Looking for new advanced point 'n shoot...

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gregnash

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Jun 8, 2005
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Ok guys you were great with the recommendations for my fathers new DSLR Canon Rebel EOS XT.

So during Christmas we were taking pictures with our Canon A560 and it is starting to die I believe (well what should I expect after spilling a beer on a few months ago and it getting dropped in the snow this weekend). Anyways, we want to get something a bit nicer so here is what we are looking for in the way of guidelines...

1. Needs to be SD flash card. Tired of buying new cameras and it needing something else.
2. Advanced point and shoot, the A560 was nice but we would like some more things to play with on it as she has taken photography classes before and I am having fun with my new Nikon EM 35mm.
3. Fast... there have been to many times where she has been at a concert or during a class (she's a hairstylist) and goes to take a picture only to have it take forever to load the pic and get to the point of shooting again. So something that can do a snap..snap..snap in quick succession would be great.
4. Low light quickness! Since most of her classes are in dark(er) classrooms with low light it will either need a proprietary flash or be able to snap quickly in low light (THIS IS A MUST)
5. Small(ish) size, this not big on the list, but since she would be taking it with her to shows and classes it needs to be something that can fit easily into a purse or jacket pocket.
6. Decent zoom capabilities before digital zoom. In her classes she is usually sitting a good 30' to 60' from the instructor/stage so she will need it to be able to zoom in optically before the digital zoom kicks in.
7. Price: something under $400 would be nice but we are willing to spend the money if it will do EVERYTHING we need (once again speed and low light abilities are a must).

So what I have looked at so far is the Canon S5 IS, Canon SX100 IS, and Panasonic Lumix series. All are within the price range but unfortunately I do not know what to look for.

Thanks for your help in advance!
 
I went through all the camera's that you listed and the winner was the Canon SD870IS. It was really had between the Canon G9, SD870IS or the Panasonic FX55. Great in low light, sharp, great colors, etc. I can post some examples if you want.
 
that would be awesome if you would!!! Thanks much! I am actually out right now to do some errands and look at cameras

Sent from my iPhone
 
When I was doing some comparison shopping and research for point and shoots a few months ago, the SD870IS was #1 on my list... at first I wasn't sure how useful a wide angle lens would be, but then I realized that I like to take a lot of shots that would look even better with the wide angle. Unfortunately I can't give you any pics or comparisons as I ended up going the dSLR route (which will be here on Monday!!!), but I think the wide angle lens and the IS really makes the SD870 a great choice.

EDIT: however, being a wide angle lens means the 3.8x optical tele range of the zoom on the 870 is not going be as far reaching as the 3x optical tele range of zoom of the point&shoots with standard 3x zooms; 28-105mm zoom for the SD870 vs. 37-111mm zoom for standard lens digicams, like the SD900. I don't how much of a difference that is going to make, but it's something to note for #6 on your list.
 
Personally, I was looking at the SX100IS. Coming from an old Oly C-740uz I didn’t want to lose the 10x zoom nor did I want to lose the Manual mode.
It was one of only a few that had the 10x for the reach and still gave the control of the aperture, shutter speed, iso, etc. That’s 2 down on your list: reach and advanced control but like Badger, I ended up buying a dslr. So I cant tell you any hands on stuff.

Though Im still considering it for the times when a dslr isn’t practical. Wallet just hurts too much now cause of the holidays.
 
RES_78 said:
Personally, I was looking at the SX100IS. Coming from an old Oly C-740uz I didn’t want to lose the 10x zoom nor did I want to lose the Manual mode.
It was one of only a few that had the 10x for the reach and still gave the control of the aperture, shutter speed, iso, etc. That’s 2 down on your list: reach and advanced control but like Badger, I ended up buying a dslr. So I cant tell you any hands on stuff.

Though Im still considering it for the times when a dslr isn’t practical. Wallet just hurts too much now cause of the holidays.
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Yeah I am with you on that about the wallet hurting!! So with that said it seems like the camera will be put off for a few months which is actually better because now that my fiancé is going independent it can be a tax write-off. Guess that gives me a few months for some research. I need to go out and look some more as the bit I got to play with the SD870 yesterday it did not catch my fancy but that could have been from the two BB associates that were hovering too.
 
Ok well started talking to my fiance about it the other night and we decided that we would rather save our money and get a DSLR and a smaller, somewhat cheap ultra-compact P&S.

So here is my next question....
We are SLR newbs, so we need something that is good, easy to use and fun but will last a while with the ability for upgraded glass when we want to do more with it. My dad's Canon Rebel EOS XT was nice but I did not get to play with it much.
Basically, here is what we are looking at....
1. Canon Rebel EOS XT ~$579 with a kit lens 18-55mm (edited pricing)
2. Canon Rebel EOS XTi ~$749 with a kit lens 18-55mm (edited pricing)
3. Nikon D40 ~$499 with a kit lens 18-55mm
4. Nikon D40x ~$649 with a kit lens of 18-55mm (edited pricing)
5. Nikon D40x ~$749 with a kit lens of 18-55mm and 70-200mm (costco deal atm)

So what do you guys think of the Nikon D40/x vs. Canon Rebel EOS XT/i?
 
gregnash said:
Ok well started talking to my fiance about it the other night and we decided that we would rather save our money and get a DSLR and a smaller, somewhat cheap ultra-compact P&S.

So here is my next question....
We are SLR newbs, so we need something that is good, easy to use and fun but will last a while with the ability for upgraded glass when we want to do more with it. My dad's Canon Rebel EOS XT was nice but I did not get to play with it much.
Basically, here is what we are looking at....
1. Canon Rebel EOS XT ~$499 with a kit lens 18-55mm (which will be fine for now)
2. Canon Rebel EOS XTi ~$599 with a kit lens 18-55mm
3. Nikon D40 ~$499 with a kit lens 18-55mm
4. Nikon D40x ~$599 with a kit lens of 18-55mm
5. Nikon D40x ~$749 with a kit lens of 18-55mm and 70-200mm (costco deal atm)

So what do you guys think of the Nikon D40/x vs. Canon Rebel EOS XT/i?
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Well, don't get a XT, sorry its just too old to suggest now.. the XTi is a great starter camera you can keep for years and still have tons of glass upgrade options. As far as Nikon goes, well I don't like the D40 at all, too low MP, to slow its too small (toy like) too noisy. The D40x seems better but I still dont know. I am a canon guy
 
I(illa Bee said:
Well, don't get a XT, sorry its just too old to suggest now.. the XTi is a great starter camera you can keep for years and still have tons of glass upgrade options. As far as Nikon goes, well I don't like the D40 at all, too low MP, to slow its too small (toy like) too noisy. The D40x seems better but I still dont know. I am a canon guy
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Thanks for the vote KillaBee. So you say stay away from the XT? I thought that MP only really mattered if you were planning on printing large photos, say 8x10 or larger? If that is the case then the MP will not matter to me. I just want something that we will both be able to use easily (she will need a decent, small length lense for shows ) and basically pick up and shoot with decent quality. I know that with skill comes better photos hence the need for better glass upgrades once we start getting better with it and are looking for more to do with it. We live in the Reno/Tahoe area so we have lots of wildlife, landscape and cityscape to play with!:D

Any other suggestions?
 
The XT is still an awesome camera. It takes awesome photos (heck my 300D took awesome photos and that is the Rebel before the XT...).

There are some nice upgrades the XTI brings to the table though. But if you do not need them (a lot of people will not) the XT is still a great choice and much much better than a P&S camera. and there really are not that many upgrades on the XTI over the XT...

Here is a comparison of the XT and XTI:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/com...&cameras=canon_eos350d,canon_eos400d&show=all

As you will notice the changes are very small and most will not effect the pictures all that much. 8mp to 10mp is overrated IMO. But the 9 vs. 7 focus points and larger LCD are nice for some people. Older thread but still helpful on this discussion:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=247482

I would probably recommend the XT and spend more money on glass. The differences are very small between the two cameras and photos will be pretty much identical from the two. The future compatiblity with lenses is also the same for both cameras as they both use the EF/EF-S mount.
 
Grentz said:
The XT is still an awesome camera. It takes awesome photos (heck my 300D took awesome photos and that is the Rebel before the XT...).

There are some nice upgrades the XTI brings to the table though. But if you do not need them (a lot of people will not) the XT is still a great choice and much much better than a P&S camera. and there really are not that many upgrades on the XTI over the XT...

Here is a comparison of the XT and XTI:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/com...&cameras=canon_eos350d,canon_eos400d&show=all

As you will notice the changes are very small and most will not effect the pictures all that much. 8mp to 10mp is overrated IMO. But the 9 vs. 7 focus points and larger LCD are nice for some people. Older thread but still helpful on this discussion:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=247482

I would probably recommend the XT and spend more money on glass. The differences are very small between the two cameras and photos will be pretty much identical from the two. The future compatiblity with lenses is also the same for both cameras as they both use the EF/EF-S mount.
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Thanks for the review and comparison sites Grentz. I dont really see where I would need the 9 focus points in what we would do but the larger LCD screen would be nice. Also, it seems that the XTi can actually do a continuous stream for a bit longer than the XT but once again it does not look like I would really need that.

So that is one vote for the Canon EOS Rebel XT...

So far seems like Canon is winning the race. So next question aside from the 18-55mm glass that it comes with what would be another good investment, the 50mm or something with a bigger zoom like a 28-200mm? Most that we would probably be doing is zooming in for upper body shots from say 40-50yrds away max if that helps any?
 
The XT is still a very capable camera.

If you are wanting to zoom into the upper body of someone standing at that distance and have it fill the frame you will be needing a really good telephoto lens. The kit lens is a decent general purpose lens but it will suffer in low light conditions. The 50mm/f1.8 lens is awesome for the price but it not very flexible. I would recommend you get the camera with the kit lens and work with that to start. Once you start getting used to the camera you can come with with specific examples of what you would like to do.
 
Thanks Panzer, yeah you are probably right that I should worry about extra lenses later and first deal with the camera itself. Hell my fiance is now making close to $400 a day working so paying for this thing will not take long at all!!!:D
 
I got the XT and skipped on the kit lens and went for the Sigma 18-200 with OS http://www.amazon.com/Sigma-18-200m...1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1199483570&sr=8-1 I haven't been able to get outside and take any decent photos yet, but it's nice having both the wide angle and the telephoto, as well as the optical stabilization (and hey, she'll only have to work 2 days for one!). I hope to make my next lens the Canon 50mm f/1.8, as that would be great for indoor shooting.
 
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Badger said:
I got the XT and skipped on the kit lens and went for the Sigma 18-200 with OS http://www.amazon.com/Sigma-18-200m...1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1199483570&sr=8-1 I haven't been able to get outside and take any decent photos yet, but it's nice having both the wide angle and the telephoto, as well as the optical stabilization (and hey, she'll only have to work 2 days for one!). I hope to make my next lens the Canon 50mm f/1.8, as that would be great for indoor shooting.
Click to expand...

It is a superzoom, but the sigma 18-200 OS is one of the best superzooms there is. There is a bit of comprimise in quality, but it is still very capable and an awesome lens for most people!

It is a step up from the kit lens as well, so it is not horrible as some may make it out to be when compared to $1000+ lenses and shorter focal length lenses.
 
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I say the XT and spend the rest on a decent lens.....
 
Ok that looks like another one for the XT model. However, the 9 focal points is looking nice for the XTi. Not that I know of any high speed/movement pics we would be taking but who knows might be better to be safe than sorry. Hell with my local CompUSA closing they had both in stock so I might wait another week or two and see if we can get one there for dirt cheap!
 
If you're on a limited budget, you'll be better off spending the money on lenses instead of the body. You can get an XT body for under $400 now, or $470ish with the kit lens. I'd get the body only and pick up either a Tamron 17-50 f/2.8, or the new Canon 18-55 IS.
 
darktiger said:
I say the XT and spend the rest on a decent lens.....
Click to expand...

Best suggestion in the thread so far.

One of the more popular combos is the Rebel XT body and the Tamron 17-50 F2.8 lens

and OP, the prices you are listing are still way high..

I paid $459 for my Rebel XT and Kit lens (which I sold asap) from Amazon just last month

The Body alone can be had for $399
 
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AMD T-type said:
Best suggestion in the thread so far.

One of the more popular combos is the Rebel XT body and the Tamron 17-50 F2.8 lens

and OP, the prices you are listing are still way high..

I paid $459 for my Rebel XT and Kit lens (which I sold asap) from Amazon just last month

The Body alone can be had for $399
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Yeah I know that the prices are a little high but those were closer to median price. I can get the kit for $459 from BHPhoto (which I might do)....

Where is a good place (other than Amazon) to get lenses?
Also, if I got just the body for $399 but paid another $179 for the 17-50 Tamron (only seen it one place) would that kinda defeat the purpose or is the Tamron a much better lense than the coupled 18-55mm kit lense?
 
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gregnash said:
Yeah I know that the prices are a little high but those were closer to median price. I can get the kit for $459 from BHPhoto (which I might do)....

Where is a good place (other than Amazon) to get lenses?
Also, if I got just the body for $399 but paid another $179 for the 17-50 Tamron (only seen it one place) would that kinda defeat the purpose or is the Tamron a much better lense than the coupled 18-55mm kit lense?
Click to expand...

The Tamron runs about $400, and it's a much better lens.
 
fugu said:
The Tamron runs about $400, and it's a much better lens.
Click to expand...

HOLY....hey where did this brick come from?

Ok so from what I can tell the 18-55mm lens that comes with the kit is NOT and IS. What is another comparable lens that is less than $200
 
looking like this is a canon only thread:eek:


love my SD800 but started with a nikon D50 and just got the 18-200 VR lens for it, thought I'd start with a used low end and quite happy with quality of camera, lens and pics

you really should try to handle all the different models you're interested in in case that would eliminate any of them

you checked out this site ?
 
blackhawk said:
looking like this is a canon only thread:eek:


love my SD800 but started with a nikon D50 and just got the 18-200 VR lens for it, thought I'd start with a used low end and quite happy with quality of camera, lens and pics

you really should try to handle all the different models you're interested in in case that would eliminate any of them

you checked out this site ?
Click to expand...

AH! One for Nikon now!....

Thanks for the recommendation Blackhawk, I plan on going to my local Gordons when I get the chance so I can handle both models (Canons and Nikons). BB has them but they have the stupid security wraps to them so I cannot really get a feel for either so I will have to go to a REAL camera shop to check them out.

But for the most part, it seems to be that everyone is recommending going with a lower model (XT or D40) to save money and spend that on better lenses.

So here is another question (and a biased one at that:D) Will I find better aftermarket lenses for the Nikon or the Canon. I know that pretty much Canon makes the best glass out there but how does the Nikon Nikkor lenses stand up? From looking at BHPhoto it looks like the Nikon, comparable, lenses are anywhere from $10-$30 cheaper, but then again that could be my untrained eye.
 
gregnash said:
AH! One for Nikon now!....

Thanks for the recommendation Blackhawk, I plan on going to my local Gordons when I get the chance so I can handle both models (Canons and Nikons). BB has them but they have the stupid security wraps to them so I cannot really get a feel for either so I will have to go to a REAL camera shop to check them out.

But for the most part, it seems to be that everyone is recommending going with a lower model (XT or D40) to save money and spend that on better lenses.

So here is another question (and a biased one at that:D) Will I find better aftermarket lenses for the Nikon or the Canon. I know that pretty much Canon makes the best glass out there but how does the Nikon Nikkor lenses stand up? From looking at BHPhoto it looks like the Nikon, comparable, lenses are anywhere from $10-$30 cheaper, but then again that could be my untrained eye.
Click to expand...

For lower cost non-professional lenses, both Nikon and Canon have a pretty good lineup, with Nikon probably having some cheaper options (besides the canon 18-55 IS which is an awesome deal right now for a great lens).

In more expensive professional lenses, I give Canon the nod as I like some of their L lenses more than the Nikon counterparts and the resale value is seemingly unmatched with the Canon L glass (which also means sometimes the Canons are more expensive Used).
 
The stereotype is that Nikon makes better wides and Canon makes better telephotos. One thing to consider is that the D40 won't autofocus with some of the cheaper Nikon prime lenses like their 35 f/2.
 
fugu said:
The stereotype is that Nikon makes better wides and Canon makes better telephotos. One thing to consider is that the D40 won't autofocus with some of the cheaper Nikon prime lenses like their 35 f/2.
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Thanks for the info fugu that is very good information. So I am assuming that ALL the Canon lenses will AF vs some of the Nikon not?
 
gregnash said:
Thanks for the info fugu that is very good information. So I am assuming that ALL the Canon lenses will AF vs some of the Nikon not?
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All EF mount lenses will work. Canon used to make FD mount lenses, but they've all been superseded by modern EF lenses, so you won't see them in stores.

I'm pretty sure that with the D40 and D40x, you only get autofocus with AF-S lenses. If you get a Nikon D80, D50, or another body with the focus motor, you'll be able to use autofocus with non-AF-S lenses.
 
fugu said:
All EF mount lenses will work. Canon used to make FD mount lenses, but they've all been superseded by modern EF lenses, so you won't see them in stores.

I'm pretty sure that with the D40 and D40x, you only get autofocus with AF-S lenses. If you get a Nikon D80, D50, or another body with the focus motor, you'll be able to use autofocus with non-AF-S lenses.
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Ok I guess what I was asking is more of the Canon lenses that are readily available are the EF (auto focus) style thus the manuals are harder to find. On the Nikon, it is more of a mix of both on the market, Auto and Manual? I am just trying to save myself some hassle on hunting down auto lenses vs manual.

Also, looked at BH this morning and saw this for $45 used?! How good is this lense?

You have been a great help fugu
 
gregnash said:
Ok I guess what I was asking is more of the Canon lenses that are readily available are the EF (auto focus) style thus the manuals are harder to find. On the Nikon, it is more of a mix of both on the market, Auto and Manual? I am just trying to save myself some hassle on hunting down auto lenses vs manual.

Also, looked at BH this morning and saw this for $45 used?! How good is this lense?

You have been a great help fugu
Click to expand...

With the Nikons there are some AF lenses that aren't AF-S, so they're not manual forcus, but they just won't AF on the D40. There's still a good selection of stuff out there, but if you get more into the hobby later and want prime lenses, you might not be able to use all of them with AF.

The Tamron looks pretty lousy. In general, expect to spend at least couple hundred per lens if you want something that's sharp. The cheap exception is the 50mm f/1.8 which is 80 bucks, sharp and fast. If you want fast zooms like the Tamron 17-50, it gets even more expensive.
 
Ok got a stupid question for you guys, what is the difference between the EF and EF-S lenses?

Also, the fiance said she would pick it up soon (tax deduction!) but there is a new package that will be offered at BH that gives the XT body with a 28-90mm lense for about $469, is that better than the 18-55mm at $459? I got to play with my dad's this weekend at our families yearly ciopino feed with a 30-85mm lense from his old EOS, took some fun pics but will need to play with the camera more to learn about it. Like the 7 AF zones, how do I get it to focus on something more in the foreground than the background? And I am assuming that when the points flash that means they will be focusing there?!
 
gregnash said:
Ok got a stupid question for you guys, what is the difference between the EF and EF-S lenses?

Also, the fiance said she would pick it up soon (tax deduction!) but there is a new package that will be offered at BH that gives the XT body with a 28-90mm lense for about $469, is that better than the 18-55mm at $459? I got to play with my dad's this weekend at our families yearly ciopino feed with a 30-85mm lense from his old EOS, took some fun pics but will need to play with the camera more to learn about it. Like the 7 AF zones, how do I get it to focus on something more in the foreground than the background? And I am assuming that when the points flash that means they will be focusing there?!
Click to expand...

The EF-S lenses fit only the 20D/30D/40D and Digital Rebel series of cameras. The distance between the rear of the lens and the sensor is shorter than for EF lenses. It's possible to reduce the distance on those cameras because they have a sensor that is smaller than 35mm, along with a smaller mirror. If it were possible to attach an EF-S lens to a "full size" digital camera, I suspect the mirror would crash into the back of the lens when it comes up. Also I would probably get the Tamron 17-55 f/2.8 or Canon 17-85 IS in your price range. I think those are better than the 18-55.
 
darktiger said:
The EF-S lenses fit only the 20D/30D/40D and Digital Rebel series of cameras. The distance between the rear of the lens and the sensor is shorter than for EF lenses. It's possible to reduce the distance on those cameras because they have a sensor that is smaller than 35mm, along with a smaller mirror. If it were possible to attach an EF-S lens to a "full size" digital camera, I suspect the mirror would crash into the back of the lens when it comes up. Also I would probably get the Tamron 17-55 f/2.8 or Canon 17-85 IS in your price range. I think those are better than the 18-55.
Click to expand...

Ok so the EF lenses would be something like the old lenses that my dad had for his original Rebel. And the EF-S lenses are more for the higher end digitals, more prosumer than consumer?

Seems like nobody really likes the 18-55mm kit lense and is suggesting buying the Tamron 17-55 or Canon 17-85. Is this pretty much the concensus.
 
Actually EF lens are for more prosumer and EF-S is for the regular consumer. Most high end glass with canon "L" are EF lens.
 
Ah ok thanks darktiger (and by the way great photos!)
I guess either way it really doesnt matter as either the EF or EF-S will work with the Rebel. Looking at everything I think I am just going to stick with the kit instead of having to fork out extra money initially to get a different lense. I know that everyone seems to like the Tamron or Sigma 18-55mm equivalents better but with the body and one of those lenses I would end up paying about an extra $50-$75 so I might as well just keep it on the cheap for the time being. After our wedding, I can then start forking out money for nicer lenses.:D
 
Funny thing, my brother says the same thing. But he broke down and bought a Tamron 17-55. But he is lusting after some of my "L"'s. It can be a expensive hobby if you let it. I just have a good range and will just leave it at that. My range is a 10-22, 24-105, 70-200, and I think I cover about everything. In the beginning of my camera addiction I tried to go cheap (Sigma 18-200, tamron 17-35, etc), but eventually got a L. While I enjoyed my other lens, I should of did it right the first time and spent the money. So my recommendation is read around, play with your kit, and save for a lens that you want. I ended up getting my Canon 24-105IS L f/4, and my reason to my fiancee(now wife) is "This is for the honeymoon". It did very well in greece.
 
darktiger said:
Funny thing, my brother says the same thing. But he broke down and bought a Tamron 17-55. But he is lusting after some of my "L"'s. It can be a expensive hobby if you let it. I just have a good range and will just leave it at that. My range is a 10-22, 24-105, 70-200, and I think I cover about everything. In the beginning of my camera addiction I tried to go cheap (Sigma 18-200, tamron 17-35, etc), but eventually got a L. While I enjoyed my other lens, I should of did it right the first time and spent the money. So my recommendation is read around, play with your kit, and save for a lens that you want. I ended up getting my Canon 24-105IS L f/4, and my reason to my fiancee(now wife) is "This is for the honeymoon". It did very well in greece.
Click to expand...

Ah very good point as I will be doing the same soon, except we will be going to Cabo for our Honeymoon. We are actually going to the Body Worlds exhibit this weekend so I am taking our Nikon EM and our A560 so I should get some decent photos with that! Will be very interesting to see.

EDIT: Ok, so here comes the next question. Where do you guys buy your lenses? I see that BH had pretty good prices but where else do you buy them? Also, it seems like all the Canon branded lenses have USM on them but different versions (ie USM II or USM III). What does this mean? I know that the IS in the product name stands for the Image Stabilizer lense but not the USM?
Finally, the 'f' in the name stands for F-Stop correct? So the small the number after the 'f' the faster the lense(ie f/1.8 is faster and better than f/4.5) but in relation to the particular lense?

Is this kit any good? Just found it at Beach Camera....
 
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