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Microsoft being sued over X360
- Thread starter ComputerBox34
- Start date
Oh for fucks sake..... approx 3% of the first version of a console have this problem and he's sueing because.... He knows something they don't? He can design a more thermal efficent PSU? He knows the board layout of the 360 enough to warrant that MS should be sued?
Wow, I think i'l go sue Dell cause their 2405f's had backlight issues and since rectified the problem.
Wow, I think i'l go sue Dell cause their 2405f's had backlight issues and since rectified the problem.
IceWind said:Oh for fucks sake..... approx 3% of the first version of a console have this problem and he's sueing because.... He knows something they don't? He can design a more thermal efficent PSU? He knows the board layout of the 360 enough to warrant that MS should be sued?
Wow, I think i'l go sue Dell cause their 2405f's had backlight issues and since rectified the problem.
Wasnt it the 2005's that had the backlight issue?
Anyways, I understand what you are saying, I think when the PS3 comes out, im going to find a problem with it, and sue Sony
Microsoft even said they will gladly replace some of the defective units out there, I dont understand why he is bitching about it.
Ballz2TheWallz
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how can someone get away with such a stupid reason, no one sued sony after 4years of defective drives
ameoba said:
Not really, when you looke at the manufactured and sold amounts. Unlike*cough* PS2 drive problems anyone? Now that was a widespread problem that I dealt with when I worked at Gamestop. I swear to God, I had at least a phone call and a visit with "My Blue discs don't work, DVD's are skipping, it won't play PS one games, blah, blah* Customers were pissed that they had to PAY sony to fix their systems at a cost of almost the damn system!!!
You know what Sony's response was after years of this? "Fuck you, we are right, you are wrong, deal with it*
I'll never buy another Sony product again.
IceWind said:Oh for fucks sake..... approx 3% of the first version of a console have this problem and he's sueing because.... He knows something they don't? He can design a more thermal efficent PSU? He knows the board layout of the 360 enough to warrant that MS should be sued?
Wow, I think i'l go sue Dell cause their 2405f's had backlight issues and since rectified the problem.
Actually I could design a more thermally efficient PSU.
A mate got hold of one (somehow I dunno, prolly blew the store manager) and I felt and looked over the PSU and basically they were lazy.
They took a line-fed XFMR and directly transformed it downto a more manageble potential and (couldn't crack it open) but guessing did some very inneficient linear regulation.
Shite that thing gets hot!!!! I have a 100kW converter at work (that I designed btw) that gets no where near as hot as that pile of shite does. So before you start chanting down some Whoever MS contracter to design the PSU did a shite job and it can easilty be designed better
Draax said:
Yes it can.
The power supply definitly uses a main XFMR (only way to get it so heavy) and they are basically lumps of iron (laminated as well) and that costs alot!!!
Take a rectifier, a 500V FET a smaller, higher freq XFMR and you can get a 10th of the weight in a 10th of the size (which straight away save on shipping costs) and it is alot more efficient and pricewize it is comparable
Please get yr facts straight before knocking a field that you know nothing abt
eeyrjmr said:
You expect them to save costs on shipping, LOL, now that reeks of someone who knows not of what they speak. With MS shipping in such mass quantities do you honestly think a decrease in weight is going to effect their bottom line.
Oh .. in addition, I am an Industrial designer .... get your facts straight.
Draax said:
Yes it will. In the reduction in size and weigth of their product they can then ship alot more for the same shipping cost. Extra weight requries extra fuel to be burnt to move something from A to B
Oh .. in addition, I am a Power Engineer designer .... get your facts straight.
Draax said:
While I think it's ridiculous that there's a lawsuit for it (even if the defect rate is higher than the 3%, which I think it clearly is), and I also agree that the PS2 had far more issues with... I can't believe that you, as an industrial designer, can't see that every single ounce that MS saves on shipping weight can save them millions of dollars, potentially. Every single penny per system counts, and counts for a hell of a lot - especially in the long run.
Shakezilla
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IceWind said:
SONY FIXED THEM FOR FREE unless you got a prick it was extremly easy to get sony to fix it for free. So dont spread filth and keep it on topic.
The guy is dumb 1. they are fixing them for absolutly free 2. He has no case 3. even if he did have a case a billion lawyers >>>>>> the lawyer this guy can afford
eeyrjmr said:
Shipping weight would matter, if they were shipping small quantities of XBOX360s, but we all know this is not the case. Do any of you have any experience with shipping large quantities of items? This sort of shipping arangment is typical done for a flat shipping rate.
Draax said:
Actually I do. The products I work with are Aerospace products (last was for the A380) and yes ther eusually is a flat land-based shipping fee as you pay a haulier a flat-rate.
BUT for for sea and air it is a different issue all together.
And my point abt the PSU if you read my POST again was a better designed PSU would reduces the weight as well as the SIZE
since the PSU is pretty much hte same size as the Xbox-360, even a reduction of 50% would mean you could ship 50% more Xbox-360 for the same container volume
He is right, Draax. But about more things than one. The PSU in the X360 is one of the big culprits of the >3% issues that people are having, and there wouldn't be the need to string it up in midair and blow cool air at it had they designed it better. Does it make the system bad? No. But it certainly is pissing a lot of people off. With the issues that they had on the XBox1 with the power cord/supply, you would've thought they would spend some more time on this one.
Sorry but... that was a dumb statement.Draax said:
As posted above, every penny counts, especially when you're dealing in mass quanitities.
Why do you think gas is 1.999 per gallon, and not 1.99?
Why do you think the virus in Office Space (should have) worked so well
Why do you think American Airlines saved $40,000 in one year by removing one olive from the salads offered in first class meals?
This is really basic Economics, which is offered at any community college. For maybe $300, you could save a lot of money and learn at the same time. Maybe you should look into it.
DudeItsMe said:Sorry but... that was a dumb statement.
As posted above, every penny counts, especially when you're dealing in mass quanitities.
Why do you think gas is 1.999 per gallon, and not 1.99?
Why do you think the virus in Office Space (should have) worked so well
Why do you think American Airlines saved $40,000 in one year by removing one olive from the salads offered in first class meals?
This is really basic Economics, which is offered at any community college. For maybe $300, you could save a lot of money and learn at the same time. Maybe you should look into it.
Once again "FLAT RATE", on mass shipments.
Draax said:
Show's you how much you know abt engineering. It is a know fact that English skills are at the bottom of any engineers ability.
Don't believe me if you want, you dont have access to our internal server so I cannot post our organisation tree. But you cannot argue with what I have posted, which should be enough to show you I know what I am talking abt
Its funny how now you have been proven wrong you are starting to get all offensive towards someone that is trying to correct you.
The Xbox-360 suffers from one major problem and that is the PSU, with summer on the way that problem is only going to become more apparent.
Is this law-suit going to go anywhere? NO
Could MS done something better with hte PSU? YES
eeyrjmr said:
Show's you how much you know abt engineering. It is a know fact that English skills are at the bottom of any engineers ability.
Don't believe me if you want, you dont have access to our internal server so I cannot post our organisation tree. But you cannot argue with what I have posted, which should be enough to show you I know what I am talking abt
Its funny how now you have been proven wrong you are starting to get all offensive towards someone that is trying to correct you.
The Xbox-360 suffers from one major problem and that is the PSU, with summer on the way that problem is only going to become more apparent.
Is this law-suit going to go anywhere? NO
Could MS done something better with hte PSU? YES
Proven wrong ... lol you so much as acknowledged I was correct, by stating that mass shipments = flat rate.
Its not like MS is paying for space in a truck, which has other products in it.
Draax said:
40' containers have two limiting factors associated with them.
1) volume
2) weight limit (~28tonnes)
if one or both are exceeded you need another container which cost money.
Reduce an items weight and volume you can get more into one shipping container.
Any you expect us to believe you are an Industrial Englineer
eeyrjmr said:
A reduction in size/weight, most often means you need different materials / components to accomodate the change. Factor that into your "basic economics"
What are the key factors in heat disapation ? Materials and Size, a greater size will disapate heat much better then a small part, but that is basic engineering ... which you claim to know so much about.
Draax said:
And as I already stated earlier IF they designed the PSU propperly (is a SMPS-based) from the beginning the cost difference would be nothing BUT the weight and size saving would be emense.
a redesign and recall will cost alot.
You expect us to believe you are and Industrial Engineer when you cant even read/follow a thread for more then two reply's
eeyrjmr said:
And as I already stated earlier IF they designed the PSU propperly (is a SMPS-based) from the beginning the cost difference would be nothing BUT the weight and size saving would be emense.
a redesign and recall will cost alot.
You expect us to believe you are and Industrial Engineer when you cant even read/follow a thread for more then two reply's
There is no recall, this has been stated numerous times. So, there is no redesign and no added cost.
I find it very convenient that you did not respond to my comments about thermal dissipation. Would a large radiator, disapate more heat then a smaller one ? What are the complaints about the power supply ? It is large and it heats up.
Put two and two together.
I wouldn't criticise people for not paying attention when you post "Industrial Engineer", when I clearly posted "Industrial Designer".
You are going to make the PSU smaller how ? Use a better material like copper which is more expensive ?
Draax said:
When the Hell did I say there was going to be a recall!!!!
I stated IF they designed the PSU correctly from the beginning there would be no extra cost.
IF they were to implement a new PSU now, there would be.
Have a look into SMPS, they are an extreamly mature tech. The heaviest part of the Xbox-360 PSU is the line-freq XFMR. The size and weight of an XFMR are related to the power-handling and the operating freq.
For the PSU to operate at 50/60Hz it has to be big,heavy and expensive.
Rectify, and chop at a higher freq (10kHz->100kGz) means you can reduce the size,weight and cost of the XFMR conciderably. No extra funky materials. Aluminum can be used
please do some research into power technology before you try to slate my entire field.
As to would a larger radiator dissipate more heat, YES simple thermal dynamics, IF the heat-sink had addiquate fins to increase its surface area it can remove alot more heat then a smaller one. BUT such a thing comes at the expens of weight and size.
SMPS reduce that need.
You know what the compaints abt the PSU are, you are responding to a thread abt a court-case abt the complaints.
Look you argued your point at hte start and you were corrected, you are not letting it go that you are wrong and you are just making yrself look foolish
Erasmus354
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eeyrjmr said:
Show's you how much you know abt engineering. It is a know fact that English skills are at the bottom of any engineers ability.
Don't believe me if you want, you dont have access to our internal server so I cannot post our organisation tree. But you cannot argue with what I have posted, which should be enough to show you I know what I am talking abt
Its funny how now you have been proven wrong you are starting to get all offensive towards someone that is trying to correct you.
The Xbox-360 suffers from one major problem and that is the PSU, with summer on the way that problem is only going to become more apparent.
Is this law-suit going to go anywhere? NO
Could MS done something better with hte PSU? YES
That my friend is where you are wrong. One of an engineers most valuable assets is the ability to communciate efficiently and effectively with his or her peers. This includes a strong grasp of the english language and everything that goes along with that: grammar, spelling, punctuation, etc...
I am a Computer Engineering student and I can tell you that communication skills are no laughing matter. In fact the number one reason why an engineer wont get hired for most jobs is a lack of communication skills.
I fail to see how you have proven MS wrong in anything they did. You claim you can make a PSU that is 10% the size and weight of the current model. The last time I checked I have never seen a 200W PSU that small. If you could kindly link me to the specs and pictures of a 200W PSU that is half an inch thick, an inch wide, and 2 inches long I would be happy to concede.
In the meantime could you please try to not embarass the rest of us future/current engineers by stating, wrongly, that we dont have good communication skills?
EDIT : I wonder if Microsoft voids your warranty if you bring a lawsuit against them? Or if they will still give you free overnight shipping both ways
Erasmus354 said:
point abt communication skills. Its just in our office (16eng) all of us have extrealy crap (written) english skills. We can write tech documents very well BUT waffly management docu we all sticnk at
I havn't proven MS wrong in anything they have done. I have stated that they are using a line-freq XFMR for main transformation which is in-efficient in power,wieght and size. They chose that route for a reason, I wouldn't of
As to sizes, have a look at a 200W 50/60Hz mains XFMR to get an idea, ill will start searching now
Draax said:
Well you shunn copper,
Ther are only two conductors that rreally can be used.
Copper, Aluminium.
So if you start to slate me over choosing Ally, You have to back yourslef for shunning copper, cause Copper is always my first choice.