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Mechanical Keyboard Guide

Serpico said:
This can't be said enough. You don't 1000% know which switch is best for you until you actually use the keyboard on a PC that is turned on. Even typing on it in the store without it plugged into anything doesn't give you the whole story. I went through two mechanical keyboards before I was happy, and my first instinct that I would like Cherry MX browns (which suits other people perfectly BTW) was completely wrong.

So yeah, it really comes down to personal preference.
Click to expand...

This is basically why I went for the Rosewill. I was fairly certain I was going to be down with the blues but ultimately you can only read so much on the Internet and watch/listen to so many Youtube videos of people typing on keyboards before you realize you at least need a real point of reference to work off of. You have to finally get something, feel it, use it, and then you really KNOW where you're at.

With the Rosewill I knew I could return it easily enough or flip it and sell it easily enough if I really just didn't like it for whatever reason. A "safe" trial vs. other options that I saw and more expensive to boot.

I think I hit gold first crack out of the box for myself. :)

If it hadn't worked out for me...let's say the noise bothered me...then at least I would know blue isn't for me and I'd probably try brown next or black.
 
I really can't decide if I want a BlackWidow or not. Or just a mechanical in general. I was hoping that maybe Razer would update the BlackWidow to be full NKRO or have a non glossy version but I'm gonna hazard a guess that given their product release cycle it probably won't happen for another 4-5 months...:(

Of course this is probably going to get me a biased answer but are mechanical keyboards like AWESOMELY better then my G15? I'm guessing that they probably are and I just need to start using one before I fall in love with it, sort of like how once I tried a decent set of headphones I could never go back to crappy $15 headphones, would you guys say it's sort of a similar experience?
 
soulesschild said:
I really can't decide if I want a BlackWidow or not. Or just a mechanical in general. I was hoping that maybe Razer would update the BlackWidow to be full NKRO or have a non glossy version but I'm gonna hazard a guess that given their product release cycle it probably won't happen for another 4-5 months...:(

Of course this is probably going to get me a biased answer but are mechanical keyboards like AWESOMELY better then my G15? I'm guessing that they probably are and I just need to start using one before I fall in love with it, sort of like how once I tried a decent set of headphones I could never go back to crappy $15 headphones, would you guys say it's sort of a similar experience?
Click to expand...

I haven't used that Logitech but I do know that past the pretty screen and pretty lights it's a rubber membrane keyboard like so many others.

What I can tell you is that for me, yes, my Rosewill kicks the hell out of my rubber membrane MS Natural Ergo keyboard so...take it FWIW I guess. ;)

I bet if you bought something like that Black Widow you'd never look back. Buy something that has what you're looking for from a place with a good return policy so you can prove it to yourself with minimal to no risk. That's ultimately the only way you'll really know for sure.

If you use that mechanical KB and don't feel it's worth it then it's all done for you and that's all she wrote. There's that money saved and back in your pocket. I'm betting that's not going to happen, though. ;)
 
soulesschild said:
I really can't decide if I want a BlackWidow or not. Or just a mechanical in general. I was hoping that maybe Razer would update the BlackWidow to be full NKRO or have a non glossy version but I'm gonna hazard a guess that given their product release cycle it probably won't happen for another 4-5 months...:(
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I hadn't heard of the BlackWidow before. Just looked it up, and it looks sleek.

How do you guys think it compares to my Lexmark made IBM Model M's?
 
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Zarathustra[H];1036747392 said:
I hadn't heard of the BlackWidow before. Just looked it up, and it looks sleek.

How do you guys think it compares to my Lexmark made IMB Model M's?
Click to expand...

It's not full NKRO and it's glossy are pretty much the only cons I've seen of it. Uses Cherry Blues
 
soulesschild said:
It's not full NKRO and it's glossy are pretty much the only cons I've seen of it. Uses Cherry Blues
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The Model M's aren't NKRO anyway, so that wouldn't be a step down for me.

The glossy I might be bothered by...

That being said...

Is NKRO really useful, or is it just a matter "my keyboard is better than yours"?

I have been using various Model M's for years now, and have never noticed any game or application I have been limited in by the lack of NKRO...
 
Zarathustra[H];1036747486 said:
The Model M's aren't NKRO anyway, so that wouldn't be a step down for me.

The glossy I might be bothered by...

That being said...

Is NKRO really useful, or is it just a matter "my keyboard is better than yours"?

I have been using various Model M's for years now, and have never noticed any game or application I have been limited in by the lack of NKRO...
Click to expand...

I honestly think it's a "my keyboard is better than yours" though it does have some uses in certain games. I've heard that the BW will fail if you press ZXC at the same time or something similar which can be a problem for some people (an example was someone who played emulators a lot it was a problem). For me, I hardly ever use those keys in conjunction so....whatever? :D

Ordered a BWU (I wanted to save some money, but I cannot live without back lit keys, yea yea I know:( ) off Amazon with next day shipping. Let you guys know how I like it....
 
Q-BZ said:
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?ti...+Keyboard+Guide+-+Includes+Glossary+and+Links

Has to get mentioned regularly in threads like these. Souless, I bet you're going to be happy with that BWU. :)

If you don't then you know Amazon is going to take care of you on returns and exchanges.
Click to expand...

Yea I definitely read through that and checked out reviews. I mean, I agree with the review of the BWU in that really it should have come with full NKRO support but since I wanted back lighting (I really could care less about the USB and audio/mic jacks) there wasn't much choice :(
 
soulesschild said:
Yea I definitely read through that and checked out reviews. I mean, I agree with the review of the BWU in that really it should have come with full NKRO support but since I wanted back lighting (I really could care less about the USB and audio/mic jacks) there wasn't much choice :(
Click to expand...

NKRO is something that many if not most people never use and never miss. I wouldn't sweat it too much.
 
Q-BZ said:
NKRO is something that many if not most people never use and never miss. I wouldn't sweat it too much.
Click to expand...

Like I've said before, the limits with USB are fine. I do not press more than six keys at once and can't imagine I ever will.
 
Very sad panda. Had next day shipping on my BWU but FedEx f'ed things up. But amazon is awesome and refunded me the 1-day shipping cost. <3 Amazon. So I'll see it tomorrow I guess :(
 
soulesschild said:
Very sad panda. Had next day shipping on my BWU but FedEx f'ed things up. But amazon is awesome and refunded me the 1-day shipping cost. <3 Amazon. So I'll see it tomorrow I guess :(
Click to expand...

It'll be worth it. Expect to be very happy panda tomorrow. :)
 
I bit on the SteelSeries G6v2 from Amazon. It's out of stock, but I hope it'll be worth the wait. :)
 
I've been using a Das Keyboard for a year now and I really like it, aside from the fact that it sometimes doesn't boot right and I need to pull the USB out and put it back it to re-initiate it. It's just kind of obnoxious. Anyone else have this problem?
 
Falcon Punch said:
I've been using a Das Keyboard for a year now and I really like it, aside from the fact that it sometimes doesn't boot right and I need to pull the USB out and put it back it to re-initiate it. It's just kind of obnoxious. Anyone else have this problem?
Click to expand...

Well, my Model M's are all ps2's so never with them, but I have a mouse that exhibits this very behavior. Every so often on boot it does not power up, and the computer does not recognize it. I have to pull it out and plug it back in again. It's a Logitech G500...
 
Got the keyboard in. Love the build and finish. Only thing is that I didn't realize it was THIS loud :p But I'll do some extended testing on it tonight but so far I'm loving how it feels to type on.
 
I've actually been unable to test the lighting since I'm at work and I'm connecting the BWU to a Mac :p will let you know when I get home.

Edit I lied, lighting looks pretty even on all keys as far as I can tell at all levels of lighting.

What is sort of disappointing is that the alternate keys aren't lit up, so like the number 7 is lit up but the & underneath it is not. Also the Fn key is also the only key that has no LED lighting what so ever.
 
rflcptr said:
Ah, thanks! :)
Click to expand...

The one thing I can tell you is that on some of the keys where they are slightly bigger, it looks a bit..off? Hard to describe as it's still bright but it sort of tails off....uploading some crappy pics from my Droid to see if I can show you
 
Mr. Wolf said:
Same here. After at least 5+ years using laptop-style/membrane boards, some of which were quite good (Enermax, SIIG, Logitech, etc.), I was fully won over to mechanical within a few hours of using a Razer Black Widow. Now, I've got a Das and won't ever go back to membrane boards.
Click to expand...

It would seem that you and I went through the same teething period. My previous keyboards consisted of a Microsoft Ergonomic keyboard from ~2004 and then a Saitek Eclipse. I bought the Logitech Ultra-X thin keyboard on the recommendation of another forum member and liked it sooo much for the price. It was then that I favored laptop-style keys with minimal travel, and you and I have discussed this.

At one point, I picked up a Das Keyboard Ultimate for ~$70 after hearing the praise for mechanicals and thought that was a ton of money to spend on a keyboard. It really wasn't...the typing experience is so much more satisfying and it felt infinitely more sturdy. I ended up with two Logitech Ultra-X keyboards, and neither of them are fully functional. They couldn't handle much abuse but I expect my mechanical boards to go for years and years. I bought the Enermax Aurora but have had no real desire to use it since being converted to mechanicals. Now I have a Das with Blues, a Filco with Browns, and a Realforce with Topres. They have been worth every penny. There is some curiosity to try the Cherry Blacks, but I don't think I'd prefer them due to the stiffness and lack of tactile feedback. I am slightly curious about the Deck tactile boards, but not enough to buy one unless one of mine breaks and I know you had your own experience with Deck that wasn't so positive (though I think they are a good company overall).
 
How does the Razer Blackwidow Ultimate compare to an IBM Model M? The "New vs. Old" argument!
 
Wilo said:
How does the Razer Blackwidow Ultimate compare to an IBM Model M? The "New vs. Old" argument!
Click to expand...

I'm interested in this as well.

If you scroll up a bit I think someone responded that it would be somewhat similar. The Black Widow apparently uses Cherry MX blue switches, which have less resistance than the buckling spring switches in a Model M. (The Model M is apparently equivalent to a Cherry MX brown)

So from a force perspective it will be a little softer. This likely also means it will be a little quieter.

The Black Widow also has less textured keys (they are smooth I believe) some may not like how this feels.

To me, the two points above are potential negatives about the Black Widow, but I'll reserve my judgment until I get to try one.

There are also areas where the Black Widow performs better. The Model M only has guaranteed 2key rollover (some combinations work with 3 keys, NONE work with 4) The BlackWidow is apparently only limited by its USB interface, which gives it 6key rollover.

That being said, with my typing and gaming style I have never noticed a problem with nkey rollover, but some claim this makes a difference for their key layouts.

Also - though this is subjective - some would say the black widow is more aesthetically pleasing, as well as is easier to type on in the dark due to the backlit keys.

Personally I have not had to look at a keyboard while typing in many years, so the backlit keys are functionally a waste on me (but I do think they look cool). I am torn on the aesthetics though.

As I posted above I have two Model M's, one rare as all hell Black Trackpoint II model and one relatively common typical Grey Model M. See below:


The IBM Model M by mattlach, on Flickr


The Model M by mattlach, on Flickr

Both of them are delicious to type on, but quite frankly, the communist grey/beige model really is ugly by todays standards, which is why I no longer use it at home (brought it to work so I don't have to use the Dell Membrane keyboard they gave me)

The Black Trackpoint II looks great on my desk (IMHO, see below) but it was expensive to buy due to its rarity, and due to a design flaw in these the white printed keys start to wear off after 3 or 4 years of regular use. Now, again I don't need the printed keys, but it makes the keyboard look like junk.


Current setup... by mattlach, on Flickr

I recently refurbished mine, opening it up and cleaning out everything, as well as replacing the keycaps with new ones, but the problem is that Unicomp (the company that bought out the remains of Lexmarks keyboard manufacturing, lexmark made the Model M's for IBM) sold me the very last set of caps they had a few months ago, and they no longer make new ones. My research shows that noone else does right now either. (Grey ones are plentiful though, and they don't seem to wear out as fast, or ever)

So when these current ones wear out, I'm either going to have to look into having some custom made, or just replace the keyboard.

I am considering getting something else earlier than that too, and keeping the keyboard in good condition, as after all it is a rare collectible, and I just got the last replacement parts for it...

I hope this helps. It is as much of a comparison I can make without actually having tested the black widow.
 
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Zarathustra[H];1036762929 said:
If you scroll up a bit I think someone responded that it would be somewhat similar. The Black Widow apparently uses Cherry MX blue switches, which have less resistance than the buckling spring switches in a Model M. (The Model M is apparently equivalent to a Cherry MX brown)
Click to expand...

Nope, Cherry MX Brown requires even less resistance than Blue and doesn't have a pronounced click. Cherry MX Blue is definitely closer to Buckling spring than MX Brown.

There are also areas where the Black Widow performs better. The Model M only has guaranteed 2key rollover (some combinations work with 3 keys, NONE work with 4) The BlackWidow is apparently only limited by its USB interface, which gives it 6key rollover.
Click to expand...

Both the Model M and BlackWidow have 2KRO.
 
db_Iodine said:
Nope, Cherry MX Brown requires even less resistance than Blue and doesn't have a pronounced click. Cherry MX Blue is definitely closer to Buckling spring than MX Brown.
Click to expand...

You are correct. I got my blacks and browns confused.

attachment.php



db_Iodine said:
Both the Model M and BlackWidow have 2KRO.
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Ok. I was under the impression that the Black Widow was better than 2KRO but worse than NKRO
 
It's "gaming optimized" across the WASD keys I believe, but still 2KRO.
 
Pylon said:
It's "gaming optimized" across the WASD keys I believe, but still 2KRO.
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Ahh, I use my own unique little setup for FPS games that doesn't use WASD, so thats probably no use for me.

I use the arrow keys for movement:
up = forward
down = backward
left = strafe left
right = strafe right

Mouse uses the original Doom configuration:
Mouse: = Fire
Mouse2 = jump
wheel = weapon change (though I don't use this often)
Mouse is inverted on the y axis

The keys around the arrow keys perform other functions and differ from game to game, but are usually something like this:
Right ctrl = crouch
Right shift = walk/run modifier
Enter = Use
delete over arrow keys = reload
end over arrow keys = weapon special function (zoom, fire 2, etc.)
pgdn over arrow keys = drop weapon


Num keypad has quick weapon selects. In Counter-Strike they look like this:
Num1 = primary (rifle, smg, etc)
Num2 = pistol
Num4 = knife
Num0 = grenades

In CS the F keys along the top trigger various buy scripts.

I bet that setup is pretty unique, huh?
 
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That black Model M is sweet. I have the gray one, and while it's displeasing in color, it conveys emotion. My wife can always tell when I typing an angry e-mail!

Great information. Thanks for sharing.
 
I'm loving my Rosewill RK-9000. I am even debating buying a backup. It's a big step up over my compukey model that I also liked. Does anyone here use a keyboard with cherry red switches? What are they like? Thanks.
 
Zarathustra[H];1036763900 said:
Ahh, I use my own unique little setup for FPS games that doesn't use WASD, so thats probably no use for me.

I use the arrow keys for movement:
up = forward
down = backward
left = strafe left
right = strafe right
Click to expand...

The BlackWidow actually has poor rollover on the arrow cluster, so I wouldn't suggest that for you.
 
db_Iodine said:
The BlackWidow actually has poor rollover on the arrow cluster, so I wouldn't suggest that for you.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the warning.

Are there any other black keyboards that have either 6-KRO or N-KRO with either Cherry blue or black, or ALPS White clicky switches that have a similar sleek consumer like design?
 
Zarathustra[H];1036764425 said:
Thank you for the warning.

Are there any other black keyboards that have either 6-KRO or N-KRO with either Cherry blue or black, or ALPS White clicky switches that have a similar sleek consumer like design?
Click to expand...

Actually, the Deck Legend 105 Tactile looks pretty neat (though I like the appearance of the BlackWidow better).

IOt uses Cherry MX White switches though. I haven't seen these compared to the other cherry's yet. Does anyone know where the White switches fit in? Are they close to cherry blue's or IBM's buckling springs?
 
i2abid said:
They feel like lighter tactile black switches imo.
Click to expand...

Cool. Thank you.

I am trying to match the feel of my buckling sprink IBM Model M's as much as possible, and with modern keyboards I guess that means either MX Blue's or Clicky White ALPS.

I've done some more reading, and I'm actually really starting to like the XArmor U9BL.

This review makes it seem pretty awesome. A mix of the best of my Model M's with the features of more modern keyboards thrown in.

I wish there were some way I could test one out before ordering though. Since they are a very subjective thing, I don't want to get one and be disappointed...

Does anyone here have the experience of going from a Model M to a Cherry MX Blue? What was the experience like?
 
@Zarathustra

You do have a strange layout for FPS. The BWU would definitely not be up your alley.


Regarding my new BWU and general performance, it seems pretty good. I have some weird issues here and there with key presses but I think it's because I'm not used to how the keyboard feels/responds vs my G15 which I've used for about 3-4 years now. I'll keep you guys updated. I'm defintely loving the clicky feeling and sound though :)
 
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