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Mac vs PC - Questions
- Thread starter mokkapoop
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2004
- Messages
- 23,983
thats funny, have you use OSX tiger or leopard, do you even KNOW why vista "appears" to use more ram....
Tiger is useless for more then browing with 512 of ram,and leopard needs 1G min to run smooth, trust me, i know, why i had to buy 2G for my macbook, Apple OS's are now becoming just as ram hungry, BUT at least vista has better ram management.
when i run SMP folding at home on my macbook, after i would say about 2-3 hours i have to reboot my macbook because opening firefox or even safari is slow, like watching some 2FPS movie...
starting any programs, say activity monitors takes about 4-5 seconds and sits in the "task" bar what ever it is and i have to click i t to actually get it to open, opwning task manager in vista is instant....
the only reason to buy a MAC is for the OS - simple as that, the hardware now being the same as what PC have had from the start, take out the better hardware from motorola or IBM part so now it is only about the OS.
These sorts of debates should not be allowed here. Every time one pops up, some asshat *WildMonkey* starts running his mouth thinking he knows what he's talking about...
If I was a moderator, I would lock this thread and start handing out temporary bans.
If I was a moderator, I would lock this thread and start handing out temporary bans.
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2004
- Messages
- 23,983
Just tossing that out there
lol, well i dont like that alienware case, but the vista desktop sure as hell is alot better looking. (maybe get a nice lian-li case)
klowngoblin
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2001
- Messages
- 1,087
actaully it does seem like the ipods did save apple, its their most popular product.
and WTF said crysis runs better on mac? thats a load of shit, what mac can beat a system with dual 8800GTS 512MB G92 cards in SLI with 4GB of PC2 8500 Ram.
someone may have misread "Farcry" for "Crysis" and "runs ok on mac" for "runs best on mac"
just like the BS PC World put out "fastest vista laptop is a mac" that is such a load of crap since Sager has a laptop with dual 8800GTX mobile cards in SLI with 4GB of DDR2 800MHz ram, TRIPPLE HDD's in RAID 0. what garbage macbook is going to beat that?
8600GT Vs 8800GTX
4GB of 667MHz ram Vs 4GB of 800MHz ram
1 slow HDD Vs 3x 7200RPM in Raid 0
lol
This thread is quite informative if you just skip everything except for the "[H]ardness Supreme" material!
lol
This thread is quite informative if you just skip everything except for the "[H]ardness Supreme" material!
Yes it is. We should not LOCK the thread, but better yet, delete the post's you are talking about. This has to be one of the more informative threads out there on this subject.
Riddlinkidstoner
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2006
- Messages
- 4,630
Really? I need OS X has a sexy desktop. I just can't stand OS X in general though.
I LOVE Apple's take on laptop and desktop design but I hate its software.
InorganicMatter
[H]F Junkie
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- Oct 19, 2004
- Messages
- 15,461
First off, you're not being clear, are we talking about laptops or desktops? Because from the looks of things, you're trying to compare the Macbook Pro's specs to your desktop. That being said, the Macbook Pro offers much performance for the money compared to Dell's XPS and Alienware's Area51 systems, as the above person tried to compare. Second, the new Mac Pro workstation offers excellent performance options (8 cores, 8800GT, and a buttload of RAM), and would compete with a PC desktop very competitively.
That being said, we don't buy Macs for the specs. We buy Macs for the operating system, the little perks, and the tight seamless integration with other Apple products.
To be fair, you really should compare Leopard with Vista for looks, as Leopard kicks Tiger's ass in the looks department.
LesterOfPuppets2
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2007
- Messages
- 137
I'd consider Mac if I was in one of their niche markets:
1. MacPro holds up well against HPxw8400 or Dell Precision 690 when you match components.
2. iMac holds up well against the Vaio VGC line.
3. MacMini looks good up against the Enano and other really small desktop offerings.
4. I'm not a laptop user, so can't really comment on how they are in that realm. Plenty of people seem to like the Mac Lappys, though.
InorganicMatter
[H]F Junkie
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- Oct 19, 2004
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Don't start the pointless spam. This thread has been the most civilized and logic discussion this forum has had all year.
klowngoblin
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2001
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- 1,087
both, Desktop Vs Desktop, Laptop Vs Laptop
crysis runs faster on Desktop PC's PERIOD
Vista runs faster on laptop PC's Period!
umm well how about Leopard Vs vista Vs Ubuntu + Compiz Fusion?
PenaltyShot
Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2002
- Messages
- 964
I've found myself a bit conflicted lately. I've been at least familiar with both PC and Apple products since day 1 of each product line. (My first computer was an original Apple II, serial # in the 1200's, with a cassette tape player for storage.) I've kept up on both technologies, but I've been a PC system builder and Windows user for two decades now and haven't had a real desire to own a Mac.
However, the new refresh of the Mac Pro has been seriously tempting me. I have gone through the longest period I've ever been through without a hardware upgrade, and am still on a P4 2.53Ghz Northwood system. I'm due for a major upgrade.
The things that have been tempting me about the Mac Pro are:
1. I just want to experience Leopard. It looks very, very slick. And Vista is a bit underwhelming.
2. I can run Vista x64 and/or XP on the Mac Pro too. I like the idea of having one box that can boot and run everything I want -- Windows, Linux, OS X.
3. This Mac-only software: Logic, Final Cut, and Aperture. Especially in the music and digital photo areas, the software seems to shine. And there are some other OSX-only apps I can't think of offhand but have seen that look good.
4. It has an 8800GT now. OK, so Apple finally has an 8800GT just as nVidia is ready to introduce the NEXT iteration of video cards -- and that is something that has always galled me about the Mac's vid card choices; they are so anemic and always, always behind the curve -- but still, it's an 8800GT which would probably serve my gaming needs for quite a while. I still enjoy the occasional FPS but find myself doing less gaming these days anyway; it just doesn't interest me quite as much as it did say 10 years ago.
5. Best expandibility of the Macs. Not on the level of PCs, granted, but at least the hard drives and vid cards can be swapped out. On the vid card front, I'm thinking maybe since nVidia's latest cards will just be die-shrinks of the 8800 series, then hopefully Mac versions will make it to market in good time. Although I'm not holding my breath on that one.
6. Building your own system is a fun hobby and offers you a ton of choices -- but it can also be a very time-consuming and frustrating hobby at times too. The allure of the Mac is, you plug it in and go. And everything pretty much just works.
However, there are some significant cons:
1. Price. Mac Pros are NOT cheap.
2. While Mac Pros are the only openly expandable Macs, they're still closed compared to PCs. Can't just open it up and drop in a new mobo or CPU, of course.
3. FB-DIMMs. Yeah, workstation-grade RAM for supposed stability over standard DDR2 or DDR3 RAM, but I want performance.
4. Limited video card choices.
5. When you buy a Mac, you're buying a snapshot in time. This is true much more so than when you build a PC. True, with either system you are buying hardware that can become obsolete or be superseded by something better in a few months' time. But with a custom-built PC, you just sell off old parts and swap in new -- even if that means a new motherboard and CPU. With a Mac Pro? Well, you're pretty much stuck with what you bought. Even when something significantly new does come out, it usually means a new purchase of an entire computer.
So, I dunno. The more I think about it, maybe the best choice for me would be to custom-build a new Vista x64 rig based on Penryn, maybe Skulltrail architecture. Or even wait for Nehalem later in 2008. And ALSO just buy a Mac Mini to feed my Leopard curiosity. Hmm...
Long post, but I'm just thinking out loud here....
However, the new refresh of the Mac Pro has been seriously tempting me. I have gone through the longest period I've ever been through without a hardware upgrade, and am still on a P4 2.53Ghz Northwood system. I'm due for a major upgrade.
The things that have been tempting me about the Mac Pro are:
1. I just want to experience Leopard. It looks very, very slick. And Vista is a bit underwhelming.
2. I can run Vista x64 and/or XP on the Mac Pro too. I like the idea of having one box that can boot and run everything I want -- Windows, Linux, OS X.
3. This Mac-only software: Logic, Final Cut, and Aperture. Especially in the music and digital photo areas, the software seems to shine. And there are some other OSX-only apps I can't think of offhand but have seen that look good.
4. It has an 8800GT now. OK, so Apple finally has an 8800GT just as nVidia is ready to introduce the NEXT iteration of video cards -- and that is something that has always galled me about the Mac's vid card choices; they are so anemic and always, always behind the curve -- but still, it's an 8800GT which would probably serve my gaming needs for quite a while. I still enjoy the occasional FPS but find myself doing less gaming these days anyway; it just doesn't interest me quite as much as it did say 10 years ago.
5. Best expandibility of the Macs. Not on the level of PCs, granted, but at least the hard drives and vid cards can be swapped out. On the vid card front, I'm thinking maybe since nVidia's latest cards will just be die-shrinks of the 8800 series, then hopefully Mac versions will make it to market in good time. Although I'm not holding my breath on that one.
6. Building your own system is a fun hobby and offers you a ton of choices -- but it can also be a very time-consuming and frustrating hobby at times too. The allure of the Mac is, you plug it in and go. And everything pretty much just works.
However, there are some significant cons:
1. Price. Mac Pros are NOT cheap.
2. While Mac Pros are the only openly expandable Macs, they're still closed compared to PCs. Can't just open it up and drop in a new mobo or CPU, of course.
3. FB-DIMMs. Yeah, workstation-grade RAM for supposed stability over standard DDR2 or DDR3 RAM, but I want performance.
4. Limited video card choices.
5. When you buy a Mac, you're buying a snapshot in time. This is true much more so than when you build a PC. True, with either system you are buying hardware that can become obsolete or be superseded by something better in a few months' time. But with a custom-built PC, you just sell off old parts and swap in new -- even if that means a new motherboard and CPU. With a Mac Pro? Well, you're pretty much stuck with what you bought. Even when something significantly new does come out, it usually means a new purchase of an entire computer.
So, I dunno. The more I think about it, maybe the best choice for me would be to custom-build a new Vista x64 rig based on Penryn, maybe Skulltrail architecture. Or even wait for Nehalem later in 2008. And ALSO just buy a Mac Mini to feed my Leopard curiosity. Hmm...
Long post, but I'm just thinking out loud here....
I've used MACs here n there, but it's going to take a lot for me to leave my rock solid XP laptop, and I don't even have to mention the PC.
Vista was still a little buggy on my new laptop, so I switched back to XP for now, however, I may go back to Vista once the new service pack comes out.
Anything that has ever gone wrong with XP has ALWAYS been because of my stupidity in running shady programs, and even then, all it took was a quick scan, and the problem was removed with XP going back to its VERY reliable state. Come to think of it, XP has not crashed ONCE on my new laptop, and I've been running it for several months now. Not even a slight sign of instability.
So I don't even consider arguments about the mac being more stable than xp, simply because I don't know how much better than 100% reliability one can have.
All it takes is to have all the updates done, and a simple av/firewall.
Vista was still a little buggy on my new laptop, so I switched back to XP for now, however, I may go back to Vista once the new service pack comes out.
Anything that has ever gone wrong with XP has ALWAYS been because of my stupidity in running shady programs, and even then, all it took was a quick scan, and the problem was removed with XP going back to its VERY reliable state. Come to think of it, XP has not crashed ONCE on my new laptop, and I've been running it for several months now. Not even a slight sign of instability.
So I don't even consider arguments about the mac being more stable than xp, simply because I don't know how much better than 100% reliability one can have.
All it takes is to have all the updates done, and a simple av/firewall.
InorganicMatter
[H]F Junkie
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- Oct 19, 2004
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- 15,461
Yeah sure, Windows doesn't run well on an SNES either, does it? Trying to compare the gaming performance of these machines is like trying to compare the off road performance of a Hummer versus a Ferrari F50; the Hummer performs better in it's niche category, but which would you rather have overall?
Vista runs the same on all x86 hardware. Take a Macbook and Dell XPS with identical specs and benchmark Vista on them; the results will be identical.
Leopard still wins, Vista is a close second, and Compiz Fusion will remain in the "useless toy" category, as it always has been and always will be.
then what saved apple!? apple's market share of the pc industry isn't much greater than it was eight years ago, yet their financials reflect an opposing trend. it is because of the ipod, not leopard, not the macbook, etc. the ipod brought forth a standard to the dap industry and we all know that the first to standardize a technology is usually the biggest winner, i.e. windows.
my take on the difference between a mac and a PC are pretty much if you want/need to do video, music and photo editing, get a mac. They were made for that.
If you want to do anything else, get a PC. A PC can do music, video and photos but not as good as a mac can.
If you want to do anything else, get a PC. A PC can do music, video and photos but not as good as a mac can.
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2004
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- 23,983
True, I also have leopard, and vista could be compared to Tiger since Vista was out at Tigers time, leopard just added the purdy bar where icons pile up on a slanted curve now (which i cant stand), nothing else has changed for the basic desktop design, which is nice, it is good to keep things familiar so people can adjust better, over all thinking about it, not much has changed at all in leopard from Tiger, the layouts, preferences, a few icon changes,, that is about all i noticed.
That does not make any sense. Its just a generalization. Most industry standard software is cross platform. Photoshop for example.
While many professionals in the industry use Macs it does not mean they are "better" at editing.
Photoshop does work well on both PCs and Macs. But, I wanna move over to the Mac camp so I can use Final Cut Pro... and that is only available on the Mac. Video houses have traditionally used Avid on Macs, but Apple's own Final Cut Studio is now a stellar video editing platform. Try getting a job in TV or video with Adobe Premiere or Sony Vegas skills... Final cut is where it's at.
my girlfriend and my flatmate both have macbooks, while I have a fairly pimped desktop and a lovely asus u1 ultraportable.
I'm a biased windows user, as most people in this forum are, yet I can't help but think that certain aspects of the mac machines are retarded:
Maximise doesn't maximise, the only way to maximise on a mac is to physically find the corner and drag it out from there
right mouse button: I'm sorry but saying things like 'but you can use ctrl or alt or whatever as an apple key!' or 'you can tap with both fingers' is daft, as I do a lot of 3d work, and even with the apple mighty mouse, you may have a right mouse button, but you can't click it unless you LIFT your left mouse finger up, so no way of doing left+right mouse, which is important for 3d design! - it's just annoying and pointless. My alt, windows key and ctrl already have functions.
multi-screen configs: you can't set an external screen as primary on a mac using settings, the multi monitor config is extremely limited in fact. There is a workaround though: connect the external screen, turn laptop on and shut it instantly so it doesn't recognise the laptop display and outputs only to external.... sorry but that's pathetic. Macbook pros are amazing gamer machines, but you have to go through some back-alley retarded method to output it to a projector or larger screen
there are many many more irritating things but it seems I have to actually get on with some work now...
I'm a biased windows user, as most people in this forum are, yet I can't help but think that certain aspects of the mac machines are retarded:
Maximise doesn't maximise, the only way to maximise on a mac is to physically find the corner and drag it out from there
right mouse button: I'm sorry but saying things like 'but you can use ctrl or alt or whatever as an apple key!' or 'you can tap with both fingers' is daft, as I do a lot of 3d work, and even with the apple mighty mouse, you may have a right mouse button, but you can't click it unless you LIFT your left mouse finger up, so no way of doing left+right mouse, which is important for 3d design! - it's just annoying and pointless. My alt, windows key and ctrl already have functions.
multi-screen configs: you can't set an external screen as primary on a mac using settings, the multi monitor config is extremely limited in fact. There is a workaround though: connect the external screen, turn laptop on and shut it instantly so it doesn't recognise the laptop display and outputs only to external.... sorry but that's pathetic. Macbook pros are amazing gamer machines, but you have to go through some back-alley retarded method to output it to a projector or larger screen
there are many many more irritating things but it seems I have to actually get on with some work now...
MrWizard6600
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2006
- Messages
- 5,791
the mac is an excellent platform for internet browsing, e-mail checking, dvd burning, music, and even programming (if your a serious programmer your going to want a linux distro tho). The PC will, yes, do biz apps better, such as excel (though the new mac iWork package is nice), but will also do any spicific (including above mentioned) task better. If you want to render in 3d, no mac can come close to the near petaflop performance of Nvidias quattro machines. You will never get a mac to do any kind of online serving. If you want to burn thousands of CDs a day, pick up a PC with 8 5" bays, 8 high-speed DVD-RW (DL if you so desire), and a mobo with 10 sata ports and get rolling (donno bout the software behind that though lol). The mac is a great home platform, but cannot be used by a real power user (I said it).
Overall the end user capabilities on a PC are much greater. If its your mom and dad who like to take picturesd and send e-mail I would suggest a mac. If its your 12 year old tech savvy son get him a PC. Who knows what he'll get into and when he does the hardware will be modular and ready to upgrade. Music being the only real exception I can find. If you have an aspiring artist, a mac is a good way to go, and all the pro recording software is mac based. That said theres plenty of good PC recording software.
And I'm sorry macies (don't like your name? Too bad.), the mac will not game. Yes it supports Wow. It even supports a couple other titles, infact it supports dozens of other titles, but the PC supports millions of games, including Plasma Pong and Joe's Fish Catcher (read: the made-in-garage by would-be game designer games).
and just because macs don't give "cryptic error messages" doesn't mean they don't have errors. oh no. Apple just hides em (no joke, post something bad about apple on the apple boards, your thread gets expunged (as in deleted and any record of the thread every existing removed) and you get banned). When windows errors, it croaks out a message, something one can Google. When macs error, they give you a beach ball. Googling that doesn't work so well.
Overall the end user capabilities on a PC are much greater. If its your mom and dad who like to take picturesd and send e-mail I would suggest a mac. If its your 12 year old tech savvy son get him a PC. Who knows what he'll get into and when he does the hardware will be modular and ready to upgrade. Music being the only real exception I can find. If you have an aspiring artist, a mac is a good way to go, and all the pro recording software is mac based. That said theres plenty of good PC recording software.
And I'm sorry macies (don't like your name? Too bad.), the mac will not game. Yes it supports Wow. It even supports a couple other titles, infact it supports dozens of other titles, but the PC supports millions of games, including Plasma Pong and Joe's Fish Catcher (read: the made-in-garage by would-be game designer games).
and just because macs don't give "cryptic error messages" doesn't mean they don't have errors. oh no. Apple just hides em (no joke, post something bad about apple on the apple boards, your thread gets expunged (as in deleted and any record of the thread every existing removed) and you get banned). When windows errors, it croaks out a message, something one can Google. When macs error, they give you a beach ball. Googling that doesn't work so well.
Yeah, I think that if the "traffic light" system, that started in OS10, didn't have Expose until 10.3. I mean, what the hell would you do in 10.2 (Jaguar) then? Just move the other windows out of the way? *laugh* I personally think having 15 lil windows open, no matter how big your digital desktop, is a waste of time. I like having a clean screen, which means maybe 1-2 apps organized orthogonally. The only real stickler is something like a dashboard, where it's tiny and transparent that it's not going to bother me.
The fact that you can't maximize your windows w/o tangible user effort is meh. And then remember that quitting is only hiding (not actually quitting). I suppose this is helpful...ok I don't know when this is helpful. Making users CMD+Quit everything, I think adds an unnecessary step. Besides OS10 doesn't have the standard uselss "Yes, No, Cancel" dialog, so what are the chances a user accidentally doesn't save (when quitting)?
Other than Expose, I do just fine with the [Start + D] command. It's no Expose, but for the moderate amount of multi-tasking I do, it's sufficient. And no, I'm not talking about "3D Alt Tab" - which is just stupid Vista garbage. If they wanted to do something useful, they should have pulled a regular Microsoft - and COPIED the damn thing. Call it something else, but at least they would have added one thing to improve usability on Windows.
Know what you are talking about before you rant about macs.
Mouse: you can use ANY usb mouse on a mac. I use a mx518 on mine . USB overdrive lets you set the buttons to do anything you want
Multi screen: Open the display manager, click the "menu bar" in the picture of the two monitors and drag it to the external monitor. This sets the external monitor as the primary display (dock and menu bar on external monitor). You can also arrange the screens however you want, vertical, horizontal etc. I am sure there are third party apps out there like ultramon, but there is no real need for them.
Do some research before you post.
