Media Server Build

[PnoT]

I've been lurking on the [H] forums and have found many solutions to problems and great recommendations over the years and was hoping to get some advice on my current Media Server project.

Server Role will require:

1. The ability to stream 2-5 BluRay movies at once in separate rooms in the house.
2. A large storage array with room for expansion and ease of use with management tools that don't suck.
3. Virtual Machines ( Domain controller and probably Exchange ) Server 2008 R2 with Hyper-V (free)
4. PlayOn service
5. Newsgroup & Torrent Services
6. Burn, Rip, and Video encoding
7. Remote management of Array and Server


Here is a short parts list that I've compiled so far and any insight on these parts or recommendations would be appreciated.

Case: Antech Twelve Hundred Black Steel Case http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129043
Motherboard: SuperMicro MDB-X8SIL-F-O http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182211
CPU: Intel Xeon X3430 Lynnfield http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117226
Memory: Kingston 4GB (2 sets for 8GB total) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139040
Drives: (6) Samsung EcoGreen F3 HD203WI 2TB 5400RPM http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152202 (These have been purchased already)


RAID Controller(s):
Adaptec 51245 http://www.adaptec.com/en-US/products/Controllers/Hardware/sas/performance/SAS-51245/ ( I can get this brand new from a friend for $350)
HighPoint 2314 x4 http://www.newegg.com/Product /Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816115036 $184
HighPoint 4320 x8 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816115056 $429
LSI MegaRaid 9260-8i 6gb http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816118105 $529
LSI MegaRaid 9260-4i 6gb http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816118107 $379
Areca ARC-1680i x8 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816151023 $649 OUCH
HP SAS Expander $250 (this coupled with a cheap card would be ideal i think)

As you can see the choice to go hardware RAID or software is where I'm having the most problem figuring out. I've seen posts on the really cheap sata controllers and software raid solutions but I haven't been convinced those will provide the throughput i need. I was thinking either RAID 5, 6, or 50 depending on which card or software solution i go with. I've also read good reports of ZFS but with my virtualization needs that's pretty much out the window.

 

[sub.mesa]

I've also read good reports of ZFS but with my virtualization needs that's pretty much out the window.

Why, really? If you build a dedicated NAS running ZFS, and export iSCSI system disks to virtualized OS on another system, that would work.

In cases where you do not want a dedicated NAS but actually a multi-purpose server/workstation, then ZFS is not that easy to get and likely not a good option. The only option would be to virtualize FreeBSD or OpenSolaris too and run all storage through there; but i've yet to see what the performance of such a setup brings and it would be an experimental setup, not really what you want.

But if you consider building a cheaper ZFS box that can use much cheaper hardware, the controller anyway, you can export CIFS, NFS and iSCSI to Windows-based systems. Only Windows 7 Ultimate supports NFS as far as i know, though.

On the other hand, having one system that does everything and just runs Windows may just be a lot simpler. Do what seems logical given your true priorities.

 

[Dangman]

Ditch the X3430 and go with the X3440 since the X3440 actually has HT support whereas the X3430 doesn't.

Personally not a fan of that case since there are roomier and equally cooling cases for less:
$90 - Cooler Master HAF 922 RC-922M-KKN1-GP ATX Case
$90 - Cooler Master HAF 922M RC-922M-KKN1-GP ATX Case
$110 - Lian Li PC-E8B ATX Case
$110 - Lian Li PC-7FN ATX Case
$130 - Cooler Master Storm Sniper ATX Case
$150 - Cooler Master HAF 932 RC-932-KKN1-GP ATX Case

If you do go the true hardware RAID route, make sure that the card actually supports your hard drives. Though Samsung and Hitachi do seem to have the least amount of support issues than WD or Seagate from what I can see.

I would recommend the true hardware RAID route in this case since you're using Windows 2K8 with Hyper-V as the host OS. Windows' software RAID tends to have pretty low performance and speed.

 

[PnoT]

Ditch the X3430 and go with the X3440 since the X3440 actually has HT support whereas the X3430 doesn't.

Personally not a fan of that case since there are roomier and equally cooling cases for less:
$90 - Cooler Master HAF 922 RC-922M-KKN1-GP ATX Case
$90 - Cooler Master HAF 922M RC-922M-KKN1-GP ATX Case
$110 - Lian Li PC-E8B ATX Case
$110 - Lian Li PC-7FN ATX Case
$130 - Cooler Master Storm Sniper ATX Case
$150 - Cooler Master HAF 932 RC-932-KKN1-GP ATX Case

If you do go the true hardware RAID route, make sure that the card actually supports your hard drives. Though Samsung and Hitachi do seem to have the least amount of support issues than WD or Seagate from what I can see.

I would recommend the true hardware RAID route in this case since you're using Windows 2K8 with Hyper-V as the host OS. Windows' software RAID tends to have pretty low performance and speed.

I must have missed the HT when comparing those CPUs earlier on Intels site so thanks for bringing that up! I went ahead and replaced the previous motherboard with this one because it has more PCIe slots and more of what I want. (avs member turned me onto this one).

SUPERMICRO MBD-X8SIA-F-O http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182235

I would love to put together a ZFS system but there are too many things that just don't fit into my build but i do hear great things about it.

The RAID card is driving me nuts and I can't figure out which one to go with. I'd love to get the adaptec but with some of their track records supporting 2TB drives I'm just not sure.

Looking over those cases showed most of them had room for just 4-5 drives... are there expansions that one can buy to put in more drives?

 

[mikesm]

I must have missed the HT when comparing those CPUs earlier on Intels site so thanks for bringing that up! I went ahead and replaced the previous motherboard with this one because it has more PCIe slots and more of what I want. (avs member turned me onto this one).

SUPERMICRO MBD-X8SIA-F-O http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182235

I would love to put together a ZFS system but there are too many things that just don't fit into my build but i do hear great things about it.

The RAID card is driving me nuts and I can't figure out which one to go with. I'd love to get the adaptec but with some of their track records supporting 2TB drives I'm just not sure.

Looking over those cases showed most of them had room for just 4-5 drives... are there expansions that one can buy to put in more drives?

This board is pretty fussy about the DRAM it can use, as most are with the XEON CPU's that support ECC. You should make sure the memory is compatible...

 

[PnoT]

This board is pretty fussy about the DRAM it can use, as most are with the XEON CPU's that support ECC. You should make sure the memory is compatible...

Yea that's what I've heard and the RAM is verified by a few members of another forum to work in the board. Thanks for the tip thou

 

[pjkenned]

Why, really? If you build a dedicated NAS running ZFS, and export iSCSI system disks to virtualized OS on another system, that would work.

In cases where you do not want a dedicated NAS but actually a multi-purpose server/workstation, then ZFS is not that easy to get and likely not a good option. The only option would be to virtualize FreeBSD or OpenSolaris too and run all storage through there; but i've yet to see what the performance of such a setup brings and it would be an experimental setup, not really what you want.

But if you consider building a cheaper ZFS box that can use much cheaper hardware, the controller anyway, you can export CIFS, NFS and iSCSI to Windows-based systems. Only Windows 7 Ultimate supports NFS as far as i know, though.

On the other hand, having one system that does everything and just runs Windows may just be a lot simpler. Do what seems logical given your true priorities.

I can answer this... OpenSolaris or FreeBSD in Hyper-V = :-/

It works, but speed wise, even using SSDs, is poor. Oh, and since you can't attach virtual SCSI drives without integration services (neither for OpenSolaris nor FreeBSD), you get stuck to one boot IDE drive + 3 more IDE drives + a legacy NIC. If you need something to be an iSCSI target, for something like an OS boot drive/ array, it works, but I would highly suggest not doing a Hyper-V ZFS installation.

 

[PnoT]

I can answer this... OpenSolaris or FreeBSD in Hyper-V = :-/

It works, but speed wise, even using SSDs, is poor. Oh, and since you can't attach virtual SCSI drives without integration services (neither for OpenSolaris nor FreeBSD), you get stuck to one boot IDE drive + 3 more IDE drives + a legacy NIC. If you need something to be an iSCSI target, for something like an OS boot drive/ array, it works, but I would highly suggest not doing a Hyper-V ZFS installation.

While the state of Integrated services continue to be built upon for Hyper-V I wouldn't be comfortable virtualizing my storage array. I use Hyper-V here at work exclusively and it's a wonderful product as long as you stick to a windows based OS.

 

[sub.mesa]

I can answer this... OpenSolaris or FreeBSD in Hyper-V = :-/

Just to be clear; i suggested a dedicated (meaning: non-virtualized) FreeBSD/OpenSolaris ZFS server that serves iSCSI images to virtualized (Windows?) systems. Why shouldn't that work? If your clients support iSCSI system disks and can boot form it, it should not matter the underlying filesystem is ZFS; the client will never know this.

 

[aCiD99]

Only RAID controller that should be considered is a Dell Perc 5i or 6i, I just recently went on a search for the best solution for 4x1.5TB in RAID 5, I bought a lot of cards, HighPoints they were shit.

Got the 5i, easy to setup, great Windows GUI, stupid fast, and I got it for $95 off ebay.

 

[PnoT]

Just to be clear; i suggested a dedicated (meaning: non-virtualized) FreeBSD/OpenSolaris ZFS server that serves iSCSI images to virtualized (Windows?) systems. Why shouldn't that work? If your clients support iSCSI system disks and can boot form it, it should not matter the underlying filesystem is ZFS; the client will never know this.

That would indeed works as we use iSCSI all the time to host LUNs to our Virtual Machines. The only problem is I'd be looking at building two machines instead of one in order to facilitate my VM, PlayOn, and other windows applications.

Only RAID controller that should be considered is a Dell Perc 5i or 6i, I just recently went on a search for the best solution for 4x1.5TB in RAID 5, I bought a lot of cards, HighPoints they were shit.

Got the 5i, easy to setup, great Windows GUI, stupid fast, and I got it for $95 off ebay.

I can tell you from first hand experience that the Perc 5/6 are really slow in a RAID 5 configuration. We are a Dell outfit, here at work, and 85% of our servers have Perc cards in them. Try running a RAID 5 array on a Dell controller and then one in a G5 or G6 HP machine... night and day difference in speed and versatility.

I appreciate your input and I'm not trying to flame but I wouldn't use one if someone gave it to me for free.

 

[pjkenned]

Perc 5/i's are certainly not too fast. Here was mine with 8x 1.5TB 7200rpm disks in Raid 5. Nowhere near the Adaptec 5805 speed wise nor even my Areca 1680LP.

BTW sub.mesa, the only reason I brought up Hyper-V is that the OP mentioned it. Hyper-V is great... for Windows OSes but not so much others.

 

[PnoT]

Perc 5/i's are certainly not too fast. Here was mine with 8x 1.5TB 7200rpm disks in Raid 5. Nowhere near the Adaptec 5805 speed wise nor even my Areca 1680LP.

BTW sub.mesa, the only reason I brought up Hyper-V is that the OP mentioned it. Hyper-V is great... for Windows OSes but not so much others.

Any recommendations on the controller to use? On your site i noticed you had an adaptec 31605 and I was thinking about either picking one of those up or the 51245. The 51245 does have an external port for use with another array if i need it in the future. The 5 series is supposed to be their flagship as well so I'm not quite sure between those 2 adapters.

 

[nitrobass24]

I would get an Areca over any of those other RAID cards.
I know its the most expensive but it has the best management.

It has out of band management via a web interface.

 

[PnoT]

I would get an Areca over any of those other RAID cards.
I know its the most expensive but it has the best management.

It has out of band management via a web interface.

I can get the adaptec's for $300/350 so I'm basically paying half price hmm

 

[Blue Fox]

Areca/Hitachi is the way to go and will save you a lot of headaches in the long run.

 

[pjkenned]

I'm not going to lie, Adaptec lets you manage multiple machines/ adapters from one client interface. It is pretty good for that one reason. That being said, I really like my Areca 1680LP too. Different ways to go about a similar task and both have advantages.

If you can get the 51245 for $350... that is a steal. It is much faster than the Adaptec 31605. The 31605 is super compatible. I ran 16x Seagate 7200.11's off of one for over a year in RAID 6 and only had one drive drop, but that is because I hit a cable so it was operator error. Those are some of the most finicky drives around.

I would strongly urge you to get either the Adaptec 51245 or the Areca 1680i as those are both great cards, fast, and they work decently well.

Now... let's get to reason here. How many Intel GigE ports are you planning to have? Realistically put 8 drives on any of those controllers in Raid 6 and you are not going to have performance issues so long as you also get a BBU for write cache unless you have 4+ NICs.

 

[GeorgeHR]

You say your issue is throughput.

There is a great deal of difference between 2 and 5 blue ray streams. But Raid does not seem to be necessary.

 

[Blue Fox]

I'm not going to lie, Adaptec lets you manage multiple machines/ adapters from one client interface. It is pretty good for that one reason. That being said, I really like my Areca 1680LP too. Different ways to go about a similar task and both have advantages.

You can do that with Areca cards as well.

 

[PnoT]

I'm not going to lie, Adaptec lets you manage multiple machines/ adapters from one client interface. It is pretty good for that one reason. That being said, I really like my Areca 1680LP too. Different ways to go about a similar task and both have advantages.

If you can get the 51245 for $350... that is a steal. It is much faster than the Adaptec 31605. The 31605 is super compatible. I ran 16x Seagate 7200.11's off of one for over a year in RAID 6 and only had one drive drop, but that is because I hit a cable so it was operator error. Those are some of the most finicky drives around.

I would strongly urge you to get either the Adaptec 51245 or the Areca 1680i as those are both great cards, fast, and they work decently well.

Now... let's get to reason here. How many Intel GigE ports are you planning to have? Realistically put 8 drives on any of those controllers in Raid 6 and you are not going to have performance issues so long as you also get a BBU for write cache unless you have 4+ NICs.

I'll pick up the 51245 tomorrow then and save myself some $$ over the Areca and see how things go. I'm also going to team and load balance the onboard NICs and see how that works out and if need be i can throw an Intel quad in there for extra measure.

You say your issue is throughput.

There is a great deal of difference between 2 and 5 blue ray streams. But Raid does not seem to be necessary.

That's good to know I can stream and not use RAID but if I go the software RAID my VMs are really going to suffer something fierce

 

[[LYL]Homer]

If you're streaming BR movies then you'll need a lot of storage eventually. Seems smarter just to go with a Norco 4020/4220 up front and be done with it.

 

[PnoT]

A small update...

I pulled the trigger on the 51245 and it should be on it's way later on today and I've also order some cables for it.

Newegg should be shipping me the MB, X3450, and the RAM today as well so everything is starting to come together.

I went with the 3450 as there were no MB/CPU deals on the 3440 and it came out to the same price with the discount.

 

[NO1B4ME]

A small update...

I pulled the trigger on the 51245 and it should be on it's way later on today and I've also order some cables for it.

Newegg should be shipping me the MB, X3450, and the RAM today as well so everything is starting to come together.

I went with the 3450 as there were no MB/CPU deals on the 3440 and it came out to the same price with the discount.

That will be a good combo. I went eith the X8SIL-f and a Xeon 3440 and it is running like a champ. I just need to figure out what case to put in alot of hard drives in. At the moemnt I have 20 x 2TB WD Greens and am using 8 of them already for blurays. Blurays eat up alot of space ...

 

[PnoT]

If you're streaming BR movies then you'll need a lot of storage eventually. Seems smarter just to go with a Norco 4020/4220 up front and be done with it.

I'll probably order one up within the next week and by then my other parts should be in hand.

I love the case and the mods to go with it are nice and it looks like a $400 investment once you get nice cables, the 120mm fan mod, and a couple of other items. I'm going to keep an eye on craigslist for a nice stand that would work with the case as well.

 

[PnoT]

That will be a good combo. I went eith the X8SIL-f and a Xeon 3440 and it is running like a champ. I just need to figure out what case to put in alot of hard drives in. At the moemnt I have 20 x 2TB WD Greens and am using 8 of them already for blurays. Blurays eat up alot of space ...

You can't go wrong with the NORCO mentioned here:

If you're streaming BR movies then you'll need a lot of storage eventually. Seems smarter just to go with a Norco 4020/4220 up front and be done with it.

 

[PnoT]

I just got my Adaptec 51245 in, flashed it, registered and it's running nicely in my desktop PC with a fan on it until my server parts arrive tomorrow!

This thing is a beast and gets extremely hot if you skimp on the fan.

 

[pjkenned]

Yea, all adaptec cards either require good case front to back airflow (not a problem in most servers) or that you install a fan nearby/ onboard.