make the 9800xt perform like a new GPU?

[G'ßöö]

being somewhat peeved that I bought into the "HL2 voucher / ATI 9800xt" combo in january...I'm not overly impressed with the benchmarks this card is getting. My question is to the OC'ers of this card. is it an absolutely needed upgrade to water cool it or OC it at all? Is it performing that much better or sell this puppy and get out of dodge now? I don't see too much info on this and I hate to say it but I'm not too impressed with it in D3 for the price tag

thnx in advance!

 

[UltimateMan]

the fact of the matter is, if you paid full price ($500) for that card this year, there are now cards out for $400 that almost double it's performance.

see this thread to see my benchmarks between the 9800xt and 6800gt.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=796009

so whether or not you are happy with your card's performance is up to you. But you can get alot more performance for that kind of money right now.

and by the way, OCing with water cooling ect, the OC would give you maybe a 5-10% performance increase, maybe 500-800 3dmarks. you still won't come close to the newer cards. spend the money you would on better cooling on a new card if u gotta have better performance.

 

[AMDXP]

Why would you pay so much and its only 10% better then a 9800pro fo a game that has taken longer then the trip to the moon to come out and back again?

Your lucky my friend paid 550 I just thave to laugh when the 9800pro was being sold for 300-350 then.

 

[theelviscerator]

what is the rest of your system like and what kind of numbers are you getting now..?

 

[joemama]

Your best bet is to Ebay that thing (there are still people who think it's the top card) and then use the money for a 6800 Ultra or X800XTPE.

on the other hand....if you don't let benchmarks get to you then the 9800XT is still a viable card even for the latest games..

 

[Circuitbreaker8]

the fact of the matter is, if you paid full price ($500) for that card this year, there are now cards out for $400 that almost double it's performance.

see this thread to see my benchmarks between the 9800xt and 6800gt.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=796009

so whether or not you are happy with your card's performance is up to you. But you can get alot more performance for that kind of money right now.

and by the way, OCing with water cooling ect, the OC would give you maybe a 5-10% performance increase, maybe 500-800 3dmarks. you still won't come close to the newer cards. spend the money you would on better cooling on a new card if u gotta have better performance.

Depending on how far he overclocked, he can get a lot more fps. This is why you never pay full price for these videocards! Unless your stuck with a G4MX, there really isnt a reason to buy a videocard right when it comes out, b/c in six months it will be 100$ off and all the bugs will be sorted out. Anyways, I bought my 9800 non pro last year for 250$, flashed to pro using the gigacube bios, got a VGA silencer, and OCed the hell out of it. I hit the wall of 486/760 Thats a 106mhz OC on the core, and 40mhz on the memory. Not to shabby if you ask me. My 3dMark03 score went from 5,800 to 7,300 Now, the dude with 9800XT, just DL the new 4.8 drivers and overclock, you can still squeeze a lot out of your card, which is still considered high end.

 

[UltimateMan]

Depending on how far he overclocked, he can get a lot more fps.

I didn't say he couldn't. My point is that he can overclock the crap out of it and it still won't bench 11,000 like for example a 6800GT, and it still won't run doom 3/far cry/hl2 like a newer card.

Great overclocking can yield 10-15 fps more on average, and that is GREAT overclocking on a video card. Not much more than that though...

Still a very good card, but obviously if he were 100% happy with teh investment he wouldn't have started the thread...

 

[cornelious0_0]

Depending on how far he overclocked, he can get a lot more fps. This is why you never pay full price for these videocards! Unless your stuck with a G4MX, there really isnt a reason to buy a videocard right when it comes out, b/c in six months it will be 100$ off and all the bugs will be sorted out. Anyways, I bought my 9800 non pro last year for 250$, flashed to pro using the gigacube bios, got a VGA silencer, and OCed the hell out of it. I hit the wall of 486/760 Thats a 106mhz OC on the core, and 40mhz on the memory. Not to shabby if you ask me. My 3dMark03 score went from 5,800 to 7,300 Now, the dude with 9800XT, just DL the new 4.8 drivers and overclock, you can still squeeze a lot out of your card, which is still considered high end.

Alright, there are a few flaws in what you're saying here:

1) the 9800Pro/XT are typically capable of some decent overclocks with their respecitve stock coolers, but not typically anything fantastic that's going to increase his fps in Unreal2k4 or Doom3 by more then 10%. there are always exceptions, and of course nicer overclocks are possible with something like that VGA Silencer, but even then.....REAL WORLD performance doesn't increase THAT much.....it does, but not nearly as much as you're making it out to sound like. A 3DMark03 jump of 5800 to 7300 is significant, but realise that not even CLOSE to most 9800's can hit those kinds of levels.....and while a 1,500 increase in 3DMark03 is nice, it does NOT translate into incredible gameplay advantages. I could overclock my old 9800XT from 412/730 to 461/810 and see about 1,000 point gain in 3DMark03, leaving me just short of 7,600. However, even with my overclocked P4 in my sig, the overclocked card didn't show very pleasing results in most game tests. I realise that you're talking about a 9800NP that you modded, but the logic remains the same. Even with an "out of the ordinary" overclock liek what you got with an aftermarket cooler, a 9800NP/Pro/XT is still nowhere close to the performance levels of even a stock X800Pro. With the way prices are right now I'd say that it's EASILY worth the extra cash (in USD or CDN) to choose a 6800NU/GT over a 9800Pro right now.....you're not only gaining from the obvious speed advantages we're seeing today, but you'll be "futureproofed" for that much longer, and you'll be able to start reaping the benefits of some of the newer technology as it is implemented.

2) Saying that in six months prices will be down $100 and "all the bugs will be worked out" is one of the most ridiculous assumptions I've heard in awhile.....not ridiculous because i dont think it'll happen, but ridiculous because you're saying it like you KNOW prices are going to drop, and you KNOW all the "bugs" will be worked out. You (or any of the rest of us for that matter) are in no position to try and forcast the future, especially with the way the market has been turned upside down with shortage issues and high demand for new hardware as of late. The way you're saying you shouldnt buy ANY video card right away is simply nonsense.....as things are always speeding up in the market, and nothing is the same twice in terms of price fluctuations and product availability. It is true that it usually takes some time for things to materialise and calm down with new hardware, but to simply pick a timeframe of 6 months and sound confident about it is just wrong.....we'll find out when we get there.

3) Technically the 9800Pro/XT isn't really considered high end anymore. Whether or not the new cards are very availably, they're still out, and they have already reshaped the way we look at different economical classifications of video cards. High end cards today are the 6800Ultra and X800XT-PE, nothing more. The mid range and UPPER midrange cards today consist of the 6800NU, 6800GT, and X800Pro.....all with varying levels of performance. This does not mean that I'm going to call a 9800Pro low end, but its sure not AS midrange as any of the others listed above. At best, I'd pair the 9800Pro/XT up with the 6800NU, beyond that the graphs start to widen out dramatically and the class is split apart. Lower end and Upper low end cards still consist of things in the range of a FX5200/9200 up to a 5700/9600 class card, as not much has really happened with these markets as of yet. A better term for the 9800's right now would be a good "bang for the buck" card.....not highend. I dont even consider the 9800XT a lot anymore because the way the prices on it haven't moved at all, its often still sitting (price wise) along side (if not more expensive) the 6800GT's and X800Pro's of today....which is just wrong. The falling (again, price wise) 9800Pro is what we're really looking at here, as its the only one that really falls into a proper place in the market when you look at prices the way they are.

In short, NO, there is no way to make a 9800XT perform like any of today's newer GPUs. This is often possible when a new LINE of cards launch, because there is seldom very much seperating the top two cards in the lineup. However, there is SOOOO much technological/hardware differences between these two generations of cards that you can't even TRY to place them on the same playing field. No reasonable level of modding/cooling/overclocking is going to bring a 9800XT up to the performance of an X800 or 6800GT of today, so it's best not to think about it. Suck it up if you have to and drop the extra cash on a new card. Even a 6800NU would be a wise choice at this point.....it might be offering somewhat similar performance as the late 9800's....but you have on your side all the new technologies/capabilities of the new line of cards.

What someone does is up to them, but I really wish people knew what they were talking about and clarified things a LITTLE bit more when someone needs a question answered.

 

[Circuitbreaker8]

Alright, there are a few flaws in what you're saying here:

1) the 9800Pro/XT are typically capable of some decent overclocks with their respecitve stock coolers, but not typically anything fantastic that's going to increase his fps in Unreal2k4 or Doom3 by more then 10%. there are always exceptions, and of course nicer overclocks are possible with something like that VGA Silencer, but even then.....REAL WORLD performance doesn't increase THAT much.....it does, but not nearly as much as you're making it out to sound like. A 3DMark03 jump of 5800 to 7300 is significant, but realise that not even CLOSE to most 9800's can hit those kinds of levels.....and while a 1,500 increase in 3DMark03 is nice, it does NOT translate into incredible gameplay advantages. I could overclock my old 9800XT from 412/730 to 461/810 and see about 1,000 point gain in 3DMark03, leaving me just short of 7,600. However, even with my overclocked P4 in my sig, the overclocked card didn't show very pleasing results in most game tests. I realise that you're talking about a 9800NP that you modded, but the logic remains the same. Even with an "out of the ordinary" overclock liek what you got with an aftermarket cooler, a 9800NP/Pro/XT is still nowhere close to the performance levels of even a stock X800Pro. With the way prices are right now I'd say that it's EASILY worth the extra cash (in USD or CDN) to choose a 6800NU/GT over a 9800Pro right now.....you're not only gaining from the obvious speed advantages we're seeing today, but you'll be "futureproofed" for that much longer, and you'll be able to start reaping the benefits of some of the newer technology as it is implemented.

2) Saying that in six months prices will be down $100 and "all the bugs will be worked out" is one of the most ridiculous assumptions I've heard in awhile.....not ridiculous because i dont think it'll happen, but ridiculous because you're saying it like you KNOW prices are going to drop, and you KNOW all the "bugs" will be worked out. You (or any of the rest of us for that matter) are in no position to try and forcast the future, especially with the way the market has been turned upside down with shortage issues and high demand for new hardware as of late. The way you're saying you shouldnt buy ANY video card right away is simply nonsense.....as things are always speeding up in the market, and nothing is the same twice in terms of price fluctuations and product availability. It is true that it usually takes some time for things to materialise and calm down with new hardware, but to simply pick a timeframe of 6 months and sound confident about it is just wrong.....we'll find out when we get there.

3) Technically the 9800Pro/XT isn't really considered high end anymore. Whether or not the new cards are very availably, they're still out, and they have already reshaped the way we look at different economical classifications of video cards. High end cards today are the 6800Ultra and X800XT-PE, nothing more. The mid range and UPPER midrange cards today consist of the 6800NU, 6800GT, and X800Pro.....all with varying levels of performance. This does not mean that I'm going to call a 9800Pro low end, but its sure not AS midrange as any of the others listed above. At best, I'd pair the 9800Pro/XT up with the 6800NU, beyond that the graphs start to widen out dramatically and the class is split apart. Lower end and Upper low end cards still consist of things in the range of a FX5200/9200 up to a 5700/9600 class card, as not much has really happened with these markets as of yet. A better term for the 9800's right now would be a good "bang for the buck" card.....not highend. I dont even consider the 9800XT a lot anymore because the way the prices on it haven't moved at all, its often still sitting (price wise) along side (if not more expensive) the 6800GT's and X800Pro's of today....which is just wrong. The falling (again, price wise) 9800Pro is what we're really looking at here, as its the only one that really falls into a proper place in the market when you look at prices the way they are.

In short, NO, there is no way to make a 9800XT perform like any of today's newer GPUs. This is often possible when a new LINE of cards launch, because there is seldom very much seperating the top two cards in the lineup. However, there is SOOOO much technological/hardware differences between these two generations of cards that you can't even TRY to place them on the same playing field. No reasonable level of modding/cooling/overclocking is going to bring a 9800XT up to the performance of an X800 or 6800GT of today, so it's best not to think about it. Suck it up if you have to and drop the extra cash on a new card. Even a 6800NU would be a wise choice at this point.....it might be offering somewhat similar performance as the late 9800's....but you have on your side all the new technologies/capabilities of the new line of cards.

What someone does is up to them, but I really wish people knew what they were talking about and clarified things a LITTLE bit more when someone needs a question answered.

I dont see how the 9800xt isnt considered high end. Sure its not a x800xt or 6800U, but what game even pushes the 9800xt? I havnt played one game without AA on my 9800p. I played Doom 3 @ 1280x1024 2xaa 8xaa ( high quality ) and averaged 30-50fps. I played FC@1280x1024 all settings maxed. My point is he still has a great card, and there really isnt anything out/coming out that looks like it will strain it. It seems like you're basing all these cards by benchmarks and which one gets the highest 3dmark03 score b/c there are no GAMES coming out that strained my card. BUT I dont play at 1600x1200 with 6xAA 16xAF, and I dont think thats worth 500$. And the prices WILL drop in 6 months, your crazy if you think they're still gonna be 400$+ for the 6800gt and 500$+ for the ultra/xt. The 9800p dropped from like 400 to 320$ after like 7 months after it came out.

 

[Chaballaman]

I dont see how the 9800xt isnt considered high end. Sure its not a x800xt or 6800U, but what game even pushes the 9800xt? I havnt played one game without AA on my 9800p. I played Doom 3 @ 1280x1024 2xaa 8xaa ( high quality ) and averaged 30-50fps. I played FC@1280x1024 all settings maxed. My point is he still has a great card, and there really isnt anything out/coming out that looks like it will strain it. It seems like you're basing all these cards by benchmarks and which one gets the highest 3dmark03 score b/c there are no GAMES coming out that strained my card. BUT I dont play at 1600x1200 with 6xAA 16xAF, and I dont think thats worth 500$. And the prices WILL drop in 6 months, your crazy if you think they're still gonna be 400$+ for the 6800gt and 500$+ for the ultra/xt. The 9800p dropped from like 400 to 320$ after like 7 months after it came out.

lol "I played Doom 3 @ 1280x1024 2xaa 8xaa ( high quality ) and averaged 30-50fps." u cant get 50fps on 1280x1024 2xaa high on d3 with 9800pro. anyway is it 30 or 50fps? there is big difference.. try "timedemo demo1 1". anyway i wouldn't play d3 with that settin on ur card. at least turn off aa.

9800xt is a sxxx card to buy now, get 6800nu for less n faster, newer card with more features..

 

[theelviscerator]

I think a better question would be "What resolution do you want to run at? And what framerate do you need at that resolution?"

 

[HRslammR]

the high end of one generation is always 3rd best come the next generation.

so is my observation.

 

[cornelious0_0]

the high end of one generation is always 3rd best come the next generation.

so is my observation.

You're pretty much right there, and congrats to anyone who made it through my post....I haven't had a long one like that in awhile.

I dont see how the 9800xt isnt considered high end. Sure its not a x800xt or 6800U, but what game even pushes the 9800xt? I havnt played one game without AA on my 9800p. I played Doom 3 @ 1280x1024 2xaa 8xaa ( high quality ) and averaged 30-50fps. I played FC@1280x1024 all settings maxed. My point is he still has a great card, and there really isnt anything out/coming out that looks like it will strain it. It seems like you're basing all these cards by benchmarks and which one gets the highest 3dmark03 score b/c there are no GAMES coming out that strained my card. BUT I dont play at 1600x1200 with 6xAA 16xAF, and I dont think thats worth 500$. And the prices WILL drop in 6 months, your crazy if you think they're still gonna be 400$+ for the 6800gt and 500$+ for the ultra/xt. The 9800p dropped from like 400 to 320$ after like 7 months after it came out.

Dude, you obviously have a VERY different definition of "stress" when it comes to video cards and games, because technically, FarCry, Halo, and even Splinter Cell can stress a 9800Pro and bring it to its knees at decent resolutions/AA-AF levels. Many people ahve their own needs in terms of FPS.....but to say that there is nothign that stresses your card IS a false statement, you just dont expect enough out of your card to necessarily care about the effects these games have on the 9800Pro. I know what kind of framerate I get with my sig system (when I had my 9800XT) and I highly doubt you're able to actually get up to 30-50fps with 1280x1024 2xAA high detail with a 9800Pro. I'm asuming that you're gathering that you're running 30-50 fps while you're playing.....in which case the 50fps would be those small areas of the game with no enemies where its easy for the game to run smooth. I know how my game ran at 1280x1024 High detail with NO aa.....and I HIGHLY doubt that you're even keeping it above 30fps with 2xAA with your card. While the timedemos might not bring certain aspects of the game into play, it still gives you a reference point to go on in terms of your FPS....b.ecause just having FRAPS running while you're playing is worse.....cus then you end up saying your fps is 30-50....which really means nothing, cus that's a HUGE range.

I just dont see how in the world you can say that you dont think there's anythign out or coming out that will stress the 9800XT....there already is dude, and there're more games on the way.....you just have a really strange definition of what stressing a video card is. If a game was not stressing a video card, you'd be able to run at 16x12 res with AA and AF and still have the game run at 60fps+.....which is not the case with Doom3, FarCry, and many other games already available. the point REALLY is that there ARE many games that are perfectly able to bring the 9800Pro/XT to its knees....and there's are more on teh way. What you're doing is making the card out to sound a hell of a lot nicer then it really is, because its not nearly as future proof as your naive assumptions are suggesting.

Dude, you're going way overboard here, if you actually read what I said, I didnt say that prices will NOT drop.....I'm just saying that you're in no position to say that they WILL.....because the market is in a completely different place in terms of supply/demand and shortages then it was when the 9800Pro launched.....and things might take more or less time to settle down, you just do NOT know, no matter what YOU think. I have no doubt that the prices will soon start to come down, but the cards must be more then slightly available for that to happen.....and we're not even quite there yet.....so dont hold your breath is all I'm saying.

I just think that you seriously need to rethink the way you're looking that things here. There are plenty of things that push the 9800XT already available.....and you're questioning it like you deny it to be true. I also played FarCry at 1280x1024 Ultra detail with my 9800XT.....and it did run fine, but it averaged 45-50fps withOUT any AI in the tests.....which is NOT my definition of smooth gameplay.....as its very noticeable when you zoom in with a sniper rifle and teh fps goes from 60+ to 35 or 40. having low points like that show that the card is already being pushed for all its worth.....or else it wouldnt BE slowing down like that. Its still a great card, but the 9800XT is simply NOT able to run through FarCry, Doom3, Halo, and others without being brought to its knees.....its going to happen.....you just need to refine how you think about/see things being stressfull to a card. Hell, its quite easy to bring a high end P4/A64 setup with an X800XT or 6800U to its knees in Doom3.....so I would NEVER call the 9800XT able to handle these games without being stressed.....cus there is more then enough within the Doom3 engine to bring the 9800XT to its knees, maybe you just dont want to accept it....I dunno.

I'm not judging these cards based on 3DMark scores, but listen to what you're saying. By saying "I dont see how a 9800XT isnt considered high end" you're saying that it should be placed in the same catagory as the 6800Ultra and X800XT cards....because as much as you might not want to accept it.....THEY are what's high end, the 9800XT is still a great card, but its nowhere close to a X800XT, the price on the 9800XT is still quite ridiculous.....and it is simply no longer a high end card. The "out of whack" price of the 9800XT is the only thing classifying it as an upper-midrange card....because that's what it is when you look at the performance.

Argue any of these points if you wish, but you'll be going nowhere.....I'm speaking nothing but the truth, and you know that I am....which is the problem. You just do NOT want to accept the fact that your 9800 isn't nearly as "up there" as you originally thought...in the larger scale of things.

Rest up and come back to me when you've done a little bit more reading and you can actually back up what you're saying with some facts and legitamit reasons as to why the 9800XT cannot be stressed in todays games, and why it should still be classified as a "high end" card.

 

[MLF]

I had a 9800 np and upgraded to a 6800 GT now if you say the XT is still high end consider a few other numbers my 9800np got at most 130 fps in Q3 at 1280x1024 4x FSAA Max aniso my 6800 GT gets 99 fps in Q3 at 2048x1536 with the same FSAA and aniso. The same is true for all the older games. Even C&C generals is playable at those settings. If you play at 1024x768 all the time then xt will last a while longer but to play at high res and turn everything up the 6800 GT is more than twice as powerful and no amount of overclocking is going to make up for the difference in memory speeds 1000mhz DDR3 vs 730mhz DDR2.

 

[cornelious0_0]

If you play at 1024x768 all the time then xt will last a while longer but to play at high res and turn everything up the 6800 GT is more than twice as powerful and no amount of overclocking is going to make up for the difference in memory speeds 1000mhz DDR3 vs 730mhz DDR2

This is exactly true, and I'm glad to see someone else here how knows what they're talking about. If you DO only play at 1024 all day long then by all means, pick up a dirt cheap 9800Pro and be happy. If you're planning to play any newer games, or older games at 1280 res or higher with any kind of AA/AF then i have on idea why you woudl even consider a 9800 card right now.....the performance is nowhere close. It doesnt really matter what resolution you game at, that doesnt change the classification of a card. Whether or not you're going to make use of afew thigns in the 9800Pro/XT the cards still are what they are. Even if you're just gonna be gaming at 1024 res, the cards are still what they are, and the 9800XT as a card in todays standings is NOT a high end card.....no matter what way you look at it. The way I look at it though is that why the hell are you going to be playing with no AA or AF at 1024 res if you're buying a new video card today? Obviously cards like teh 6800GT and 9800Pro are meant for slightly different people, but they still do have to be classified on a larger scale.....and the 9800XT (performance wise) right now is sitting in the upper-midrange area of cards.

 

[SPARTAN VI]

...and it did run fine, but it averaged 45-50fps withOUT any AI in the tests.....which is NOT my definition of smooth gameplay.....as its very noticeable when you zoom in with a sniper rifle and teh fps goes from 60+ to 35 or 40. having low points like that show that the card is already being pushed for all its worth....

Man, I'm used to playing everything at 30fps, playing Xbox for 3 years does that to you. Anyway I'm perfectly happy with playing any game at 30+fps.. I'm used to it.

 

[MLF]

Yes xbox plays at 30 frames but on a pc and when benchmarking i.e. a timedemo you need to average much more than 30 frames to not have visible slowdown at points where their are lots of video card stressing 3D or processing intense gameplay. Where as the xbox plays at 30 frames and games are designed specifically for the platform and to not dip below acceptable frame rates. While a PC game especially these multiplayer games we are talking about can have many times more players and thus more action resulting in more explosions fire etc. This drastically slows down gameplay and is why you need to have a lot more power to play the online games than you would think. Just think about running Q3 timedemo 1 on an older system at one point where their are multiple rocket explosions and several characters running around on screen many older graphics cards jerked and slowed down to a much lower framerate. Then when the demo reaches an area with no effects and no other characters it runs much faster. This slowdown while it may seem minor and has little effect on the FPS, which could be well over 60, would kill a user going up against another player whose PC maintained a high frame rate through the same level of detail and the same resolution.

 

[G'ßöö]

I think a better question would be "What resolution do you want to run at? And what framerate do you need at that resolution?"

so true!!!! very good point as each person's opinion differs. and thanks cornelious0_0 ...great info. take something outta petty cash for yourself and the day off! I am a picky player that demands high rez and ultra smooth gameplay. I just can't seem to crank this where I want it but the card does kick (_x_)

Cheers!

 

[cornelious0_0]

thanks cornelious0_0 ...great info. take something outta petty cash for yourself and the day off!

YAY!!!