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Managing large HDDs

C

carlmart

Gawd
Joined
Sep 17, 2006
Messages
691
This is my first large HDD: a 3Tb Seagate.

I don't know why I thought things would be easier, but I found a few problems in the way.

To start with Windows 7 64 would not partition it, at least not as a whole 3Tb disk. It partitioned in a 2Tb part and a 745Gb one.

Then it wouldn't "see" those two partitions, only the larger one, and it wouldn't allow me to format the small partition. The error it claimed was 0x80042468.

So I went to Seagate and downloaded Discwizard. That seemed to solve it, allowing me to format the 745Gb non-allocated part.

What I still find weird is that the files I copied to those HDDs have blue letters instead of black, as if to warn of something I can't think of.

Apparently there's a GPT/UEFI partitioning that is only allowed in Win 7 64, which really wouldn't quite serve me for now, because it shouldn't be recognized by XP. But I like to do things because I want to, and not because I know no other way.

A BIOS update did bring the UEFI letters to the setup, but I couldn't see that changing anything.

It's quite confusing. Are those files in danger?
 
Not trying to be/sound dickish: LMGTFY

It is because they are compressed.

The partitioning is, I believe, because it is partitioned as MBR, and not GPT. For drives/partitions over 2TB in size, they must be formatted in GPT to be properly recognized. Is this 3TB drive your boot drive?
Again: How to format a 3TB drive in Windows 7
 
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But where did that compression came from?

I didn't compress the files, just copied them from my other HDDs to it. And the size seems to be the same, which is something I did check.

I never compress any files, except when zipping.

So how do I copy without any compression?
 
There is a setting on the local disk properties that can enable compression for the whole disk. This will cause all files written to the disk to be compressed. Its sounds like this setting was accidentally enabled on your disk.

On another note, your issue with the size of the disk being recognized is certainly related to MBR. MBR's maximum size limit is based on sector size, most disks these days are still using 512 B sectors (albeit some are emulated). The maximum number of sectors MBR can accommodate is 2³²-1 sectors. Doing some maths results in a maximum size of 2 TiB (~2.2TB) per partition for a 512 B sector disk. If you switch to GPT this limitation is gone because the maximum sector count is exponentially higher. The issue here is that you mentioned wanting/needing access to the disk in XP. If you are attempting to boot off this disk in XP, then you are completely out of luck, but there are softwares out there that allow mounting GPT drives for read/write in XP. From what I've read they are very limited in their capabilities though.
 
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CamaroZ28 said:
There is a setting on the local disk properties that can enable compression for the whole disk. This will cause all files written to the disk to be compressed. Its sounds like this setting was accidentally enabled on your disk.
Click to expand...

Bingo!

And OP, upi need to format the disk as GPT not MBR in order to use one large partition....
 
CamaroZ28 said:
If you are attempting to boot off this disk in XP, then you are completely out of luck, but there are softwares out there that allow mounting GPT drives for read/write in XP. From what I've read they are very limited in their capabilities though.
Click to expand...

No, I wouldn't be booting from this disk, either in XP or Win 7.

Would XP see the whole 3Tb size if I decide to go for it?

What happens with the files that I transferred to that HDD which apparently are compressed? My problem with compression is for errors that might appear, but this is probably not the case here. Would that compression be transparent and error free? Or should I transfer all things again from the original places they were, this time to an HDD that will not compress?
 
carlmart said:
No, I wouldn't be booting from this disk, either in XP or Win 7.

Would XP see the whole 3Tb size if I decide to go for it?

What happens with the files that I transferred to that HDD which apparently are compressed? My problem with compression is for errors that might appear, but this is probably not the case here. Would that compression be transparent and error free? Or should I transfer all things again from the original places they were, this time to an HDD that will not compress?
Click to expand...

This compression is actually done by the filesystem (NTFS filesystem compression) and it's completely transparent in that any system that works with NTFS will not have problems with it, and its no less likely to cause errors that wouldn't affect the same data non-compressed.

Now, these days most files will not significantly compress using the outdated algorithm that NTFS uses, and since it's a 3TB drive, I highly doubt there is a need to compress. You can simply decompress everything by turning off disk compression by right clicking the hard drive in "My Computer" and selecting "Properties" and then uncheck the box that says "Compress this drive...". There is no reason to transfer the files again.

As for your question about using the drive with Windows XP, the only way that operating system can see GPT partitioned drives is with 3rd party software (or you are using the rare 64bit version of XP). Here is a example of a software that allows GPT disks to be accessed in XP: GPT-Loader. There are still pretty significant limitations with that particular software, such as it will only recognize HDDs connected internally, no external drives. The fact of the matter is, if you are interested in using modern hardware, you should be using a modern OS, and Windows XP is 11 years old....
 
I know XP may seem "outdated" to some, but what I look for is stability. And even with XP I only found such stability/no problem balance when I prevented any updates to happen.

That is I installed XP + SP3 and froze things there. Never had any problems again and all programs, including games, did work.

Last year I had to move to Windows 7 64bit in order to use my video editing program of choice, Avid Media Composer, in its latest version, and I had several problems with Windows 7. I'm still looking for that balance I had with XP, and that's why I can't totally abandon that choice. There's a separate HD with XP that I can boot from any time I want to, and even use another Avid MC version that works with it.

After my latest Windows 7 install, on an SSD, I'm having permissions issues that I didn't have with my other install, and I haven't yet been able to figure why.

I can't seem to get all the rights I want to do anything I want, I'm constantly being prevented from doing things, like saving or zipping or moving a file from a specific disk. Things that didn't happen on my previous W7 install.

That's why I haven't yet given up on XP.

I'm not sure there would be any advantages in going for a XP 64 bit version, and I don't think the program will accept it.

The reason for the large HDD is for storing all large files that are now on separate HDDs, simplifying my hardware arrangement. I tried to do that with external HDD cases, but they are too expensive or unavailable where I live. Even usb 3 external cases are hard to find here, and I won't go for lesser speed than that.

As a compromise, the way the large is split now, in 2TB + 745Gb, is not totally bad. And if I can see it with XP then it's fine.
 
I understand your reason for staying with XP is for stability, but I can assure you that those problems you've been having with Windows 7 are either due to something improperly configured or trying to apply techniques that worked in old versions of Windows. There are tons of people that have been using Win7 for years, like myself, and will tell you its the most reliable version of Windows they've ever used. I think if you give yourself some time to familiarize with the differences between it and older versions you will find yourself with a system just as reliable, if not more, than your XP system.

As you said though, with old software you will have to make a lot of compromises to run new hardware with it. As long as you can live with that then keep on going with it.
 
I'm not afraid of new things, even if I rarely try them at first.

Until now I couldn't figure what is not working as it should on my latest Win 7 install. The install discs are the same as on my HDD install, but I can't seem to hold all the rights in my SSD install that I did have on the former one.

Believe me I have tried everything I know, and even a friend of mine helped me using Teamviewer on my first try with the SSD. On my second try things were a bit better, but I still get some issues blocking things I want to do. E.g.: there are some things I can't do on some of my HDDs, particularly on my "C".
 
I'm not afraid of new things
Click to expand...

But I like to do things because I want to, and not because I know no other way.
Click to expand...

You may not be afraid but it's pretty obvious you're having a hard time coping with something a little different.

XP has nothing on W7 in any way shape or form.....including stability.

Since you like doing things because you want to, why not Google XP + 3TB and you may run into this article that will shed a little light on the subject. :)
 
I had the same problems with win 7 when I started using it two years ago. Basically, there's something called 'super administrator' privilidges or something like that that you have to enable. I remember it took me quite a while to find all the necessary information, but just using google I managed to figure it out. I think M$ just wanted to make it harder for the average user to screw up the computer by deleting stuff they shouldn't. So, they just made it impossible to access the directories and files for anyone who's not smart enought to figure it out. Start here: http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/enable-the-hidden-administrator-account-on-windows-vista/
There are lots of sites like that, it's how I learned. Just google windows 7 super administrator and you'll find lots of info.
 
What I meant by doing things because I want to, it's in contraposition to being forced to, particularly due to specific ideas someone else had. It's not a caprice, just a different way to do things, which I do not think is the same thing.

Thanks for super administrator tips, I will look into them.

Will also look into XP and 3TB.
 
OK. I did look into the Super rights, and they very much seem what I had implemented on my HDD install.

What I do not understand is why they shouldn't be on all the time. They instruct you how to get them, and then tell you to cancel them and leave them only as an option.

What are the dangers of Super rights being available all the time?
 
Will also look into XP and 3TB.
Click to expand...
Even though I have a 3TB drive for server back-up there's still many details I don't quite understand.

I'm pretty sure XP makes them more difficult to deal with but there's gotta be some tricks to make them workable.

I install/uninstall programs all the time and have disabled the Super Administrator crap and the UAC prompts that go with it.
 
but they are not seen on my streaming system.
Click to expand...

Then there is something wrong with your streaming software or the permissions you have used. Although with that said I assume you are streaming some type of media which should already be compressed. In that case compressing it again will not give you any more space since you generally do not gain much if anything from compressing something more than 1 time.
 
No, I am not interested in compressing. That was unexpected and I'm now trying to correct it.
 
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Old Hippie said:
I install/uninstall programs all the time and have disabled the Super Administrator crap and the UAC prompts that go with it.
Click to expand...

Seriously in the sense that you can enable/disable Super Adm with the written prompt and all that, or UAC slide, but it doesn't solve my issues with Win 7.

Namely, and for instance, moving files from an HD that I didn't provide specific orders for. I mean that is something I always did without paying specific attention, leaving that for granted. But now, even if I want to save a file and didn't free up the HD the file is in, Windows will not let me do it.
 
If you're running Win7 Pro or greater with a regular Protected Admin account use security policy: go to run, type" secpol.msc" and go to Local Policies>Security Options, scroll down to "behaviour of the elevation prompt for administrators in Admin Approval mode" and enable the "elevate without prompting" . This will get rid of UAC prompts for Admin accounts without disabling UAC altogether. As for other permissions try taking ownership from the root of the drive if it's a transplanted drive or else from the root directory where you're trying to copy the files from. Older WinXP apps that are not UAC aware might install but not run. To workaround try right clicking the installer and run as admin, then afterwards run the prog in admin mode by changing the advanced properties in the program shortcut and/or in compatibility mode for an older version of Windows.
 
Seriously in the sense that you can enable/disable Super Adm with the written prompt and all that
Click to expand...
Seriously in the context you couldn't Google the answer when you found the answer on how to enable it.

I have no problem giving help but some can help themselves and do their own legwork.
 
But I did google for the answer, and I only came here AFTER looking for an answer.

I certainly know you can't abuse asking help from people and I do respect the effort you all do.

Enabling or disabling things didn't get me anywhere, and I still have the same problems.
 
But I did google for the answer, and I only came here AFTER looking for an answer.
Click to expand...
If that's the case I apologize for the remark.

I'm thinking your Google-Fi needs improvement.

Any search that included "disable uac", "turn off uac" , "remove uac" or a zillion others would have lead you to the answer. Kinda like this.

Now you've learned how to help yourself a little better......I hope. :)
 
But changing the UAC did not solve any of my issues. I still have problems on my C disk when I want to save something on a file that was already there, or even move it. That's to mention one of the usual ones.
 
carlmart said:
But changing the UAC did not solve any of my issues. I still have problems on my C disk when I want to save something on a file that was already there, or even move it. That's to mention one of the usual ones.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I'm lost.
 
A fresh example, it happened right now.

I was working with Word, writing a file, and when I tried to save it on the root C it didn't let me. The same happened with several of my HDDs, until I found one that let me.

Something is not working on the permissions I have. And I did all that I was supposed to.

Did many things I never had to in the past, as what I guess must have been "default" attributes. And I can't seem to get them now.
 
I was working with Word, writing a file, and when I tried to save it on the root C it didn't let me.
Click to expand...
What is the exact error and does anything on this page help you?
 
Thanks, that's what I've been doing.

What I don't get it is why this can't be applied globally and as default.
 
Right now, for instance, I wanted to save a pdf file I downloaded from the web in root C. It doesn't allow me. It claims "a required privilege is not held by the client"

So I went to "Security" > "User names", and full permissions are allowed for ALL users.

So what is happening and what I'm forgetting to do?
 
From what I can understand, you have two different issues here. The whole writing to the C: has nothing to do with the large hard drive, since it isn't the boot disk.

I would start with a fresh format and reinstall of Windows 7. I have never seen or heard of any of these problems with Windows 7.

For the large capacity drive, personally, where I would start would be to reformat the entire drive as GPT. See if that clears any issues up.
 
carlmart said:
Right now, for instance, I wanted to save a pdf file I downloaded from the web in root C. It doesn't allow me. It claims "a required privilege is not held by the client"

So I went to "Security" > "User names", and full permissions are allowed for ALL users.

So what is happening and what I'm forgetting to do?
Click to expand...

Probably an ownership issue. I wonder what you have done to not own the C drive, though.
 
That's right: the large disk is not the boot disk, and very sorry for mixing the issues.

About the formatting, it isn't yet clear for me if formatting as GPT would bring me any problems to see the HDD when booting from XP, from a different HDD, of course.

Second, I did already format this SSD for the second time, this time doing everything "by the manual", not even creating an administrator user. I am not sure there's a point in formatting again without knowing what else to do.

How can I check my ownership or get to own my C drive?
 
carlmart said:
That's right: the large disk is not the boot disk, and very sorry for mixing the issues.

About the formatting, it isn't yet clear for me if formatting as GPT would bring me any problems to see the HDD when booting from XP, from a different HDD, of course.

Second, I did already format this SSD for the second time, this time doing everything "by the manual", not even creating an administrator user. I am not sure there's a point in formatting again without knowing what else to do.

How can I check my ownership or get to own my C drive?
Click to expand...

You never have to create an administrator user. The administrator account exists by default on a Windows 7 install, but it is disabled. Perhaps....are you trying to create an administrator account when you install Windows 7?

I have installed Windows 7 many times on an SSD, and have never had the issues you are describing. What are your BIOS/UEFI settings for the SSD, or rather the port the SSD is on?

Also...when you are formatting it...are you going into advanced options, deleting any partition data, and letting the Windows 7 install process create a new partition, and then also formatting it? Or are you trying to copy/clone data over?
 
No, I didn't create any account on my second format/install.

Yes, I went into advanced options and deleted everything on my second install. Not necessary on my first one. W7 created the new partition and formatted it. Never tried to copy/clone anything on it, because I was advised not to.

I'm not sure about the port the SSD is on, but it's in AHCI mode.
 
No, I didn't create any account on my second format/install.
Click to expand...
I have no idea what you have done but as you can see, no one else has these type of problems.

I'm going to suggest you start from the get-go and do a fresh install on a fully (long) formatted disk.

Don't bother with anything less than 64bit w7, format it in GTP, and don't have any other drives connected during the install.

Read up on using over 2TB drives as a boot drive and go from there.

With everything you have done, for all I know you're just digging your hole deeper.

Good Luck!


PSSS.....
That's right: the large disk is not the boot disk, and very sorry for mixing the issues.
Click to expand...

I missed that part but the rest of my advice still goes. Forget about mixing XP + w7 + 2TB drives.

While it probably can be done it may be easier for the more experienced user.
 
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Getting back to the large HDDs management, and as I imagined it might happen, there are some problems with Windows XP.

At first Windows Explorer saw one "part" of the HDD, but said it wasn't formatted, which it is. Then I run DiscWizard to see if it did anything. The "smaller" part was not allocated at all, so I did that.

Then the small one showed up, formatted and all. But the large one still seems "unformatted".

What do you suggest I should do?

I think I will have to re-install XP, changing the BIOS SATA Mode, which is now IDE for it, onto AHCI.

Do you think that might solve the problem of these new large HDDs?
 
carlmart said:
Getting back to the large HDDs management, and as I imagined it might happen, there are some problems with Windows XP.

At first Windows Explorer saw one "part" of the HDD, but said it wasn't formatted, which it is. Then I run DiscWizard to see if it did anything. The "smaller" part was not allocated at all, so I did that.

Then the small one showed up, formatted and all. But the large one still seems "unformatted".

What do you suggest I should do?

I think I will have to re-install XP, changing the BIOS SATA Mode, which is now IDE for it, onto AHCI.

Do you think that might solve the problem of these new large HDDs?
Click to expand...

No. The problem is that MBR has a 2TB limit. GPT is needed to access anything over 2TB. XP, AFAIK, cannot access GPT partitions without 3rd party software.

I think we've already stated...the suggestion is to dump XP in favor of Win7. Do a fresh install of 7, since you obviously have problems with that as well. That said, I would switch to AHCI as well.
 
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