Lords of the Fallen....hardcore rpg for next-gen consoles and PC

Pleb said:
All old games and the combat in those is simply point and click. The combat in Skyrim requires more skill than any of those.
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That's not even close to correct. The IE games require tactics, which is a skill to be learned. Skyrim is a button masher.
 
I've played all of them except one and do like them but they don't feel more "hardcore" than Skyrim to me and it is not a button masher because underneath what you think is just button mashing is actually a lot of number crunching going on, the same kind of number crunching as BG.
 
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TwistedAegis said:
You gotta be kidding me, Skyrim combat and skill in the same sentence? I'm a big fan of TES, but combat has never been deep or difficult in any way.
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Nor is it in Balders Gate, like I said, simple point and click.
 
Pleb said:
I've played all of them except one and do like them but they don't feel more "hardcore" than Skyrim to me and it is not a button masher because underneath what you think is just button mashing is actually a lot of number crunching going on.
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The same amount of number crunching Super Smash Bros has.
 
Are you completely unaware of how tactics fall into play, even if you're just pointing and clicking? Have you played DA:O? Do you somehow feel that Skyrim is more "advanced" than that?

Honestly, in the 2 threads I've seen you in, did you join here for any reason other than to troll?
 
Wow, so many "This message is hidden because Pleb is on your ignore list." on this page.

Don't feed the (lame) trolls.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
I never said it was entry level, and yes I would agree it is far more complex than something like Skyrim. I was pointing out they took inspiration from the old Gold Box games, but made it more accessible and a little less complex. They increased the complexity when designing BG2, though. It was a much better interpretation of the ruleset. BG lacks any creative or difficult encounter design. BG2, again, improved upon this greatly.
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I had some of those old Gold Box games, and Baldur's Gate was more complex and better made. Difficulty doesn't really equate to hard core if the difficulty comes from poor controls or design.
 
ballistic90 said:
I had some of those old Gold Box games, and Baldur's Gate was more complex and better made. Difficulty doesn't really equate to hard core if the difficulty comes from poor controls or design.
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The controls were fine. The difficulty came from the enemy encounter design, which made tactical thinking much more of a priority. BG was more complex in many ways, but at no point does it require a strong understanding of the ruleset to beat.

Fallout is more complex in that the character creation and world interaction is open ended. You can build a sneaky character and avoid combat, you can build a diplomacy style character and talk your way out of trouble, you could play the game the way you wanted to. BG had those elements stripped out of it, and success could only be determined by combat prowess. Non combat skills played a very insignificant part.

That's just how I classify whether a game is hardcore or not. Deeply layered, complex and hard to master. BG1 doesn't really fit all of the prerequisites. I think I'll take back my previous assessment of BG2, though. It is a bit more hardcore than the first. Some of those mage battles were intense.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
The controls were fine. The difficulty came from the enemy encounter design, which made tactical thinking much more of a priority. BG was more complex in many ways, but at no point does it require a strong understanding of the ruleset to beat.

Fallout is more complex in that the character creation and world interaction is open ended. You can build a sneaky character and avoid combat, you can build a diplomacy style character and talk your way out of trouble, you could play the game the way you wanted to. BG had those elements stripped out of it, and success could only be determined by combat prowess. Non combat skills played a very insignificant part.

That's just how I classify whether a game is hardcore or not. Deeply layered, complex and hard to master. BG1 doesn't really fit all of the prerequisites. I think I'll take back my previous assessment of BG2, though. It is a bit more hardcore than the first. Some of those mage battles were intense.
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Fallout did allow for more methods of completing objectives, but Baldur's Gate had more variety and more options on the combat itself. Yes, Baldur's Gate was more combat oriented, but it did allow for complex character interactions too.

I mean, if having the option to complete objectives in mutliple ways make s agame hardcore, then Deus Ex Human Revolution (director's cut, at least) would qualify as a hardcore RPG, and while I really enjoyed that game, I'm just not convinced that game is "hardcore".
 
DE:HR wouldn't make the hardcore cutoff, but with some added story branching and/or mechanical depth, it would definitely be on the right track.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
DE:HR wouldn't make the hardcore cutoff, but with some added story branching and/or mechanical depth, it would definitely be on the right track.
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Yes, but in the director's cut, the entire game can (reportedly) be played without firing a single bullet, by stealth, hacking, and talking, usually with multiple solutions for each, including the boss battles.

I argue that by removing a lot of complexity that has to be done on the player's side, a game isn't really "hardcore" anymore. It's more inclusive, which isn't always a bad thing. It's when the wrong things are removed that it really destroys the quality of the game itself.

To me, the most hardcore games have always been the hugely in depth simulations, like x-plane, or Mechwarrior 1 or 2, or the original Steel Battalion. Trying to define hardcore in other genres gets harder and harder to do.
 
I want this director's cut. It sounds great.

Yea, in depth sims are definitely hardcore.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
I want this director's cut. It sounds great.

Yea, in depth sims are definitely hardcore.
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I've been waiting for it for months. It was supposed to be a Wii U exclusive, but it's apparently coming to PS3, Xbox 360, PC and Wii U. It doesn't even have a release date yet.
 
I started PC gaming with flight simulations so out "hardcore" all of you. Go try DCS Blachshark or A10 then we can talk hardcore.
 
That ridiculous post was enough for the ignore list. 10 days and already so confrontational? I'd rather spend my time reading posts that add value.
 
I never even heard of the Konung games. I thought I had all the Infinity Engine games. Off to GOG to see if they have it...
 
Pleb said:
I started PC gaming with flight simulations so out "hardcore" all of you. Go try DCS Blachshark or A10 then we can talk hardcore.
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Go try X-plane. The original software release was priced in the 100's of dollars, as the engine actually accurately models air resistance across each part of the plane. It's actually flight modelling software released as a game.
 
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Even if its turns out to only be a simple action hack/slash RPG, it sure looks purdy!
 
The technical aspects of the graphics seem good. But I wish they didn't have to follow Epic's art direction with everything has to be HUGE and SWOLE. And there are like 4 colors. It pretty much looks like a Gears of War mod.
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You guys... are all reading it wrong. It's "hardcore fantasy" rpg...
 
chameleoneel said:
The technical aspects of the graphics seem good. But I wish they didn't have to follow Epic's art direction with everything has to be HUGE and SWOLE. And there are like 4 colors. It pretty much looks like a Gears of War mod.
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Epic was just mimicking other western devs. Looks like any other graphically intensive western game IMHO.
 
Not a bad title to be compared to. Love the genre. Something satisfying about getting your ball sack curbstomped by a video game.
 
DeathPrincess said:
"Hardcore fantasy RPG" ... "skill trees that resemble Borderlands"... :D

It might be good though, hopefully you can be more than some generic fantasy guy. That was one of the worst things about the Witcher, the main character was dull, had a stupid face and no personality.
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I'll take a good story, character development, and multiple new locations over say...Dragon Age 2, that game was full of disappointment (So glad I bought The Witcher, also noticed while Bioware was helping them out with a game engine, they "borrowed" some background story of the Witcher world).

I don't mind having a character I have little or no choice in their appearance, as long as the story, and the gameplay work, this game looks like it might be okay, have to wait and see how it plays in a rolling/playable demo.

ballistic90 said:
Go try X-plane. The original software release was priced in the 100's of dollars, as the engine actually accurately models air resistance across each part of the plane. It's actually flight modelling software released as a game.
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That's kind of amussing, since A-10c, is the current training sim for the Air Force, and National guard.
 
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chameleoneel said:
newer gameplay walkthrough of basically the same section

Gameplay looks to be Dark Souls influenced. Visually it looks like a medieveal Gears of War. Overall seems like a more accessible approach (enemies didn't seem to attack much). But could turn out solid enough.

http://www.viddler.com/v/2ee2aecd?secret=52576812
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Yeah, I am genuinely looking forward to see how this will turn out closer to release...
 
chameleoneel said:
newer gameplay walkthrough of basically the same section

Gameplay looks to be Dark Souls influenced. Visually it looks like a medieveal Gears of War. Overall seems like a more accessible approach (enemies didn't seem to attack much). But could turn out solid enough.

http://www.viddler.com/v/2ee2aecd?secret=52576812
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Blatant copy paste of dark souls gameplay. I bet they even have the same mapping.
Just a copy of the gameplay isn't going make it good, they need something more then just refinement as well(I see that you roll farther than in DS...). Not digging the character art style either, way too clean. They should take more time and come up with better, original ideas. This looks bland right now to me. Definitely not ready.
 
While I certainly don't want the industry flooded with exact Dark Souls clones; I can deal with another game doing basically the same thing. Because I like that thing, a lot.
But, the staying power/replayability for Dark Souls is not only the nuance of the combat, but also the depth and richness of the lore/mythos, gameworld, art direction, and supporting gameplay systems.

See: generic graphics + Dark Souls like combat aren't enough yet for me to get excited. The general story sounds neat enough. But it remains to be seen how deeply integrated it will be into the game world.
Another bald + facial hair tough guy is not encouraging either. But ah well I don't want to be too negative just yet.

I did really like how the boss took off bits of armor to increase his mobility. That shows some understanding in the value of grounding the game world not only into the lore, but also into the mechanics.
 
Invokes the spirit? More like exact copy.. I'll give em credit that the graphics are superb. Would buy.

Just watched this developer gameplay commentary video from a few months ago, heh, this seems more like what Dark Souls 2 shoudlve been graphically. But everywhere you can see something they ripped from Dark Souls, all the way down to levers, and archers in strategic spots, and architecture of buildings and stairs and walkways, all the way down to the same clay pots. Thin line exists between paying homage and using another game as your entire design template.

I do like the "phased" boss fight that was shown though, where as you take down his health he changes how he fights. I'll def be buying this game.

http://www.ign.com/videos/2014/02/10/seven-minutes-of-developer-gameplay-lords-of-the-fallen
 
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DPI said:
Invokes the spirit? More like exact copy.. I'll give em credit that the graphics are superb. Would buy.

Just watched this developer gameplay commentary video from a few months ago, heh, this seems more like what Dark Souls 2 shoudlve been graphically. But everywhere you can see something they ripped from Dark Souls, all the way down to levers, and archers in strategic spots, and architecture of buildings and stairs and walkways, all the way down to the same clay pots. Thin line exists between paying homage and using another game as your entire design template.

I do like the "phased" boss fight that was shown though, where as you take down his health he changes how he fights. I'll def be buying this game
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is copying Dark Souls a bad thing?...I don't mind if they do that...if they even get 70% of the Dark Souls experience I'll be all over this game
 
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