Looking for a good backup solution

[Foosa]

I have been pondering a backup solution for about 5-6 computers on my network of anywhere from 2-6TB in size. The only thing that I am questioning is, can I sleep at night with my backups on a 5-6 disk raid 5? After reading a lot of information and horror stories about people with similar solutions to what I was considering, I am second guessing myself now.

Currently, all computers are das only, with a single 120gb external with my valuables back-uped on (images, school files, music, pictures, etc). So a file server with a raid setup would be a step in the right direction. But is it enough for the paranoid? Frankly, not a day goes by that I don’t think about “what if one of my drives fails”? I would be up the proverbial body of water without the proper means of locomotion. I don't like that feeling at all.

Is a simple raid 5 enough? As a young IT professional I am very paranoid, to say the least. One area of IT I am focusing in, is data storage, and so far all I have learned scares the crap out of me. Everything has been doom and gloom if your not running SANiq with full redundancy at a hot site with no single points of failures.(or the likes) And it has rubbed off into the world of my data. What do you consider a good enough backup solution? My backup goal is to be able to create images of my computers store them on a server and be able to rebuild the images at will. This server would also act in the capacity of a file server.

Suggestions, ideas, or insight please.

Goal-
- 2-6TB or storage
-Create images for Fully functional backups
-Keep it under $1500.

Assets-
-I have copies of server 2003 and 2008.
-Access to an older amd 5000+, 550watt psu(antec something ornother)
-The system can (and I would rather it be) headless. No monitor say for setup.


What I am not looking for-
-A parts list. I can handle that, I am looking for guidance.(if I can't make a list I'll ask later)
-A jukebox full of dvd’s
-A Tape drive




Ps: please excuse any typo’s, or badly written sentences, its 2:30 in the am... If you need any more information just ask and I’ll be more than happy to reply.

 

[gaspah]

I think either a fileserver or a NAS.. but make sure you have a copy on the NAS & on the pC... as i found out recently.. having a second copy is ABSOLUTELY necessary regardless of RAID... lucky i used the jukebox of DVD method.. (took me a week to recover 2TB so yeah)

1 Copy on the user's PC
1 Copy on the NAS/Fserve

always have both if your not willing to do TAPE/DVD backup

 

[bexamous]

Well this is usually answered with money. Buy what you can without going over what the data is worth to you.

A single RAID5 array to store only backup images won't be the worst idea. Just realize this array could disappear one day-- I think there is two current posts of people losing arrays. If its only storing backup images it might not matter if it fails you one day however as you'd still have the original data on the individual systems.

Obviously if you want more security you might want a RAID5 array on the server and then external drives that you periodically backup the array to. You give a pretty large range considering the money you plan to spend... 2-6TB can be $300-$900. Two full sets could be a reasonable $600 to an unreasonable $1800.

Anyways most likely not all the data you are backing up has the same importance. I would suggest RAID5 array on a fileserver to backup image to and then one or two external drives to have full redundant copes on for the real important stuff.

 

[gaspah]

I think there is two current posts of people losing arrays

yepo im one of them


and where on earth can you get 6TB raid5 array for $900???? please tell me.. id suck dick for that price ballz 'n' all

 

[Foosa]

6tb for 900$ damn, I know I said I didn't want a parts list, but if you could show me how to pull that one off I will be more than great full.

Having a file server with a raid 5 setup with my back up images on then backing up the raid doesn't sound like a bad idea. for example;

computers > images. Then store the Images on server(raid 5) you then use the same software to make an image of the server to an external hdd or a nas. Or at least the images.


Can you suggest some software that can accommodate what I am trying to do. I have decent experience with norton ghost and I have worked alitle with acronis true image. Would either be viable options for what I am suggesting do? I would spend about $100 (or more if i really like it) on something that is user friendly and can be automated to do full and incremental images.(kinda like alteras but cheaper)

 

[axan]

and where on earth can you get 6TB raid5 array for $900???? please tell me.. id suck dick for that price ballz 'n' all

Here you go:
9 x 750GB at $99ea and you have 6tb in raid 5 for $900

I'll pass on your offer though

 

[Ockie]

search for my galaxy projects, it should give you ideas.

 

[DEX1]

I've had a SimpleTech NAS for years and am totally satisfied.

 

[ilikecake]

Not that I am an expert or anything, but you could also look into off-site backup. For 6TB that is probably not a good idea (you pay by the GB/month), but the way I see it, there is not THAT much that I can't replace. If I have a image of my computer on the array and both my computer and the array go down, I could reinstall windows and all the programs. It would suck, but it is doable. However, I can't re-take all the digital pictures I have collected over the years so those are an ideal candidate for off-site backup.

There was a good post by someone much wiser than myself in one of these backup threads that suggested that you rank the data on your array from 1 to 5, 1 being worthless and 5 being irreplaceable, and only take extreme steps to protect the 4s and 5s. (or something similar, I can't find the post).

I am looking into off-site backup with Amazon S3, and having my server automatically back up the important stuff using duplicity. I made a thread about the server I am building here if you want to take a look, but the scope is much less than what you are proposing (~2TB of storage).

Obviously, if you are dead-set on having redundant backups on all 6TB of data, then this solution is not for you. But, if you are being paranoid already, consider that having a secondary array sitting next to your server will do you no good when your house burns down.

 

[Trepidati0n]

Not that I am an expert or anything, but you could also look into off-site backup. For 6TB that is probably not a good idea (you pay by the GB/month), but the way I see it, there is not THAT much that I can't replace. If I have a image of my computer on the array and both my computer and the array go down, I could reinstall windows and all the programs. It would suck, but it is doable. However, I can't re-take all the digital pictures I have collected over the years so those are an ideal candidate for off-site backup.

There was a good post by someone much wiser than myself in one of these backup threads that suggested that you rank the data on your array from 1 to 5, 1 being worthless and 5 being irreplaceable, and only take extreme steps to protect the 4s and 5s. (or something similar, I can't find the post).

I am looking into off-site backup with Amazon S3, and having my server automatically back up the important stuff using duplicity. I made a thread about the server I am building here if you want to take a look, but the scope is much less than what you are proposing (~2TB of storage).

Obviously, if you are dead-set on having redundant backups on all 6TB of data, then this solution is not for you. But, if you are being paranoid already, consider that having a secondary array sitting next to your server will do you no good when your house burns down.

*cough*

http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1032578881&postcount=6

 

[Foosa]

search for my galaxy projects, it should give you ideas.

http://www.green-case.com/products/case/server/case.php?model=powerful

Where can I find a site that sells this case? I have been looking all afternoon to no avail.



90% would rank at a 4 on your list. Pictures, config files from various programs and I rank game saves up here as well.
8% I rank at 1-3 application
2% would rank at 5 tax info and school work. While percentage wise very small, but if lost I could potentially have no reason to live any more. Most of that stuff I have on my hdd and my backup hdd (both internal) and my flash drive. Last semester I had instances where both either died or where destroyed. Thankfully not at the same time.

ilikecake,

I would have my backup at my brothers house 10 miles away. If I was to do a full backup of a server.(financially I can't right now, broke ass college kid and 1 file server is enough.) But then a hurricane could hit us and take both out. Eastern seaboard FTW!

 

[Ockie]

http://www.green-case.com/products/case/server/case.php?model=powerful

Where can I find a site that sells this case? I have been looking all afternoon to no avail.



90% would rank at a 4 on your list. Pictures, config files from various programs and I rank game saves up here as well.
8% I rank at 1-3 application
2% would rank at 5 tax info and school work. While percentage wise very small, but if lost I could potentially have no reason to live any more. Most of that stuff I have on my hdd and my backup hdd (both internal) and my flash drive. Last semester I had instances where both either died or where destroyed. Thankfully not at the same time.

ilikecake,

I would have my backup at my brothers house 10 miles away. If I was to do a full backup of a server.(financially I can't right now, broke ass college kid and 1 file server is enough.) But then a hurricane could hit us and take both out. Eastern seaboard FTW!

That case design is a Chieftech case, they are part of the dragon class cases (based on the same design platform).

You can find one here (has a diffrent style bezel):
http://www.directron.com/ba01bbb.html

Another diff bezel design:
http://www.directron.com/ca01bbslop.html

 

[Foosa]

That case design is a Chieftech case, they are part of the dragon class cases (based on the same design platform).

You can find one here (has a diffrent style bezel):
http://www.directron.com/ba01bbb.html

Another diff bezel design:
http://www.directron.com/ca01bbslop.html

thanks for the links! Any experience with either case?

Ockie, you seem to be the resident storage guru, can you recommend me a good 8X sata2 or bigger raid card please sir?

any recommendations on backup software? I have considered both ghost and acronis, but are there any other options out there that are consumer level and reliable?

 

[Foosa]

Been looking at parts and re-evaluating what I had in mind to build. All parts say for the raid card I am good with. I have little experience with raid controllers. I would like a decent hardware raid controller but again, I don't know what is decent.

What I would like out of the controller,
-8+ sata II ports
-interface, don't care
-raid 5, raid 6 would be a plus but not required.
-cheaper the better, but 400~ is bout the max I wont to spend.

HighPoint 2220
areca 1120
Been looking at those 2, but again I am at a loss when choosing a controller card.

Any help in selecting one would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Dangman]

Well do you want Software, Hardware or Fake RAID? And do you mind buying used hardware?

Hardware RAID: Has onboard CPU that setups and processes all of the parity information. As a result, great performance. But big con is higher price

Fake RAID: Onboard chip setups the RAID but uses the PC's CPU to process the parity information. As a result, low performance compared to hardware RAID. Big pro is usually cheaper price.

Software RAID: RAID setup is done via OS and parity calculations done by the CPU. Depending on which OS you use, you may not be able to move the RAID array to another PC.

If you don't mind buying used harware, you could buy a Dell Perc 5/i card off eBay off eBay for ~$120 or so with two of these SFF-8484 to 4 x SATA Cables for $24. Thus, you get 8 ports and a true hardware RAID controller for around ~$150 or so. Not a bad deal considering that a new true PCI-E hardware RAID controller is around $300 (Areca ARC-1210) for 4 ports. But those Dell Perc 5/i cards are a bit finicky about motherboards.

Read these threads for more info and definitely check out the 2CPU.com links in those threads:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1298815
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1301566

Also, this list, abeit a bit old, might be of use to you:
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1030500595&postcount=3

 

[Foosa]

I would rather hardware raid over software raid, funds permitting.
fake raid as you call it, I will not do on this build.

I do not mind buying used stuff as long as the seller has a lot of good feedback.

After reading on the above links and looking around more I am liking the Areca 1220 card. Any objections or better suggestions for that price range?

 

[Dangman]

The Areca 1220 is a good choice. Can't think of anything better in that price range.

 

[Ockie]

thanks for the links! Any experience with either case?

They are great cases. However, nothing can touch the new Norco 20 disk case for its price.

Ockie, you seem to be the resident storage guru, can you recommend me a good 8X sata2 or bigger raid card please sir?

Areca and Adaptec is all that comes to mind. Highpoint is an option depending on your budget, but Areca takes the cake.

any recommendations on backup software? I have considered both ghost and acronis, but are there any other options out there that are consumer level and reliable?

As for backup software, it will depend, do you want it automated, or do you just want an extra copy in case?

What I would like out of the controller,
-8+ sata II ports
-interface, don't care
-raid 5, raid 6 would be a plus but not required.
-cheaper the better, but 400~ is bout the max I wont to spend.

HighPoint 2220
areca 1120
Been looking at those 2, but again I am at a loss when choosing a controller card.

Any help in selecting one would be greatly appreciated.

Go with the Areca. You can't go wrong with Areca.

 

[steakman1971]

Not sure if this would work for you - but it seems to work for my needs (although not tested by fire yet!). I'm using Mozy - unlimited online backup for $5 a month.
It's limited to one computer. I have a robocopy script to sync my other systems to the backup system. It's not the faster backup solution in the world. It took about 2 weeks to backup my home movies, picutrs, MP3's, etc.
However - I've got an off site backup now. I don't have to worry about my 2 year old pouring juice on the system and ruining it (well, at least the data is safe...)

 

[Foosa]

Not sure if this would work for you - but it seems to work for my needs (although not tested by fire yet!). I'm using Mozy - unlimited online backup for $5 a month.
It's limited to one computer. I have a robocopy script to sync my other systems to the backup system. It's not the faster backup solution in the world. It took about 2 weeks to backup my home movies, picutrs, MP3's, etc.
However - I've got an off site backup now. I don't have to worry about my 2 year old pouring juice on the system and ruining it (well, at least the data is safe...)

Unfortunately my upload speed is a meek 256kbs.(but down is about 6mbs...pisses me off bad) And that is the highest offered right now in my area. It is a good idea, but would take FOREVER for me.

As for backup software, it will depend, do you want it automated, or do you just want an extra copy in case?

I would like it automated, but don't mind manual work.

anybody have any experience with the lian li PC-A70A or B? I really like the layout, but am curious about the hdd mounting system. Is it difficult to work with when loaded up? Any other grips out of it?

 

[elleana]

Unfortunately my upload speed is a meek 256kbs.(but down is about 6mbs...pisses me off bad) And that is the highest offered right now in my area. It is a good idea, but would take FOREVER for me.

I share your pain... Uploading virtually anything takes just about forever.

 

[jtg1993]

Take the amd 5000+ throw Windows home server on it, put 9 of those 750's in it and then you can back up your pc's and everything, just dont forget to put PP1 on to fix the corruption bug.

 

[Foosa]

1. Still need all the other hardware besides the amd 5000. Its just a loley cpu.

2. I don't have WHS, but I do have server 2003 and 2008 laying around not being used. Basically the same functionality? Or does WHS have some stuff they don't have?

 

[Dangman]

Probably should read up on WHS:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Home_Server