp.

Nobody would stand for it if they updated their linux kernel and their desktop ran 25% slower, and certainly the kernel devs wouldn't yell at people to get rid of their old machines and buy great new fancy ones so they could run a newer kernel.
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That's my experience with Vista almost exactly. I was running a FX-60 with 2 gigs of ram though. I tried every Beta and RC that Microsoft had and always ran into glitches and I always thought it would get better with the next release but it never did for me. I'm running a dual boot Vista/XP Pro right now on my X2-6400+, 4 gigs ram system and Vista isn't nearly as fast as XP Pro and I'm not running old outdated stuff. The annoying traits of Vista make me not use it nearly as much as I use XP and I have a choice everytime I boot up my machine.
 
QuakerOatz said:
"We disguised Windows Vista.... so regular people who've never used Vista could see what it can do."

I think the logical implication is that they let these users, use, Vista. But you're right the marketing speak is carefully worded to not state, they used Vista.

Unfortunately they didn't let these people use Vista, they let them see:
"OMGZORS! Did you see the high res trailer for Vista! Looks like I can do everything, never crash, everything supported awesomeness!!! I bet my gamez will run ever fastarz!!!!!!"
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yeah because the average people really think like that :rolleyes:

I think you're mistaking them for some of the [H] members.
 
I wonder how the participants were chosen for this marketing project. Good job marketing.

I would like to see some studies by a 3rd party organization not paid by MS or Apple to compare the usability and satisfaction between the major OSs.

As for the Vista FTW/Sucks comments here, I am surprised that the fanbois didn't start this by say, the third post. You can't even ask a troubleshooting question in these forums now without some tool saying 'you can fix your issue by formatting your Vista drive and re-install XP' etc etc..Vista is what it is and it is everywhere now and will become more popular so learn to deal with it or move to Apple/Linux and STFU.
 
Sorry Steve, I didn't see your post before making mine. :eek:

Where's the edit button gone to?
 
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