Looking for mobo, PSU, CPU cooler recommendations?

[Ruahrc]

I'm speccing out a new build, quiet SFF gaming (and only gaming). Currently I plan on going for the Lian-Li Q08.

I'm aiming for an upper-midrange performance level, currently have the following components:

Lian Li Q08 Silver
i5 2400S (I would prefer the lower TDP, and don't really intend on overclocking- with the 65W part I can install a quieter CPU cooler)
MSI 6870 Twin Frozr II GPU (this may be swapped out for something cheaper)
8GB GSkill RAM (DDR3 1600)
Seasonic X650 Gold PSU (can I lower the wattage? Should I?)
Razer Mamba 2012 4G (need a new mouse)
Noctua 120mm fan (also gonna need some quiet 140mm fan)

I already have a HD (500 or 750GB 7200rpm 2.5" drive laying around), and have an external USB blu-ray reader for installing software, so I won't need to purchase those.

Trying to stay around $1000 (plus or minus). Right now the cart total is around 930 but I will likely need to add a mobo and a good quiet CPU cooler. I may step back to a cheaper GPU and just upgrade it later on- although I would like to get one that at least has good DX11 capability.

I am interested in some mobo recommendations, as well as how strong of a PSU I really should/need to buy. Low power, efficiency, and noise are considerations I am taking into account (hence the 2400S, etc).

One other important feature I would like to have is built-in wifi. I will be connecting this computer over 802.11n (5GHz band), and it would be nice to get it built-in to the mobo rather than having to use a USB dongle.

Maybe the ASUS P8H67-I? (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131709) Seems to have all the features I'm looking for (just would need to swap out the RAM for SO-DIMMS)

What do you think will fit the bill? As I don't really intend to overclock, is going to the Z68 chipset necessary or can I save a little money by getting an H67 board instead? I want to make sure to get a good reliable board, as my current gaming rig is dying because of a bad mobo. For this reason I'm hesitant to go with Zotac as I have heard mixed things about their boards (great featureset, sometimes a little iffy on comatibility/reliability).

As far as the PSU, I'd like to get an 80+ Gold PSU, I'm just wondering if 650W is overkill and if I might be able to save some money and get a 550W or less instead. Although it seems like only $10/20 difference at most and it seems once you get to 650W, the available options really go up.

Ruahrc

 

[Abula]

The PSU you can go lower, specially if you are not OCing, since you are worried about budget, probably check Seasonic 560W 80 Plus Gold ATX 12V/EPS 12V Power Supply - X-560 SS-560KM $126.99 free shipping.

For CPU cooler, the best you can fit on Q08 (beside some prebuild water coolers), is the Thermalright AXP 140, since you are noise sensitive, just undervolt the fan or if that not enough get a quieter fan. Check Mini ITX H67 Silent Gaming System to see how most of the components fit, probably also check his choice of mobo since everything work out fine. If your Gskill are ripjaws should also fit fine with the AXP, check this post.

Personally i would drop the Mamba for Logitech G700 if you are into wireless, else the G400 seems like a good wired mouse.

On the Noctua fan.... i have mid thoughs, their fans are quality fans, but i find Noiseblockers a little better in the same price range, for a quiet 140mm check Noiseblocker NB-BlackSilentPro PK-1 140mm x 25mm Ultra Quiet Fan - 700 RPM - 9 dBA, i would probably go with 2 and replace the AXP fan. In case you want to change the exhaust fan, since its horizontal fan, i would go with a real ball bearing fan, probably Scythe Gentle Typhoon D1225C12B2AP-12 800rpm.

If you go with something cheaper on the GPU, and you want quiet, maybe check GIGABYTE GV-R677SL-1GD Radeon HD 6770, without the bottom hdd cage it should fit, since the Q08 can house 300mm cards, and this card is around 274, what i have my doubts is if the frontal fan would give enough airflow to run the a passive card, either way just an idea, since you are considering a lower gpu and desire a quiet setup.

 

[Zap]

i5 2400S (I would prefer the lower TDP, and don't really intend on overclocking- with the 65W part I can install a quieter CPU cooler)
MSI 6870 Twin Frozr II GPU (this may be swapped out for something cheaper)
Seasonic X650 Gold PSU (can I lower the wattage? Should I?)
Noctua 120mm fan (also gonna need some quiet 140mm fan)

You don't need the 65W CPU. Those are usually the most useful if you are limited with the PSU, for instance if you are trying to build a quad core using a 100W PSU.

Most dual fan graphics cards are reasonably quiet.

Yes, you can go lower on the PSU. Your proposed rig (even with a full wattage CPU) can run on a quality 450W PSU. If you are willing to compromise on the "must have 80Plus Gold" bit, you can save quite a bundle. Really, you would be saving the equivalent of what a night light draws. 80Plus Bronze units are cheap and plentiful.

Have you considered using the stock fans and just undervolting them?

One other important feature I would like to have is built-in wifi. I will be connecting this computer over 802.11n (5GHz band), and it would be nice to get it built-in to the mobo rather than having to use a USB dongle.

Maybe the ASUS P8H67-I? (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131709) Seems to have all the features I'm looking for (just would need to swap out the RAM for SO-DIMMS)

Are you sure about the WiFi? 5GHz means you need a dual band adapter. Just being N doesn't guarantee dual band operation. I searched, and found one mention that the Asus board uses an Atheros AR9002 series WiFi. If that is true, then I think you are out of luck. Atheros lists three of them, two are 150Mbps and one is a 2 stream 300Mbps. None of them mention 5GHz operation. Looking at some of the other Atheros offerings shows that they specify 5GHz operation if the device supports it.

 

[wonSR4]

The PSU you can go lower, specially if you are not OCing, since you are worried about budget, probably check Seasonic 560W 80 Plus Gold ATX 12V/EPS 12V Power Supply - X-560 SS-560KM $126.99 free shipping.

For CPU cooler, the best you can fit on Q08 (beside some prebuild water coolers), is the Thermalright AXP 140, since you are noise sensitive, just undervolt the fan or if that not enough get a quieter fan. Check Mini ITX H67 Silent Gaming System to see how most of the components fit, probably also check his choice of mobo since everything work out fine. If your Gskill are ripjaws should also fit fine with the AXP, check this post.

On the Noctua fan.... i have mid thoughs, their fans are quality fans, but i find Noiseblockers a little better in the same price range, for a quiet 140mm check Noiseblocker NB-BlackSilentPro PK-1 140mm x 25mm Ultra Quiet Fan - 700 RPM - 9 dBA, i would probably go with 2 and replace the AXP fan. In case you want to change the exhaust fan, since its horizontal fan, i would go with a real ball bearing fan, probably Scythe Gentle Typhoon D1225C12B2AP-12 800rpm.

I don't know about the the noise within the Q08 with the AXP-140 (didn't have AXP-140 when I had the Q08) but I've had the AXP-140 in a Q11B with the NB PK-1 (which I still have and can sell for cheap to the OP if he wants it ) and it worked well. I still "heard" the fans from like a foot away but that may have been the Enermax 140mm fan that I had installed in the front.

 

[Fisher3491]

650w is way more power than you need. The SF45ST is a great choice for a mini-ITX system. It's smaller than an ATX so it frees up room in the case and its got plenty of power.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256063&Tpk=st45sf

You have many choices for motherboards. The ASUS is a good choice if you don't mind the So-DIMMS. THe ASRock H67M-ITX is usually the best bang for the buck. The Gigabye GA-H67N-USB3-B3 is a great board that offers dual HDMI. The Zotac is usually the most expensive, but it does have DisplayPort. There are other choices too. Use the handy tool here to compare them all.

ITX Motherboard Comparison Tool

 

[Ruahrc]

Would a Noctua NH-C14 (with top fan removed) work on an mITX mobo with a discrete GPU installed? Seems like they don't make the Thermalright AXP140 anymore and it looks to be harder to find, but I can get the NH-C14 (which is of a similar concept) from newegg. The hidden bonus is that I can take that 2nd 140mm fan and replace the stock fan in the front of the mITX case (which helps offset the high pricetag of this cooler)

Also what is the consensus on using a fanless PSU in small mITX cases? I saw the Seasonic SS-400FL. It's a lot lower wattage at 400W (but should still be plenty, especially with a 65W CPU?), 80+ Gold, modular (which the previously recommended 500W seasonic is not), small, AND cheaper ($90 after MIR!?). My only concern is it being fanless. Would there be sufficient airflow in a Q08 or Q25? What if I turned the CPU fan so that it blew upwards, presumably into the PSU and then out the case?

Also I'm a little behind the times when it comes to PSU connections. It looks like the ASUS mobo has a 24-pin main connector plus an additional 4-pin AUX connection near the CPU. But on sites like newegg, they only list 20+4 pin PSUs, or 24 pin PSUs. Do I need to buy a 24+4 pin PSU, and what kind is that?

Here are some minor revisions:
Case: Lian-Li PC-Q08 or PC-Q25
ASUS P8H67-I mobo (I like the built in wireless, wifi and bluetooth which I can replace with a $25 intel card if I need/want 5GHz capability)- I don't think Z68 would really give me any tangible benefits, especially considering I will use discrete GPU and don't really intend to overclock?
8GB DDR1333 RAM (SO-DIMMS)
Intel i5-2400S
MSI 6950 Twin Frozr II (for now- still waffling about getting a lesser GPU)
Seasonic SS-400FL PSU (fanless a good idea?)

Ruahrc

 

[Abula]

Would a Noctua NH-C14 (with top fan removed) work on an mITX mobo with a discrete GPU installed?

Really hard to say for sure, but my guess is wont fit, first the height, without the top fan its 105mm, while the axp140 is 70mm + 25mm (fan) = 95mm, so in essence its still lower profile the axp140. In the thread that i posted (see post above), the cooler seems very close to the psu, not sure if there is enough cloarance for the NC14. Now another thing is the orientation with the PCIe and if it would clear the ram or the other components with the fan on below, probably wont fit, again just guessing, but with the AXP140 you have a user that has it running with a standard atx psu on it, so its a safer bet, still would be a little careful chosing mobo cause so close to the PCIe slot.

Seems like they don't make the Thermalright AXP140 anymore and it looks to be harder to find, but I can get the NH-C14 (which is of a similar concept) from newegg.

I havent heard they are discontinuing the AXP140, now if you think its because you cant find it in newegg, thats because newegg doesnt carry thermalright, but a lot of places do like amazon, frozencpu, performancepcs, etc.... in the past it was newegg only for pcs, today.... there more options, i even prefer amazon return policies and free shippings in a lot of products, but this is more a personal choice.

The hidden bonus is that I can take that 2nd 140mm fan and replace the stock fan in the front of the mITX case (which helps offset the high pricetag of this cooler)

This would be great, but check if you the cooler will fit, personally i doubt it, but again just guesing. There are other low profile coolers if you see the axp140 to expensive, like scythe big shurikan or kouzuti, but probably wont perform as good as axp140.

Also what is the consensus on using a fanless PSU in small mITX cases? I saw the Seasonic SS-400FL. It's a lot lower wattage at 400W (but should still be plenty, especially with a 65W CPU?), 80+ Gold, modular (which the previously recommended 500W seasonic is not), small, AND cheaper ($90 after MIR!?).

400W should be enough.... but with a dedicated gpu.... really depends, personally i dont like fully passive PSUs, unless you really have good airflow, but since you want a quiet setup.... and the q08 will be crowded... i would prefer to have a slightly bigger 560w seasonic, specially cause its going to be semi passive, it will not start the fan unless its needed. Also you having a 6950 on your wishlist......

modular (which the previously recommended 500W seasonic is not

Both Seasonics X 560 and X 400 are fully modular PSU, not sure where you read the 560 wasnt, all seasonic X series are fully modular.

Also I'm a little behind the times when it comes to PSU connections. It looks like the ASUS mobo has a 24-pin main connector plus an additional 4-pin AUX connection near the CPU. But on sites like newegg, they only list 20+4 pin PSUs, or 24 pin PSUs. Do I need to buy a 24+4 pin PSU, and what kind is that?

Dont worry both seasonic X will have 20 + 4 connectors, old mobos use 20pin, new ones use 24pins, so you will be covered. and should also have 4 + 4 for the CPU power, among other standard connectors.

 

[Ruahrc]

Okay!

So I think I'm set now. After some consideration I decided to stick with the PC-Q08 case instead of the newer PC-Q25. I like the removable hard drive cages in the Q08, and the fact that there is a large intake grill on the front. USB ports on the front are also a bonus. I won't need the 5.25" bay but maybe in the future I will install a CrystalFontz LCD there.

Regarding the Thermalright cooler, I just usually assumed that if you couldn't buy it on newegg it didn't exist . I read up on some previous threads which pretty clearly show that while the NH-C14 probably fits under the PSU (about 7mm clearance), the heat pipes will interfere with the GPU. So the AXP140 it will be then, although it's pretty overkill for what I am going to use it for (65W CPU and no OC) I couldn't really find a good alternative solution that was smaller?

I looked at the Scythe Shuriken which looks like a good alternative except the 100mm fan is non-standard and thus I can't change it out for a quiet/low flow model? I also considered the Prolimatech Samuel 17 but it seems substantially smaller than the AXP140- perhaps too small?

In the end I think the AXP140, but with a 120mm quiet fan like the Noctua PF-12 run at low speed will work. The massive surface area of the 140 should have no problem dissipating the heat from the CPU, even with a smaller 120mm low flow fan. Then what I was thinking was to take the 140mm fan on the AXP140 and run it undervolted at 7V to replace the stock Q08 intake fan, as I don't want the LED and the low voltage should make it quieter. If not I can replace it with a different 140mm fan (I'm trying to avoid the situation though of buying a bunch of replacement fans and then ending up with a ton of useless/noisy stock fans lying around).

I'll also pick up the Intel Centrino 6200 Wireless Adapter which will give me 5GHz band on 802.11-n, and 300Mbps throuhput (which is all I can use anyway since there are only two antennas on the Asus mobo). At only $25 it's a small fraction of the total build cost, so why not.

So the final parts list is as follows:
PC-Q08A case (newegg)
i5-2400s CPU (newegg)
MSI R6950 Twin Frozr II (newegg)
8GB Corsair DDR3 1333MHz RAM (newegg)
Seasonic SS-560KM PSU (newegg)
Razer Mamba 2012 (newegg)
Intel Centrino wireless mini-PCIe card (newegg)
Noctua PF-12 fan x2, one for CPU and one for upper case exhaust (newegg)

Asus P8H67-i mobo (mwave.com)
Thermalright AXP-140 (mwave.com)

As stated above, for the HDD I will use one of the extra 2.5" HDDs I have here. Optical drive is external USB. One question regarding the HDD: do I need some special cables or adapters for the 2.5" SATA HDD or are all the connections interchangeable now so standard SATA cables and SATA power from the PSU all work?

The total price now is about $1200, a little higher than originally planned but that's okay as long as it's a quality build. Looks like what I'm ready to go with unless someone has some other input on the CPU cooler- is it truly overkill beyond reason and I would be better served by a more compact Samuel 17 or something?

Ruahrc

 

[Ruahrc]

Everything's ordered! I made a couple last minute changes to the parts list though. I saw they had a new Twin Frozr III version of the video card, as well as a cheaper 1GB RAM model- which I went for instead. It was $40 less than the 2GB version and from what I read in reviews, there is no difference unless you play with triple monitors or play at 2560x1600. I figured by the time I moved to a 30" LCD or went triple monitors, I would be needing a new video card anyways. I also decided against the "S" CPU. From what I read, it was just as effective to undervolt a standard CPU (which I might try), and get a higher speed out of it as well. Also the AXP-140 is a massive cooler and there should be no issues with cooling the 95W part anyways. So I went with the i5 2400 which was about $20 less than the "S" version.

For the PSU I saw that the Seasonic X650 was on sale for $20 less than the 560W version. I figured the two would be similar enough, and I'd save $20.

Finally considering the savings I picked up in the above changes, and after dicking around for hours reading about fans (I was trying to find a quiet set of black+white fans to match an all black+white+light blue interior scheme), I just sucked it up and ordered a full set of Noctuas. 1x PF-12 and 2x PF-14. As I went with the 95W CPU, I am going to stay with a 140mm fan on the cooler instead of stepping down to the 120mm fan.

So total I have:
Lian Li PC-Q08 (silver color)
i5-2400
ASUS P8H67-i mobo
Thermalright AXP-140
Seasonic X650 80Gold PSU
MSI Radeon 6950 1GB (Twin Frozr III)
8GB Crucial RAM
Intel Centrino n-wireless mini-PCIe card
Razer Mamba 2012

Also picked up some IC Diamond heat sink compound. I was able to get everything into 2 orders, one at newegg the other at amazon. I was going to go with mwave but I remember having some ordering hassles with them in the past so I just chose amazon instead.

The total cost was about 1200 after shipping, although I can turn in about $30 of rebates as well. I will need to pick up a new monitor though, probably going to go with the Dell 2312HM.

Excited to get all the parts and start building! I am debating whether or not to go whole hog and try sleeving/shortening all the cables so the inside of the case won't be so cluttered. I always admired the works I saw on million dollar PC and always try to make clean PCs of my own.

I'll be sure to make a new thread and post pics of the build once I get all the parts in.

Ruahrc