Microsoft Releases “Mojave Experiment” Videos

I used to hate Vista then I started using it. I've now come to the conclusion that I hate Microsoft for nurturing software and device development habits that brought us to this mess.

Vista isn't all that bad. People complain about resource usage but all of that doesn't mean jack if your system doesn't feel slow.

People complain about UAC but that's just applications that need to be fixed so as to not require admin access.

devices don't work but that's just expected considering how much different Vista is then the past OS's.

Maybe the next iteration of OS from MS will be better. I can only hope.
 
I got scared off of windows XP when it came out and was on windows 2000 for 3 years because of the fud people spread, and it was bullshit, windows 2000 was fast and rock stable, but the xp theme alone was worth the jump, something about it made 2000 look "dated". XP did have some problems 2000 didn't have but they were minor.

So I went to vista ultimate last summer, put it on my laptop, it was noticeably slower on some tasks, but it felt better for multitasking and it doesn't look bad ether. Did have alot of problems with it on my laptop, noticeably, everytime I would open up my laptop, the graphics would be all checkerboarded and distorted until I click "refresh" on the desktop. and network transfers were balls slow, but with SP1 those problems have been taken care of. I still have problems with vista on my desktop every once in awhile, like today, all sound coming from firefox stopped working, so I had to reboot. Rebooted, got to the vista loading bar, it loaded, but then would reboot, this happened 3 times, till I realized it must of been my USB keyboard (was using a ps/2 keyboard up till yesterday) and had to hit "use last known good configuration" to get into windows, seems like a lame problem.

All operating systems have their problems, vista is no different, just apple blows it out of proportion to support their douchey agenda.
 
These would make excellent commercials.

These are the people who spout off that they hate something just to sound like their tech-savy.

Apple panders to the stupid, why not Microsoft.
 
Killa_2327 said:
I don't understand all this Vista is slow and sluggish crap. Have you actually USED Vista for more than an hour?

If anything it seems faster to me for my typical tasks, Superfetch is awesome. :D
Click to expand...

Yeah. I got buffer underrun errors in the CD burning app when burning my recovery DVDs on the Vista machine. AT THE LOWEST POSSIBLE BURNING SPEED.

Took a second try before I got a successful burn.

As far as XP and 2K go, the system requirements are virtually identical.

People have a point with XP having been the bloat hog then and it was OMG SLOW on computers with common config at the time. But put it into perspective.

If I can run WinXP on a P2/450 and not suffer buffer underrun issues with burning a DVD...

Why should I have that issue on a Dualcore AMD64X2 at 1.8Ghz?

Windows XP Fundamentals is even leaner. Uses less resources and a smaller footprint that is comparable to WinNT4.
 
Oh man most if not all of these people are computer illiterate. No wonder they get so excited over 'Mojave' aka Vista. They are most likely running WinME at home. Also keep in mind that the test system is most likely a very good computer. JoeBlow with his 1.2ghz T-BIRD and integrated 64mb '3d' card will have a little surprise back at home when he tries to run Vista.

Eye 'candy' is worthless and total garbage for an OS. I want speed - no fuss no distraction no hanging, pause or halt. The added security features and 'protection' is welcomed to a certain extent but I feel like it's mostly for noobs. I've only got infested by a virus twice in the past hmmm 5 years with XP. Firefox + NoScript + Kaspersky

I've used Vista extensively for over 5 months. I felt so good coming back to XP
 
Koslov said:
Oh man most if not all of these people are computer illiterate. No wonder they get so excited over 'Mojave' aka Vista. They are most likely running WinME at home. Also keep in mind that the test system is most likely a very good computer. JoeBlow with his 1.2ghz T-BIRD and integrated 64mb '3d' card will have a little surprise back at home when he tries to run Vista.

Eye 'candy' is worthless and total garbage for an OS. I want speed - no fuss no distraction no hanging, pause or halt. The added security features and 'protection' is welcomed to a certain extent but I feel like it's mostly for noobs. I've only got infested by a virus twice in the past hmmm 5 years with XP. Firefox + NoScript + Kaspersky

I've used Vista extensively for over 5 months. I felt so good coming back to XP
Click to expand...

The computer illiterate are the majority of PC users by a long shot, and really the main demographic for MS and Apple. These are the naive people that buy into the Vista FUD hook line and sinker without ever using the OS. Then they go tell their friends how they heard it is shit, and they say "don't buy a PC with Vista". Or even worse, they tell everyone that the OS is not 'cool'. This is the type of hearsay that MS really needs to try to stop, and try to illuminate the average PC user as to what Vista is and isn't.
 
Pretty good for what it is there for, like some have said to shut up the naysayers that just go with the flow and eat up the fud about it.

As for me, was very excited up to Vistas launch, made Ultimate my one and only OS for a week then reformatted for XP and still had Vista as secondary for months. After SP1 I said hell with it made XP MCE 2005 my only OS and shelved it since then ... maybe till I jump into Nehalem and 4GB of ram.

I need speed and answer from the OS when I want it.
 
I already plan on upgrading to Vista the next time I do a major upgrade or I have to do a re-install. Sure they still have a way to go but that is why I am not upgrading right now.
 
Longinus00 said:
So according to engadget, the participants didn't actually use "Mojave" and instead were shown a 10 minute presentation on it.
http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/29/mojave-experiment-goes-live-doesnt-fail-to-annoy/
Click to expand...


Doesn't that actually PROVE the point?

A bunch of lamers who "heard it sucked / friend said it sucked / Apple said it sucked" were swayed by a 10 minute presentation (if that is in fact the case) into liking Vista.

The whole point is that 95% of all the bad stuff you hear about Vista is second / thrid / fourth hand accounts.
 
i didn't upgrade to vista until a decent DX10 game came out. crysis came out, i upgraded to vista for the dx10 capabilities and haven't touched my xp partition since then.

i have no idea where these so-called "vista-related, death to microsoft problems" came from.

i'm a 26 year old construction millwright. if i can install and use vista flawlessly with an sli rig on an asus p5n-e motherboard... well, i can't complete that sentence.

i am in construction, after all. :p
 
I used Vista for nearly a year on a brand new work laptop. I ended up disabling UAC and Aero to try to make it as fast/smooth as possible. It was still sluggish and the amount of functionality I lost in Vista made me really, REALLY dislike it.

Well last weekend I finally reformatted my laptop back to XP and all I can say is...

I GOT MY SPEEDY BACK! WOOT!


-----


OK for some more tangible points:
-In the time it took for my Vista laptop to get from Ctrl-Alt-Del to a desktop, I can turn on my Gaming PC running XP, get through a RAID boot (even though i don't use RAID), log into Windows, and start using it.
-Check out this list of things removed by Vista:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_removed_from_Windows_Vista
a lot of these 'changes' really made it hard to do my job as an IT system admin
-I kept my system as lean as possible. Like I said, disabled Aero and UAC, 2 GB of RAM, and a moderate laptop CPU. When I pressed Windows+L to lock my PC i had to wait 5 seconds for my machine to show it was going to lock.
-When I pressed Ctrl-ALt-Del to unlock my PC, if I started typing my password too fast it would miss the first few chars and I would have to reenter the password.
-Shutdown took forever. Obviously Microsoft doesn't think near-instant shutdowns matter anymore.
-Lots of software doesn't like Vista. Especially in the corporate world where sometimes you can't upgrade software in a timely manner. We will be buying Open Licenses so we can downgrade new machines to XP. No Vista for us.


I did think Vista looked aesthetically pleasing (the one thing I miss going back to XP), and some changes were very nice. but I think they screwed up way more than what the good makes up for. I also think they completely SHAFTED corporate users.


In the end, I'm back to XP at home and XP at work and I'm SO HAPPY. My work laptop is SNAPPY again and I love it. However, I do miss the look of the Vista theme and the damn snipping tool!
 
"Ignorance runs rampant even in spite of Microsoft's marketing machine"

NO, its BECUASE of it. MSFT marketing for Vista was a complete joke. They got pwn3d by Apple.

For the record: I like Vista. I run Vista64. It has been a flawless experience.
 
As to all of the "XP boots so much faster" posts: Turn the way-back machine to 1995. Take a typical rig running Win DOS and Win 3.1. Now put Win95 on it. Feel familliar? Put DOS and Win31 on a machine from today. If you can get it to work, marvel at the boot time. Based on this so often quoted metric all you XP guys should actually be running WfW3.11.

Sure XP boots faster and seems faster. At least at first. But I've found that in real use it is not faster. FSX runs way better on Vista64 than it did on XP32 or Vista32. I get all my 4GB. XP64? Good luck with that.

And I like the look and feel of Vista over XP. Yeah, I turned UAC off. But I didn't for my mom.

MSFT should tradmark UAC and call it "NewbGuard." It works very well.

But then my machine is not a slug.
 
vista definitely feels faster than xp, with my e4300 rig equipment. my network connectivity is 1000% quicker... to the first touch of online i can get. if you know what i mean.
 
Garret Jax said:
I love Vista. SuperFetch alone is worth the cost of admission.
Click to expand...

This.

Been using Vista Ultimate 64-bit for almost a year now (I think it's been a year...maybe a little longer), all of my hardware works perfectly except for a Kensington Bluetooth USB Dongle that still lacks any Vista 64bit drivers that actually work properly (Get on the ball Kensington, seriously.) My current machine with Vista on it, is much snappier than XP ever was, and I don't experience any of the BSOD's, or Illegal Operations that ran rampant under XP SP2

Even my AverTV PCI-e TV Tuner card works flawlessly under Vista media center in a 64bit environment, overall probably my favorite MS OS since Windows 2000
 
Well Vista after SP1 performs in a manner very similar to XP, in most cases. However, before SP1 there were several areas, like Disk-to-Disk and USB transfers, where Vista did in fact fail to perform! So, I would guess, that some of this prejudice is based on impressions of Vista after release, and not mere ignorance and misinformation.
 
i used vista for a month, and all i have to say is, for the average user, i think it would be great... but for me, hell no, i like being able to put files wherever i like on my file system, i dont want some stupid program to ask me if i would like to cancel or allow every time i try and do something etc... i just really didnt like it... i have a pretty decent system so i didnt think it was slow, just incredibly annoying... plus they moved so much stuff around in the control panels its really annoying...

i figure by the time SP2 comes out it will be worth moving over, just like XP, it sucked till SP2 came out...
 
no edit... sorry.

.. at least we don't have to boot into dos to obtain a reliable gaming platform anymore, with regards to how my old 486 dx4-90 with 16mb of ram and an ati 2MB something of somekind.

though part of the fun was getting the damn game running with some kind of interesting string combo of config and autoexec.

ahhh, the specialized boot disks for every game. :D

i could run sierra's king's quest VI through windows 3.1 though... with compaq tabs!

with windows 95 came the ability to write specific autoexec and config.sys from within windows advanced menus, for compatibility. i still preferred my bootdisks at the time though.

when ultimate doom came out and i was able to double-click the icon and have the game run reliably in win95, i was almost disappointed.


sorry for the long post, i had a reflective moment there.
 
FLECOM said:
... but for me, hell no, i like being able to put files wherever i like on my file system, i dont want some stupid program to ask me if i would like to cancel or allow every time i try and do something etc... i just really didnt like it...
Click to expand...



i don't seem to have this problem. either that, or i don't understand what you mean. i'm of the opinion that i can put any file wherever i'd like to. the odd security pop-up doesn't bother me at all. i'm not uber, it's not slowing me down.

of course, i'm running as administrator and i guess that circumvents many of the security features.

also, i hit shady internet sites with my xp computers. no need to foul my gaming\movies\regular not exposed to anything but good rig. :D

i think people just need more computers so they can bungle the one all to hell and swoop in with the second computer running the google and fix the bastard pos.
 
I've been using Vista for the better part of 3 months up from XP (free vendor copies ftw!)

I'm not impressed. It doesn't "feel" like anything "new" was done beyond making it look pretty, as almost all of the improvements are under the hood.

Instant-search I find useless (as it only caches your user file, and you need to press a seperate button to search everything)
Media centre files no longer if you hover over them show the title of the show in a tooltip

My wireless network connection is lost upon resuming from suspend for minutes for it to auto re-connect (but instant if I just disconnect and reconnect manually).

Suspend does not work out of the box like it did with XP. I needed to disable the ability to resume from standby with a keyboard or mouse as if it was not disabled, as soon as I hit suspend or hibernate it would do it's "suspending" and then immediately turn back on again.

I get UAC prompts twice if I want to re-name a file on an external hard drive(one for file operation (rename), one for me not being the person who "created" the file (even though it is tagged as "all users" in the file system))

Windows Movie Maker/Windows DVD Creator combo will not allow me to create any movies. Ever. As soon as I import the DVR-MS file or large MPEG file in, name the disk press "next" the program crashes. Every time. Nero 8 does not.

multi-tasking is better, it doesn't crash if I'm listening to a song, copying a large file from an external drive, and browsing the web like XP used to. Aero looks pretty. Flip 3D is useless, sidebar is useless (ohh how I wish sidebar was like the dashboard in OS X) in the sense that I have found no real use for it.

However, SP3 did kill dvd burning on my MCE2005 desktop, which sucked.
 
handiest feature of vista for me is the little note-pad gadget.

so simple yet so... fluck yeah!
 
Search, Security, Aero, Explorer's Favorites links, Check Boxes for selecting files, instead of using CTRL-Click.

I love that I can change the drive that the Desktop or Public Folders are in by must dragging them to a different drive.

The Superfetch cache is good. I have less networking issues than I had with XP (which is to say I have none).

The Sidebar is pretty nice, though all I'm currently using it for is a clock and weather. If I used it at work, I'd add the stock gadget, which isn't bad. I wish my brokers had gadgets for it, so I could get RT quotes and perhaps do some trades.

OTOH, I'm not terribly fond of the renaming of add/remove programs, but I've gotten use to it. There are some things that seem harder to get to, but they're also things that most user don't use (e.g. Device Manager or Monitor Settings). As such, while they're a mild inconvenience, it's not deal killer for me, and it's almost irrelevant for the typical user.

It's not pe
 
techrat said:
I also ended up buying an ACER laptop for my parents to replace their aging one. It was, within reason, similar spec to my ASUS. 1.8Ghz clocked AMDX2 mobile versus a 2.0Ghz clocked Core2Duo mobile.

Vista dragged. Uninstalled the apps, still dragged. Mainly on 3D. Made my recovery
Click to expand...

Sounds like a video card problem. I've run Vista with an 800XL, and it had no issues at all, even at 1920x1440.

Then again, I don't worry about getting every last ounce of performance out of a system. It's not like Vista is running that many processes on a clean install. What's more, it makes much better use of RAM than XP (that is it actually will use ram if it's available, unlike XP, which seems likes to pretend that extra ram is best left untouched, less you wear it out).
 
OAB said:
I've been using Vista for the better part of 3 months up from XP (free vendor copies ftw!)

I'm not impressed. It doesn't "feel" like anything "new" was done beyond making it look pretty, as almost all of the improvements are under the hood.

Instant-search I find useless (as it only caches your user file, and you need to press a seperate button to search everything)
Media centre files no longer if you hover over them show the title of the show in a tooltip

My wireless network connection is lost upon resuming from suspend for minutes for it to auto re-connect (but instant if I just disconnect and reconnect manually).

Suspend does not work out of the box like it did with XP. I needed to disable the ability to resume from standby with a keyboard or mouse as if it was not disabled, as soon as I hit suspend or hibernate it would do it's "suspending" and then immediately turn back on again.

I get UAC prompts twice if I want to re-name a file on an external hard drive(one for file operation (rename), one for me not being the person who "created" the file (even though it is tagged as "all users" in the file system))

Windows Movie Maker/Windows DVD Creator combo will not allow me to create any movies. Ever. As soon as I import the DVR-MS file or large MPEG file in, name the disk press "next" the program crashes. Every time. Nero 8 does not.

multi-tasking is better, it doesn't crash if I'm listening to a song, copying a large file from an external drive, and browsing the web like XP used to. Aero looks pretty. Flip 3D is useless, sidebar is useless (ohh how I wish sidebar was like the dashboard in OS X) in the sense that I have found no real use for it.

However, SP3 did kill dvd burning on my MCE2005 desktop, which sucked.
Click to expand...


i think it's silly to expect, for example, windows movie maker to be anything special. yes, you get nice capabilities for that kinda thing out of the box with a mac but it's still amateur production software and the lesser hardware/higher price thing is weird, even with the addition of their software.

i use ableton live 7 with reason 4.0 with no problems in vista. it was part of the reason i was worried about switching over too, the compatibility issues people were having with simpler programs. my m-audio and korg gear recognize perfectly as well.

i feel you about the suspend/external copying problems, but those problems haven't plagued me in the least. unless my sub shakes my mouse or my usb cable is unplugged. i've never ran across an issue copying a file to an external location.

i'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it's not normal behaviour for windows vista, i'd speculate.

my nvidia drivers have been known to crash once or eight times in vista. but they did that in xp too :p not enough to open a "windows vista is crashing my computer" thread though.
 
elektronisch said:
I watched a few videos, and not a single person seems like a [h]ard user.

Failure.
Click to expand...

Why would MS create a marketing campaign that appealed to 1% of the market?

The key here is that people tell these consumers that Vista sucks are not in touch with what the typical consumer likes.

If we could just do away with embedded graphics (the worst thing to ever happen to computers and pc gaming), most problems would cease to exist....esp intel graphics.
 
Armandoban said:
These videos need to hit on the IT guys who know for a fact your practically new perfectly good Photosmart printer and your favorite webcam just ain't gonna work in Vista because the selfish manufacturer says we will provide no Vista drivers now or ever, plz buy new printer. Drivers drivers drivers! Not everyone wants to update all their peripherals when they get a new OS. That's my complaint.
Click to expand...

Epson doesn't write drivers for my 6 or 7 year old printer, but there's a driver for it in vista. And let's face it, unless you've bought a fairly expensive printer, you can probably get a new printer for about the price of the ink. Epson certainly has drivers for printers that were made in the last 3 or 4 years.

As for web cams, can't say there. Never felt I needed one.
 
Joshuad156 said:
I used Vista for nearly a year on a brand new work laptop. I ended up disabling UAC and Aero to try to make it as fast/smooth as possible. It was still sluggish and the amount of functionality I lost in Vista made me really, REALLY dislike it.

Well last weekend I finally reformatted my laptop back to XP and all I can say is...

I GOT MY SPEEDY BACK! WOOT!
Click to expand...

Something was screwed up in your install. I've seen f*cked up XP installs at work. I suspect if you looked in the event logs, you'd have found some app or driver was causing your problems.

I say all that, because I've run Vista on a 2GB E4300 for the last 6 or 7 months, and had none of these problems. I also ran RC2 on a Athlon XP 3000+, and it was fine, except for 3d Gaming, which was due to the atrocious drivers from ATI (and Nvidia) at the time.

For reference, on the worst XP build I've seen at work, if you double click on a word document it takes about a minute to open. If you open Word and then open the file by doing a file->open, it's a few seconds.

Reinstalling office 2003 didn't help...and this is a 2GB core2 system....and it was doing it from day one.




-----


OK for some more tangible points:
-In the time it took for my Vista laptop to get from Ctrl-Alt-Del to a desktop, I can turn on my Gaming PC running XP, get through a RAID boot (even though i don't use RAID), log into Windows, and start using it.
-Check out this list of things removed by Vista:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_removed_from_Windows_Vista
a lot of these 'changes' really made it hard to do my job as an IT system admin
-I kept my system as lean as possible. Like I said, disabled Aero and UAC, 2 GB of RAM, and a moderate laptop CPU. When I pressed Windows+L to lock my PC i had to wait 5 seconds for my machine to show it was going to lock.
-When I pressed Ctrl-ALt-Del to unlock my PC, if I started typing my password too fast it would miss the first few chars and I would have to reenter the password.
-Shutdown took forever. Obviously Microsoft doesn't think near-instant shutdowns matter anymore.
-Lots of software doesn't like Vista. Especially in the corporate world where sometimes you can't upgrade software in a timely manner. We will be buying Open Licenses so we can downgrade new machines to XP. No Vista for us.


I did think Vista looked aesthetically pleasing (the one thing I miss going back to XP), and some changes were very nice. but I think they screwed up way more than what the good makes up for. I also think they completely SHAFTED corporate users.


In the end, I'm back to XP at home and XP at work and I'm SO HAPPY. My work laptop is SNAPPY again and I love it. However, I do miss the look of the Vista theme and the damn snipping tool![/QUOTE]
 
snaggletooth said:
handiest feature of vista for me is the little note-pad gadget.

so simple yet so... fluck yeah!
Click to expand...

it's not bad, but if i was actually using somthing like that, i think i'd just download stickies. It's better if you use it very much.
 
perhaps, but the functions i want are there. i wouldn't bother downloading anything else for loose notes.

for bigger ones there's always notepad.exe.
 
Things are reaching the boiling point at my small computer store.

Customers are so brainwashed they're lining up to have my try to uninstall Vista from their notebooks and put XP on instead. They keep claiming one reason or another but there's usually never anything concrete (other than people who royally screw up their OS, just like they would have with XP).

Now, I have one right now that's really the tipping point. Dell's new Studio line of notebooks have NO Windows XP drivers, and at this point there is almost no way to get all the on-board hardware working in XP. So, Vista is it. This is the, "No turning back" moment for Dell consumers.

Now, where am I going with this? After doing god only knows how many OS reinstalls I've figured out why at least 50% of new Vista users hate it. The pre-installs from the major vendors. The preloaded software packages are so fubar that the systems are all terribly slow or worse... unstable. I'm not talking about the usual argument of "Vista is a little slower than XP". I'm talking about how the big OEMs have gone back to the days of piling on dozens of crap programs, many of which are stay-resident and really screw with how things are supposed to work.

OF COURSE people are going to hate Vista if their first experience is an LSD inspired carnival ride of preloaded software. These systems come out of the box looking like a teenager installed every random program they ran across on the internet.

Anyway, that's my rant for tonight. Tomorrow morning I'm going to reintroduce a customer to Vista, installed from scratch with no extra software and UAC turned off. They won't even recognize the system. Maybe I can undo their first impression. Maybe.
 
1. copying a file takes way too long.
2. financial software won't work on it
i can't work if the software doesn't run and file copying takes long enough to grab a coffee. xp for me
 
oops . . . was wondering about the guy 7th from the left, second row: "skeptical comment about why is it faster - loved it, lol
 
I think this was an ingenious move from Microsoft. Something that one would not expect such a company do. Windows Vista still has some irritating features but maybe they will be fixed in the future.
 
I'm one of the "didn't like Vista pre-SP1, but now using it post-SP1" crowd.

The only major complaint I have is the file copy times; They are noticeably longer than doing the same operation in XP, especially when using the built-in zip extractor. If someone has a solution to fixing the file copy speeds, I'm all ears :)
 
"Funny how trying it out for yourself can change your opinion so quickly..."

Funny - I tried Vista, and went straight back to XP. I didn't like it. It was slower. It was more obstructive. It was more annoying. Some applications didn't work.

I wonder what would happen if you gave these people their brown Mojave box, and sent them home to install it and try it. I'd imagine they'd have different opinions of actually trying to live with Vista, instead of a pretty setup demo.

Doug
 
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