Looking at gaming laptops

[tim-x]

So your desktop is a gaming rig (in your sig)?

What's the purpose of a laptop? Portable computing. Since when does portable computing have to be limited to a "word processor/instant message/email checker"?

When I bought my computer over 2 years ago yeah it was a really nice gaming rig. I also have an acer ferrari 3400 with a 3000+ and a 9700 pro which cost me twice as much as my desktop. If you want to use your computer to play the newest games, i can upgrade my desktop with a few hundred dollars to do that. my laptop however will remain in the dust once it gets outdated with not upgradeability. Laptops are meant to be portable computers. I'm just stating my opinion that if you do a lot of gaming and always want to be playing the newest games, stick to a desktop. You'll be sorely disappointed when your $3000+ laptop's once-expensive video card can't run the newest game at the lowest settings.

 

[Goran]

Which is gonna be in no less then 3 years... His money will be put to good use by then.

Hell Ive got a computer sitting here with 128 mb ram and a geforce 2 and it plays UT2004 just fine. Which is like a 6 year old machine.

So without a doubt the latest graphics card will work for at least another 3 years.

 

[lopoetve]

When I bought my computer over 2 years ago yeah it was a really nice gaming rig. I also have an acer ferrari 3400 with a 3000+ and a 9700 pro which cost me twice as much as my desktop. If you want to use your computer to play the newest games, i can upgrade my desktop with a few hundred dollars to do that. my laptop however will remain in the dust once it gets outdated with not upgradeability. Laptops are meant to be portable computers. I'm just stating my opinion that if you do a lot of gaming and always want to be playing the newest games, stick to a desktop. You'll be sorely disappointed when your $3000+ laptop's once-expensive video card can't run the newest game at the lowest settings.

My laptop, with a 1920x1200 screen and 6800Go, cost all of $1250. I can even upgrade the video some if I want. Just because you overpaid for you laptop, and picked one iwthout upgradable video, doensn't mean that there aren't ones out there that have that. I could sell my lappy for $800 easy, and invest $500 more to upgrade ot one with a 7800go (or even 7900, soon enough). As it is, my 6800 will handle the newest games just fine.

 

[lopoetve]

a laptop is for portability. buying a gaming laptop is a mistake. you may like it for a year or so... but after that it won't play any newer games and you're left with a heavy typewriter when you could have saved a thousand dollars, and gotten a word processor/instant message/email checker that's 8 pounds lighter.
desktops are for gaming
keep laptops for their own purpose.

Lol. Again, my laptop cost the same amount as my desktop, plays games just about as well as it does, and has been playing them for over a year now. And, on top of that, it'll keep playing them just fine for well over another year without upgrading, and I can upgrade it past that! Shop for deals, be an informed, smart consumer, and you can get a gaming laptop that is as fast as most desktops, and NOT pay out the ear.

 

[Jordan1]

I spent ~$1400 on a 2.00GHz Pentium M, 2GB RAM, 100GB 5400RPM, 17" WUXGA, and 256MB 6800 Go in 12/05. It made a good gaming machine. It was upgradable to the 7800GTX Go. Although I recently sold it due to rarely going to lan parties (so I used my desktop 95% off the time.)

But I recently went to a lan party with my desktop and it reminded me how much nicer it would have been to have my laptop.

It makes me want to sacrafice a little video performance for another laptop (I would need to get rid of my deskop).

 

[sarbz]

You'll be sorely disappointed when your $3000+ laptop's once-expensive video card can't run the newest game at the lowest settings.

Intel Core Duo @ 2.0ghz
Geforce 7800go
2GB DDR2 Ram (just upgraded from 1gb )
80gb hd
17" wide screen
wifi
dvd burner

I paid $1600, it runs every game available on high settings, and it will hold it's resale value better than any desktop. Look, I'm not trying to say laptops are better than desktops, I'm just trying to show you that gaming laptops aren't this huge waste of money you're making it out to be.

In the past 2 years, I dumped $900 worth of upgrades into my desktop with cpu upgrades, video card upgrades, and ram upgrades. If my $1600 laptop is still worth more than $700 in 2 years (which it most likely will be), I can sell it, upgrade to a new one, and my expenses would be about that of what my average desktop upgrades would come to.

Gaming laptops aren't better than desktops, they just provide a similar experience in a different way.

 

[tim-x]

My laptop, with a 1920x1200 screen and 6800Go, cost all of $1250. I can even upgrade the video some if I want. Just because you overpaid for you laptop, and picked one iwthout upgradable video, doensn't mean that there aren't ones out there that have that. I could sell my lappy for $800 easy, and invest $500 more to upgrade ot one with a 7800go (or even 7900, soon enough). As it is, my 6800 will handle the newest games just fine.

and how much does your laptop weigh?

 

[lopoetve]

and how much does your laptop weigh?

almost 9lbs, but that's not the point. I take the thing everywhere with me, every day, in a backpack case.

 

[tim-x]

and how much does your laptop weigh?

i'd say 95% of people don't like carrying around 17" 10 pound laptops. Go ahead and claim that you don't care but I'm betting you do.

 

[sarbz]

i'd say 95% of people don't like carrying around 17" 10 pound laptops. Go ahead and claim that you don't care but I'm betting you do.

i'd say 95% of people make up statistics

And my 17" laptop doesn't weigh 10 lbs. It's weighs 8.

 

[lopoetve]

i'd say 95% of people don't like carrying around 17" 10 pound laptops. Go ahead and claim that you don't care but I'm betting you do.

This was never a point you were trying to make before, buddy, and is completely irrelevent to the conversation. You can buy 15" laptops with the same specs for the same price, if you so choose. We were discussing the upgradability and usability of a laptop as a gaming machine, with cost as a primary consideration against the cost of a full-size desktop. My point that an upgradable gaming laptop can be found for a price not far beyond that of a full size desktop, that will hold it's value and be usable for significantly longer than you originally claimed, is still valid and true; you've done nothing to refute it.

I personally don't care at all about the weight. I wanted something as ppowerful as my main system, that I could take with me, and that's what I got. If 10lbs is too much for you, go to the gym, or buy one of the smaller ones.

 

[tim-x]

This was never a point you were trying to make before, buddy, and is completely irrelevent to the conversation. You can buy 15" laptops with the same specs for the same price, if you so choose. We were discussing the upgradability and usability of a laptop as a gaming machine, with cost as a primary consideration against the cost of a full-size desktop. My point that an upgradable gaming laptop can be found for a price not far beyond that of a full size desktop, that will hold it's value and be usable for significantly longer than you originally claimed, is still valid and true; you've done nothing to refute it.

I personally don't care at all about the weight. I wanted something as ppowerful as my main system, that I could take with me, and that's what I got. If 10lbs is too much for you, go to the gym, or buy one of the smaller ones.

lmao
sounds like someone's taking this convo a little personally. keep telling yourself you didn't waste your money on a laptop that won't last you longer than a year and a half for "Gaming" purposes.

Might I ask what laptop you bought for $1250?

When your laptop can't run the newest game that you want it to, and you have to sell it for half of the price you bought it for, and i upgrade my less expensive desktop for $300. We'll see who made the smarter choice. The fact is that once your laptop's processor is bottlenecking your system, your only choice is to buy a new laptop.

 

[sarbz]

lmao
sounds like someone's taking this convo a little personally. keep telling yourself you didn't waste your money on a laptop that won't last you longer than a year and a half for "Gaming" purposes.

Might I ask what laptop you bought for $1250?

I can tell by the specs he listed that it's probably an Inspiron 9300. You can pick them up for that price on ebay.

 

[bigsarge72]

Well, I'm not sure what you guys do to your laptops that causes them to not play games anymore after a year and a half, but my Hypersonic with 9700pro that I bought two years ago still plays whatever games I want (including Doom 3). Hostile also never said anything about giving up his regular gaming systems; he wants something he can move around easier and still be able to play on. If he can afford to have both, what difference does it make to you what he buys?

Anyway, there have been several good suggestions here, so I'll add one I picked up on this forum in another thread, try This Link and look around there. They use the same base computers that IBM, Alienware, Sager, etc use, they have lots of options, and some pretty good prices. It's one of the places I'm looking at to buy a laptop when I get home from Iraq.

Just my thoughts.

sarge

 

[lopoetve]

lmao
sounds like someone's taking this convo a little personally. keep telling yourself you didn't waste your money on a laptop that won't last you longer than a year and a half for "Gaming" purposes.

Might I ask what laptop you bought for $1250?

When your laptop can't run the newest game that you want it to, and you have to sell it for half of the price you bought it for, and i upgrade my less expensive desktop for $300. We'll see who made the smarter choice. The fact is that once your laptop's processor is bottlenecking your system, your only choice is to buy a new laptop.

I've proven that I got a laptop that will serve for well over 2 years for 'Gaming', and you've done nothing to disprove it. I know a lot of people still gaming great on 9800 Pros, and I've got a 6800 with 256mb of GDDR. My laptop does everything I could want it to, and games almost as well as my desktop does.

I got the Inspiron 9300, back when Dell was running the $850 off coupons. 6800NU, 1gb DDR2, 1.6P-M, WUXGA screen.

Name one game coming out within a year that won't run decently well on a 6800NU. I'd really like to see you try and find one. Really. Go on, I'll be waiting.

As for the cost... I don't know what to say. I've never sold a laptop for less than 60% of what I paid for it, and that's generally after a year and a half. We've already pointed out that the 9300's right now are going for a significant portion of their original value (no where close to half, thanks), and not only that, but they're upgradable as well (I can drop in a 6800U, more ram, and a new cpu as well).

And LOL @ your last comment. Do you know what a socket is? You know that every Pentium-M mainboard (laptop OR desktop) has a socket, right? And you can install NEW, faster chips in this socket, right?

Oh, and what kind of upgrade are you going to get for $300, may I ask? Not much of one, I'm sure of it... I can do CPU like you can, for the same price, same for RAM... Only video, and no offence, but the 6800NU is still more than powerful enough to run games for a significant amount of time. (well more than a year).

Next time, don't buy a laptop with an already outdated, mid-range video card, and you'll be singing a different tune. (the 9700 mobile is a 9600 with a speed boost, nothing more)

 

[lopoetve]

I can tell by the specs he listed that it's probably an Inspiron 9300. You can pick them up for that price on ebay.

I got mine new for that over a year ago

 

[lopoetve]

Well, I'm not sure what you guys do to your laptops that causes them to not play games anymore after a year and a half, but my Hypersonic with 9700pro that I bought two years ago still plays whatever games I want (including Doom 3). Hostile also never said anything about giving up his regular gaming systems; he wants something he can move around easier and still be able to play on. If he can afford to have both, what difference does it make to you what he buys?

Anyway, there have been several good suggestions here, so I'll add one I picked up on this forum in another thread, try This Link and look around there. They use the same base computers that IBM, Alienware, Sager, etc use, they have lots of options, and some pretty good prices. It's one of the places I'm looking at to buy a laptop when I get home from Iraq.

Just my thoughts.

sarge

Me neither... my 6800NU is still a pretty powerful video card... I know many people gaming on 9700 Pros and 9800 pro's still, so a 6800NU is significantly faster than that already. Plus the rest is quite solid and very upgradeable as well.

either way, it's been proven that a laptop can game quite nicely, and beyond that, can last a significant amount of time as well.

 

[sarbz]

ooooo...lopoetve with the tri-post! This conversation is over!

 

[tim-x]

I've proven that I got a laptop that will serve for well over 2 years for 'Gaming', and you've done nothing to disprove it. I know a lot of people still gaming great on 9800 Pros, and I've got a 6800 with 256mb of GDDR. My laptop does everything I could want it to, and games almost as well as my desktop does.

I got the Inspiron 9300, back when Dell was running the $850 off coupons. 6800NU, 1gb DDR2, 1.6P-M, WUXGA screen.

Name one game coming out within a year that won't run decently well on a 6800NU. I'd really like to see you try and find one. Really. Go on, I'll be waiting.

As for the cost... I don't know what to say. I've never sold a laptop for less than 60% of what I paid for it, and that's generally after a year and a half. We've already pointed out that the 9300's right now are going for a significant portion of their original value (no where close to half, thanks), and not only that, but they're upgradable as well (I can drop in a 6800U, more ram, and a new cpu as well).

And LOL @ your last comment. Do you know what a socket is? You know that every Pentium-M mainboard (laptop OR desktop) has a socket, right? And you can install NEW, faster chips in this socket, right?

Oh, and what kind of upgrade are you going to get for $300, may I ask? Not much of one, I'm sure of it... I can do CPU like you can, for the same price, same for RAM... Only video, and no offence, but the 6800NU is still more than powerful enough to run games for a significant amount of time. (well more than a year).

Next time, don't buy a laptop with an already outdated, mid-range video card, and you'll be singing a different tune. (the 9700 mobile is a 9600 with a speed boost, nothing more)

Congrats, you've proven that you can upgrade your laptop to a certain limit for an outrageous amount of money. Yeah go ahead and find a 6800 Ultra that'll fit in your laptop, and then drop in 2.0 P-M. Cost much? Fact of the matter is that the money that you're putting into your heavy laptop will build a desktop twice as good. Congrats you spent $1250 on a laptop with a 6800go (mediocre performance) and a 1.6ghz P-M.

As for your P-M 1.6ghz it seems as though it has come up a little short.
http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=1800&p=13
People seem to trust Anandtech and it looks like your 1.6ghz P-M doesn't quite beat the outdated 2.66ghz P4 processor.
But wait... it's called a socket right? Oh that's correct you can upgrade to 2.0ghz. How much is that going to cost you? Let's check it out. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819111172
Looks like roughly $300 to me. Let's see what we can get instead for roughly the same price. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819116238
Well look at that, looks about the same performance don't you think? </sarcasm>


How much is it to switch a video card with dell? $500 for a 6800nu to mobile 7800gtx? Sounds like a rip to me. It's suckers like you that keep manufacturers like Dell in business with innovative ideas like "upgradeable video cards" in a laptop which has its limits and is outrageously priced. What can i do with $300? I can get a 7800GS that'll rape your 6800go and make my 2 year old desktop superior in every way while still under the price you paid for your clunky gaming laptop. Your 6800go is roughly equivalent to that of a desktop 6600GT. Not impressive for the price you paid. I bet you score... what.. 3000-3500 in 3dmark05 if that stock speeds.

http://www.tgdaily.com/2005/09/30/nvidia_geforce_go_7800gtx/page2.html
Tomshardware has its 3dmark05 score at around 2700... i'm willing to give you a few extra hundred points though just out of charity.

My 2 year old 9800 pro will score 3000 as well. Your expensive mobile GPU is equal to that of a mediocre desktop one.

So what's the conclusion that we can draw? That you spent $1250 on an equivalent to a 2.66ghz radeon 9800 pro when I didn't even spend that much for a better computer 2 years ago? And that it'll cost you an arm and a leg to upgrade your computer to a 2.0ghz P-M and a 7800GTX while i can still outperform your laptop with a $300 video card. All for what? So you can carry around a 10 lbs laptop to play video games at your friend's house?

Fact of the matter is that your mediocre laptop won't hold a candle to a desktop with the same amount of money put into it, and if you have to take your mobile "Gaming Laptop" with you wherever you go, I'd suggest getting a social life.

 

[Darakian]

IMO a small non-gaming lappy > large gaming lappy
but thats why I have an x60 on order.

Do what you want with your money and to everyone else stop telling him what to do with his money and get back to giving advice.

 

[skully]

and if you have to take your mobile "Gaming Laptop" with you wherever you go, I'd suggest getting a social life.

Perhaps you should take your own advice. People are giving their reasons why they would like to have a "gaming laptop." They most probably already know what sacrifices in performance they are making in not getting a desktop. To them the sacrifice is worth the relative portability compared to a desktop. However, it sounds like the OP can afford both. He just wanted advice on what he should get, not some poster who resorts to an old William Shatneresque insult when he can't swing them around to his point of view.

 

[tim-x]

Perhaps you should take your own advice. People are giving their reasons why they would like to have a "gaming laptop." They most probably already know what sacrifices in performance they are making in not getting a desktop. To them the sacrifice is worth the relative portability compared to a desktop. However, it sounds like the OP can afford both. He just wanted advice on what he should get, not some poster who resorts to an old William Shatneresque insult when he can't swing them around to his point of view.

I believe his question was "So...what do you guys think?" And i'm illustrating through my conversation with my gaming laptop loving friend that I believe it's a bad investment. I'm going to assume your last line was an attempt to show how witty you are. You failed.

 

[skully]

I believe his question was "So...what do you guys think?" And i'm illustrating through my conversation with my gaming laptop loving friend that I believe it's a bad investment. I'm going to assume your last line was an attempt to show how witty you are. You failed.

He had already stated that he's looking for a Gaming laptop and listed a laptop from Dell that he was looking at. So his question "So...what do you guys think?" was more likely trying to get opinions on that deal rather than was it good or not to get a "gaming laptop". I could be wrong about that though. However, I don't think you'd admit to the possiblity that you could be wrong.

I haven't seen you address the fact that even a 10 pound lappy is alot lighter than carrying a desktop rig to a LAN party. You might have even suggested that the OP buy or build a computer that is in a Small Form Factor case (a Shuttle case for example) as a compromise between desktop power and Laptop mobility. Easier to carry a LAN than a full sized desktop, but still more powerful than a Laptop. That would've been more interesting that saying "Get a life." How... witty.

I was only pointing out that when you failed to persuade people here to your
vehemently argued view that gaming laptops are always "a bad investment" you choose to resort to insults. If you're trying to cover that up or deflect attention from your need to start slinging insults... you're the one who failed.

<edited for grammar and spelling (it's alot better than the 1st draft)>

 

[Stormlifter]

Skully has good points all around. Addressing the topic at hand is always awesome.

It's true, if you really don't need to use your computer in the ruff (ie: anywhere but your final destination) than SFF might be the way to go. Laptop's are great because you can compromise a bit of the highest-end parts and be able to use your computer pretty much anywhere there is a plug and sometimes when there is none.

Great times.

 

[sarbz]

Laptop's are great because you can compromise a bit of the highest-end parts and be able to use your computer pretty much anywhere there is a plug and sometimes when there is none.

That's one of the best parts about a gaming laptop. I can bring my laptop anywhere, and people accept it because it's a laptop. Bringing a dekstop system(or even a sff) to my inlaws house, or to work for a day, or anywhere else, isn't accepted by others. It would be downright rude to set up a desktop to play games in some situations, while casually pulling out the laptop and fragging away for 20 minutes here and there is fine.

 

[tim-x]

He had already stated that he's looking for a Gaming laptop and listed a laptop from Dell that he was looking at. So his question "So...what do you guys think?" was more likely trying to get opinions on that deal rather than was it good or not to get a "gaming laptop". I could be wrong about that though. However, I don't think you'd admit to the possiblity that you could be wrong.

I haven't seen you address the fact that even a 10 pound lappy is alot lighter than carrying a desktop rig to a LAN party. You might have even suggested that the OP buy or build a computer that is in a Small Form Factor case (a Shuttle case for example) as a compromise between desktop power and Laptop mobility. Easier to carry a LAN than a full sized desktop, but still more powerful than a Laptop. That would've been more interesting that saying "Get a life." How... witty.

I was only pointing out that when you failed to persuade people here to your
vehemently argued view that gaming laptops are always "a bad investment" you choose to resort to insults. If you're trying to cover that up or deflect attention from your need to start slinging insults... you're the one who failed.

<edited for grammar and spelling (it's alot better than the 1st draft)>

And my getting off topic was to debate another poster's belief that he's made a wise investment when I believe it was a bad choice. My laptop remarks were not pointed towards the original poster although they should have been.

However his remark "what do you guys think" leaves it rather open ended don't you think? What I "think" is that it's a bad deal because of the reasons stated above.

And if you'd read through the thread you'd realize that my "perhaps you should get a social life" was a parody of the other kid's "perhaps you should go to the gym" remark.
Nice try though. And if you had read it and didn't get it, maybe you should ignore posts that aren't addressed to you.

 

[skully]

And if you'd read through the thread you'd realize that my "perhaps you should get a social life" was a parody of the other kid's "perhaps you should go to the gym" remark.
Nice try though. And if you had read it and didn't get it, maybe you should ignore posts that aren't addressed to you.

Nice try at being dismissive... but if 10 pounds really does bother you then...

You perhaps you should be more physically active... and you can be socialable at the same time too. Soccer or Baseball for example

 

[tim-x]

Nice try at being dismissive... but if 10 pounds really does bother you then...

You perhaps you should be more physically active... and you can be socialable at the same time too. Soccer or Baseball for example

I'm 6", 180 lbs and I play University basketball. It's not that 10 pounds is too much, it's simply an annoyance that i'd rather not deal with. If you want to travel down that road, then if people want to take their games everywhere with them, maybe they should become a little more sociable? In the end the fact remains that you made a remark claiming that my argument was thrown out the window because i had insulted someone, when you had neglected to read the entire story. If you had you would have realized that I was responding to an insult made prior, and you would have minded your own business.

"I was only pointing out that when you failed to persuade people here to your
vehemently argued view that gaming laptops are always "a bad investment" you choose to resort to insults. If you're trying to cover that up or deflect attention from your need to start slinging insults... you're the one who failed."

And now since you have the entire story that point that comment made is now null and irrelevant. Feel free to continue backtracking by trying to claim that his comment was in fact suggestive and did not mean to be insulting.

 

[skully]

Well, for some people 10 extra pounds isn't that much of an annoyance. It's nice to have some games to play if there's nothing else to do on the road. However, the purpose of the laptop was be moved from the living room to occasional LAN party. You're right in suggesting that we should just stick to the OP's query. Also if someone breaks out the insults perhaps one would be best served to just ignore them. I'm not claiming that Loeptive's "suggestion" was really such. Instead of returning the insult you should have told him what you told me and I'm sure the subject would've been dropped. I'm not saying your argument was thrown out the window by an insult, but resorting to an insult doesn't really add weight to anyone's suggestions either. Unless one likes watching putdown contests.

 

[1c3d0g]

tim-x: you're just digging yourself into a deeper hole then you're already in...if you have nothing positive to contribute to this thread kindly refrain from posting.

 

[lopoetve]

Congrats, you've proven that you can upgrade your laptop to a certain limit for an outrageous amount of money. Yeah go ahead and find a 6800 Ultra that'll fit in your laptop, and then drop in 2.0 P-M. Cost much? Fact of the matter is that the money that you're putting into your heavy laptop will build a desktop twice as good. Congrats you spent $1250 on a laptop with a 6800go (mediocre performance) and a 1.6ghz P-M.

As for your P-M 1.6ghz it seems as though it has come up a little short.
http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=1800&p=13
People seem to trust Anandtech and it looks like your 1.6ghz P-M doesn't quite beat the outdated 2.66ghz P4 processor.
But wait... it's called a socket right? Oh that's correct you can upgrade to 2.0ghz. How much is that going to cost you? Let's check it out. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819111172
Looks like roughly $300 to me. Let's see what we can get instead for roughly the same price. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819116238
Well look at that, looks about the same performance don't you think? </sarcasm>


How much is it to switch a video card with dell? $500 for a 6800nu to mobile 7800gtx? Sounds like a rip to me. It's suckers like you that keep manufacturers like Dell in business with innovative ideas like "upgradeable video cards" in a laptop which has its limits and is outrageously priced. What can i do with $300? I can get a 7800GS that'll rape your 6800go and make my 2 year old desktop superior in every way while still under the price you paid for your clunky gaming laptop. Your 6800go is roughly equivalent to that of a desktop 6600GT. Not impressive for the price you paid. I bet you score... what.. 3000-3500 in 3dmark05 if that stock speeds.

http://www.tgdaily.com/2005/09/30/nvidia_geforce_go_7800gtx/page2.html
Tomshardware has its 3dmark05 score at around 2700... i'm willing to give you a few extra hundred points though just out of charity.

My 2 year old 9800 pro will score 3000 as well. Your expensive mobile GPU is equal to that of a mediocre desktop one.

So what's the conclusion that we can draw? That you spent $1250 on an equivalent to a 2.66ghz radeon 9800 pro when I didn't even spend that much for a better computer 2 years ago? And that it'll cost you an arm and a leg to upgrade your computer to a 2.0ghz P-M and a 7800GTX while i can still outperform your laptop with a $300 video card. All for what? So you can carry around a 10 lbs laptop to play video games at your friend's house?

Fact of the matter is that your mediocre laptop won't hold a candle to a desktop with the same amount of money put into it, and if you have to take your mobile "Gaming Laptop" with you wherever you go, I'd suggest getting a social life.

Yes, the top end processor costs a lot. Just like the FX-55 costs a lot. Performance of the .2.0 PM is on par with many high-end desktop processors, so the cost comparison is similar and appropriate.
Fact is, I spent $1250 on a system a YEAR ago that was almost identical to what you could get for $1250 on the desktop market, a YEAR ago. It will still play games very well, and will continue to play games for a year or more, dispite your unsubstantiated claims to the contrary.

Nice job quoting benchmarks on the ORIGINAL PM 1.6. Perhaps the word "Dothan" means something to you? Or "Sonoma"? Google them. Read. Learn. Look up benchmarks.

In fact, here, I'll even do it for you.
http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=dothangaming&page=4
Looks like I'm keeping up just fine, thanks.

You forget that the 6800GO still sells on ebay for close to $200. throw that in, and now I can get the 7800GTX for $300, and blow your 7800GS (which, I might add, is STILL AGP based) out of the water again. And no, the 6800go is a full 6800NU, same pipes, and 450/600 clocks, so it's significantly better than the 6600gt you're quoting.
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2268&p=1
Toms is using the slower clocked version of the 6800.
Oh, and a 7800GTX costs $500, ANYWHERE, and just so happens to be a non-neutered version as well.

If you want me to run 05 I can, but I'll significantly outscore their scores. I guarantee it. In fact, I'll run it now and we'll find out.

So what conclusions can we draw?
1. You misquoted various benchmarks without actually reading what you were quoting,
2. Your conclusions are completely invalid at worst, and simply wrong at best.
3. Your information is sorely out of date.

Fact is, I spent the same amount a year ago I would have on a decent gaming system, and got a laptop that performed wonderfully then, and still performs great now, over a year later. Stop being bitter because you bought a sub-par system.

 

[lopoetve]

I believe his question was "So...what do you guys think?" And i'm illustrating through my conversation with my gaming laptop loving friend that I believe it's a bad investment. I'm going to assume your last line was an attempt to show how witty you are. You failed.

ANY computer is a bad investment, thank you very much. In fact, laptops would be a better one than a desktop, since they hold their value significantly better than the desktop equivilent will.

And my getting off topic was to debate another poster's belief that he's made a wise investment when I believe it was a bad choice. My laptop remarks were not pointed towards the original poster although they should have been.

However his remark "what do you guys think" leaves it rather open ended don't you think? What I "think" is that it's a bad deal because of the reasons stated above.

And if you'd read through the thread you'd realize that my "perhaps you should get a social life" was a parody of the other kid's "perhaps you should go to the gym" remark.
Nice try though. And if you had read it and didn't get it, maybe you should ignore posts that aren't addressed to you.

Now now, I never said anything about investments. I'm talking about performance, and that the cost is about equal between the two, all things considered.

currently running 3dM05. We'll see what a real 6800NU gets.

 

[Nomad]

i'd say 95% of people make up statistics

And my 17" laptop doesn't weigh 10 lbs. It's weighs 8.

Shoot - my 17" laptop claims 12.5lbs - but it is closer to 15lbs + a 2.5lb power brick.

I carry mine everyday - back and forth to work. The only time I don't like carrying it is when I add my M70 to the stack (~9lbs) - then I can feel it, but other than that - it is hard to tell that it is in there.

 

[lopoetve]

All right.
3dMark 2005 scores, for a 6800NU (Go) are dead even at 3000, stock clocked.

9800 Pro seems to get, on average, 2500.

The telling difference is the games, however. How many 9800 Pros can run FEAR at 1920x1200 (medium settings) smoothly? Or HL2 @ 1920x1200, full settings, without a hitch? If you want, I can run some game benchmarks (I'm personally one of the people that hates 3dM, I think all the BS with it is just that, BS).

Crank up the clocks on the 6800NU (it overclocks wonderfully, and yes, I do overclock a laptop video card from time to time) and your scores do even better.

Either way, the system still plays games SIGNIFICANTLY well (which was tim's first argument, that it wouldn't be able to play games in a year) and will continue to do so. And it cost me no more than a normal desktop system with a nice monitor would (in fact, it probably cost me less than one with a nice 17" lcd would), and since I've been doing gaming laptops for a while, I already KNOW upgrading isn't that big a deal (sell old one for 900, buy new one for 1300, $400 upgrade is not bad, and you can make a GOOD jump like that).

 

[sarbz]

tim-x: you're just digging yourself into a deeper hole then you're already in...if you have nothing positive to contribute to this thread kindly refrain from posting.

QFT. I don't think the OP is going to get any more on-topic advice out of this thread unless the off-topic conversation ends. A mod will probably kill it soon anyway.

 

[tim-x]

tim-x: you're just digging yourself into a deeper hole then you're already in...if you have nothing positive to contribute to this thread kindly refrain from posting.

How am I digging myself into any hole? I'm having a discussion with another member regarding the price/performance comparison of gaming laptops.

 

[tim-x]

Yes, the top end processor costs a lot. Just like the FX-55 costs a lot. Performance of the .2.0 PM is on par with many high-end desktop processors, so the cost comparison is similar and appropriate.
Fact is, I spent $1250 on a system a YEAR ago that was almost identical to what you could get for $1250 on the desktop market, a YEAR ago. It will still play games very well, and will continue to play games for a year or more, dispite your unsubstantiated claims to the contrary.

Nice job quoting benchmarks on the ORIGINAL PM 1.6. Perhaps the word "Dothan" means something to you? Or "Sonoma"? Google them. Read. Learn. Look up benchmarks.

In fact, here, I'll even do it for you.
http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=dothangaming&page=4
Looks like I'm keeping up just fine, thanks.

You forget that the 6800GO still sells on ebay for close to $200. throw that in, and now I can get the 7800GTX for $300, and blow your 7800GS (which, I might add, is STILL AGP based) out of the water again. And no, the 6800go is a full 6800NU, same pipes, and 450/600 clocks, so it's significantly better than the 6600gt you're quoting.
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2268&p=1
Toms is using the slower clocked version of the 6800.
Oh, and a 7800GTX costs $500, ANYWHERE, and just so happens to be a non-neutered version as well.

If you want me to run 05 I can, but I'll significantly outscore their scores. I guarantee it. In fact, I'll run it now and we'll find out.

So what conclusions can we draw?
1. You misquoted various benchmarks without actually reading what you were quoting,
2. Your conclusions are completely invalid at worst, and simply wrong at best.
3. Your information is sorely out of date.

Fact is, I spent the same amount a year ago I would have on a decent gaming system, and got a laptop that performed wonderfully then, and still performs great now, over a year later. Stop being bitter because you bought a sub-par system.

I never said the P-M 2.0 was a bad chip. Simply put, the performance of it is not nearly worth the cost as for the same price you could get a D 930 3.0Ghz dual core. Think they're roughly the same benchmarks? I'd beg to differ. I can also sell my 3.2c northwood for $200. Can you sell your 1.6 for that much? I doubt it. I will concede that I did not look up your Dothan benchmark. Upon further investigation I came across this: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2129&p=9 Granted that page is for encoding, and it's likely that the 1.6 dothan's performance will increase doing other things, but it remains on a par with ... a 2800+, and less than 3.0Ghz. Yes for $300 you can upgrade to a 2.0 P-M, but that money added with the $300 sale of my CPU+Mobo, I think I can do a little better.

And a go7800GTX will score roughly 6.5K in 3d05. I think a 7800GS will match that for 60% of the price. Regardless of whether the 6800 go is "a full NU", its scores are equivalent to that of a 6600GT. The 3000 3d05 score you reported is still less than the 6600GT http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/12/02/vga_charts_viii/page18.html. And in fact, I can flash I can flash my 9800 Pro to a 9800xt which i'm sure would increase the performance as well. My stock 9800 Pro does 05 at 2800 at stock speeds.

The FACT, is that my desktop which is 2 years old can outperform your 1 year old "monstrous gaming laptop" with a $300 upgrade (minus the $100 sale of my 9800 Pro r360 core) and still stay under the price of what you paid, while still staying under the $1250 you spent on yours. It will perform similarly to the max your laptop can upgrade which will cost you roughly $600(300 CPU + 200 GPU) as opposed to my $200($300 video card - $100 9800 pro sale).
Looking down the road further, my desktop is still upgradeable, and you're buying another $1250 laptop with limited upgradeability. I'm by no means bitter and that's simply your attempt to make you feel like you've somehow "won" the discussion. How can you consider my system sub-par when I can upgrade it with $200 to make it outperform your laptop in everyway while still keeping my original cost below yours? Seems illogical and with that statement, my "sub-par" system is superior, so what does that make yours?

To the original poster, if you have the money to spend, and you really want a mobile desktop, then by all means buy a gaming laptop. Chances are that you'll have to do quite a bit of searching to find a deal like the one lopoetve got (17" gaming laptop for $1250 brand new). What is undisputable however, is that the price/performance ratio is MUCH better for desktops than it is for laptops but if you don't mind sacrificing some of your money for the mobility then go for it.

 

[lopoetve]

I never said the P-M 2.0 was a bad chip. Simply put, the performance of it is not nearly worth the cost as for the same price you could get a D 930 3.0Ghz dual core. Think they're roughly the same benchmarks? I'd beg to differ. I can also sell my 3.2c northwood for $200. Can you sell your 1.6 for that much? I doubt it. I will concede that I did not look up your Dothan benchmark. Upon further investigation I came across this: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2129&p=9 Granted that page is for encoding, and it's likely that the 1.6 dothan's performance will increase doing other things, but it remains on a par with ... a 2800+, and less than 3.0Ghz. Yes for $300 you can upgrade to a 2.0 P-M, but that money added with the $300 sale of my CPU+Mobo, I think I can do a little better.

And a go7800GTX will score roughly 6.5K in 3d05. I think a 7800GS will match that for 60% of the price. Regardless of whether the 6800 go is "a full NU", its scores are equivalent to that of a 6600GT. In fact, I can flash I can flash my 9800 Pro to a 9800xt which i'm sure would increase the performance as well. My stock 9800 Pro does 05 at over 3000 at stock speeds.

The FACT, is that my desktop which is 2 years old can outperform your 1 year old "monstrous gaming laptop" with a $300 upgrade (minus the $100 sale of my 9800 Pro r360 core) and still stay under the price of what you paid, while still staying under the $1250 you spent on yours. It will perform similarly to the max your laptop can upgrade which will cost you roughly $600(300 CPU + 200 GPU) as opposed to my $200($300 video card - $100 9800 pro sale).
Looking down the road further, my desktop is still upgradeable, and you're buying another $1250 laptop with limited upgradeability. I'm by no means bitter and that's simply your attempt to make you feel like you've somehow "won" the discussion. How can you consider my system sub-par when I can upgrade it with $200 to make it outperform your laptop in everyway while still keeping my original cost below yours? Seems illogical and with that statement, my "sub-par" system is superior, so what does that make yours?

To the original poster, if you have the money to spend, and you really want a mobile desktop, then by all means buy a gaming laptop. Chances are that you'll have to do quite a bit of searching to find a deal like the one lopoetve got (17" gaming laptop for $1250 brand new). What is undisputable however, is that the price/performance ratio is MUCH better for desktops than it is for laptops but if you don't mind sacrificing some of your money for the mobility then go for it.

Personally, I still wouldn't touch a single intel chip OTHER than the P-M. But that's me Either way, the performance of the 930 DC and the PM 2.0 are about dead even, and cost the same. The point is moot. Yes, one is dual core, but for gaming, that's completely useless, as has been proven time and time again. The 1.6 dothan will go for about 100, and I've never seen a 3.2 northwood go for 200 anymore. Did one recently for 150, however. Include in the cost of the sale of the PM (and the cost of buying a new mobo for you!) and they're dead even, yet again. Laptop or desktop, the CPU upgrade route costs the same. Oh, and the PM is far weaker at encoding than most other things, it's strong point really was gaming (vs anything else). The P4 will blow it away generally at encoding and office apps.

We REALLY need to get off of 3dMark05. it's a useless POS piece of software which does nothing for showing real-world performance. Use games, which are far more important... And no offence, but while your 9800 Pro can keep up in 3dmark, it CANT keep up in the games. I had one, and a 9600XT, 9600 Pro, 9700, and most of the others too. The 6800NU will beat it, hands down, at just about any game you're playing. Especially newer titles like BF2. I never considered your system sub-par, but by even stating that yours is not, you therefore grant that mine is not EITHER. And, no offence, but mine will handle future games FAR better than yours will.

And you keep FORGETTING that I can sell the OTHER laptop parts too, OR the more normal laptop upgrade path:
Sell 9300 for 900.
But M1705 with 7900 go for 1400
cost: 500, upgrade: Significant (also includes Core Duo, faster bus, 7900go, etc).
And yes, you can find those deals ALL the time. Shop, be a smart consumer.
I personally NEVER upgrade laptops... I sell the old one and buy a new one after about a year, year and a half... the result is a 500 upgrade that changes a LOT every year. I'm almost due for one now, as it is, since my warranty is now over, and the core-duo (for my work related projects) is nice, as will be the 7900Go


Listen, the point of this whole discussion was about gaming laptops.
Fact: A gaming laptop CAN game for more than one year, contrary to your original claim.
Fact: A gaming laptop CAN be upgraded, contrary to your original claim
Fact: A gaming laptop DOESNT cost that much more (if any) than a gaming desktop, and at the time of purchase, can EQUAL said gaming desktop. (don't forget the screen... you're buying a nice LCD as well)
Discussion over. Gaming laptops are viable systems for the money.

EDIT: And stop using toms hardware... those guys don't know a video card from their mothers dick. There's a good reason they used to be censored around here.

 

[lopoetve]

How am I digging myself into any hole? I'm having a discussion with another member regarding the price/performance comparison of gaming laptops.

Listen, this is pointless. The fact is that laptops can game just fine, and since this is a mobile forum, lets leave it at that. They're perfectly viable gaming systems, portable (unlike a desktop), and don't cost significantly more than a good gaming system, if you shop smart. And they've got just as much longevity (and better resale) than a comparable desktop would.

This is done.

 

[tim-x]

Personally, I still wouldn't touch a single intel chip OTHER than the P-M. But that's me Either way, the performance of the 930 DC and the PM 2.0 are about dead even, and cost the same. The point is moot. Yes, one is dual core, but for gaming, that's completely useless, as has been proven time and time again. The 1.6 dothan will go for about 100, and I've never seen a 3.2 northwood go for 200 anymore. Did one recently for 150, however. Include in the cost of the sale of the PM (and the cost of buying a new mobo for you!) and they're dead even, yet again. Laptop or desktop, the CPU upgrade route costs the same. Oh, and the PM is far weaker at encoding than most other things, it's strong point really was gaming (vs anything else). The P4 will blow it away generally at encoding and office apps.

We REALLY need to get off of 3dMark05. it's a useless POS piece of software which does nothing for showing real-world performance. Use games, which are far more important... And no offence, but while your 9800 Pro can keep up in 3dmark, it CANT keep up in the games. I had one, and a 9600XT, 9600 Pro, 9700, and most of the others too. The 6800NU will beat it, hands down, at just about any game you're playing. Especially newer titles like BF2. I never considered your system sub-par, but by even stating that yours is not, you therefore grant that mine is not EITHER. And, no offence, but mine will handle future games FAR better than yours will.

And you keep FORGETTING that I can sell the OTHER laptop parts too, OR the more normal laptop upgrade path:
Sell 9300 for 900.
But M1705 with 7900 go for 1400
cost: 500, upgrade: Significant (also includes Core Duo, faster bus, 7900go, etc).
And yes, you can find those deals ALL the time. Shop, be a smart consumer.
I personally NEVER upgrade laptops... I sell the old one and buy a new one after about a year, year and a half... the result is a 500 upgrade that changes a LOT every year. I'm almost due for one now, as it is, since my warranty is now over, and the core-duo (for my work related projects) is nice, as will be the 7900Go


Listen, the point of this whole discussion was about gaming laptops.
Fact: A gaming laptop CAN game for more than one year, contrary to your original claim.
Fact: A gaming laptop CAN be upgraded, contrary to your original claim
Fact: A gaming laptop DOESNT cost that much more (if any) than a gaming desktop, and at the time of purchase, can EQUAL said gaming desktop. (don't forget the screen... you're buying a nice LCD as well)
Discussion over. Gaming laptops are viable systems for the money.

EDIT: And stop using toms hardware... those guys don't know a video card from their mothers dick. There's a good reason they used to be censored around here.

Well, I'd have to disagree on your claim that a 930DC and PM2.0 are of the same. I think if you were to open that opinion to other users they'd likely agree with me. The newer games utilize both cores while older games (e.g. Games that run on the original Half Life engine) can only utilize one. And I've actually had offers for my 3.2 northwood for up to $250 (CDN roughly $215 American) as it's a rare chip now. My Asus P4P800 Deluxe will sell for $85 (again had offers of up to $100 CDN) and the cost of a new motherboard at say $125 - $150.

Yes I conceded that your 6800 go (roughly equivalent to that of a 6600GT) is better than a 9800 Pro. The fact is that it's not by a whole heck of a lot. I agree that 3dmark05 is not the greatest software we can use to judge performance, but you seemed eager beforehand to prove how good your laptop could score in it, that is until you found out your laptop scored low. The fact remains that I could upgrade my desktop to outperform your laptop in every way possible and still keep it under the price of what you paid for yours.
Facts about gaming laptops:
1) They're typically overpriced
2) A gaming laptop CAN be upgraded for an outrageous price ($500 for 7800go which won't come close to performing to that of a desktop 7800GTX; or $300 for a maxed out processor that won't perform close to a desktop processor of the same price)

So in the end you're paying more for less performance for the sake of mobility. If that's worth it to you then go ahead. It isn't for me.

Clearly we won't agree so I'm going to leave it at that.