Macbook or Macbook Pro?

[Fryguy8]

Why can't they just make a 15" macbook instead of pro.

I dont' need graphics, I just want a bigger screen for productivity.

 

[SteveW928]

I'm really considering buying a macbook just so I can get the best of both worlds. I'm not ready to buy a laptop yet but when I do I think it'll be a macbook. As long as it can play counterstrike I'm good

I don't know a thing about Counterstrike... but, as it is likely to be a game, just make sure the GPU in the MacBook can handle it. Remember, it doesn't matter if you are running OSX or Windows... the hardware is still the same hardware. The GPU just isn't built for running the intensive, high FPS games... or doing stuff like OpenGL CAD, etc. It is find for more typical computing or watching a DVD, etc.

-Steve

 

[SteveW928]

I just figured that the hl1 engine is pretty old, but I guess the graphics solution is pretty crappy in a macbook...

Well, it isn't so much a matter of being crappy... just more like what it is... an integrated GPU that isn't built for advanced 3D. I actually does really well for other stuff, and even will play HD video, etc.

Here is a cool site with lots of performance comparisons on Mac hardware:
I'm linking to a page that compares Core Duo to Core 2 Duo MacBooks... but you can see what happens when they get into the 3D gaming.

http://www.barefeats.com/mbcd8.html

As you can see... not a whole lot of difference between CD and C2D processors. But, the MB falls way behind the MBP, or even the older PowerBooks when the 3D games come up. But, this is because the other models have specialized GPUs for that.

If you don't need that though.. the MB is one wicked fast laptop for its price.

-Steve

 

[SteveW928]

Is there a bigger battery I can buy that would give me longer life?

Umm... there might be some 3rd party makers that pack 5 to 10% more Amp/hrs into their batteries, I haven't checked for the MacBook yet (there are for PowerBooks and iBooks). But, you could also buy an extra battery to carry along with you and swap it out part way through the day.

-Steve

 

[SteveW928]

Thanks.

I've been customizing macbooks on apple's website and it's become apparent to me that they like to try and rape you on the HDD pricing...

A couple notes on HDDs....

1) I think it is pretty easy to swap out hard drives on the MacBook... so you could probably upgrade the drive in the future without too much trouble (ie: you don't have to disassemble half the machine like in the past...)

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1750

2) also just an FYI that larger sizes give you more disk speed... maybe even more than the 7200 RPM drive... which I don't like because they are noisy and suck more batteries.

http://www.barefeats.com/mbcd7.html

-Steve

 

[SteveW928]

Why can't they just make a 15" macbook instead of pro.

Hehe... I suppose... and there are also people complaining that they don't make a 12" Pro.

However, the MB really isn't all that much smaller than the 15" MBP. Its less than an inch depth, and only about an inch width... and they are about the same thickness.

-Steve

 

[Flak_Monkey]

Well, it isn't so much a matter of being crappy... just more like what it is... an integrated GPU that isn't built for advanced 3D. I actually does really well for other stuff, and even will play HD video, etc.

Here is a cool site with lots of performance comparisons on Mac hardware:
I'm linking to a page that compares Core Duo to Core 2 Duo MacBooks... but you can see what happens when they get into the 3D gaming.

http://www.barefeats.com/mbcd8.html

As you can see... not a whole lot of difference between CD and C2D processors. But, the MB falls way behind the MBP, or even the older PowerBooks when the 3D games come up. But, this is because the other models have specialized GPUs for that.

If you don't need that though.. the MB is one wicked fast laptop for its price.

-Steve

Well thanks Steve, you've really stepped up to the plate here and I thank you for fielding my questions.

I really am quite surprised that you don't know anything about counter-strike. It used to be (and still is) one of the most popular PC games out on the market.

Anyway, The original counter-strike was made in 1997 I believe, so the graphics engine is very old. In that link you supplied me they were testing the macbook with Quake 4, Doom 3 and UT2004 which were all released in 2003 or after.

Based on that statement I believe that the macbook should be able to handle counter-strike just fine.

One of the last things I'm looking at regarding the macbook is the choice of processor speeds.

I can get a 1.83GHz model with a 120GBHDD 2GB's RAM $1550 on apple's site. The next model is the 2.0GHz chip with the same 120GB HDD, 2GB's RAM and it's $1627. So you figure $77 dollars for 200MHz but what is that going to cost me in battery life?

Should I go for 200 more Mhz? What would that cost me in battery life? 10-20mins+?

 

[evs]

Hehe... I suppose... and there are also people complaining that they don't make a 12" Pro.

However, the MB really isn't all that much smaller than the 15" MBP. Its less than an inch depth, and only about an inch width... and they are about the same thickness.

-Steve

yeh. that's why i went with the MBP. its not that much bigger.

Interesting that you talk about a 12" MBP. If you go here http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/12/20061204034048.shtml there are rumors of a new 'ultra-thin' 12" MBP.

 

[Shivetya]

You could, but some people dont want the extra weight and size and lower battery life.

the weight isn't different enough to be noticable....

 

[evs]

the weight isn't different enough to be noticable....

its something like 200 grams more i think....i have no idea how much that is in pounds...sorry

 

[Shivetya]

Why can't they just make a 15" macbook instead of pro.

I dont' need graphics, I just want a bigger screen for productivity.

The same reason they don't offer graphics in a regular Macbook.


Money, they can make tons of it as most Mac fans will put up with lack of customability. You can do these things when you have a monopoly on a product

 

[CEpeep]

SteveW928, why in God's name did you just post 5 times in a row? Use the edit function if you want to add more quote replies, not a new post.

 

[BrokenBoySoldier]

Does the black macbook come with the isight camera?

 

[Flak_Monkey]

SteveW928, why in God's name did you just post 5 times in a row? Use the edit function if you want to add more quote replies, not a new post.

Cause he's a n00bie trying to get some postcount his posts are pretty quality so it doesn't bother me

Does the black macbook come with the isight camera?

Yes, they do.

 

[0ptional]

Does the black macbook come with the isight camera?

It definitely does

In fact all the Mac notebooks have them.

 

[Flak_Monkey]

One of the last things I'm looking at regarding the macbook is the choice of processor speeds.

I can get a 1.83GHz model with a 120GBHDD 2GB's RAM $1550 on apple's site. The next model is the 2.0GHz chip with the same 120GB HDD, 2GB's RAM and it's $1627. So you figure $77 dollars for 200MHz but what is that going to cost me in battery life?

Should I go for 200 more Mhz? What would that cost me in battery life? 10-20mins+?

Could somebody provide some insight on this ?

 

[0ptional]

Could somebody provide some insight on this ?

Battery life between the two MacBook models is very negligible, the 2.0ghz is the max speed the processor will run at, not what it will run at when you're really on the go.

remember that these processors clock throttle very intelligently, much better than previous processors and their efficiency per clock makes up for running at lower speeds on the go.

 

[BrokenBoySoldier]

It definitely does

In fact all the Mac notebooks have them.

that's creepin' me out

 

[0ptional]

that's creepin' me out

Glad to hear it.

My humongous Audio Technica ATH-A900's probably didn't help much either... of course neither did my smile, lack of shave, and photo effect... but meh.

I was in the laundry room in the midst of calibrating my battery and just did just about everything to get that battery to drop so I could let the MacBook sit and charge to full over the next couple of hours.

 

[BrokenBoySoldier]

i got one more question about the macbook...i've decide to get the black macbook with 1Gb Ram and 180Gb HDD, i read somewhere that office for mac runs slow with 1Gb of Ram...can anyone confirm/deny this...cheers

also that picture ain't that bad...

 

[0ptional]

i got one more question about the macbook...i've decide to get the black macbook with 1Gb Ram and 180Gb HDD, i read somewhere that office for mac runs slow with 1Gb of Ram...can anyone confirm/deny this...cheers

also that picture ain't that bad...

ok yeah umm, 180gb hdd? the 160gb uses perpendicular recording so that'd be faster than the 180gb one. that's a huge ass hdd for a notebook too oh man.

anyway yeah office runs fine with 1gb, 512mb is painful though, it's emulated through rosetta which only gets better with more memory.

 

[Flak_Monkey]

Thanks again.

I have a couple more little questions.


1. If I bought a macbook off of apple's store, does it come with the operating system disc? Or does the OS just come pre-installed and I have to buy my own disc.

2. Can I plug in my logitech G5 mouse or any regular 2 button mouse and use it in OSX ? Or do I have to buy a special apple mouse?

 

[SteveW928]

The same reason they don't offer graphics in a regular Macbook.
Money, they can make tons of it as most Mac fans will put up with lack of customability. You can do these things when you have a monopoly on a product

LOL.... and of course all the PC laptops allow for easy swap out of GPU or Screens... LOL.... yep, that greedy Apple, you really do have to keep an eye on them.

Cause he's a n00bie trying to get some postcount his posts are pretty quality so it doesn't bother me

Hehe... no... it's because it was just a lot easier than doing this... if I even did it right. I don't care much about post count.

I also don't really do any PC gaming at all... only on my PS2... so don't know many of the games other than a few I always hear about... so no coutnerstrike for me

i got one more question about the macbook...i've decide to get the black macbook with 1Gb Ram and 180Gb HDD, i read somewhere that office for mac runs slow with 1Gb of Ram...can anyone confirm/deny this...cheers

Hmm.... I suppose it depends on what 'slow' is. I think Office is slow on any machine, which is why I tend to use other products like Nisus Writer Express, Keynote, etc. (even though I own Office 2004). I mainly use office for compatibility when necessary. Though, it isn't so much its actual speed... as I just think they are slow to use and kind of crumby apps (on either platform). But... I digress.

Anyway... there are two points here. One, is that Office is not 'native' code yet... so it does take up more RAM and is a bit slower in general (mostly on launch) than it will be when native sometime in 2007. But, it certainly is fully usable. I don't really notice a difference between it on my MBP and my PowerBook.

I have a MBP for work, and have 1 GB RAM in it... and use it daily for 8-10 hours... and it works fine for everything I do. (I work in a IS/IT operations position for a fortune 50 dot.com). I think you'll be fine with 1 GB... but won't discourage you from getting 2 GB. More RAM never hurts... but I can't say you'll get a big boost between 1 GB and 2 GB unless you run a TON of apps, or use some apps that really need a lot of RAM. I find 1 GB is enough for most people... it is kind of the minimum sweet-spot.

-Steve

 

[0ptional]

Thanks again.

I have a couple more little questions.


1. If I bought a macbook off of apple's store, does it come with the operating system disc? Or does the OS just come pre-installed and I have to buy my own disc.

2. Can I plug in my logitech G5 mouse or any regular 2 button mouse and use it in OSX ? Or do I have to buy a special apple mouse?

1. It comes with a box of DVD's that contain everything you need to re-install the OS.

2. People have varying success with non-apple mice if they have extra buttons and features.
I have a Bluetooth Wireless Mighty Mouse (Apple Mouse), and I rarely use it because the trackpad on MacBook's is so extremely useful.

Immediately enable two finger right click and two finger scrolling in your System Preferences - Mouse/Keyboard - Trackpad settings. They make things really nice and easy.

I don't miss my right click button at all, in fact I rather do it the apple way than the PC way now...

 

[SteveW928]

Thanks again.

I have a couple more little questions.


1. If I bought a macbook off of apple's store, does it come with the operating system disc? Or does the OS just come pre-installed and I have to buy my own disc.

2. Can I plug in my logitech G5 mouse or any regular 2 button mouse and use it in OSX ? Or do I have to buy a special apple mouse?

1) Yes, it comes with a DVD that has OS installer, as well as installer for bundled apps. It isn't exactly the same as buying a copy of OSX off the shelf, in that it only works on the MB.... but its fine for what you want it for. (also, the MB is pre-installed with everything too... but I sometimes just re-install myself anyway. Still, the imaged systems out of the box have been quite good.)

2) I'm not sure about the exact model of Logitech mouse... but I'd say generally yes. Every USB mouse type device I've ever used works fine. The only 'gotcha' here is that if the device has a bunch of special functionality, you might not be able to use it if they have not written and OSX driver.

OSX supports, from what I know, left/right buttons, scroll wheel, and I think scroll wheel click, with no drivers. The rest of special feature, you need to check with the maker for OSX drivers.

-Steve

 

[0ptional]

1) Yes, it comes with a DVD that has OS installer, as well as installer for bundled apps. It isn't exactly the same as buying a copy of OSX off the shelf, in that it only works on the MB.... but its fine for what you want it for. (also, the MB is pre-installed with everything too... but I sometimes just re-install myself anyway. Still, the imaged systems out of the box have been quite good.)

2) I'm not sure about the exact model of Logitech mouse... but I'd say generally yes. Every USB mouse type device I've ever used works fine. The only 'gotcha' here is that if the device has a bunch of special functionality, you might not be able to use it if they have not written and OSX driver.

OSX supports, from what I know, left/right buttons, scroll wheel, and I think scroll wheel click, with no drivers. The rest of special feature, you need to check with the maker for OSX drivers.

-Steve

Beat'cha!

 

[synergyo1]

Could somebody provide some insight on this ?

I apologize if you noted this already but...

The 1.83ghz only comes with a Combo drive, whereas the 2.0ghz comes with a Superdrive.

 

[0ptional]

I apologize if you noted this already but...

The 1.83ghz only comes with a Combo drive, whereas the 2.0ghz comes with a Superdrive.

ComboDrive being DVD-ROM/CD-RW and a SuperDrive being DVD-R/RW/CD-R/RW.

I honestly forgot about this difference.

 

[TheLordsServant]

I have never had a problem, I have a 13 dollar logitech mouse I bought from CompUSA and it works just fine, so I would definitely say that your G5 ought to work just fine

 

[0ptional]

I have never had a problem, I have a 13 dollar logitech mouse I bought from CompUSA and it works just fine, so I would definitely say that your G5 ought to work just fine

I mean with the extra buttons there are problems sometimes. Logitechs MX518 I know doesn't work 100% with OS X, but it does gives the same basic right-click/left-click/scroll wheel functionality

 

[Flak_Monkey]

I mean with the extra buttons there are problems sometimes. Logitechs MX518 I know doesn't work 100% with OS X, but it does gives the same basic right-click/left-click/scroll wheel functionality

Thanks, that's all I needed to know on that front.


Also, yes I've noted the differences between the combo drive vs. the super drive. I was actually going to post and ask about that but the answer was right there on apples site and was kind of a no brainer to figure out

I was all set on getting the Macbook 1.83GHz model until I saw that it didn't come with the super drive

So now that I know if I got that version I wouldn't be able to burn DVD's which I need to be able to do. So I have to buy the 2.0GHz model with the super drive. Which honestly isn't all that more expensive.


Now actually I've just seen the apple warranty costs $350 bucks to extend beyond the basic 90 day warranty. That's quite a difference but I guess if I am expecting to have the laptop for a couple years that I should probably buy it even though it's pretty expensive. It turned my $1600 MB into a $1950 MB. I'm just going to squeak in under the $2000 mark for one of these things and I don't even get a dedicated graphics solution! LoL

I just love the look of them though and I already have a gaming computer (the box in my sig) so I'm not to disheartened about that.

Would you all recommend the apple extended warranty for $350?

EDIT--- Actually my numbers were off. It's only $250 for the macbook warrenty.

Also, I'm thinking of buying the macbook with the stock 80GB HDD and just buying an external drive off of newegg to keep my other stuff on. That would make the total price of the macbook including the extended warranty just over $1700. However it's only just under $1500 without that warranty.

Just how reliable is apple? LoL I might skip that warranty. Do you think it's worth it?

 

[synergyo1]

Thanks, that's all I needed to know on that front.


Also, yes I've noted the differences between the combo drive vs. the super drive. I was actually going to post and ask about that but the answer was right there on apples site and was kind of a no brainer to figure out

I was all set on getting the Macbook 1.83GHz model until I saw that it didn't come with the super drive

So now that I know if I got that version I wouldn't be able to burn DVD's which I need to be able to do. So I have to buy the 2.0GHz model with the super drive. Which honestly isn't all that more expensive.


Now actually I've just seen the apple warranty costs $350 bucks to extend beyond the basic 90 day warranty. That's quite a difference but I guess if I am expecting to have the laptop for a couple years that I should probably buy it even though it's pretty expensive. It turned my $1600 MB into a $1950 MB. I'm just going to squeak in under the $2000 mark for one of these things and I don't even get a dedicated graphics solution! LoL

I just love the look of them though and I already have a gaming computer (the box in my sig) so I'm not to disheartened about that.

Would you all recommend the apple extended warranty for $350?

It is 90 day complimentary support, but it comes with 1 year hardware warranty. You can hold off puchasing the Apple care until right before the 1 year warranty runs out. On eBay you'll be able to find Applecare kits at a lower price. If you do end up holding off of the Applecare make sure you apply it before the 1 year runs out.

 

[Flak_Monkey]

It is 90 day complimentary support, but it comes with 1 year hardware warranty. You can hold off puchasing the Apple care until right before the 1 year warranty runs out. On eBay you'll be able to find Applecare kits at a lower price. If you do end up holding off of the Applecare make sure you apply it before the 1 year runs out.

Thanks for that, sounds like a plan

 

[CEpeep]

i got one more question about the macbook...i've decide to get the black macbook with 1Gb Ram and 180Gb HDD, i read somewhere that office for mac runs slow with 1Gb of Ram...can anyone confirm/deny this...cheers

also that picture ain't that bad...

MS Office is fine with 1GB of RAM. You can tell it's not running as well as it "should" though, because it stutters occasionally. It's plenty fast enough to get work done, though. Office 2007 for Mac is supposed to be released 6-12 months after its Windows equivalent, IIRC.

 

[0ptional]

yeah 80gb is turning out to be more than enough for me with my Black MacBook.

I bought AppleCare over thanksgiving break after getting some great phone/in-store help with Apple and decided it was worth it.

I have an 160gb external drive that runs on USB 2.0

Is there any way you can get a student price on it?

Umm, something else... oh umm... do you have to pay tax online? I know if I were to order online I would have had to pay tax and it just made more sense to me to go into a store and buy it instead of doing it online. Also know that the ones in stores can't have their HDD's upgraded, just the memory.

Just a little bit of info.

 

[BrokenBoySoldier]

is iWork or office 2004 better?

 

[0ptional]

is iWork or office 2004 better?

iWork consists of 2 Apps. Keynote and Pages, it isn't a full suite like Office 2004, BUT there are also free alternatives to MS Office like OpenOffice/NeoOffice (both use same system but different techniques). Personally I have umm, iWork '06, Office 2004 for Teachers and Students, and NeoOffice...

I got it all cheap so I splurged.

 

[MrGuvernment]

A couple notes on HDDs....

1) I think it is pretty easy to swap out hard drives on the MacBook... so you could probably upgrade the drive in the future without too much trouble (ie: you don't have to disassemble half the machine like in the past...)

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1750

2) also just an FYI that larger sizes give you more disk speed... maybe even more than the 7200 RPM drive... which I don't like because they are noisy and suck more batteries.

http://www.barefeats.com/mbcd7.html

-Steve

my 7200 60g is as loud as my 60g 5400rpm was, they arent much louder, also they dont suck out that much more battery life either.

and unless your drive is %80 full, the 7200 are faster in every other aspect.

 

[SteveW928]

is iWork or office 2004 better?

It really depends on what 'better' is to you. I have not really used Pages that much, but I would guess it is easier to use, and probably a bit more 'page layout' like than Word. I use Nisus Writer Express (about $60), and I think it is WAY better than M$ Word, though doesn't have all the 'advanced' features of Word... but to me, that is a plus. Word, IMO, is a mess. NWE just does word processing, and does it really well. I do all my papers in it... love it.

But... unfortunately, most of the rest of the world uses Word... and many times, people will use the Word only features. One of my professors would always imbed the notes on my paper with Word's 'sticky note' feature. Then, I couldn't read those without real Word. Even the Word open-source clones often can't read that stuff.

I think you said you were going to be a student, right? You'll probably want Word, just for the compatibility... and you can sometimes hunt down some great deals on the Student version of Office. I think I paid like $150... but have seen it for as low as $99. And, you actually get 3 license keys to use within your household. That was a great deal, since my wife and I are both students.

Now, Keynote totally blows Powerpoint out of the water. If you have to give presentations, it would be well worth picking up. I gave a presentation with it, and had people coming up to me afterwards, wondering how I did it.

But, in Office, you also get Excel. That is really the one app M$ has that I consider to be unique and pretty good. There are rumors that the new version of iWork at MacWorld in January will have a spreadsheet app.... we'll see.

-Steve

 

[SteveW928]

my 7200 60g is as loud as my 60g 5400rpm was, they arent much louder, also they dont suck out that much more battery life either.

and unless your drive is %80 full, the 7200 are faster in every other aspect.

Ahh... maybe they have improved them then... or different brand. I had a 7200 in my PowerBook from work before I got the MBP, and hated it. It was quite noisy... louder than the fan almost ever was, and made it take a lot longer to sleep.

Anyway... if you like it.. that's cool. I still think I'd go with the biggest 5400 drive.

It is kind of fun, as they seem to keep me in newer models well at work. I think I've had just about every model of Powerbook made since the Pismo... lol.

They asked me the other day if I needed a new C2D one to trade with my 1.83 GHz Core Duo... and I finally felt guilty and said... nah... this one is fine. What was I thinking?

-Steve