Micro ATX gaming build - comments?

[chem]

I'm ordering new parts next week, how does this look? I think more gamers should build Ivy Xeon machines.

SilverStone SST-PS07B Black Steel / Plastic with Aluminum Accent MicroATX Mini Tower Computer Case
ASRock H77 Pro4-M LGA 1155 Intel H77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard
GIGABYTE GV-N66TOC-2GD GeForce GTX 660 Ti 2GB 192-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
KINGWIN STR-500 500W ATX 12V v2.2, EPS 12V v2.91 and SSI EPS 12V v2.92 SLI Ready 80 PLUS PLATINUM Certified Modular Active
Intel Xeon E3-1240 V2 Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 69W Quad-Core Server Processor BX80637E31240V2
(2x) Kingston HyperX 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 Desktop Memory Model KHX1600C9D3K2/8G
SanDisk Extreme SDSSDX-480G-G25 2.5" 480GB SATA III Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
ASUS Xonar DSX 7.1 Channels PCI Express x1 Interface Audio Card
Antec TrueQuiet 120 120mm Case Fan
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=20105285

PS07 case is a Micro ATX case and the extra 120mm fan is for a rear push fan (case comes with 2x front 120mm pull fans). H77 chipset board which officially supports the Ivy Bridge Xeon E3-1240V2 and has linux-friendly networking and audio chips. The Gigabyte 660 Ti is supposed to be the quietest 660 Ti out there (perhaps equal with the MSI) and is factory OC'd (also like the MSI). 500W PSU should be sufficient and this version is fanless, modular, and well-reviewed by HardOCP. Ivy E3-1240V2 CPU gets you i7 power at i5 price. 16GB of RAM on the ASRock's approved memory list. SSD is one of the best reviewed by storagereview.com and also only $0.80/GB. Xonar DSX is something I think might be nice but could do without (anyone use this card?).

Here's the replies to the SFF HardOCP questions:


1. What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming, and things less intensive than gaming.
2. What's your budget? $1500 USD including shipping, not flexible.
3. Where do you live? Colorado (microcenter nearby).
4. What exact parts do you need for that budget? The stuff I listed. I'll re-use a DVD for install and a HDD for extra storage. Have access to OS already.
6. What specific features do you need in a motherboard? USB/SATA 3, PCIe for 660 Ti, Xeon E3-1240V2 support.
7. What resolution output do you need? 1080p
8. Does this system need to fit into a particular space? No but I want something smaller than full ATX.
9. How comfortable are you with custom case design/modification and electrical wiring? I'm an engineer, very comfortable and full access.
10. How important is the noise/silence of this sytem? Quiet is nice, silent is not required.
11. How mobile does this system need to be? Weight/size is nice but no straps/handles/etc.
12. Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? Yes Win8 64-bit.
13. When do you plan on building/buying the PC? In a week or two.

 

[chem]

bump. 100 views, no comments? sad panda.

Anyone had bad experiences with SF-2281 SSD controllers? I heard their write speeds for incompressible data are not good compared to the latest from Samsung, et al.

 

[Alai]

It's kind of unclear what you want. Why are you getting the extra fan cables? Why are you going to install a server-grade CPU for a gaming machine? You're not even going to use ECC memory...

What do you mean the Xeon gets your i7 power at i5 price? If you're just gaming or doing tasks even less intensive, then why the hell do you even need i7 features like hyperthreading and such? Are you just going to use stock CPU cooler/fan? And by picking the Xeon, does that mean you're not going to overclock?

It's unclear what your goals are judging from your current pick of components.

 

[FourPlay]

OP, why do you think more gamers should be using server CPUs? Have you used one for gaming before? Have you seen benchmarks to prove they are superior? I am very interested.

 

[Dangman]

As Alai pointed out, could you elaborate more on your "Ivy E3-1240V2 CPU gets you i7 power at i5 price."? It doesn't make sense: That CPU costs $295 right now on Newegg nor is it available from Microcenter. AT its current $295 price, it's only $5 cheaper than the Core i7 3770 and still $100 more than some Core i5 CPUs. Did you mean the Xeon E3 1245V2? That's the cheapest Xeon with HT available from MC AFAIK. In any case, since you're only gaming, you realy don't need the HT feature of some of the Xeon and all of the i7 CPUs. You would be fine with the i5 as is. You would save a bit more money considering that there are $40 bundle deals with the Core i5 3570K and Core i7 3770K.

RAM wise, despite being on the support list, that RAM isn't a good choice since it's rated at 1.65V when Intel reps recommend 1.5V for their CPUs. I recommend this RAM instead:
$40 - Corsair Vengeance CML8GX3M2A1600C9 2 x 4GB DDR3 1600 RAM

SSD wise, not only is that Sandisk a Sandforce based SSD which means its performance and quality isn't as high as it says it is, it's not even well priced: Right now for $10 more you can get 22GB more storage and higher quality with the Crucial M4 512GB SSD:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148444

 

[willis936]

The memory controller can handle 1.65v without issue much like vcore can handle 1.4. The memory voltage is a myth. Overvolting is as old as over clocking.

 

[Dangman]

The memory controller can handle 1.65v without issue much like vcore can handle 1.4. The memory voltage is a myth. Overvolting is as old as over clocking.

If you can provide a document straight from Intel stating so, I can't accept your statement as fact.

In any case, dude, the 1.65V RAM costs the same as the 1.5V RAM. So what's the point in getting the 1.65V RAM in the first place when lower voltage RAM costs the same and is likely to hurt the CPU in the long run?

 

[chem]

As Alai pointed out, could you elaborate more on your "Ivy E3-1240V2 CPU gets you i7 power at i5 price."? It doesn't make sense: That CPU costs $295 right now on Newegg nor is it available from Microcenter. AT its current $295 price, it's only $5 cheaper than the Core i7 3770 and still $100 more than some Core i5 CPUs. Did you mean the Xeon E3 1245V2? That's the cheapest Xeon with HT available from MC AFAIK. In any case, since you're only gaming, you realy don't need the HT feature of some of the Xeon and all of the i7 CPUs. You would be fine with the i5 as is. You would save a bit more money considering that there are $40 bundle deals with the Core i5 3570K and Core i7 3770K.

RAM wise, despite being on the support list, that RAM isn't a good choice since it's rated at 1.65V when Intel reps recommend 1.5V for their CPUs. I recommend this RAM instead:
$40 - Corsair Vengeance CML8GX3M2A1600C9 2 x 4GB DDR3 1600 RAM

SSD wise, not only is that Sandisk a Sandforce based SSD which means its performance and quality isn't as high as it says it is, it's not even well priced: Right now for $10 more you can get 22GB more storage and higher quality with the Crucial M4 512GB SSD:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148444

I'm going to try and reply to everyone's comments while only quoting one post. Thank you for the replies, I appreciate them.

Re: the Xeon. Benchmarks (and specs) put its performance at about the same as the i7-3770. I do not plan to OC, so a Xeon and H77 chipset is fine (and hopefully the stock HSF is also fine, unless I wanted something quieter). When I spec'd the build, there was an instant rebate on the 1240V2 which made its price noticeably cheaper than the 3770. Now, to get around i5 price I'd need to drop to the E3-1230V2 instead (.1GHz difference). I like the extra L3 cache the Xeons and i7 have as compared to i5's, and you can see the difference in some benchmarks (like techreport's skyrim cpu benchmark), so I think it helps the system a bit. It's basically like an i7, but costs less than an i7.

The RAM discussion is quite interesting. I've never heard about the 1.65V vs 1.5V issue before. I really wanted to pick RAM from the mobo's supported memory list, so there would be no surprises. There weren't any 8GB DDR3-1600 chips on there which newegg had in stock, so I went with this Kingston 4x4 setup as I consider Kingston a reputable brand. I could reconsider if I really should not be using this RAM, but even in this thread there are conflicting replies. If there was a risk of the RAM damaging the CPU over the long run, why would it be on the approved memory list?

Posts about sandforce here and elsewhere have convinced me to reconsider the SSD. I will probably find an alternative.

 

[Dangman]

Re: the Xeon. Benchmarks (and specs) put its performance at about the same as the i7-3770. I do not plan to OC, so a Xeon and H77 chipset is fine (and hopefully the stock HSF is also fine, unless I wanted something quieter). When I spec'd the build, there was an instant rebate on the 1240V2 which made its price noticeably cheaper than the 3770. Now, to get around i5 price I'd need to drop to the E3-1230V2 instead (.1GHz difference). I like the extra L3 cache the Xeons and i7 have as compared to i5's, and you can see the difference in some benchmarks (like techreport's skyrim cpu benchmark), so I think it helps the system a bit. It's basically like an i7, but costs less than an i7.

All right the E3-1230 V2 is a fair compromise. Only problem now is finding a mobo that'll support it.

The RAM discussion is quite interesting. I've never heard about the 1.65V vs 1.5V issue before. I really wanted to pick RAM from the mobo's supported memory list, so there would be no surprises. There weren't any 8GB DDR3-1600 chips on there which newegg had in stock, so I went with this Kingston 4x4 setup as I consider Kingston a reputable brand. I could reconsider if I really should not be using this RAM, but even in this thread there are conflicting replies. If there was a risk of the RAM damaging the CPU over the long run, why would it be on the approved memory list?

Because CPU longevity wasn't something that AsRock was looking at when they were testing the RAM. From the forum's Intel's rep mouth:

With the 2nd generation Intel® Core™ processors only support DDR 3 at 1066/1333 and now on some 1600; that isnt what I am hearing as causing the issue in almost every case is that they are running the memory at 1.65v +. The 2nd generation Intel Core processor only support memory at 1.5v ±5% (1.425v to 1.575v) anything over this has a chance of damaging the processor memory controller.

Personally the performance increase of anything over 1600 doesnt seems to be worth the extra cost.

Personally I ignore the RAM support list since they don't test all of the RAM out there and the RAM they do test often sub-optimal in many ways like price, availability, voltage, etc. The likelihood of running into RAM incompatibility is very low from my experience.

 

[Alai]

If you're not going to OC, I would just get whatever RAM is cheapest but rated at 1.5v or below. As Danny said, compatibility is almost a non-issue these days. You have about the same probability of a CPU chip (I've never ever run into one since Core Duo line).

 

[WiSK]

If there was a risk of the RAM damaging the CPU over the long run, why would it be on the approved memory list?

Just to clarify even further. With normal use that Kingston RAM won't damage the CPU. It's on the compatibility list because if you just plug it in, it'll pick a 1.5V setting from the SPD list and work fine. Just that it won't run at rated speed, so if you want it to run the rated 1600-CL9 you'll have to overvolt it, either via XMP or explicitly. That's why Danny recommended you some DDR3 which will reach 1600-CL9 at 1.5V out of the box.

 

[chem]

I updated the newegg wishlist link with the following changes:

CPU: downgrade to E3-1230V2
RAM: change to Mushkin CAS9 1.5V 2x8
GPU: upgrade to EVGA 670 GTX 02G-P4-2678-KR (factory OC, exhausts out rear)
SSD: change to OCZ Vertex 4 "M" as in micron NAND 512GB

SSD was a really hard choice. The Plextor M5 Pro and Samsung 840 Pro are the leading alternatives, but their 512GB variants are just way more expensive than the OCZ. I've seen some benchmarks of the OCZ Vertex 4 M version and speeds are still great, nearly the same as Intel NAND. Vertex 4 and its custom Indilinx/Marvell controller seems to actually be an ok SSD, not like Vertex 3.

edit: forgot to mention, but I also removed the Xonar DSX (which put $ towards the 670). I will give the ALC892 a try before getting a sound card.

 

[Mousemagician]

I have the OCZ Vertex 4 128GB and it's okay.
I purchased it for $80 free shipping in the egg during a crazy sale.
I would never purchased this new Indilinx unless at this price.
IMO, you cannot go wrong with the Crucial M4 512GB that now is at $389.99 on the egg
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148444
Constant high speed for compressible and uncompressible data.
I have a Crucial C300 128Gb and I love it!
The M4 512GB will not be as fast as the Samsung 830 or the new coming 840 pro, but is unbeatable at this price.

 

[Dangman]

I third the recommendation for the Crucial M4 on account of OCZ's poor customer support.

Also do note that you will need Windows 8 Pro if you want to use more than 16GB of RAM.

 

[Mousemagician]

I third the recommendation for the Crucial M4 on account of OCZ's poor customer support.

Also do note that you will need Windows 8 Pro if you want to use more than 16GB of RAM.

Right!
A comparison based on AS SSD, that shows the worst case scenario for SSDs:

OCZ Vertex 512GB

and Crucial 4 512GB

I mainly look at 4K values to make a comparison.
Although the Vertex 4 seems a little better than the M4, you will not see any difference in your use.
The fact is that when you spend almost $400, you want the most reliable piece of hardware.
The Crucial M4 has a really good reputation, while the Vertex 4 is still relatively young.
I don't have a direct experience returning to any of these companies, but I would feel more comfortable with Crucial than with OCZ in case of return.

 

[chem]

I may just roll with the Vertex 4; the controller is similar to the one in OCZ Octane drives and I am reading very few negative things about the V4. Even with Micron NAND it will handily outperform the Crucial M4, at the same price. It is good to hear about these things though. Maybe if newegg/amazon has a special on either, price will be the deciding factor. Thanks for the help, guys. I'll keep reading until I order.

 

[Dangman]

Oh are you using Windows 8 Pro or Home Premium?

 

[chem]

I'll be using W8 Pro w/ media center pack