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Macbook or Macbook Pro?
- Thread starter BrokenBoySoldier
- Start date
SteveW928 said:
I would quote what you wrote back but its too stupid to do so.
Face it, you can get anything you want in a PC notebook, you cannot do so with a mac. Worse with a mac you have to overbuy to get some options that should have already been available. (like 256 video memory on the base mbp? - can't do it - won't let ya)
never expect logic from a !!!!!!, you certainly proved that point for me.
Still think he should buy a refurb mbp
0ptional
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Shivetya said:
That was horrible trolling and you should go back to the Mobile Computing forums and discuss other notebooks if think they're so superior. Here we give advice on Apple Products, as the forum name suggests.
The OP asked which of the two would be bessed for him, and I'm sure he already did his research on PC notebooks too. Not to mention many people here already have used and love Apple hardware and software since before many of their current buying decisions. A decision like this could be an upgrade from an older Apple notebook for someone who doesn't like PC's for all the usual reasons and then some.
There is also a pricing model Apple gives to it's users to make it easier to purchase systems for the consumer. Their models are easily laid out and require no configuration besides RAM and HDD. Apple's model is different than that of the PC world, it always has been, and this new generation of Apple products that are based on the Intel architecture is not going to change that. Get it?
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Also, let see you dual boot OSX and Windows on your PC laptop 
Optional87 said:
Just thought I'd add something for shits and giggles to that:
Go to an Apple Store if you've got one in your area. Tell them you're interested in getting either a MacBook or a MacBook Pro, it doesn't matter which one really.
Tell them you'd like to max out the RAM on the laptop - it doesn't matter which one really - and wait for them to tell you the price on the RAM upgrade.
To go from 512MB to 2GB, or to go from 1GB to 2GB it's the same price for the in-store upgrade:
$600.
Yep, you read that right: $600 to put in 2GB of RAM right there in the store almost in front of you, letting you keep the 512MB (2x256) or the 1GB (2x512) they pull out of the stock machine.
$600 for RAM you can probably buy locally in your area for $200-225 + tax if you pay sales tax, or you can find online for $180-200 + tax + shipping if you pay tax and if shipping is required.
Sure, Apple "makes it easy" to do RAM upgrades (they don't do hard drive or video card upgrades in stores; RAM on any machine, but not hard drives or video card upgrades - you have to purchase more expensive stock models to do that) but they charge you an arm, a leg, half your brain and a kitchen sink to do it.
And there's no good reason to do such a thing: MacBook or MacBook Pro RAM swaps take 5-10 mins, and certainly not worth a $400 premium just because the geek in the back room knows how to swap RAM sticks.
I've owned a MacBook, and a MacBook Pro, and a 20" iMac recently. I returned them all because they had issues I won't go into here. I appreciate what Apple is trying to do, but absolutely fucking over their customers and reaming them and raping them for cash just to do a relatively simple RAM upgrade for 3x the cost of the RAM at standard retail... well, that's simply unforgiveable.
</off-topic>
So far I'd say the OP would be better served with the MacBook Pro, Core 2 Duo powered, and max out the RAM by purchasing it locally and putting it in yourself for the above noted reasons.
0ptional
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MrGuvernment said:Also, let see you dual boot OSX and Windows on your PC laptop
Make that: "Also, let's see you legally dual boot OS X and Windows on your PC laptop
"Running windows on a Mac is legal. Running OS X on a PC is not. Not that I want to use Windows anymore, but it's hard to avoid...
0ptional
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bbz_Ghost said:
Umm, last I checked it was 175$ to install 2GB of memory in a MacBook that comes with 1GB stock or 250$ to install 2GB in the base MacBook that comes with 512MB.
And umm all the MBP's besides the base model come with 2GB of RAM, and it's only 175 to bump that up to 2GB in that one.
If you want 3GB in an MBP that's up to you, but I think that's ridiculous and no matter where you go it'd be expensive. That's 1x2GB stick and 1x1GB stick, lets price that out... ok hmm. 1GB is just around 120$ on the egg, but a 2GB stick runs...actually newegg doesn't have any, let me look elsewhere...ok I found one for some 560$ here.
So it's 680$ to buy the memory elsewhere to put 3GB in the MBP, a savings of 70$ from Apple, worth it? Probably not because you'll have to swap your memory if you need to have warranty work done on your MBP anyway.
So everything you said was pretty close to umm, wrong.
Nowhere do I see a 400$ premium for using Apple's parts. In the end 70$ for a purchase this size isn't that much considering the peace of mind that Apple 100% guarantee's all it's parts under warranty and will replace/repair anything you throw at them.
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evs said:
Exactly.
Apple's prices are fair in my book.
BrokenBoySoldier
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i personally think that Apple's pricing is fair for the quality they offer
Shivetya said:
OK... I hate to even respond any more to this... but maybe you should put your money where your mouth is... I get sick of all this PC babel.
Show me a PC laptop that has all the stuff a MacBook does... where you can pick your choice of video card and video RAM... and swap them at will (OK... even though you talked like that... I won't hold you to that last point... lol). Oh... then maybe point out where I can get one and the price!
I haven't done extensive research on the topic... but I've never really heard of or seen anything like this. (Well, other than the big bulky 'performance' lap-weights that look like a boy-racer should own them... and probably need a few Marvel comic stickers to complete the ensemble.)
Is Apple going to compete with some barebones Microcenter brand or even a Dell? Probably not always. But, then again, I have NEVER seen one of those machines hold up like an Apple either. You just have to go talk people who do presentations on the road... and you'll find they NEVER buy most of those brands... they just aren't reliable enough. When you start going with quality PC brands, you'll find the pricing quickly falls in-line with Apple.. or more.
bbz_Ghost said:
I'll concede the point that Apple has way overcharged for RAM at points on certain models. But, like others have said in response... this is not really one of those times. I was just looking at this with a friend the other day. I typically tend to buy them at base config, and add my own RAM... but right now, one would be hard pressed to save any money going that route. Apple has some killer prices on RAM really.
Also... you might search and find some Internet prices on RAM from no-name places. If you want to go that route... more power to you. But, RAM is one of the most critical things in your system... and one of the most troublesome in my experience. You can spend weeks or months trying to track down a RAM problem. It is one of the hardest things to find.
I always buy RAM from a place I know (Cricual, Newer Tech, OWC, etc.) that I have worked with, and who I know will give me no problems with an exchange. This way, 99% of the time I don't have a return, and when I do, I have no problems doing it. And... I've worked with a LOT of RAM over the years. (oh... and I consider my time to be worth something... saving $50 on RAM to spend weeks messing with it is NOT a deal.)
Optional87 said:
Hehe... true. If you are a good little hacker, you actually can make OSX run on a PC. One of my friends even got it going on an AMD box I think.
But, with Apple prices these days, it hardly pays. I don't think most PC heads realized how good the prices really are for what they are getting these days. I also don't think many of them realize how powerful the Core Intel processor are compared to what they are used to.
They seem to see 2 GHz, and think 'mobile' processor.. and think their P4s are still faster.
-Steve
GnomeCop
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I recieved my macbook yesterday and while I do think apple doesnt offer as many flavors as PC, they are still excellent systems for what they are targeting.
It seems like the apple pre-defined configuration systems are usually the best values, even though the upgrade prices are decent now.
For work machines, content creation, and everyday computing they can be as good if not better than a comprable PC. Am I completely converted, not by a longshot. After all I'm here at a site like hardocp...
I'll never give up my gaming desktop. A core2duo overclocked to 3.6ghz with a Geforce 8800GTX? Gaming on that is just too great of an experience to blindly follow one side.
Apple products do have one great thing about them that anyone can enjoy. Their production value is some of the best I've seen from any computer product, even down to the packaging. Hahah that really shows some thought and effort.
It seems like the apple pre-defined configuration systems are usually the best values, even though the upgrade prices are decent now.
For work machines, content creation, and everyday computing they can be as good if not better than a comprable PC. Am I completely converted, not by a longshot. After all I'm here at a site like hardocp...
I'll never give up my gaming desktop. A core2duo overclocked to 3.6ghz with a Geforce 8800GTX? Gaming on that is just too great of an experience to blindly follow one side.
Apple products do have one great thing about them that anyone can enjoy. Their production value is some of the best I've seen from any computer product, even down to the packaging. Hahah that really shows some thought and effort.
0ptional
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GnomeCop said:
Honestly it's pretty unfair to compare a MacBook to an overclocked Core 2 Duo rig with an 8800GTX at the helm...
GnomeCop
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OK, obviously you read the post but failed to comprehend it. I said each machine is great for it own uses, I have my mac for work stuff, my PC for gaming.
Flak_Monkey
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Optional87 said:
Obviously it's unfair to compare them, but Apple offers nothing to compare a gaming PC too. That's the whole reason why he made that comparison in the first place.
From what little time I've spent on Macs, I enjoyed it and had no trouble. The operating system is definitely more sound than XP. However you cannot satisfy a hardcore gaming session with anything mac has to offer. Although they are getting closer with Intel hardware allowing XP to run, but that's still Windows XP, not OS X.
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winston856 said:
The MacPro's are getting there, but because of Apple's use of EFI instead of standard PC firmware, it makes PC card makers less inclined to make them Mac compatible. They do have the X1900XT and the high end Quadro's, neither of which are slouches, but of course the PC and the Windows platform will continue to dominate the computer gaming genre.
I never said Mac was trying to fill the void either, they don't advertise their computers as gaming computers where as there are many computer builders dedicated to building "gaming computers."
GnomeCop said:
That's cool... I have a gaming PC and a MacBook as well, I don't compare them because they have their own uses. I took it more as a comparison saying that the MacBook was inferior because of it's hardware and obviously I misunderstood, I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to make you look bad or whatever this post is supposed to be defending...
ANYWAY~
Yeah did you check my post earlier about software I use and enjoy daily on my Mac? I'm sure you would love VirtueDesktops and a few others. Stuff that Windows XP and Vista have nothing even remotely close to right now.
My post is here: http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1030239380&postcount=16
It was in a thread for a guy comparing 2 PC notebooks to a MacBook and deciding which one he would pick in the end.
winston856 said:
Yes, I agree... Apple hasn't focused on the gaming computer for sure. That is such a specialized area, that even if they did, it would be tough. The whole attitude around this is in tweaking. It would kind of be like Honda trying to make a factory street racer... kind of defeats the whole point. Once you leave the 'gaming PC' market, you just buy an PS3 or XBox.
On the other hand.... I think the new Mac Pros have more computing power than just about any gaming PC... it is just set up for different purposes. Same for servers... until recently, Apple just didn't have a server class machine that most IT folks would implement. The previous generation xServe was nice, but was missing some key things like ILO support, dual power supplies, etc. Because of this, we've had many Unix and Wintel type servers in our server room, and Macs have been there mainly as support and script type machines that weren't mission critical. This is beginning to change with the new xServes.
Also, at home, I have a PC running Linux and MythTV. I specially built it up to do what it does, and it does it quite well. I'm not really against PC hardware... I mainly don't like Windows (though I spend a good bit of every day admining Windows servers.). However, there are few honest people on any side of the fence that won't admit Apple's hardware is top notch.
About the only good point Shivetya makes is that, at least with the MacBook, Apple didn't offer as many 'build' options as they do with other models, or have in the past. For example, you can't add or delete the SuperDrive off certain models, etc. But, I think this is one of the ways they keep costs as low as possible, but still offer such a great machine.
-Steve
I think all the hardware that Apple offers, like Steve said is top-notch. Its just that what they include in their computers, laptops and whatever else, is not necessarily what is featured in the usual PC computers or laptops. I mean they had bluetooth standard way earlier, and they use this standard as a default for their peripherals. And this is only one instance.
Its not what they offer is bad, its just different to what other PC''s would offer, and I think it's part of their marketing campaign. The centre of their image is that they provide seemless hardware and software.
It can be compared to luxury cars. They don't necessarily have more features than any toyota, and toyota makes pretty mluxury cars anyway, but its just different.
That's me rambling.
Its not what they offer is bad, its just different to what other PC''s would offer, and I think it's part of their marketing campaign. The centre of their image is that they provide seemless hardware and software.
It can be compared to luxury cars. They don't necessarily have more features than any toyota, and toyota makes pretty mluxury cars anyway, but its just different.
That's me rambling.
bbz_Ghost said:
It's kinda sad when and if I have to quote myself to point out something several people missed before saying I'm wrong - which of course I'm not. I didn't say anything about buying anything online, I said "Go to an Apple Store if you've got one in your area."
I know the prices for RAM upgrades are cheaper online, that's the whole point of my post and the comment "Go to an Apple Store if you've got one in your area."
For those customers that prefer to get it right then and there, on the spot, Apple reams them three ways from Sunday just because they want to purchase the same RAM in a local store, which is where the unforgivable part comes in.
So the top 'o the line MacBook with 1GB is $1499 online, make it 2GB to go and it's $1674 - and you don't get the original 2x512MB sticks either. Buy that same laptop in a local Apple Store and the price is $2099 out the door, with the original 2x512MB sticks in your pocket too.
That's what I'm talking about: the incredibly insane premium Apple charges people for a relatively simple RAM upgrade done in-store; I never said anything about buying online.
You'd think in today's Internet-powered society people could read the text in front of their faces with some level(s) of comprehension... and you'd be wrong.
SteveW928 said:
Steve, I like your posts a lot, and I'd like to see you stick around, so don;t forget about Rule 25.
(25) You are allowed one signature per post. A signature section is supplied for that usage. No one wants to see your name on your posts multiple times as it is annoying.
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deum! wish my company would buy me new laptops often i got the same dell 9100 for the last 2 years
i got the same dell 9100 for the last 2 years Flak_Monkey
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never mind, I'm blind
Flak_Monkey
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Hey I'm at my local macstore posting from a black macbook pro right now. The glossy screen is kind of annoying because I'm right next to a window but this keyboard is pretty sweet.
This is the 2.0GHz C2D with 1GB of RAM and a 120GB HDD. It's got all the goodies on along with iWork and Office 2004 (word, excel, PP).
The battery life with bluetooth off and wireless on with the screen brightness 4 clicks down from the top is boucing between 3:15 and 3:40. I don't know if it was fully charged but it was plugged in when I got here.
It's not too bad on this 13.3" screen, I though it was going to suck but it works out really well because of the 1280x800 res.
The
The mac guy's only asked me once for help too.
I also played around with the camera as well as word, excel and PP. It's all pretty nice. I'd just like to get counter-strike on one of these things.
Cooool!
Later
This is the 2.0GHz C2D with 1GB of RAM and a 120GB HDD. It's got all the goodies on along with iWork and Office 2004 (word, excel, PP).
The battery life with bluetooth off and wireless on with the screen brightness 4 clicks down from the top is boucing between 3:15 and 3:40. I don't know if it was fully charged but it was plugged in when I got here.
It's not too bad on this 13.3" screen, I though it was going to suck but it works out really well because of the 1280x800 res.
The
The mac guy's only asked me once for help too.
I also played around with the camera as well as word, excel and PP. It's all pretty nice. I'd just like to get counter-strike on one of these things.
Cooool!
Later
0ptional
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winston856 said:Hey I'm at my local macstore posting from a black macbook pro right now. The glossy screen is kind of annoying because I'm right next to a window but this keyboard is pretty sweet.
This is the 2.0GHz C2D with 1GB of RAM and a 120GB HDD. It's got all the goodies on along with iWork and Office 2004 (word, excel, PP).
The battery life with bluetooth off and wireless on with the screen brightness 4 clicks down from the top is boucing between 3:15 and 3:40. I don't know if it was fully charged but it was plugged in when I got here.
It's not too bad on this 13.3" screen, I though it was going to suck but it works out really well because of the 1280x800 res.
The
The mac guy's only asked me once for help too.
I also played around with the camera as well as word, excel and PP. It's all pretty nice. I'd just like to get counter-strike on one of these things.
Cooool!
Later
Haha yeah they know what they're doing there and you mean a Black MacBook, they don't have Black MBP's unless you buy from ColorWare.com for a lot more money haha, and then it's only painted not anodized like I wish it were, OH WELL!
So you like the MacBook right? The base models are great and 1GB is a good amount of memory, but 158$ for the extra gig is a great upgrade and highly reccomended.
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Optional87 said:
Yeah, I meant macBook, sorry must've been caught up in the moment
They had the macbooks and the macbook pro's on the same table and I was staring at a macbook as I was typing that.
Overall I liked the macbook, I spent about 15 minutes messing around with photobooth, office 2004, I liked the dashboard utility too. I configured that macbook's dashboard to open when I moved the mouse to the bottom right of the screen.
The prices online and at that store were the exact same though, I didn't ask how much 2GB's of RAM would be, not $600 I imagine lol.
I might go back there again if i have some free time later this week.
0ptional
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winston856 said:Yeah, I meant macBook, sorry must've been caught up in the moment
They had the macbooks and the macbook pro's on the same table and I was staring at a macbook as I was typing that.
Overall I liked the macbook, I spent about 15 minutes messing around with photobooth, office 2004, I liked the dashboard utility too. I configured that macbook's dashboard to open when I moved the mouse to the bottom right of the screen.
The prices online and at that store were the exact same though, I didn't ask how much 2GB's of RAM would be, not $600 I imagine lol.
I might go back there again if i have some free time later this week.
Prices are the same online and offline, and if you live in a state with an Apple B&M store, you have to pay tax online and offline so it really doesn't make sense to buy online unless you want an HDD upgrade which you can do yourself if you do end up finding the stock HDD is too small.
bbz_Ghost said:
I was definitely quoted the same price online as in the store where I bought my MacBook. I ended up buying my memory elsewhere though because at the time Fry's had a great deal on 2x1GB Patriot SODIMM PC5300 for 199$+tax which Apple wasn't going to beat. In the store I got the same price as online with or without upgrades (except in the store they can't do HDD upgrades) except at the store I didn't have to pay shipping (no free shipping deal at the time), and I still got my student discount.
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Optional87 said:
Well, on apple's website they are charging $175 to upgrade to 2GB's of ram. Newegg wants $200 for the cheapest 2GB set.
I think I'm just going to order it online because they have free shipping and I don't need it in a hurry.
Flak_Monkey
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I forgot to mention one thing that really bothered me today and other times when I've used macs is that when you're browsing the internet or using word when you go to maximize the window it won't go past the Dock.
The doc eats up a substantial amount of screen space. Is there any way to hide it or make the window cover it?
The doc eats up a substantial amount of screen space. Is there any way to hide it or make the window cover it?
DaCoOlNeSs
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go into the dock prefs, and set it to auto hide
evs said:
Hehe... yea, I've been collecting a list of things Apple pioneered over the years, or at least was VERY influential in the success of:
GUI
Mouse
Laser Printer
PDA
Laptop (Mac Portable -> Sony -> PB 100) well, unless you count NEC DOS laptop
Digital Camera
Wireless (at least made popular - Airport)
On-line music purchase
On-line TV - video purchase
Made USB popular
Got rid of floppy.... well, I guess the PC world is still working on that one...
I'm sure I'm missing some. Please add to my collection.
bbz_Ghost said:
Huh? I've never noticed a difference between the 'in-Store' and 'on-line' pricing, other than shipping. I suppose there could be an install fee at the store?
Anyway... something doesn't sound right there... maybe you mean something else... shall I re-read your posts again???
CEpeep said:
Oopps... busted! Sorry, habits are hard to break. When you write hundreds of posts and e-mails per day... and always 'sign' them.... anyway, I'll try to remember.
MrGuvernment said:
Hehe... yes, it is a nice perk. They keep us in good equipment. I guess when a lot of the servers and stuff we work on run in the $50k to $100k range... a $2-3k laptop is a drop in the bucket. Plus, we kind of always get the latest thing, and then they pass them down the line. It's good to be the IT kings.
winston856 said:
Another REALLY cool feature of the OS, is Expose. I don't think I could live without that anymore... At first, it seems kind of like a wiz bang flashy type feature... but after you get used to using it... it completely changes how you see what is going on and switch apps / windows.
In my 'operations' role at work... it is not unusual for me to be monitoring 10 to 20 other machines via Timbuktu, as well as all the other things I have going on. With Expose, I can keep an eye on all of them at once if needed... or quickly get to just the one I want.
Flak_Monkey
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Would Expose be installed on that macbook do you think? Or is it seperate from OS X.
Flak_Monkey
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CEpeep said:
How do you access it ?
GnomeCop
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dont you just press the F9, f10, or F11 keys?
I may be wong, I've only been using mac for 2 days
I may be wong, I've only been using mac for 2 days
Oopps... sorry folks... I forget so many are so new to Max OSX here..
Go to System Preferences, and then the Dashboard and Expose settings. Then you can set up screen corners or keystrokes.
Yes, I think it is set up on some of the highest function keys by default. I like 'All Windows' set to upper right screen corner and the click wheel (mouse button 3)... that is the one I use the most. The next most is 'Desktop', which moves everything out of the way so you can get at your desktop. I have that on F12.
Go to System Preferences, and then the Dashboard and Expose settings. Then you can set up screen corners or keystrokes.
Yes, I think it is set up on some of the highest function keys by default. I like 'All Windows' set to upper right screen corner and the click wheel (mouse button 3)... that is the one I use the most. The next most is 'Desktop', which moves everything out of the way so you can get at your desktop. I have that on F12.
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So is that Macbook/Macbook Pro fan speed mod for the Core Duo line or the Core 2 Duo line.
I read the link where the mod originated and it was dated in september, so are the fans on the Core 2 Duo book's fixed?
I read the link where the mod originated and it was dated in september, so are the fans on the Core 2 Duo book's fixed?
0ptional
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winston856 said:
They were fixed in the Core Duo line as well with an SMC Firmware update.
So yes, the fan issues are fixed.
Flak_Monkey
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Yeah I was curious because the macbook at the macstore didn't get hot at all. Not even warm
'Course, I guess I wasn't stressing it too hard though lol
'Course, I guess I wasn't stressing it too hard though lol
Hehe... if you stress them, the will warm up and the fans will come on... even fairly loudly if it is really working hard... but that it what it is supposed to do.
It is kind of hard, I suppose, to get the fans tuned perfectly so they scale up with the heat, stay as quiet as possible, give best battery life, etc. Most of these tweaks have just been kind of smoothed out that operation.
I don't think we had a MacBook before the very first update, so I can't give personal experience. But, I think the fan operation is quite good on it now. My first MBP had some fan issues that were kind of crazy, but the updates really took care of that. My only compliant is that I think they let it heat up a bit too much before scaling up (but, the MBP is kind of a different animal with the metal case that acts like a heat sink.
There is a little app called smcFanControl that you can DL and set the speed of your fans (anything above the RPMs the automatic system wants). I sometimes bump the fans from 1k RPM to 2k RPM and can't really hear them at either speed in my office, but the MBP runs quite a bit cooler to the touch then. Though, on colder days, it is kind of nice to have it be a bit warm... my own personal hand warmer.
-Steve
It is kind of hard, I suppose, to get the fans tuned perfectly so they scale up with the heat, stay as quiet as possible, give best battery life, etc. Most of these tweaks have just been kind of smoothed out that operation.
I don't think we had a MacBook before the very first update, so I can't give personal experience. But, I think the fan operation is quite good on it now. My first MBP had some fan issues that were kind of crazy, but the updates really took care of that. My only compliant is that I think they let it heat up a bit too much before scaling up (but, the MBP is kind of a different animal with the metal case that acts like a heat sink.
There is a little app called smcFanControl that you can DL and set the speed of your fans (anything above the RPMs the automatic system wants). I sometimes bump the fans from 1k RPM to 2k RPM and can't really hear them at either speed in my office, but the MBP runs quite a bit cooler to the touch then. Though, on colder days, it is kind of nice to have it be a bit warm... my own personal hand warmer.
-Steve