Looking for a Good Digital camera (rebel like)

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WesM63

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Aug 29, 2004
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Hey guys,
I'm starting to grow with my digital photogrophy and need a better camera than the one I have (Sony DSC-P51). I have no clue as to what good adjustable digital cameras are out there besides the Digital Rebel. Honeslty i'm only looking to spend $200-$350 on this.

Any inputs, I'm willing to get it from ebay, which is not a problem so factor this into the equation.
 
Adjustable? you mean like dSLR? You won't find any cameras, unless they're broken, for that type of price range.
 
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That auction won't end below 500. Even if the people selling it are idiots, which they are, buyers will flock.
 
dammit quit shoot my hopes down :p

Anywase, can you at lest reccommend some others. I may end up putting down the money if they are really worth it. When i said 200-350 I had no clue as to what they where worth.
 
There is NO, I repeat NO chance you will get a working DSLR in your price range. The lowest you can hope for would be a beat up Digital rebel, as its the cheapest, and even then, you are looking at 500+ minimum :(


In your price range you can pick up a Nikon Coolpix 4200, which is a KILLER point and shoot. I have the 3100 wich is the less feature filled, 3.2 megapixel version.
The 4200 is a 4.0mp with a great zoom (equiv of 38-114mm focal length). I even found an auction fro one with a 512meg mem card fro 279 buy it now.
Also, on the 4200, you should be able to get a couple adaptor lenses, I know you could on the 4100, which were a screw on type tele zoom adaptor and a wide angle.
 
The other thing to keep in mind is if you buy a DSLR, like even just a rebel, you are setting yourself up to spend MINIMUM $300 on additional lenses. SIgma has a nice kit with a 28-70 and a 70-300 for $300.

And then you will want a real flash
and UV filters to protect the lenses
and circular polarizers


Basically figure for a digital rebel setup, figure on
$630 for the camera body
About a grand for lenses/filters/flash/tripod and a bag to carry it in/keep it safe

With a budget like yours you are nowhere close. Even for a rebel with the kit lens. BUT you can get a VERY nice point and shoot that will be worlds better than your 2.0mp sony was :)
 
Just because I am bored :) Here are a few for $400 and down

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=48534&item=3878433233&rd=1 << Probably the closest thing to a DSLR you can buy in this range.. You can get an adaptor tube for this for wide and tele lenses as well as filters. This camera comes with filters adn teh tube already. Only 3.2 mp though.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=48543&item=3878671144&rd=1 <<< Sony like yours. If you have any Sony software installed on your comp, it will work seamelessly I bet. ANd its 5mp, 2 1/2 times as high as yours. Nice camera :)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=48541&item=3879166685&rd=1 <<< Nikon, which means Nikor lens, which is GREAT. 5.1mp, can take nikon screw on adaptor lenses. Killer camera. I would go for this one if I was in your situation.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=30018&item=3878986670&rd=1 << Panasonic, Nice camera 4.0mp, Comes with some nice filters, has a hotshoe so you can instal a real flash, which helps pics tremendously. Really nice camera. I would also consider this one
 
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Dave,
Thanks for the help bro. Are any of these adjustable? Like manual focus is what i'm getting at. I really like the Digital Rebel and might save up so i can pick one up, i also like the Nikon 70D. I'm liking the nikon 5400. Would you recomend this for the price?
 
Dave,
Thanks again for the tremendous help! I've been reading reviews of the Nikon Coolpix 5400 and 5700's. Trying to decide what one to go with right now. I can pickup a 5400 for $299 (buy it now) from ebay. The 5700 is a lil more expensive at $439 buy it now, however the 5700 is dSLR (well from the ebay auctions at least).

Would you suggest the 5700 over the 5400?

I guess some of the advantages of the 5700 is that is has an extrenal flash mount.
 
Check out the Canon A510. There are lotsa little accessories for it, including different lenses. Be careful though, you might end up spending a lot.

The A-series has a bunch of manual controls, try that.
 
the 5700 isn't a dslr... "SLR" (Single lens reflex) means that you look through the viewfinder, and you're actually looking through the lens at exactly how your photo will turn out.

You buy a body that has a mount for lenses, and then you buy completley seperate lenses for that mount body.
 
Ah. Manual Focus. Okay.

Yeah, Those are some good setups Dave has thrown in there. I'd personally recommend a Panasonic FZ-10 - 12x optical zoom, 4MP, manual focus. I own an FZ20, its big brother. It's a really good camera, for a point and shoot.

It won't do low light well (well, no point and shoot will) but otherwise, it's a good setup.
 
The 5700 is NOT a DSLR.
It, like the S7000 or S20, is an advanced point and shoot. However because of the quaility of its shots, and the features, cameras like that are closer to a DSLR than they are most normal point and shoots.
That said, there is still no comparison between the picture quality of those and the quality of even the Dig rebel (the lowest end DSLR).

I saw a comparion between the S7000 and the dig rebel once, same pic, taken with both cameras. The difference was stunning.

That said, the 5700 will still take much higher quality pics (or is capable of, the rest is up to your skills) than your current sony.
 
mwarps said:
Ah. Manual Focus. Okay.

Yeah, Those are some good setups Dave has thrown in there. I'd personally recommend a Panasonic FZ-10 - 12x optical zoom, 4MP, manual focus. I own an FZ20, its big brother. It's a really good camera, for a point and shoot.

It won't do low light well (well, no point and shoot will) but otherwise, it's a good setup.
Click to expand...

another recommendation for the FZ-10 in your price-range. It's really an excellent little camera that unfortunately gets overlooked a lot. The image stabilized, f2.8 12X zoom is incredible. And it has tons of manual features that will allow you to continue to grow until you can really afford a more expensive DSLR setup.
 
SidewinderX said:
the 5700 isn't a dslr... "SLR" (Single lens reflex) means that you look through the viewfinder, and you're actually looking through the lens at exactly how your photo will turn out.

You buy a body that has a mount for lenses, and then you buy completley seperate lenses for that mount body.
Click to expand...

On cameras like the 5700, you are looking through the lens. Kind of. Its usually an LCD in the viewfinder that shows what the lens shows. Including any focusing problems. At least on the S7000 it is.



I dont know much about DSLRs (yet) but I somewhat know my point and shoots :)
 
maw said:
another recommendation for the FZ-10 in your price-range. It's really an excellent little camera that unfortunately gets overlooked a lot. The image stabilized, f2.8 12X zoom is incredible. And it has tons of manual features that will allow you to continue to grow until you can really afford a more expensive DSLR setup.
Click to expand...



Another point to make is that many of the Panasonics are Leicas. (sp?) Which brings with it a certain quality. My buddy is a photographer (too bad he lives 350 miles away, I am sure I could learn a lot from him) and speaks highly of the Panasonics in that range.
 
WesM63 said:
I guess some of the advantages of the 5700 is that is has an extrenal flash mount.
Click to expand...


Dont sell that feature short. There are a lot of cameras with it, trust me when I say its something you want. There is no comparison between an onboard flash and even a cheap shoe mount flexible head. Take a shot in your room at night, then use an external flash and bounce the light off the ceiling. The difference is HUGE. One looks like false harsh light, one looks like natural daylight.
 
Davenow said:
On cameras like the 5700, you are looking through the lens. Kind of. Its usually an LCD in the viewfinder that shows what the lens shows. Including any focusing problems. At least on the S7000 it is.

I dont know much about DSLRs (yet) but I somewhat know my point and shoots :)
Click to expand...

Eh, my definition was just a broad one that described the key feature of SLRs...

sin·gle-lens reflex (snggl-lnz)
adj. Abbr. SLR

Of or designating a form of reflex camera in which the reflecting mirror retracts when the shutter is released.
(The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.)
 
Wow thanks agian for the help guys! I guess someone just misplaced the 5700 into the dSLR catagory in ebay.

Anywho, I can't find a used FZ-10 but rather at FZ-20. I suppose the FZ-20 is better correct? (This guy on ebay is crazy $493 +$45 shipping?)

Dave do you know where I can find a shot of the same picture of the rebel vs the 5700 or something of the sort.

Thanks agian guys and keep em coming. I'm learning alot.
 
Well i found some sample pics at a few diffrent review sites. The Nikon 5700 and Panasonic FZ-20 are great camera's don't get me wrong. However, there is just something about the Digital Rebel that has me, the images look so much more crisp and clear. I'm going to splurge and get one. If I watch ebay close enough I can get a slightly used one with lenses and filters for right around $700.
 
WesM63 said:
Well i found some sample pics at a few diffrent review sites. The Nikon 5700 and Panasonic FZ-20 are great camera's don't get me wrong. However, there is just something about the Digital Rebel that has me, the images look so much more crisp and clear. I'm going to splurge and get one. If I watch ebay close enough I can get a slightly used one with lenses and filters for right around $700.
Click to expand...

You will not be sorry. It may be the cheapest DSLR out there, but its still in another leage from even the high end point and shoots.

I am amazed at my rebel.

BTW I am sitting here laughing saying I told you so (to myself) because when I first read your post, I said to myself, yeah right, this guy wants a DSLR with that budget? Guarantee he ups his budget and buys a rebel.

BTW come back and let us know what you went with once you do it :)
 
Davenow said:
You will not be sorry. It may be the cheapest DSLR out there, but its still in another leage from even the high end point and shoots.

I am amazed at my rebel.

BTW I am sitting here laughing saying I told you so (to myself) because when I first read your post, I said to myself, yeah right, this guy wants a DSLR with that budget? Guarantee he ups his budget and buys a rebel.

BTW come back and let us know what you went with once you do it :)
Click to expand...


LOL.. don't blame you dave. I knew i wasn't going to only spend what i said. Just gotta hope my xeon rig sells quickly (one in sig). I want to take this to Florida in 2wks.
 
Yeah, I upped my budget after I bought the Point and Shoot. 10D next week, baby! DSLR here I come!
 
The lens is acceptable. In mopst circles, the 18-55 EF-S lens is considered one of the poorest lenses that come with a body in a kit. (as compared to the 18-70 DX Nikkor that comes with the D70 kit (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=315813&is=REG) and the the 18-55 SMCP-DA kit that comes with the *ist DS (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=360018&is=REG))

That said, it's not like the lens is going to give you bad looking photos.
 
What would be a better all around lens? I've looked at the Sigma Pro Lens set, they sell for about $180 but are Auto-Focus lenses.
 
Well now when you ask for my knowledge in teh DSLR range, you are going to have to bear with me, as it is VERY limited. But I do know a little about the lenses. Not a lot, but I know a little :)


You want a decently fast lens if you can afford it. While an f3.5 is ok, see if you can find a lens with the range you want in a 2.8
This is what I just bought, should have it wed.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=129503&is=USA <<faster than the stock lens, a lot more zoom, gives up a little of the wide


Or there is this lens, which my buddy has, and uses for 99.9% of his photo work
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=324385&is=REG << More zoom, not quite as fast.

If I understand it correctly, the f2.8 will not only stop action better like moving cars or sports players, but it will take better low light pics


Here is a setup for cheap money with what seems like OK lenses, covering a wide focal range.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=304150&is=USA


Keep in mind when buying lenses, you will want, at a minimum, a UV filter for each size lens you have. You get this, you leave it on the lens all the time, if for nothing more than protecting the lens. You scratch/break /smudge a cheap UV filter instead of your expensive lenses. I got a 58mm Hoya UV filter from ebay fro less than $11 shipped :)
Here is the link to the auction I used, I think they have more.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3877959519&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT



Wait for others here to confirm what I have said, as, like I said, I am VERY new to the DSLR thing, and am only just learning this stuff myself. Luckily, I work with a amatuer photographer, who does weddings and footbal games and such at mu day job, so I pick his brain a lot.



Oh, another lens, which I can recommend without a doubt, is the 50mm canon 1.8. Its 69.99, and I have seen some guys here take AMAZING pics with it.
Keep in mind that you can sell the kit lens for 70-95 on ebay, and if you are planning on buying a new/better lens right away anyway, you may as well buy just the body.
 
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WesM63 said:
heh yea. Dave, now i need to learn about lenses. Is this a good buy?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=297501&is=REG
Click to expand...


If you are going to pay 750, which is about the norm for online prices, you may want to consider just heading to best buy and buying it. They have it fro 799 right now, and you dont have to wait for it to come in the mail. I only had to drive 20 min to get to tax free new hampshire, so it was only $50 more, but I also had some store credit at best buy, so that influenced my choice, otherwise I would have spent that $50 towards the 50mm 1.8


Basically if not having to wait is worth a few bucks to you, consider going to best buy.
I also think Ritz has it for 799 now as well, and at least they are an actual camera store.



Oh and if money is an issue, ritzcamera.com has "bill-me-later.com" in the checkout, which allows you to just pay later, like a credit card. Yes they have 17.99 interest, HOWEVER they have a deal with no interest for a few months right now. So as long as you pay it off before that time period, its a no finance charge deal. I used it to buy my lenses as I wont have the money from my roll bar (selling it out of my car) until this weekend and I wanted to get it ordered :D I only spent $520 bucks on the lenses I picked, and I dont have to pay a dime till July if I dont want to.

I am going to pay it off this month, but its nice to have the option. And its nice to not have to wait 2 weeks the guy pays me, and I deposit it, and it posts... bleh. Just order now and pay next week :) If it didnt have the no interest for so many months thing I would think differently of it.
 
Just to add/correct some of what Dave has said...

If I understand it correctly, the f2.8 will not only stop action better like moving cars or sports players, but it will take better low light pics
The main thing that matters with stoping action is shutter speed, not the apature. However, the lower the apature number, the more light can get in, and therefore, the higher you can have your shutter speed.
For example, (I'm making these numbers/units up) Say it's a cloudy day outside, and you're photographing a football game. You're shooting at a 100ISO (little grain, "slower") (lets pretend you need about "15 units of light" to get a properly exposed image at 100ISO.
Say at 1/250s (shutter speed) and f4.5, you let "15" units of light in. If you up that that 1/500s, you might only let "7" units of light in. But then if you open the apature up some more to, say, f2.8, you might be letting "14" units of light in again.
Say that's still not freezing the action, and you have an very "fast" lens. You can set the shutter to be 1/1000s, which drops you to "7" units of light again, but then you open the apature to f1.8, which takes you back to "14" units of light.

Of course that was just an example, and you could play around with the sensor sensitivity (ISO rating) as well.


And the other main role that apature plays is depth of field. At f1.8, you will have a very slim area in focus, while at f16, most of the frame will be in focus.

Here's an example of mine, shot with a 50mm lens at f2.
http://www.dpetkofsky.com/photo/bottles/image_81474025_1.jpg
As you can see, only the bourbon bottle is really in focus, while the rest are out of focus.

This example was shot at 70mm at f16
http://www.dpetkofsky.com/photo/misc/7.jpg
Lots in focus here! :)

As for what lens you should get...
1) If you're kinda iffy on spending this much money in general, just get the rebel body (if you KNOW you're gonna be buying another lens.)

2)If you're only getting 1-2 lenses because of expense, you definitly want a zoom lens. Preferable one that covers a nice wide range.
Generally, if you're shooting portriats, indoor and outdoor, you want a fast lens in the range of 28mm-135mm.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=97387&is=REG
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=191869&is=REG

If you're into landscapes, you want a nice wide angle, 14mm-28mm or so.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=335742&is=REG


As for birds and sports.... bigger, faster, the better. (this is where you'll spend too much money ;) ) At least something with 200mm reach, and a 1.4x or 2x teleconverter would be useful
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=12059&is=USA

(this isn't a serious suggestion, as you probably don't have the $$... but if.....)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=234444&is=USA





Hope this helps!!!!!!!1
 
Hey Sidewinder, what do you think of this lens? (its the one I ordered, shoudl be here wed :) )
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=129503&is=USA

My thinking is that its killer (for my use and skill level) because its fast (2.8-4) and covers a very good range (28-105--not as nice as 28-135, but its faster than the 28-135's in my price range)

I figure here is what I would consider a "reasonable" budget for me

180-270 for a "general use" lens (see above for what I bought for this)
180-330 for a 70/100-300mm zoom lens
$70 for the 50mm 1.8 that everyone loves here (and I am very impressed with the pics I have seen from it)
Whatever the 2x teleconverter that mates with the longer zoom lens cost. I figure under $200
$200 for a better flash, I think I can spend way less if I watch ebay :)
$70 for the bag of my dreams to carry it all (lol)
 
2x Teleconvertor is a BAD idea. First of all it won't likely fit most of the lenses you plan on buying (Canon designs theirs to fit "L" lenses, not sure about others). Secondly, if you enlarge a not too great or a passable lens, the image quality falls apart even more. Thirdly, if your lens isn't very fast, well doing this slows it down even more by 2 stops, or lets in 1/4th of the light it used to. Take the apeture number, and multiply it by 2. And that is the speed of your lens, which is probably beyond what the Digital Rebel can AutoFocus with (f/5.6 is pretty much the limit on the Digital Rebel).
 
Wow.. really thanks for the help guys!

I was talking with a friend last night that works at Circuit City and he said they have them on sale for $599. :confused: I checked there website, they do have them for sale on there website buy they are $709 after $50 MIR. He's checking for me today to make sure its the DRebel.

I suppose it just really depends on where I buy the camera from and what comes with it as to what lens i'll get. Most likely i'll pickup this Sigma One... http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=191869&is=REG

Thanks again guys!
 
WesM63 said:
Wow.. really thanks for the help guys!

I was talking with a friend last night that works at Circuit City and he said they have them on sale for $599. :confused: I checked there website, they do have them for sale on there website buy they are $709 after $50 MIR. He's checking for me today to make sure its the DRebel.

I suppose it just really depends on where I buy the camera from and what comes with it as to what lens i'll get. Most likely i'll pickup this Sigma One... http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=191869&is=REG

Thanks again guys!
Click to expand...

I would get this one instead. It covers a bit more range zoom wize and is only $20 more. Although its backordered at the moment. I am sure you can find it elsewhere. (ebay?)
check adorama and beach camera too.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=200345&is=REG
 
Davenow said:
Hey Sidewinder, what do you think of this lens? (its the one I ordered, shoudl be here wed :) )
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=129503&is=USA

My thinking is that its killer (for my use and skill level) because its fast (2.8-4) and covers a very good range (28-105--not as nice as 28-135, but its faster than the 28-135's in my price range)
Click to expand...

Seems like a perfectly fine lens to me. :) Keep in mind that it's not truly a wide angle lens, as its lowest focal point is really 44mm (after 1.6 conversion) But it's a great general purpose lens.


I figure here is what I would consider a "reasonable" budget for me

180-270 for a "general use" lens (see above for what I bought for this)
180-330 for a 70/100-300mm zoom lens
$70 for the 50mm 1.8 that everyone loves here (and I am very impressed with the pics I have seen from it)
Sounds good.


Whatever the 2x teleconverter that mates with the longer zoom lens cost. I figure under $200
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=145090&is=USA
http://www.sigmaphoto.com/lenses/lenses_tele.asp#canon

You may not be able to find one that works the way you want, but a teleconverter isn't needsed that badly, unless you're shooting the moon or birds.



$200 for a better flash, I think I can spend way less if I watch ebay :)
maybe a 550EX if you get a good deal, or a 420EX?
http://search.ebay.com/550EX_Flash-...tionZcompareQQcopagenumZ1QQcoentrypageZsearch
http://search.ebay.com/420EX_Flash-...QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQsacatZ15221

$70 for the bag of my dreams to carry it all (lol)
I reccomend lowepro... they make good bags :)
 
50mm f/1.8 since it's so damn cheap and so damn beautiful.

Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 XrDi. Awesome walkabout lens. Be careful, make sure you get a good copy. I'd recommend you buy this locally where you can easily return if need be.

Canon 70-200mm f/4L. Best priced L lens that's good for shooting in good light. The f/2.8L is a full stop faster, but also much more expensive.

As for the flash, pick up the Sigma EF500DG Super. Does *almost* all the 550EX does, for a fraction of the price.

Good luck and have fun :)

//edit: I just realised these lenses are way above your budget. Believe me, good lenses are WELL worth your money. Play with the 50mm for now. I'd probably get the kit for a cheap wide angle. It's not as bad as everybody says it is. Play with the 50 and the 18-55 for now. Then when you have enough saved up, get the Tamron. Slowly build up your collection ;) You'll definitely appreciate the glass when you see what sort of pictures you can produce.

Remember, the more limited you are in your equipment, the more creative you're forced to be. Hell, I don't even have a flash... I make do with current lighting ;)
 
What do you guys think about this lens, its on a DRebel on evil bay that i'm watching.

Sigma 100-300 mm F4.5-6.7
 
WesM63 said:
What do you guys think about this lens, its on a DRebel on evil bay that i'm watching.

Sigma 100-300 mm F4.5-6.7
Click to expand...


Your responses will all depend on who answers

IMHO, that is going to be FINE for guys like you and me. Just be aware that it wont be great in low light, and its not going to be great for "stopping motion"

In decent light, non fast moving things, that lens will take good pics. As good as a $1200 L lens? Nope. To guys like our eyes, will we be able to see much of any difference or make any better use of the $1200 lens? Nope.
 
WesM63 said:
What do you guys think about this lens, its on a DRebel on evil bay that i'm watching.

Sigma 100-300 mm F4.5-6.7
Click to expand...


You won't be able to auto-focus it at 300mm most of the time. You'll probably loose AF ability beginning at ~200-240mm. If it is very bright outside, AutoFocus may still work, but the Digital Rebel's AutoFocus sensors aren't designed to be operated at f-stops slower than f/5.6 (ie, not good when f-number is larger than f/5.6). But also the viewfinder will be fairly dim (being at f/6.3, and also a tiny 1.6x crop viewfinder) so even manually-focusing it may be difficult...

Good fast glass is worth the money (I'm saving/planning on a 70-200mm f/2.8 EX APO IF HSM from Sigma -- a lens that is supposedly not too far off in performance to Canon's 70-200mm f/2.8 L, although built slightly cheaper). If you're able to get this very cheap without affecting budgets for better glass that you can save up for, search for pictures other people took with it, and then decide. Just remember that because someone can get a shot, doesn't mean it will work as well for you...
 
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