Microsoft Experimenting With Free Version Of Windows 8.1

I can already see the idiocracy future.

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pxc said:
MS needs a version of Windows which doesn't require 32GB minimum storage space. It's an embarrassment how bloated it is for low cost, consumer oriented tablets.
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The baseline requirements for Windows 8.1 update have been reduced to 1 GB of RAM and 16 GB of storage. I have no idea how much storage would left on a such a device or how well it will perform, but we're talking about pretty cheap devices and Android isn't always fleet of foot on such hardware and iOS does have something of reputation with low memory issues. But it's also a bit embarrassing that one can go by something like a Dell Venue 8 Pro with 2 GB of RAM and 64 GB of memory for the same price as an non-retina iPad Mini with only half the RAM and 1/4 the storage. Good for Apple that they can charge so much money for not so great hardware specs though.
 
Ur_Mom said:
Would this be for OEM's, even after they already just got a discounted OEM version (for sub-$250 devices)?
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Why not? It would allow them more margin on the cheapest of devices.

Trimlock said:
Well it looks like they are trying to leverage the size of the os to the intended device. They just aren't doing a very good job of it right now.
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Yes and no. These little 2 GB/32 GB Bay Trail devices are actually capable of quite a lot for the money. Sure on the cheapest of hardware these specs are high but these specs are not at all ridiculous for mobile OS devices.
 
heatlesssun said:
Good for Apple that they can charge so much money for not so great hardware specs though.
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I hate Apple as much as the next guy, but my iPad ran perfect. Never any low memory errors, hardware wise it was excellent. Expensive, sure. I bought it a year before the Surface arrived (Microsoft was slow on the release, and I needed a tablet then, not later). If the iPad fits your needs, it's a damn good tablet.
 
heatlesssun said:
Why not? It would allow them more margin on the cheapest of devices.
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True. But, is it marketed for OEM's or for retail release? For those cheap devices, it may work just fine. But, why would Microsoft sell a super cheap OS for OEM's then also release a free ad supported one for the same group? Sure, it could happen. But, I am just not sure how great it would work... I'd say they should release the cheap OEM and see how well that goes, then release the ad-supported model in later if it's successful.
 
Ur_Mom said:
I hate Apple as much as the next guy, but my iPad ran perfect. Never any low memory errors, hardware wise it was excellent. Expensive, sure. I bought it a year before the Surface arrived (Microsoft was slow on the release, and I needed a tablet then, not later). If the iPad fits your needs, it's a damn good tablet.
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Not saying that the iPad isn't great, but the low memory issue is pretty well reported. But like any OS of product, not everyone sees the same issues. I can't say I've seen 1/10th the technical issues people have complained about with 8.x.
 
Ur_Mom said:
True. But, is it marketed for OEM's or for retail release? For those cheap devices, it may work just fine. But, why would Microsoft sell a super cheap OS for OEM's then also release a free ad supported one for the same group? Sure, it could happen. But, I am just not sure how great it would work... I'd say they should release the cheap OEM and see how well that goes, then release the ad-supported model in later if it's successful.
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I would figure there'd be some feature differentiation going on and/or perhaps hardware specs. Like the free version would be only 1 GB/16 GB devices. Something similar to when Microsoft allowed OEMs to but XP on netbooks for low cost but not other kinds of devices. There's nothing really new going on in a way, creating different price points for Windows for different kinds of devices.
 
I think the only problem with stuff like the Venue 8 is the kinda small amount of storage. If they'd stop it with forcing us to use only SSDs and maybe make a hard drive equipped version, we could have a lot of 1 TB tablets for super cheap monies.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
I think the only problem with stuff like the Venue 8 is the kinda small amount of storage. If they'd stop it with forcing us to use only SSDs and maybe make a hard drive equipped version, we could have a lot of 1 TB tablets for super cheap monies.
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Give me a user swappable SSD and a way to upgrade RAM, and I'd be all over that machine.

But, the Dell has SD storage, doesn't it? Add another 64 GB. It's just a simple tablet. That in addition to online storage, you should be good. You aren't putting on a ton of porn (if you are, look into Plex for streaming it from your 16 TB NAS porn storage pool).
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
I think the only problem with stuff like the Venue 8 is the kinda small amount of storage. If they'd stop it with forcing us to use only SSDs and maybe make a hard drive equipped version, we could have a lot of 1 TB tablets for super cheap monies.
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The Venue 8 Pro weighs 13 ounces is a third on inch thick and gets around 8 to 10 hours of battery life. With the 64GB model and a 64 GB microSD card, 128 GB of total storage in something this portable is better than many might think. I've got full Office 2013 Pro installed along with Visual Studio Ultimate and number of other desktop apps along with 100+ modern apps. and I still have over 40GB free total. Sure more would be better but for an 8" tablet it packs a wallop and it's pretty inexpensive. It's the best cheap PC device I've ever owned.
 
I personally hate the way MS operates. OK they are experimenting with free, remember windows starter? They are just too conflicted in interest. They want to have it both ways, have cheap free stuff to compete with google but still bring in massive cash flows from people who buy windows ultimate / pro / whatever and office.

The best I can tell if you buy windows OEM in mass it will cost you about $50. So why does MS charge $100+ to their best customers who build their own rigs?

IMO windows PERIOD just needs to drop to 49.99 flat for every version for a single computer. The bulk of money always came from the large OEMs but the large OEMs have never done anything to help MS keep up with the times. No its the small players, the upstarts and the DIY crowd that MS screws over that drives new devices in that the big OEMs later copy.


IMO O365 should include rights to download the latest version of windows as well. If you are subscribing at roughly $10 / month. Over time they are getting more money out of you and should respect you for that and try to keep you current.

What MS is thinking is probably something like give windows away for free then try to make money on office. But IMO that wont work. I say do the opposite and give windows away for free IF you buy office and offer office at a severe discount if you bought a PC with a paid license of windows.
 
rudy said:
The best I can tell if you buy windows OEM in mass it will cost you about $50. So why does MS charge $100+ to their best customers who build their own rigs?
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It's not exactly an uncommon practice in any business to sell at a large discount to big distributors.
 
GotNoRice said:
The Windows 8.1 Spring Update is supposed to lower the requirements to 1GB Ram, 16GB Storage, down from 2GB Ram, 32GB Storage.
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lol, that's not because it will work the same, but will just make free storage space much tighter, and increase swapping while multi-tasking. I imagine the highlights of those devices will be the ability to install and run Metro apps and browse the web.

I should have figured a "Microsoft Way" of fixing the problem would be a disaster.
 
pxc said:
lol, that's not because it will work the same, but will just make free storage space much tighter, and increase swapping while multi-tasking. I imagine the highlights of those devices will be the ability to install and run Metro apps and browse the web.

I should have figured a "Microsoft Way" of fixing the problem would be a disaster.
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Free disk space is increased quite a bit with a new Windows 8.1 Update one install, it was being reported that one of the Update 1 ISO leaks can in at 10 GB install size. That is only 6 GB free. Of course it might do lower than with the RTM. So there could be about 7 GB or so free on something well under $200, that's not terrible.

But sure, these devices wouldn't be used much for running lots of desktop apps or multitasking. How many people buy cheap Android devices and install desktop apps on them and do lots of multitasking? I have no idea where you're coming up with the notion of a disaster when for the same money today's Windows tablets will blow away Android and iOS when it comes to installing desktop apps and multitasking.
 
I can tell you what they'd like to do is have the OS be free, but locked to only running apps from the app store where they take a cut of all paid app sales.
 
Thurrott showed disc space usage of around 9GB on the Windows desktop a few weeks ago ("117GB free of 126GB" in a screenshot, the 10GB space figure is the amount needed for installation), but that's not the only space that would be used.

There would be some kind of utility/recovery/restore partition on the device, which could possibly be freed after putting it on a USB drive. Then there's the pre-installed Office Student & Home 2013 (~2GB footprint on disc) which comes with the low cost Windows license, plus other pre-installed junk. And Windows tends to bloat when installing applications, besides Metro apps on 8.x, even after the applications are removed.

It wouldn't be long before a WOW / MUCH 4-5GB* FREE SPACE / SO AMAZE becomes filled or unusable. It reminds me of low end 64MB MP3 players which came out after other players were in the 1GB+ range. Sure, you can listen to audio on it, but would you really want to? :p

* less than half the free space low cost 16GB Android/iOS devices typically have available
 
heatlesssun said:
It's not exactly an uncommon practice in any business to sell at a large discount to big distributors.
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Its also not exactly uncommon for a large company to make a horrendously stupid mistake that costs them big time in the long run.

What is MSs biggest enemy right now? Oh its the vast amount of people who will NOT upgrade to windows 8. Lets be honest those OEMs are going to buy windows no matter what to put on a new machine. But consumers have a choice, a choice to not upgrade at all especially when its going to cost them $100 to $200, and tech savvy people who build their own machines have a choice to pick another OS. By giving those people the WORST possible pricing they are reaping what they sow. Creating problems with old OSes that wont die like windows XP that they have to keep supporting over and over. In EVERY other segment we have a word for when its cheaper to replace an item then fix it or upgrade it, its called totaled. MS can never seem to understand that when an average consumer walks into best buy and is faced with $200 for a retail copy of an OS their machine is totaled and its cheaper to get a new one with a $50 OS from an OEM, but the logic tons if not most consumers come out with is to just not upgrade at all. So in that scenario that happens millions of times a year what MS does is LOSE a $50 sale. A sale they will never make up.
 
heatlesssun said:
The Venue 8 Pro weighs 13 ounces is a third on inch thick and gets around 8 to 10 hours of battery life. With the 64GB model and a 64 GB microSD card, 128 GB of total storage in something this portable is better than many might think. I've got full Office 2013 Pro installed along with Visual Studio Ultimate and number of other desktop apps along with 100+ modern apps. and I still have over 40GB free total. Sure more would be better but for an 8" tablet it packs a wallop and it's pretty inexpensive. It's the best cheap PC device I've ever owned.
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I think I'm probably not the sort of person that the device is targeted, but I'd love to see a version that's thicker so it can use a 2.5 inch HDD and they can ues the extra thickness to maybe add battery capacity and make the battery externally removable/replacable. That'd be awesome because 128 GB is okay for some stuff, but I really would want more storage space. 500 GB would be enough, but I'd really prefer 1 TB like I can in a laptop or netbook and doing that with solid state memory is still kind of expensive at the moment.

That and there's the thing with me really preferring to have a keyboard attached all the time and having the screen hold itself up with the keyboard held flat under it so I can use it on my lap to type. Meh, I'll just eventually get a 2120 Latitude netbook as an upgrade from the 2100 when they get a little cheaper on ebay or someplace else. $50 plus shipping is enough to spend on a computer. I have cat food and other stuff like nice clothes and shoes to buy that are a lot more important than a computer.
 
Ur_Mom said:
Give me a user swappable SSD and a way to upgrade RAM, and I'd be all over that machine.

But, the Dell has SD storage, doesn't it? Add another 64 GB. It's just a simple tablet. That in addition to online storage, you should be good. You aren't putting on a ton of porn (if you are, look into Plex for streaming it from your 16 TB NAS porn storage pool).
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I just have a lot of PDF books, music, and random junk that I've kinda collected over time that I would really like to keep on the thingey that I'm carrying around with me. I completely admit that a hard drive is not nearly as shake and drop proof as solid state stuff, but meh...I wanna keep my stuff with me and I like being able to not have to worry about getting a connection to someplace to have a huge library of things to read.

Maybe I should look into this porn thing...though I don't really get it. I'm not a very visual person so it's kinda just meh to me. Now a good story about a relationship with sticky details...that's a whole other thing. :D
 
heatlesssun said:
Why not? It would allow them more margin on the cheapest of devices.



Yes and no. These little 2 GB/32 GB Bay Trail devices are actually capable of quite a lot for the money. Sure on the cheapest of hardware these specs are high but these specs are not at all ridiculous for mobile OS devices.
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I never said Anton about being incapable, I own a venue 8 pro, love it, but ms should continue to skim the os down for these devices, which they are doing, just not very fast.
 
rudy said:
What is MSs biggest enemy right now? Oh its the vast amount of people who will NOT upgrade to windows 8. Lets be honest those OEMs are going to buy windows no matter what to put on a new machine. But consumers have a choice, a choice to not upgrade at all especially when its going to cost them $100 to $200, and tech savvy people who build their own machines have a choice to pick another OS.
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Upgrades just aren't that big a part of Windows license sales, new devices by far is how versions of Windows get distributed. Would there be more upgrades with cheaper pricing, I'm sure, but it probably wouldn't be that significant.

rudy said:
By giving those people the WORST possible pricing they are reaping what they sow. Creating problems with old OSes that wont die like windows XP that they have to keep supporting over and over. In EVERY other segment we have a word for when its cheaper to replace an item then fix it or upgrade it, its called totaled. MS can never seem to understand that when an average consumer walks into best buy and is faced with $200 for a retail copy of an OS their machine is totaled and its cheaper to get a new one with a $50 OS from an OEM, but the logic tons if not most consumers come out with is to just not upgrade at all. So in that scenario that happens millions of times a year what MS does is LOSE a $50 sale. A sale they will never make up.
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A person could have upgraded from XP to Windows 8 for $40 from the convenience of their home. The opportunity to get Windows for significantly less than normal retail always exists. Ultimately though the success of Windows, at least for OEMs, has nothing to do with upgrade sales. And indeed for Microsoft right now, they have a vested interest in getting people to use Windows tablets and touch devices.
 
heatlesssun said:
Upgrades just aren't that big a part of Windows license sales, new devices by far is how versions of Windows get distributed. Would there be more upgrades with cheaper pricing, I'm sure, but it probably wouldn't be that significant.
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lol you are right and I just told you a big reason why.

So if upgrades are not that big of a deal how about MS not worry about gouging people for them. That is my point. Everyone says this is not some big cash cow. No its not, yet ironically it is a huge scar on PR for MS, because most people who bash MS point to the ludicrous price of a retail copy that is not on sale.

The have a chance to make a real change and it wont cost them hardly anything, they should take it. And now is a great time to do that.
 
And if it isn't clear yet TONS of people now days are not only choosing not to upgrade windows they are choosing not to upgrade their PC at all and instead skip it and make due with a mobile device powered by Google or Apple. Even gamers a strong hold of MS are starting to stand on shaky ground. MS should be kissing the asses of gamers and DIY people, these are the guys who convince other people of what to buy. You get me to like windows 8? Guess what you make 15+ sales a year on a single person who doesn't even work in the industry.
 
rudy said:
The have a chance to make a real change and it wont cost them hardly anything, they should take it. And now is a great time to do that.
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My point is would a $50 price for Windows really make that big of a change in upgrade sales? Look at the ton of people that say that they are perfectly happy with Windows XP.
 
rudy said:
MS should be kissing the asses of gamers and DIY people, these are the guys who convince other people of what to buy. You get me to like windows 8? Guess what you make 15+ sales a year on a single person who doesn't even work in the industry.
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There's some truth to what you're saying I believe but if the effect were that great I think there'd be a lot more Linux desktop users out there.
 
There is a large user base that installs windows for "free" anyways, give them a legal alternative and I bet they would jump at the opportunity.
 
GotNoRice said:
I'm just wondering who this is targeted toward?

People who buy pre-built computers are just going to use whatever OS their system comes with, and even if it comes with 7, "upgrading" to 8 will likely be too complicated for them. Plus, who would want to upgrade from a full version of 7 to a version of 8 that makes you watch ads?

If someone builds their own system, they likely are already getting their windows OS for "free" and likely wouldn't tolerate ads in their OS anyway.
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Gonna have to say your pirate comment there is a minority view.

Tons of people stay legit with their OS.

If you cant afford the OS, you don't need the upgrade...

And btw... Apple's Mavericks was free... with no ads. Crazy I know...
 
jmilcher said:
And btw... Apple's Mavericks was free... with no ads. Crazy I know...
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Hardware company compared to mainly software company, yea tell me again how that's a valid comparison? Love when people try to compare them in that respect, lol.

While this might get a few people on board I just dont see it grabbing many. Mom and pop aren't gonna give a shit even with it being free, don't fix whats not broken, no matter the OS version.
 
I'll give it a spin for free, I'll even post a positive review even if I don't mean it :)
 
Uvaman said:
I am telling you the solution to all MS problems would have been to have metro be the desktop background.. you know, where you normally would fill it up with static Icons you would have the metro UI.
If installed on a non-touch screen programs would be windowed even if launched from metro, if touch is in use then no windows if launched from the metro desktop.
This is how windows 8 should have been from the start.. metro would still be shoved in everyone's throat like they wanted, but people would still have the start and the windows MS perfected with windows 7
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Installing startisback will get you exactly that.
 
BBA said:
Installing startisback will get you exactly that.
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shoot lifetime license is 2.99.. I might upgrade my main desktop afterall.

As I have used a windows 8 tablet more and more.. and tried it on keyboard and mouse (tablet great!, Key/mouse = frustration) I am left in complete awe at what a stupid decision MS made.. How did this stupid choice came out to be with such a good rock solid OS on their hands.. man, living a bubble I guess...
they now have consider offering for free? WTH?
 
Uvaman said:
As I have used a windows 8 tablet more and more.. and tried it on keyboard and mouse (tablet great!, Key/mouse = frustration) I am left in complete awe at what a stupid decision MS made.. How did this stupid choice came out to be with such a good rock solid OS on their hands.. man, living a bubble I guess...
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More like realizing that the market for computing devices was changing and trying to incorporate changes in Windows that would make it work better with a growing tablet market while not so worried about the shrinking new desktop/laptop market. The right idea but poorly executed at first though it has improved substantially with 8.1 and now Update 1. I use 8.1 with touch and keyboard and mouse, nothing really frustrating about it with either UI when you figure out how to use it effectively.
 
Uvaman said:
shoot lifetime license is 2.99.. I might upgrade my main desktop afterall.

As I have used a windows 8 tablet more and more.. and tried it on keyboard and mouse (tablet great!, Key/mouse = frustration) I am left in complete awe at what a stupid decision MS made.. How did this stupid choice came out to be with such a good rock solid OS on their hands.. man, living a bubble I guess...
they now have consider offering for free? WTH?
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Heck, I even put the start button on my Surface Pro after upgrade to 8.1, works really well as a desktop with the regular start button. Heck, I never even use the metro interface on it except to show other people how it works.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
I think I'm probably not the sort of person that the device is targeted, but I'd love to see a version that's thicker so it can use a 2.5 inch HDD and they can ues the extra thickness to maybe add battery capacity and make the battery externally removable/replacable. That'd be awesome because 128 GB is okay for some stuff, but I really would want more storage space. 500 GB would be enough, but I'd really prefer 1 TB like I can in a laptop or netbook and doing that with solid state memory is still kind of expensive at the moment.
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You can get tablet/convertible PCs which make those trade-offs. Battery life isn't as good, and would only get worse with a rotating HDD installed. Price is higher too.

I'm not sure those are specs many people want.
 
pxc said:
You can get tablet/convertible PCs which make those trade-offs. Battery life isn't as good, and would only get worse with a rotating HDD installed. Price is higher too.

I'm not sure those are specs many people want.
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It's simply a matter of bulk versus capability. I'm perfectly content with having a 13 ounce 128 GB total storage device as the thing I take everywhere, especially since such a device doesn't cost that much and has access to data on my local network, even without using a 3rd party cloud.
 
heatlesssun said:
It's simply a matter of bulk versus capability. I'm perfectly content with having a 13 ounce 128 GB total storage device as the thing I take everywhere, especially since such a device doesn't cost that much and has access to data on my local network, even without using a 3rd party cloud.
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This.
 
03grandam said:
Hardware company compared to mainly software company, yea tell me again how that's a valid comparison? Love when people try to compare them in that respect, lol.

While this might get a few people on board I just dont see it grabbing many. Mom and pop aren't gonna give a shit even with it being free, don't fix whats not broken, no matter the OS version.
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Thats a valid point. My only point was, it is possible.
 
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