Media Server Build, need advice

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georgexi

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I've been out of the hardware game for several years now so please bear with me :)

I'm looking to build a media server for home use that will accomplish the following:
1. Mass storage of movies/pictures/music accessible to 4-5 machines
2. Streaming 1080p video (perhaps to 2 machines simultaneous)
3. Running 24/7 - stay cool and energy-efficient as much as possible
4. Manage the printer
5. Handle some occasional x264 encoding, background torrents/folding
6. Budget: there is no budget.. as cheap as possible but still quality/reliable

Other thoughts:
1. No RAID - will be backing up data to external drives that will be offline most of the time
2. Already have a WD6400AAKS drive for the OS drive.
3. Starting with one data drive (1+TB).. will add additional TB data drives in the future as needed (up to 4-6 additional drives in the future?)
4. 1080p transcode (for streaming mkv to PS3) would be nice to have but not essential
5. Using some version of Windows

What do you guys think of the Antec 900 as a server case? I like the look, it got great reviews, plenty of space for future harddrives, plenty of cooling for 24/7 operation. But I'm open to suggestions if there are equivalent cheaper cases out there.

I'm considering the WD 1TB (WD10EACS) or maybe even the new Seagate 1.5TB for my first data drive. Are these recommended energy-efficient, reliable drives?


power-supply, motherboard, CPU, RAM: this is the part where I'm totally clueless what combination to get. i'm hoping to get some recommendations with these parts. do i need a special power-supply/motherboard to handle 6-8 harddrives?

This is my first server build so any recommendations/advice/tips regarding this server would be appreciated.
 
I suggest Windows Home Server for the OS. It does not use RAID, but has a technology called Drive Extender that is sort of "dynamic JBOD software RAID" like. It's super easy to expand as you need more space - just physically add the drive, then assign it to the 'pool'. Unlike RAID, redundancy is handled per folder instead of per physical drive. One benefit is that no RAID card is needed, cheaper cards with just more ports work great.

Streaming 1080p should be no issue with gigabit on WHS. WHS is based on Server 2003 and runs headless - no monitor/keyboard/mouse (except during setup the first time) and has very low hardware requirements. Login via the WHS interface from any PC on your network or use RDP. Any encoding won't affect streaming. WHS will automatically backup your other PC's/Xbox on your network.

The WD GP drives are a good choice and overall the server should be set up to be energy efficient. The general opinion from all of us that have WHS is not to worry about drive speed, you don't need Raptors. I have no opinion on the Antec 900. I'm running a Rocketfish case (Lian-Li knockoff) but want to move to a Norco 4020 for more expandability. Look for one of the "80 Plus" efficient PSU's in the 5-600 watt range. Hard drives draw something like 8-12 watts per drive so they don't take much. Look for a motherboard with onboard graphics if possible, this will save the cost of a video card and some power. Don't need to go overboard on RAM, 2gb should be enough. CPU - something in the E7x00 series would be great.

Here's my suggestion for hard drive setup if you do go WHS:

640AAKS as OS drive (this will be autoformatted as 20gb OS partition, remainder as 'landing zone' for transfers to the pool drives).
<secondary drive> for torrents, I suggest keeping them out of the pool drives.
1tb + drive assigned to the pool
1tb + drive assigned to the pool
etc., add more 1tb + drives as you need them.

Kind of a mess of thoughts above, please ask any other questions about WHS here and I'll try to answer.
 
I would also vote for the Windows Home Server approach. Awesome operating system to use.
 
For OS, Windows Home Server was actually one of my options. Either that or WinXP Pro. Trying to see if I can find it somewhere cheaply.

Now this Drive Extender, it basically creates one gigantic drive? Is there a limit on how big the harddrives can be? With redundancy turned on you basically only have "half" the original harddrive space?

Here was my original backup plan, everytime I buy a data drive, I was actually going to buy 2. One will go in the server, the other will be sitting on the shelf in an anti-static bag. When I want to back-up the data drive, I'll hook up the spare drive via eSata, copy the data over, then disconnect the spare and put it back on the shelf. This way if the data drive crashes, I have an "offline" backup. If a virus infects my machine and corrupts any data, I still have a virgin copy. Also using this method, I only have one harddrive connected instead of 2. I have to manually remember to back-up my data but I currently do that now and don't mind doing it. Any other obvious flaws in my madness? :)

Regarding CPU, would the E7x00 series be sufficient to handle 1080p trancoding? I have a PS3 that i'd like to use as a "HTPC". It can't handle MKV files so transcoding would be needed to play these on-the-fly.
 
georgexi said:
Now this Drive Extender, it basically creates one gigantic drive? Is there a limit on how big the harddrives can be? With redundancy turned on you basically only have "half" the original harddrive space?
Click to expand...

Yeah, basically one gigantic drive, like a JBOD setup. No limit on hard drive size AFAIK. With redundancy turned on on the folder(s), you only lose whatever space that folder took up. So say I have a 120GB hard drive with a folder that has 20GB of videos in it. If I turn on redundancy on that folder, I'll only have 80GB of space left. I think that's how it works.

georgexi said:
Regarding CPU, would the E7x00 series be sufficient to handle 1080p trancoding? I have a PS3 that i'd like to use as a "HTPC". It can't handle MKV files so transcoding would be needed to play these on-the-fly.
Click to expand...

I think the E7200 should be enough but not 100% sure.
 
My understanding is the first drive houses your OS and is the landing platform for new data. Basically, if you copy something to the server, then it goes to this drive first and then is balanced between the other drives. For the information you choose to duplicate (checkmark the box), it will store a copy of that data on 2 separate hard drives. Should you ever lose a drive any information that was duplicated on it should be duplicated on to one of the remaining harddrives. If you stored information on it that was not duplicated, then it's a goner. I have had a couple of disc errors in my first few months that WHS was able to rebuild around. Should you ever choose to replace a drive, you just tell it you plan to remove a drive and it redistributes that data to other drives and once you install a new drive will rebalance the data across all drives.

I have had my WHS box going for about 6 months and use it to automatically back up my desktop and HTPC, store music, data and videos (SD and HD) and access all of this via the website created by it. I have had great success with it and even tempted several of my more network-literate friends to install it.

Couple of hardware thoughts. I used an old system but would like to build from the ground up. Things I would have on my list: graphics chip on motherboard, low power CPU, at least 6 SATA connections, gigabit ethernet connection and at least one eSATA connection. Also I would take the time to link each drives position in the case with each drive listed in WHS. I used about 7 old drives in my current WHS and do not look forward to the day I have to replace one. I know it's going to be the last one I look at.
 
brownkc is correct on the Drive Extender.

I initially built my WHS box with an old 3200+/1gb RAM setup. I then rebuilt it with an E6600 and 2gb RAM - but I can't tell the difference using it. When I rebuilt it I used a WHS plug-in called Drive Manager that tells me which drive is in which physical location. Like brownkc, I knew I'd be screwed trying to figure out which drive was which in the event of a failure.

Here's some more reading, including some screenshots of my setup.
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1031912677#post1031912677
(The corruption bug mentioned in this thread has been fixed with Power Pack 1).

http://www.wegotserved.co.uk/

WHS @ Newegg for $139.99 and free shipping. link
 
say a nasty virus strikes my computer and corrupts a bunch of files. will the duplications also be corrupted? seems like i'll still need external backups. but at least i can turn on duplication on certain folders until i make the external backup.
 
Newegg is currently running a great combo deal on the Antec 900 + E7200 (expires on 10/15) so I may jump on this ($50 off combo deal, another $22 off with ANTEC20 code).

I'm tryin to find a good motherboard to match it up with. i'd like to find one that has 6+ SATA connectors, onboard video/audio, 100/1000 lan, and if possible an eSATA connector. i suppose i could start with a 4 SATA board and buy SATA cards down the line since the PCI slots will probably go unused.
 
Sounds like a good buy. As for your question about a possible virus, I have no idea. I do know there are a couple of antivirus programs that works with WHS but I don't know what happens if you still get infected.
 
georgexi said:
say a nasty virus strikes my computer and corrupts a bunch of files. will the duplications also be corrupted? seems like i'll still need external backups. but at least i can turn on duplication on certain folders until i make the external backup.
Click to expand...

Duplication is only protection against a drive failure, not a virus. Yes, you should still use an external solution for critical files.

I have about 5.5tb of storage on my server now, about 700gb is used as duplication (plus about 400gb as system backups of my other pc's). Of those duplicated files I only back up about 160gb of critical stuff on an external 2.5" drive. I keep that at work locked in my cabinet here and take it home weekly to refresh the backup.

Here's a motherboard idea: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131332
 
Looking back over your original post, I would add a couple of things.

The Antec 900 looks like a good case. Things I would look for are good ventilation, easy to get to hard drive bays (can't tell this by the pics of the 900), front or top usb and esata connections (if you are backing up to an external drive it would be nice to use the fastest connection and maybe a 6+ front 5 1/4" bays (you can add a couple of hot swap bays later for up to 10 drives with front access). I keep my server in the corner of the closet so front accessible connections are important. If you can't find a case with esata on front you could always pick up a 5 1/4" card reader that has one.

Because of the way WHS works, I would add 2 drives beside the OS drive. So maybe 2 1TB HD instead of 1 1.5TB. Also, 640GB may be overkill for the OS and landing pad but that also depends on the size of files you will be moving back and forth.
 
Thanks for the comments and suggestions everyone. Every bit of info helps. I will be going with WHS. Was hopin to find it cheap somewhere but so far $140 @ Newegg is the lowest price out there. I've already ordered the Seagate harddrives (saved a ton with that Microsoft cashback deal). Will be ordering the rest of the components either tonight or tomorrow.

Components I'm definitely going with

Antec 900, WD6400AKS (OS), Seagate1.5TB x 2 (data), Lite-On IDE DVD-DL/RW


Components I'm leaning towards

Power: Corsair 650TX - $92.74 ($72.74 AR)... is it worth $11 more to upgrade to 750TX?

CPU: Intel CD2 E7200 Wolfdale - $120 ($84 through Ebay cashback)

RAM: Corsair 2x1GB CAS5 ($38, $25 AR) or 2x1GB CAS4 ($50, $20 AR!!!) or
2x2GB ($70, $45 AR) ... would 4GB help me with 1080p transcoding or should I jump on that 2GB CAS4 deal?

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L ($66.25) ... this was the cheapest motherboard I can find that has onboard video, onboard gigabit lan. only has 4 SATA but I can buy a 2 SATA card ($20-30) later when I need more. the cheapest 6 SATA motherboard (with onboard video) is $50+ more. so i'm kinda torn right now whether to go with this board or pay more for a bigger board with more SATA ports. What would you guys do if you were in my shoes?
 
The PSU may be a little overkill. The G31 and E7200 are energy efficient according to this Tom's Hardware article. With 2GB of RAM, one 500GB HD and a Bluray drive they were able to get away with a 220W PSU. Their tests indicated they were only pulling 60W while running SYSMARK. Although, your price is pretty good for that PSU and you may not find much cheaper at the 400W mark.

The motherboard and CPU look like good choices based on Tom's article. Ideally, you want something energy efficient for your server.

I don't know if more RAM allows for faster file transfers but I would not buy more for transcoding. You will be doing that on another machine. I don't think you can have a WHS server do that. It's for storing files not running applications. I may be wrong but given the interface you work with, I believe that to be correct.
 
brownkc said:
The PSU may be a little overkill. The G31 and E7200 are energy efficient according to this Tom's Hardware article. With 2GB of RAM, one 500GB HD and a Bluray drive they were able to get away with a 220W PSU. Their tests indicated they were only pulling 60W while running SYSMARK. Although, your price is pretty good for that PSU and you may not find much cheaper at the 400W mark.

The motherboard and CPU look like good choices based on Tom's article. Ideally, you want something energy efficient for your server.

I don't know if more RAM allows for faster file transfers but I would not buy more for transcoding. You will be doing that on another machine. I don't think you can have a WHS server do that. It's for storing files not running applications. I may be wrong but given the interface you work with, I believe that to be correct.
Click to expand...

99% of the time, it'll be a straight-up file server. one of the "nice to have" features i mentioned in my first post was the ability to stream/transcode 1080p video to my PS3. the PS3 doesn't natively support mkv files so the "server" machine has to transcode (more like remux) on the fly so the PS3 can play it. i'm hoping the E7200 will be powerful enough. but if not, i can live without it.

regarding power, the 550vx is $64 AR, the 650tx is $73 AR.. since i dont know much about power supplies and 650tx got outstanding ratings, i figured for $9 more, go safe with the bigger one :) the case can support 6 drives (and 3 more with a 3-in-2 cage), in the long-term if i max out the drives, i will still be good regarding power.
 
georgexi said:
What would you guys do if you were in my shoes?
Click to expand...

I realize I may be taking this in a different direction, but if "99% of the time this will be a straight up file server" I would approach this in a completely different manner.

My HTPC(see sig) was originally a WHS box for media backup sharing/storage. That would be more than enough to accomplish what you want to do.

OTH I would suggest you look into a HP MSS I bought one and love it. It ended up being a better platform for WHS, cheaper(almost no power draw), smaller and more asthetically pleasing way to go.

those are my 2 opinons and suggestions. Otherwise your current build is MORE than enough for what you want to do.
 
no_control said:
I realize I may be taking this in a different direction, but if "99% of the time this will be a straight up file server" I would approach this in a completely different manner.

My HTPC(see sig) was originally a WHS box for media backup sharing/storage. That would be more than enough to accomplish what you want to do.

OTH I would suggest you look into a HP MSS I bought one and love it. It ended up being a better platform for WHS, cheaper(almost no power draw), smaller and more asthetically pleasing way to go.

those are my 2 opinons and suggestions. Otherwise your current build is MORE than enough for what you want to do.
Click to expand...

i guess i read this post a day late as i ordered all my components yesterday :)
i took a quick look at that HP MSS and it does look like a decent cheap pre-built alternative.

does the EX470 model normally run $500 w/o tax? factoring in rebates and ebay cashback, my server (w/o the two 1.5TB drives) cost me about $550 but it has a beefier cpu, more RAM, a bigger case w/ room for more drives, and i'm guessing a better power supply.

i noticed you have a PS3 in your sig, do you use that as a "HTPC" at all? transcoding 1080p mkv was one of the reasons i beefed up the server specs.
 
You can find the EX470 a bit cheaper. I think I bought mine for $425 out the door. But they we new back then you can find them used for under $400 now. I have 2gb of RAM in mine and CPU is up to the task of transcoding. I have a dedicated HTPC so I don't use the PS3 in that way. Actually I've never tried, but that being said with the MSS it doesn't do a whole bunch. so as long as your not trying to serve 3 or 4 at the same time it would be fine.

Your setup has more flexibility and will be a great server. Just offering up some options.

Have Fun Cheers!
 
just an update for anyone that cares. my server is assembled and running. i'll put a couple pics up this weekend.

being my first build ever, i definitely made a few "noob" mistakes which had i known earlier would've saved me a ton of time :eek:
lesson #1: install the CPU first BEFORE you install the motherboard
lesson #2: don't go overboard with the power-supply or else you'll be stuck with a ton of unused connectors (or get a power-supply with detachable connectors)
lesson #3: cable ties & extension cables are your friend and dirt cheap, order a ton of them
lesson #4: order extra SATAII cables


regarding WHS, i'm still tryin to figure this thing out. i want to make sure everything is configured properly before i start putting files on it. just a couple questions for the WHS savvy here :)

1. am i correct to assume that ideally you want to put all the media files in their appropriate "shared" folders (ie: music in the shared music, movies in the shared video, etc) and let WHS handle distributing across the drives?

2. is the OS drive duplicated? ie: say my physical drive C craps out, will the computer still boot up?

3. this is probably a stupid question but how do i check how much "disk space" i have left? when i go to "My Computer" it only shows my primary OS drive (C=20gb, D=596gb). My other 3 data drives don't show up though they do appear as "Healthy" from the Disk Pool utility. i guess i was expecting to see a "massive" drive D (4tb+) but it's only the size of my OS drive.
 
First off, congratulations on the new server. I hope you enjoy yours as much as I have enjoyed mine.

1. am i correct to assume that ideally you want to put all the media files in their appropriate "shared" folders (ie: music in the shared music, movies in the shared video, etc) and let WHS handle distributing across the drives?

Yes. Some of those folder are automatically accessible should you allow sharing across the network. I found it handy while building my parents a new computer. I was able to access the server to copy the family pictures without having to install the connector software on their computer. Also, a note about something I ran into. The original version of WHS didn't play nice with 64bit OS's. You need to have power pack 1 installed and download new connector software.

2. is the OS drive duplicated? ie: say my physical drive C craps out, will the computer still boot up?

No. There may be an add on for this and I believe some people have done a hardware fix by setting up the main drive as a RAID array. Since the OS is pretty much standardized, I believe the idea is you just reinstall it and it will search the other drives and handle the indexing. Technically, no data should be saved on this drive. It's divided into an OS partition and the landing pad. No data is saved to the OS and the landing pad only holds data until it is partitioned between the other drives.

One thing I would recommend is trying to mark which physical drive is which logical drive in the software (there is an addin that will let you create a wireframe for this, but I would still physically mark the OS drive because you won't get to the wireframe if that drive is dead). Assuming you run this 24/7, eventually hard drives are going to die and it's nice to mark them while you still somewhat remember how you connected them. Mine is a mess since I used 7 old drives and I dread digging in there to figure this out.

3. this is probably a stupid question but how do i check how much "disk space" i have left? when i go to "My Computer" it only shows my primary OS drive (C=20gb, D=596gb). My other 3 data drives don't show up though they do appear as "Healthy" from the Disk Pool utility. i guess i was expecting to see a "massive" drive D (4tb+) but it's only the size of my OS drive.[/quote]

From the server, you can click the blue windows home console icon (i think that's the name on it) and click the disk managment tab in the window that opens. All of your drives will be listed including their size and thir will be a pie chart in the bottom right corner with info on space available, used etc. This is also the same screen you will get by accessing the WHS from a connecting computer (click the green WHS icon in the systray and the same window pops up).

I found an addin at We Got served that adds a column on the disk management tab that will show how much of each drive is used. I found this very helpful since I have a bunch of mismatched drives.


Additional sites to visit:

Microsoft's WHS forums: lots of great information and they do help consumers regardless of the OEM status of the software.

We Got Served: a great resource for add-in software and additional WHS info.

Additional things I have learned:

mstsc: enter this in a run box ("windows key" + "r") to remotely connect to the server. I have my server running headless but you need access to it to install addins. It doesn't like accessing some web features so I found it easier to download the addins on another computer and save them to a server folder.

Moving large files to it may cause it spend lots of time balancing storage. It seems like it did that for my first month. Don't worry.

If you don't already use a password on your connected computers, doing so and making them identical to the password you used for connecting that computer to the server will prevent enter password popups everytime you want to access data on the server.

Feel Free to PM me with any questions. I try to follow up on the postings but I sometimes forget to.
 
brownkc said:
No. There may be an add on for this and I believe some people have done a hardware fix by setting up the main drive as a RAID array. Since the OS is pretty much standardized, I believe the idea is you just reinstall it and it will search the other drives and handle the indexing. Technically, no data should be saved on this drive. It's divided into an OS partition and the landing pad. No data is saved to the OS and the landing pad only holds data until it is partitioned between the other drives.
Click to expand...
i've noticed my drive D hasn't really been growing while the data drives are. will this drive grow ever? like when my data drives are full? i'm glad i didn't splurge on the OS drive :-/


brownkc said:
One thing I would recommend is trying to mark which physical drive is which logical drive in the software (there is an addin that will let you create a wireframe for this, but I would still physically mark the OS drive because you won't get to the wireframe if that drive is dead). Assuming you run this 24/7, eventually hard drives are going to die and it's nice to mark them while you still somewhat remember how you connected them. Mine is a mess since I used 7 old drives and I dread digging in there to figure this out.
Click to expand...
that's a good idea. i know which drive is my OS since it's the only WD in the server. but my three DATA drives are the same Seagate model so i need to figure out a way to identify them.


brownkc said:
Additional sites to visit:

Microsoft's WHS forums: lots of great information and they do help consumers regardless of the OEM status of the software.

We Got Served: a great resource for add-in software and additional WHS info.
Click to expand...
thanks for those links. lots of great information on there. right now i'm tryin to set-up utorrent to run as a service and i found a great guide there on configuring that. do you have any recommendations for anti-virus? particularly one that's free :)
i'm gonna check if AVG or Avast has a free "server" version.
 
It sounds like your D drive is the OS drive. If so, it may grow a little as you put a few programs/add-ins on it but otherwise will stay small. I believe WHS creates a 20GB partition for the OS and the remainder of the space on the hard drive is for new data transferred to the server (landing pad). It's stored on that drive until it's divided up among the data drives. So I guess the sensible thing to do is spend money to get a reliable drive rather than a large one for the OS and landing pad.

I won't be much help on identifying the drives. I would probably start by seeing if there is a way to link the logical drive to a particular SATA header then follow the cable to the hard drive. Worst case scenario you could just disconnect the drives one at a time, restart and see which drive is missing. I don't know what effect that would have on the data already stored on it.

Since I don't download internet content to my server, I haven't had to worry about an antivirus program. I believe Avast may have a version that works with WHS but I don't think there is a free AV program for it. I believe the site We Got Served has information on the available AV programs for WHS.
 
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