Microsoft Introduces Surface Pro 3 Docking Station

CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Um, Apple has been selling iPads since forever. There are tons of wannabe iPad copycat tablets that use Google's spyware Android OS. Those 3COM people made adorable, cute little pocket sized tablets like the Palm IIIxe which used AAA batteries and didn't need any lame-o rechargeable stuff. Oh, and Fujitsu and Toshiba made tablets that used Windows 95 so tons of other companies have been doing the tablet thing for far longer than Microsoft has with their totally useless, overpriced Surface.
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Uhm... There is no comparison between a cute little toy like the iPad and a real x86 tablet like the Surface Pro. The Surface Pro is what tablets should have been all along.

(And for what its worth I'd take Android over iOS any day. Google has a well defined and trustworthy privacy policy that shares aggregated and anonymized data. Apple on the other hand plays wild west with privacy and location data.)
 
Zarathustra[H];1041034212 said:
Uhm... There is no comparison between a cute little toy like the iPad and a real x86 tablet like the Surface Pro. The Surface Pro is what tablets should have been all along.

(And for what its worth I'd take Android over iOS any day. Google has a well defined and trustworthy privacy policy that shares aggregated and anonymized data. Apple on the other hand plays wild west with privacy and location data.)
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Anything with a full fledged x86 architecture that can run ALL desktop software >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything with an ARM based CPU.

They aren't even on the same planet. The Surface Pro is so ridiculously superior to any iPad or Android tablet every made that it is silly to even mention them in the same sentence.

Lets stop comparing ARM based childrens toys with a real computer.
 
Go type up a forum post on an ipad, open a new tab to search for an image, and then go back to your post. Let me know if your post is still there.

BTW, I own 3 iPads and a Surface Pro 3. I'll take the Surface 9 times out of 10.
 
k1pp3r said:
Try to run vcenter or system center VMM on an iPad and get back to me :)
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There's virtualization stuff out there:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1041034181#post1041034181

But anyhow, you and this other person missed the point of my post. Yeah sure anyone can name some random program that it can't run (but you can say the same thing about the Surface too), but there are very few things that people can't do with a different program on an iPad that the Surface can't.

Zarathustra[H];1041034215 said:
Anything with a full fledged x86 architecture that can run ALL desktop software >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything with an ARM based CPU.

They aren't even on the same planet. The Surface Pro is so ridiculously superior to any iPad or Android tablet every made that it is silly to even mention them in the same sentence.

Lets stop comparing ARM based childrens toys with a real computer.
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Hehe, "real" computer. I'm pretty sure iPads are physically real objects and they compute things too which makes them just as real as any other computer. :p They're also both available on Earth which means they're on the same planet. You also just mentioned them in the same sentence so you're silly by your own standards.
 
The Surface Pro is for people who want a PC on the go. An Ipad is for people who want to look important or watch youtube videos/play angry birds.
 
NickJames said:
The Surface Pro is for people who want to look like they can use PC on the go. An Ipad is for people who want to look important or watch youtube videos/play angry birds.
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Fixed. :p Also, your unedited statement is an opinion about something rather than any sort of factual observation about the usage model of the devices.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Do you actually own an iPad?

http://ipadinsight.com/ios/tabbed-browsing-for-ipads-safari-in-ios-5-looks-good/
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Yep, an iPad mini with Retina (the current one), an iPad mini and an iPad 3. They all reload web pages after changing tabs (not all the time but most of the time). It happens frequently enough that I can't depend on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFLDT9l6XFk

I've have tried it on DOZENS of iPad Airs/iPad mini retinas. Yes, it is a problem.
 
As far as I am concerned:

Surface Pro (or any other Win 8 x86 tablet) >>> High end Android tablet >> any iPad > Windows 8 ARM tablet >> low end China generic Android tablet.

But really, based on capabilities x86 Win8 tablets are in a different category all together and shouldn't be compared to ARM tablets (be they Windows, Android or iOS)

It's only a matter of time before Apple joins the fray with a MacBook Air based x86 tablet.

When the iPad first came out, my thoughts were "cool idea, but I'll wait for one that will run desktop software and I can plug my USB devices into". With the surface Pro that has now happened. If it weren't for my many other financial commitments right now, including my home server overhaul (and for the fact that work gives me a laptop to use for free) I'd already have one.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Fixed. :p Also, your unedited statement is an opinion about something rather than any sort of factual observation about the usage model of the devices.
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Nah not really, it's definitely a fact man, looked at my sources and it checks out.
 
An OSX tablet with the iOS app library would be an instant buy for me though. The only reason I keep my iPads are for the apps. There just isn't anything comparable in any other ecosystem.
 
thelead said:
An OSX tablet with the iOS app library would be an instant buy for me though. The only reason I keep my iPads are for the apps. There just isn't anything comparable in any other ecosystem.
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Yeah there is. Android has equivalent apps for everything on IPAD.
 
VladDracule said:
Yeah there is. Android has equivalent apps for everything on IPAD.
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I'd say that the iPad ecosystem is a bit better than Android but that gap is pretty narrow these days, most major apps launch for iOS and Android simultaneously these days. Windows 8 is well behind both in top tier apps but most of the major stuff is there now.
 
VladDracule said:
Yeah there is. Android has equivalent apps for everything on IPAD.
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I don't agree. The polish on most Android educational apps and music apps just aren't there. I will agree that most, if not all, of the generally popular apps are available for Android but once you start looking into niche apps, iOS pulls away.
 
thelead said:
I don't agree. The polish on most Android educational apps and music apps just aren't there. I will agree that most, if not all, of the generally popular apps are available for Android but once you start looking into niche apps, iOS pulls away.
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I can pretty much guarantee that you will find an equivalent "niche" android app as on IOS. There are random little one-off ported games that only exist on IOS that look/play like shit such as KOTOR so nobody really cares about that anyways...at least they shouldnt
 
Red Falcon said:
I think what he means is, he's already purchased the apps, and there is no other platform to transfer them to.
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That is a very fair point. I have 2 android tablets and used to have an Android but have 0 paid for apps...However if i had money put into apps i would have never want to switch my phone to the Lumia Icon.
 
VladDracule said:
Yeah there is. Android has equivalent apps for everything on IPAD.
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I would even argue that Androids app ecosystem is better these days. There was a time when Androids app ecosystem was inferior, but that has changed.

The open architecture that allows developers to develop apps that aren't forced to play in sandboxes or pass any one companies scrutiny to wind up in an app store has led to more truly useful apps being available.

iOS still has more apps overall, but most of them are of the lame and pointless variety, like apps to view webpages with perfectly good mobile sites and pointless little games.

One argument to stick with iOS if you already have it - however - is definitely to not lose the paid apps you've already bought.

That - however - IMHO is the only reason to keep any Apple device these days. When iOS first launched it was definitely superior to other smartphone platforms (I had three I phones in a row), but for my last three mobile upgrade cycles (once every two years, so for the last six years) the available Android devices have been superior to the Apple devices, and it hasn't been close.

That and I trust Google with my private data MUCH more than I do Apple. Google has well defined privacy features and anonymized data profiles. Apple on the other hand plays fast and loose with the data and are opaque about everything the collect (until one of those frequent news stories when something else has been discovered)
 
VladDracule said:
That is a very fair point. I have 2 android tablets and used to have an Android but have 0 paid for apps...However if i had money put into apps i would have never want to switch my phone to the Lumia Icon.
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That should say Android Phone...damn you [H] for still refusing an edit button in this section why is that even a rule?
 
VladDracule said:
Yeah there is. Android has equivalent apps for everything on IPAD.
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Actually, more than equivelant. The custom ROMS available for Android and general customizability puts it lightyears ahead of what you can accomplish with an iPad.

I should know, I just sold my iPad 4th gen for a Nexus 7. I thought about a iPad Mini for car use instead, but the N7 with a magnetic wireless charging station just kicks ass. I need to upload a video, pretty happy with it. :)
 
Ducman69 said:
Actually, more than equivelant. The custom ROMS available for Android and general customizability puts it lightyears ahead of what you can accomplish with an iPad.

I should know, I just sold my iPad 4th gen for a Nexus 7. I thought about a iPad Mini for car use instead, but the N7 with a magnetic wireless charging station just kicks ass. I need to upload a video, pretty happy with it. :)
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Yeah, I have a 2013 Nexus 7 as well and love it. MUCH better than my girlfriends iPad mini.

Neither of them are a full fledged computer like the Surface Pro though.
 
iPad has plenty of kiddie apps when guests come over but it took years for useful stuff like electronic design EveryCircuit to show up:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.everycircuit.free&hl=en

s9zyxbcwCNC6-rHBRgQQlm8n0q_xRjNYz4eMO2pv-UUuaDund488pHKRfNGwZaIuOTwm=h900-rw
 
mi7chy said:
But the best design tools like OrCAD run on devices like Surface Pro 3.

http://www.orcad.com/
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Exactly, which is why ARM tablets will really never be anything but media consumption toys.

Don't get me wrong. I have my 2013 Nexus 7, and I make good use of it, but it wouldn't touch a tablet that can run:

- Capture NX2 (my nikon camera software)
- Full versions of photoshop
- Full versions of Minitab
- Full office versions (because even though they exist, the app versions are limiting.)

Pretty much any software I want from any source (including games, provided the hardware can support it) without having to pass through some dictatorial vetting system which bans some of the most useful apps based on them being bad for the hardware manufacturers business and agreements, and limiting me to cute little platform games similar to what I played on my Nintendo back in 1985.

Yes, it winds up being a little bulkier (do deal with heat and battery requirements) but it's well worth it. No other feature can beat the capability of running existing full featured desktop software, instead of some limited apps that seem toylike by comparison.
 
Zarathustra[H];1041034485 said:
Exactly, which is why ARM tablets will really never be anything but media consumption toys.
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Perhaps today but I wouldn't go as far as saying never. ARM is the lower power king aiming for higher performance while x86-64 has the performance advantage aiming for lower power but both have the same low power high performance goal. Between the two ARM has less legacy baggage as in less die space that consumes power and create heat, is evolving at a much faster pace and is more heavily financed with the explosion of mobile devices. Given the same TDP budget the overall experience is clearly better with ARM now and will surely get better in the future. In some areas like accelerated video decoding ARM (Snapdragon 800) is already a much better experience than i5-4300U. Deliver the hardware performance and capabilities and software will soon follow to fully utilize it.

Amazing how capable these things are:

http://www.hardkernel.com/main/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G140448267127

http://youtu.be/tE5wJzItppU
 
mi7chy said:
Perhaps today but I wouldn't go as far as saying never. ARM is the lower power king aiming for higher performance while x86-64 has the performance advantage aiming for lower power but both have the same low power high performance goal. Between the two ARM has less legacy baggage as in less die space that consumes power and create heat, is evolving at a much faster pace and is more heavily financed with the explosion of mobile devices. Given the same TDP budget the overall experience is clearly better with ARM now and will surely get better in the future. In some areas like accelerated video decoding ARM (Snapdragon 800) is already a much better experience than i5-4300U. Deliver the hardware performance and capabilities and software will soon follow to fully utilize it.

Amazing how capable these things are:

http://www.hardkernel.com/main/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G140448267127

http://youtu.be/tE5wJzItppU
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Fair enough, but something drastic will have to happen to tilt the likes of Microsoft or Apple to shift their desktop strategies to ARM, so that software vendors will follow.

I agree, it's not a technical limitation. heck, most people don't use even close to the amount of power they have in their current x86 CPU's even low end ones. it's really just the legacy software, and the lower cost of incrementally improving what is out there, compared to rewriting it from scratch that keeps ARM back.

Though Apple has proven architecture shifts like this ARE possible...
 
The fundamental problem with tablets is that they are great for consuming content and they are terrible for creating content. The Surface tries to close the content creation gap, but ultimately someone who needs to create content is far better off with an ultrabook than with a tablet.
 
Zarathustra[H];1041034362 said:
Neither of them are a full fledged computer like the Surface Pro though.
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Which is actually a good thing IMO. A full fledged computer is going to come with compromises in physical size, battery life, weight, and heat output.

If you HAVE to have a true laptop class machine wherever you go, then this is basically a strong ultrabook contender.

Otherwise, if you are content creating content on a desktop when back at "home base", and just consuming the content when on the go, a desktop + phone with a huge screen works great.
 
Ducman69 said:
Which is actually a good thing IMO. A full fledged computer is going to come with compromises in physical size, battery life, weight, and heat output.
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On the contrary, the more companies that put R&D into devices like the surface would lead to smaller and more power efficient devices.

Except batteries, they are in dire need of something better, like handheld ractors!!!!
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Do you actually own an iPad?

http://ipadinsight.com/ios/tabbed-browsing-for-ipads-safari-in-ios-5-looks-good/
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thelead said:
Yep, an iPad mini with Retina (the current one), an iPad mini and an iPad 3. They all reload web pages after changing tabs (not all the time but most of the time). It happens frequently enough that I can't depend on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFLDT9l6XFk

I've have tried it on DOZENS of iPad Airs/iPad mini retinas. Yes, it is a problem.
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LOL, never heard back from you once I posted this^
 
I picked up the SP3 i5 on pre-order, and bought one of the well-reviewed USB 3.0 'docking stations' (really, should be called a port replicator). The annoying thing with all of these video-over-usb solutions is that it takes, sometimes, a significant amount of CPU to compress/decompress the video signal to go over the DisplayLink interface. I've seen up to 20% CPU usage by the displaylink adapter process alone if outputting a full-screen video to the external monitor. Makes the fan on the SP3 whir like crazy. I didn't realize it would be that bad, else I might have waited for MS's docking station.
 
Zarathustra[H];1041040714 said:
Granted, haven't tried Opera since the ~2002 or so, but back when I did, it flat out refused to render popular websites properly.

I'd try it, but I am happy with Chromium.
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I don't think Opera really does anything bad with rendering sites. Lynx does, but it's supposed to be that way. I've never really tried Chromium (not seriously) so I dunno much about it. The being derived from Google's trojan malware browser is kinda scary enough to keep me and kitty from wanting to mess with it.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
I don't think Opera really does anything bad with rendering sites. Lynx does, but it's supposed to be that way. I've never really tried Chromium (not seriously) so I dunno much about it. The being derived from Google's trojan malware browser is kinda scary enough to keep me and kitty from wanting to mess with it.
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Meh, any data Google collects is properly anonymized and aggregated. I feel a lot less comfortable when it comes to Facebook and Apple which are much more opaque about their data collection practices.
 
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