Macbook Pro user considering switch to Alienware m18x

[LearninToBuild]

Any users out there own Mac and Alienware machines?

I'm running a 15'' Macbook Pro, late 2008 model. I suspect by holiday season I'll upgrade. Here are the two machines I'm considering, then I'll ask a few questions below. Each configuration is intentionally ~$2,600 for comparison purposes.

Summary: Macbook Pro (2011 model)
Processor: 2.2GHz Quad-core Intel Core i7
RAM: 4GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM
HD: 500GB Serial ATA Drive @ 7200 RPM
GPU: AMD Radeon HD 6750M with 1GB GDDR5

Summary: Alienware m18x
Processor: Intel® Core™ i7 2720QM 2.2GHz (3.3GHz w/Turbo Boost, 6MB Cache)
RAM: 4GB Dual Channel DDR3 at 1333MHz
HD: 320GB 7200RPM SATA 3Gb/s
GPU: Dual 2GB GDDR5 AMD Radeon™ HD 6970M - AMD CrossFireX™

Questions
1. Obviously I know machine two is better for gaming. However, the Mac model has made significant strides in improving for gaming -- with Boot Camp installed, it's simply a matter of graphics power. I haven't researched the GPU's, but it seems that Alienware has a newer (but not worldly better) GPU, albeit two of them, but would the Macbook Pro's run most games much better than adequately?

2. Macbook Pro's resolution is 1920x1200 on a glossy 17'' screen, compared to Alienware m18x's 1920x1080 on an 18.4'' screen. By any measurable standard, isn't 1920x1200 a better resolution?

3. Does anyone know the precise cooling mechanisms of the new Macbook Pro models? My current 15'' 2008 model Macbook Pro gets LOUD and hot running games, fortunately I've never had a Windows screen of death -- I do worry of overheating however. I'd assume Alienware cools markedly better utilizing dual GPU's? It is an 11 pound machine with a brick for a power block...just wondering about the cooling mechanisms between each and any cause for concerns?

Thanks for any insight that can be shed to assist with my decision. I tried to form my thread in a clean format and I truly could not find a head-to-head review of the two machines yet (m18x is relatively new).

 

[Patman]

I have the 2011 mbp with the 2.3ghz quad. The system uses two fans one for CPU and one for GPU. I use SMCFanControl to intentionally turn up the fan speed to the max. I figure while I am gaming I either 1) have headphones on 2) have the speakers up at a volume I can't hear it at anyways. I've played WoW for hours on end to find the system around 70C (fans 5500 RPM, laptop on flat desk)

Everyone freaks out about fan noise but between headphones or a decent speaker system its hard to notice.

1) that Alienware is a purpose built gaming machine, its going to waste the MBP in that department. However, the MBP is a vastly better overall machine between mobile capabilities and design if you enjoy that aspect of a laptop.

2) I think resolution is mostly preference, I cannot comment on the quality of the panel vs Alienware but I know many people prefer the 16:10 resolution of the MBP vs the 16:9 in the alienware

3) read above

 

[LearninToBuild]

Thanks for the reply.

Regarding the fan application you use, may I ask why? I thought that the fans naturally kick on to the required level of intensity based on the stress of the GPU? So, wouldn't it naturally arrive on max if you are gaming? I assume you just hit "max" or similar when you begin gaming and nothing else, and then when you cease, you disable the fan application?

70c is something you are 100% comfortable with?

Setting aside OSX, the MBP is so much lighter and professional looking, plus, I have a predisposition against Windows-only machines after some bad recent luck with blue screens/hardware failures etc.

I hope someone here owns the m18x to comment on the cooling, what temps they run etc.

 

[dextr3k]

I think Patman has the right of it, to me, these are 2 pretty different machines.

I dont own a m18x, but I can tell you its heavy, loud, hot, and overall a desktop replacement. I think instead of comparing temps, you should be thinking about if you see yourself gaming at one location more, or using desktop/OSX apps more.

A purpose built gaming machine vs an everyday desktop machine. The OSX with its resolution would be a slightly better for applications and desktop usage, but in games I doubt you will see a difference between the 2 save performance.

I think if you exaggerate the conditions a little, it might help you decide.

Compare a $2000 gaming tower, with crossfire video cards, vs a $2000 iMac. The imac has better (ish) screen, less power overall, but a bit more portability, while the gaming tower has better performance in games, neglible differences in desktop applications, and.....barely any portability. Which factors do you see yourself taking advantage of more?

 

[LearninToBuild]

Compare a $2000 gaming tower, with crossfire video cards, vs a $2000 iMac. The imac has better (ish) screen, less power overall, but a bit more portability, while the gaming tower has better performance in games, neglible differences in desktop applications, and.....barely any portability. Which factors do you see yourself taking advantage of more?

I stay booted in Windows (on my current 15'' MBP) 70% of the time. I go through cycles though -- for a while I stayed in OSX because I'd use Windows at work. Obviously for FPS gaming I use Windows.

I don't use the MBP for design purposes. I bought it for portability, build quality and the stability of the OS. Windows 7 is quite stable however, it's certainly no Vista.

I can't make a decision yet. If I knew that the beast m18x could cool say 50% better with markedly lower temps, I'd likely go for it because my MBP isn't going anywhere and I can still use OSX if I need to... I've just got bad experiences lately with Windows based rigs. Also, it may be preference but I think 1920x1200 is actually much better than 1920x1080. I didn't think I'd be alone in that.

 

[Mr. Wolf]

Do you really plan on hauling around that 12 lb. m18x on a daily basis? If you're not a committed "on the go" gamer, you'd get a much better gaming machine at much less expense with a Win 7 desktop. I think your fears about Windows-only machines are unfounded. Win 7 is extremely stable and easy to use.

 

[ToastyBread]

A purpose built gaming machine vs an everyday desktop machine. The OSX with its resolution would be a slightly better for applications and desktop usage, but in games I doubt you will see a difference between the 2 save performance.

Just to point out, while overall I find OS X to be the more-enjoyable OS, from an "application perspective", Windows still has the better software library. Couple that with the fact that the m18x is by-far the superior gaming system, and with regards to those issues at least, it's not really much of an argument.

That having been said, as you and others pointed out, from a portability standpoint, the MBP has the m18x beat hands down, both in overall quality and in ease-of-transport, so it would come down to whether or not the machine will mostly stay in place or not.

I can provide some valuable experience in this regard though: I have a Dell XPS m1710 that I bought back in spring of 2007 as my portable gaming system. 17" screen, 1920x1200 resolution, and all-told I think it weighed in (with adapter) at around 10ish lbs. Between its thickness and weight, it wasn't very portable, and honestly I actually regret purchasing it (it cost me around $2600 at the time), given how annoying it has been to move it from one location to the other.

Honestly, my own opinion would be: max-out the 15" MBP spec-wise (as it's comparable to the 17" outside of screen size), take the savings in cost between the two and drop it on a higher-quality monitor that you could use as the primary display when at home/etc.

Compare a $2000 gaming tower, with crossfire video cards, vs a $2000 iMac. The imac has better (ish) screen, less power overall, but a bit more portability, while the gaming tower has better performance in games, neglible differences in desktop applications, and.....barely any portability. Which factors do you see yourself taking advantage of more?

A $2000 gaming tower will almost certainly be equipped with a better CPU, graphics cards, etc., and thus depending on the applications used, it'll likely score significantly better than the iMac in most computing areas. It's also somewhat amusing to comment on the "portability" of either machine, as most wouldn't consider hauling around a 27" all-in-one as very convenient.

@ LearninToBuild: Honestly, I'd spec-out the MBP as much as you desire/can afford/etc., and go with that. Higher build quality, the benefit of easily running both Windows and OS X, etc.

 

[LearninToBuild]

Thanks ToastyBread. I've actually had my eye on a 27'' Cinema Display for a while. I even bought a Twelve South Book Arc to use as a dock for my MBP in case I bought one, but I haven't pulled the trigger since I've been eying the Alienware system and absent a special costly converter, the cinema display would only work on my Mac.

I think Apple needs to lower its prices slightly now that Windows 7 has been proving itself as a worthy adversary. Ultimately, for basically the same price I could have dual 2GB video cards + a bigger hard drive, that's something that sticks out to me.

 

[Ashton]

I'm gonna say the same thing everyone else is. If you NEED the power of the alienware, then get it, but realize your going to be hauling around a massive laptop... (and for some people, this isnt an issue. I had an older model Dell (HP?) that was atound 10 lbs and I used a backpack to carry it and barely noticed it most of the time.

If you dont really need the power, and prefer OSX, then stay with the macbook line.

I cant comment on the durability of the Alienware, I've never seen them tested, but I'd say they're less sturdy than a Macbook based on what I've seen in stores (but if your going to take good care of it, that wont matter)

I think Toasty has the right idea, if you have the cash, just max the specs on a MBP (certainly what I'd do)

 

[ToastyBread]

Thanks ToastyBread. I've actually had my eye on a 27'' Cinema Display for a while. I even bought a Twelve South Book Arc to use as a dock for my MBP in case I bought one, but I haven't pulled the trigger since I've been eying the Alienware system and absent a special costly converter, the cinema display would only work on my Mac.

Honestly, unless you'd be *really* stuck on the desire to use the 27" Cinema Display, I'd consider something like the Dell U2711 as well. Others can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's actually using the same panel as what's in the 27" Cinema Display, and it far greater connectivity options. I've used some of Dell's professional line of monitors before, and while I know a lot of people harp on Dell's quality issues (myself included), they're higher-quality monitors are usually really nice.

I think Apple needs to lower its prices slightly now that Windows 7 has been proving itself as a worthy adversary. Ultimately, for basically the same price I could have dual 2GB video cards + a bigger hard drive, that's something that sticks out to me.

Apple has always been this way though. Outside of a brief period in the early 2000s when you could pick up entry-model PowerMacs at a decent price and the iBooks were a bit more affordable, Apple has generally always been higher-priced for hardware. It would be nice, but at the same time, it's partly that cost differential in hardware for why you'll see enthusiasts who will have Apple systems as their primary machines and then keep a nicely-spec'd PC for gaming/etc.. Honestly to me, the best combination is a nice gaming/etc. PC running Windows 7, with an Apple laptop of some kind for portability and general use.

I'm gonna say the same thing everyone else is. If you NEED the power of the alienware, then get it, but realize your going to be hauling around a massive laptop... (and for some people, this isnt an issue. I had an older model Dell (HP?) that was atound 10 lbs and I used a backpack to carry it and barely noticed it most of the time.

If you dont really need the power, and prefer OSX, then stay with the macbook line.

Yeah, I mean, carrying around my XPS was never much of an issue when it was just it. But if I tried loading up anything else into that backpack, etc., the weight added up quickly.

I cant comment on the durability of the Alienware, I've never seen them tested, but I'd say they're less sturdy than a Macbook based on what I've seen in stores (but if your going to take good care of it, that wont matter)

I think Toasty has the right idea, if you have the cash, just max the specs on a MBP (certainly what I'd do)

Well, the one "plus" to Dell (and Alienware's by extension) more performance-oriented lineups is that they tend to sink higher-quality components into them. My XPS, for all the crap I give it/say about it, is still running well to this day, still looks great, etc. I tend to take care of my equipment really well, but overall I've been happy with the durability of it.

But yeah, the max-spec MBP would be the way to go to me at least. It'll be interesting to see how the MBAs get updated soon, but I suspect they'll be using the integrated graphics that com with Sandy Bridge, and thus for LearningToBuild's uses, likely not sufficient. The other benefit is that the MBA could have a SSD added that'll give it the performance of the MBA but with better graphics and an optical drive (for if/when he'd ever need it).

 

[100inch]

As far as alienware laptops, or any gaming laptop, they never really dissipate heat well enough. But, they only have to do it well enough to make a majority of them last the warranty. If you look at the specs between the two i'd imagine max wattage of the alienware is much higher and therefore would need much better cooling to begin with and even without cutting corners it would be hard to dissipate that much heat.

Gaming laptops sink their money into hardware because they are competing against other gaming laptops for 'value'. Apple doesn't compete as directly. Dell has put some bad screens and poor quality equipment on a lot of their laptops, including their alienware and xps lines especially compared to the last 5 years of macbooks. To assume the alienware cools better is probably a bad assumption.

You should consider a 15" MBP if you want something portable. You can always use an external monitor with it.

 

[ToastyBread]

As far as alienware laptops, or any gaming laptop, they never really dissipate heat well enough. But, they only have to do it well enough to make a majority of them last the warranty. If you look at the specs between the two i'd imagine max wattage of the alienware is much higher and therefore would need much better cooling to begin with and even without cutting corners it would be hard to dissipate that much heat.

Desktop-replacement laptops are usually fine when it comes to cooling - the large size and greater thickness allows for greater cooling. My XPS m1710, when under load, tends to be fairly loud, but usually only gets slightly-warm. That's the plus/minus to desktop-replacements: they have good/better cooling, but tend to be loud. A lot of people tend to wear headphones when gaming/working/etc. as a result.

Gaming laptops sink their money into hardware because they are competing against other gaming laptops for 'value'. Apple doesn't compete as directly. Dell has put some bad screens and poor quality equipment on a lot of their laptops, including their alienware and xps lines especially compared to the last 5 years of macbooks. To assume the alienware cools better is probably a bad assumption.

Um, seriously? While there's no doubt that Apple's laptops are generally better designed that many of the budget/mid-range PC models, the above is a bit of a stretch. In the last 5 years, Apple has had to deal with: bulging batteries, failing GPUs, keyboard malfunctions, flickering/yellowing screens, etc.

I mean, the MacBook (not MBP) is a case-study alone in how to not go for style over substance: the rate at which it suffers yellowing of its polycarbonate case, coupled with warping, cracking and breaking plastic, is atrocious.

Then there's the unibody MBPs, where the case/exterior itself is designed to aid in the dissipation of heat. So what do people do? They go and put rubber/plastic shells over the case in order make it "prettier", only to then suffer problems later. While that isn't Apple's fault per-say, they sell the cases in their stores, and I've been in Apple stores at times and heard employees recommend them to people.

Ultimately, I still think it generally comes comes down to taking care of something, not dropping it/spilling liquid on it/etc., etc. Thankfully these aren't eMachines.

 

[100inch]

Um, seriously? While there's no doubt that Apple's laptops are generally better designed that many of the budget/mid-range PC models, the above is a bit of a stretch. In the last 5 years, Apple has had to deal with: bulging batteries, failing GPUs, keyboard malfunctions, flickering/yellowing screens, etc.

I mean, the MacBook (not MBP) is a case-study alone in how to not go for style over substance: the rate at which it suffers yellowing of its polycarbonate case, coupled with warping, cracking and breaking plastic, is atrocious.

Then there's the unibody MBPs, where the case/exterior itself is designed to aid in the dissipation of heat. So what do people do? They go and put rubber/plastic shells over the case in order make it "prettier", only to then suffer problems later. While that isn't Apple's fault per-say, they sell the cases in their stores, and I've been in Apple stores at times and heard employees recommend them to people.

Ultimately, I still think it generally comes comes down to taking care of something, not dropping it/spilling liquid on it/etc., etc. Thankfully these aren't eMachines.

Yes, seriously. The amount of money spent on the quality of parts compared to the hardware is much higher on a unibody macbook than any dell. Dell could not compete if they spent as much money on the chassis as apple, people would look at the specs, laugh and go to a different brand. There have been mishaps with every brand, apples have not been that big. (The GPUs was an nvidia problem and was not isolated to apple or laptops.)

Its not about who has better build quality because if you have spent a lot of time with both it isn't a close race. Its about whether build quality matters to the buyer.


Gaming laptops will be loud and will have better cooling. But, don't mistake that for adequate cooling because there are definitely laptops, and almost all of them are gaming laptops, that do not have proper cooling. It takes a hell of a lot more than being loud and having better cooling than a laptop that consumes 1/3 as much power.

Also, im surprised your 1710 still works, fans, power supply and all. They were not built to great in my opinion. Especially the power supply. But the laptop he spec'd out consumes far more power than the 1710. I'd actually estimate twice as much. Either way he should keep on eye on the temperatures.

 

[ToastyBread]

Yes, seriously. The amount of money spent on the quality of parts compared to the hardware is much higher on a unibody macbook than any dell.

I'm sorry, but unless you have something more than plain blind fanboy logic to back up the claim that the hardware is of "much higher quality" than that used in any Dell, it's a little hard to believe you. Would I take the hardware within most of Apple's product line over that of Dell's? Yes. However, Dell also specializes in hardware across an entire range of products, and to rule out their high-end equipment without any evidence to back it up is just ignorant at best. I at least have experience with said hardware, given I've used Dell workstations, Dell XPS desktop systems and XPS laptops (of which I own one, as I've mentioned several times).

Also, remember that Apple's hardware isn't coming from some magical factory - a lot of their hardware is manufactured and assembled by Foxconn, and many other components come from the likes of ASUS, etc. Remember how Apple and many others suffered through the nVidia GPU fiasco a few years ago? Yeah, clearly that was thanks to Apple's use of "higher-quality hardware" over everyone else.

Dell could not compete if they spent as much money on the chassis as apple, people would look at the specs, laugh and go to a different brand. There have been mishaps with every brand, apples have not been that big. (The GPUs was an nvidia problem and was not isolated to apple or laptops.)

Once again: Dell operates across several price regions, including high-end. You're essentially discounting EVERY Dell product because they also make low-end, low-cost crap. Does it suck? Yes. Does it tend to blemish their image? Yes. However, to discount every product they make as a result is ignorant.

Oh, and look at all the complaints from people with MacBooks due to discoloration, cracking, warping, etc., on Apple's own forums, on sites like MacRumors, AppleInsider, etc., and then try to come back and seriously say that Apple's have "not been that big".

Apple has A LOT of problems with their hardware, just as everyone else does. There's a reason the whole "Never buy a first-generation Apple product" concept still exists in some context. That having been said, Apple's customer service is far and away better than almost everyone else's, and hence why in the long-run, it tends to not be as much of a concern.

Its not about who has better build quality because if you have spent a lot of time with both it isn't a close race. Its about whether build quality matters to the buyer.

I have spent a lot of time with both. You, on the other hand, apparently have not, as you're just spouting out nonsense due to blind loyalty.

Gaming laptops will be loud and will have better cooling. But, don't mistake that for adequate cooling because there are definitely laptops, and almost all of them are gaming laptops, that do not have proper cooling. It takes a hell of a lot more than being loud and having better cooling than a laptop that consumes 1/3 as much power.

Apple's own products have issues with adequate cooling. Their Time Capsules and the old AppleTVs were notorious for overheating and dying. One of my closest friends had to mod on a 120mm fan in order to adequately cool his Apple TV. As already mention, the polycarbonate MacBooks have A LOT of issues with cooling, and the MBPs, while designed to decently cool the system (they still get rather hot, which is why myself and many of those power users who have them, have separate cooling devices for them), are prone to heat issues with something as simple as adding on an external case.

Yes, PCs of all brands, and all types, Apple, Dell, ASUS, Acer, etc., all have issues with cooling. That's why it's the responsibility of the consumer to check and make sure of such things if they're truly being diligent about finding a quality machine. I know someone with an Alienware laptop, and it hasn't caused any problems. And once again, as I myself have mentioned, I own an XPS m1710 and, while thick, heavy and sometimes loud, it's never had any issues with cooling (partly because it does have so many cooling fans and cooling outlets).

There's nothing wrong with having an Apple bias 100inch, but at least be a little more open-minded when it comes to offering the pluses and minuses of both approaches. "PCs suck man always get Apple" isn't really an good discussion. At least offer up actual evidence as to why this particular Alienware model he is interested in is so bad besides "Man I don't like Alienwares".

 

[100inch]

Dell's higher end brands are mainly an upgrade in hardware and sometimes flashy lights. My posts were not raging and very logical. If you disagree with them, which is hard to believe because nothing drastic was said, there is no need to act childish.

When did i say apple used higher quality 'hardware' than any one else. Specifying gpus? Laptop makers have 2 choices on which company and thats it. Also, it is not about where or who manufacturer a product. You can mis-engineer and cut costs or you can spend time, and money, perfecting the design and sink costs into things that don't fall into the specs.

You, on the other hand, apparently have not

Very wrong and there is nothing in my post that would make you think that. If you want to make a point try not to be childish.

You might be one of the only owners of that laptop that has not had the fans go out, power supply fail, or hinges break. Or you rarely used it and never moved it because the failure rate of the power supplies was near 100% early on(slight changes made it better). Dell has redesigned their power supplies lately though. The failure rate of the fans over a 4 year period is also almost 100% with constant use. The fans were not designed to last years of use. Are you on your first power supply? Have you gotten to the point where you have to jiggle it to get it to work? Might be even worse than the power supply cable being poorly engineering. It might be the cheap and poorly braced connector to the motherboard.
The difference between the xps and their other line was an upgrade in gpu and screen during that time period. Had nothign to do with build quality between there 'high-end' and 'mid-range'.


Apple has a limited product range, no direct competition, and is under the spotlight. They can do things other brands cannot. That does not mean other brands are junk. It means you are paying for the premium in build quality that the other companies do not have. When they try and build super preium quality laptops they get nailed for value and rarely sell. To say that apple has higher build quality than dell or alienware is something that would only be argued on internet forums.

Would I buy a mac for heavy gaming? No. Would I buy a laptop for heavy gaming? No. If I had to carry a laptop between work and home and game on it at both places i'd take the performance hit and go with 15" mbp, more ram, + SSD(aftermarket) and external monitors. Would I ever take better hardware and worse build quality over the opposite? Yes, within reason.

Also I do not think the alienware is a bad choice. It has far better specs. He has to be careful about a few things. It is not easy to dissipate that much heat even in perfect conditions.

One last thing, resolution and size isn't the only thing to be concerned about with monitors(black level, constant, color accuracy). And one is 16:9 and one is 16:10. If they were both the same size diagonally than the one that is closer to a square would be 'larger'. But 18.4 16:9 is still far more area than 17" 16:10.

 

[dextr3k]

Since the discussion has moved onto here. I will say that I do have a Dell XPS M1210 from 07. It also has not died, the hinges, power supply and basically all hardware is in top shape, save the outer casing. But I will admit, having had a lot of laptops in my experience, this Dell has been the only laptop I've suffered a hardware failure on, the screen started banding with 3 days left on the warranty, also had to replace a battery on it, but thats considered a consumable anyways.

I tend to not take sides, so I will say my iMac has had a screen (hmm....maybe i'm radiating something that causes screen deaths) replaced too due to discoloration. So build quality of components in my limited experience is approximately equal between dell and apple. =)

Everthing back on topic, its not a discussion about who has better/bigger sticks. I think OP already decided that the MBP + Cinema display was a good suggestion. Unless he has anymore doubts theres no point discussing build quality anymore....

on a side note, ToastyBread, this is for you. 10,000km portable 27" iMac. Brought it with me when I moved overseas.

 

[LearninToBuild]

I think OP already decided that the MBP + Cinema display was a good suggestion. Unless he has anymore doubts theres no point discussing build quality anymore....

I'm a pretty loyal Apple customer. I don't have many doubts as to overall build quality. The interior of a Mac Pro for instance is pretty awesome.

What I'm hoping to eventually see is a video where a user disassembles each laptop, shows you whats under the hood, explains in detail how well each one cools, stress tests, the whole 9 with gaming & multi-tasking reviews. Obviously the MBP loses the gaming test, I just wonder by what margin and how efficient each machine is with respect to heat dissipation. Maybe I'm expecting too much.

 

[jeremyshaw]

Ask NBR? Most AW users can be found there. Even Dell's AW forum is dead by comparison.

As for AW, you can always haggle for a discount. On an order as large as the m18x, likely at least 200usd off.

EVEN though the OP seems to have gone for a MBP + ACD, I'd recommend a m17x r3 over the m18x, if only because of the m17xr3's switching GPU (aoubt 4-5 hours of realistic battery life is reported by m17xr3 users in IGP mode) and because of it's slightly greater protability. Being usefully smaller doens't hurt. If I had to upgrade my laptop again, I'd probably go the mac route, to see if the 16;10 works better for me on laptops than desktops