Longevity testing & Bad ASUS experiences

S

SuperSparky

Weaksauce
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
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Fanboys are going to hate me for this, but this comes from many many years of experience.

I have purchased a lot of computer hardware in my lifetime, from 486DX motherboards to nice socket AM2 ones. I have seen the ups and downs of CPU brands, video card makers, memory, and motherboard suppliers. I have had hardware that has lasted for many years to hardware that barely made to the three month mark.

I used to design and sell computer hardware myself for the old 8-bit computers. I have been a system engineer, programmer, service technician, web site designer, and hardware hobbiest at various times in my life. I'm no dyed in the wool expert, but I know a thing or two about computers and electronics.

There is one measurement I find that is completely lacking in reviews of hardware, and that is longevity. Sure, some company may have an absolutely magnificently engineered design, but by the time it gets through marketing and their upper management's hands, it ends up being a bomb waiting to explode. Microsoft's Xbox 360 is an excellent example of bureaucracy making engineering decisions. High-quality, highly rated parts get replaced with cheap and under par replacements in favor of higher profits and lower bids. The final product looks and performs like the engineering sample, but don't ask it to last very long with their cheaper parts under stress.

In the past three years I have purchased top of the line ASUS hardware, video cards and motherboards. I have family members and friends that have done the same. All based upon reputable sites with seemingly reputable reviews of their hardware. I truly believe their assessments of the hardware, and its performance, based on the "new and now" are completely legitimate and sound with their claims and impressions.

However, I have yet to see longevity tests. Sure, even some cheap hardware can over-clock and such for weeks without issues. However, use that computer heavily for months at a time without stressing the ratings (or do if you want) and it starts to break down. This has happened to me with three straight ASUS motherboards (I own other brands as well) and one ASUS video card. This has also happened to family members and friends that purchased the same equipment at similar time frames (they trust me, or at least did). It's a pattern that is too suspicious to mark off as coincidental.

Crashes and spontaneous failures begin, starting with BSOD's and instant glitchy reboots (where things are normal and suddenly it resets). First you suspect the operating system, but after much testing and even a re-install, it's obvious something else is afoot. All of these systems have top of the line hardware in them, PSU, memory, etc. and all running at specs, no over-clocking. They are also on conditioned power as well, no spikes (mine is, and others [as in people] have good surge protectors). They are always running cool and have plenty of ventilation.

Currently, my main system, with an ASUS M2N32-SLI Premium Vista Edition, refuses to boot. It's history has been one of traveling down-hill in reliability (after an initial couple months of stellar and stable operation) to final un-use-ability. For about three months now, you couldn't shut it off, just reboot. If you shut it off, it wouldn't even post. To get it to post, you have to clear the CMOS (a royal pain in the ass for this motherboard) and then boot it and never shut it off again. Clearing the CMOS, booting it and then shutting it off still required a CMOS clear to boot it again, stupid. It's ASAP device (built-in Flash drive) failed about six months ago. It's now dead. All of the other hardware works in my other machines though (I tested).

My video card is a BFG GeForce 8800 Ultra. The RAM is SLI-ready high-speed RAM with heat-piping sinks. The PSU's brand escapes me for the moment, but it's one of those that got high reviews here and is 800 Watts. The hard drives are 320 GB SATA-II Seagate's with forced air cooling. The CPU is an AMD 64 X2 6000+ and so on.

The motherboard this recent one replaced was an ASUS A8N32-SLI-Deluxe, which failed as well (all different hardware). Coincidentally, first the BIOS hosed itself, it was replaced by ASUS, then the sound card started playing at half the sample rate, replaced again, and then the mysterious won't boot issue this board is having.

One may say something I'm doing or my environment is doing is messing it up. It's the first thing I thought of.. I play games, use the Internet casually, I do office work on it sometimes, I live in a very mild climate (San Diego, CA), and all vents have filters for dust prevention. The suspicion drops as my friends and family members with, ASUS motherboards, are also having problems with their equipment.

Software is ruled out, as fresh OS installs or "Live" CDs of Linux show similar issues. Swapping out video cards doesn't affect it. Neither does plugging in a spare 700W PSU or trying different brand RAM.

On a friend's ASUS motherboard, I noticed swelling capacitors and oozing chemical residue near them.

All of these pieces of ASUS equipment were their top of the line at the time. Things that were supposed to have high quality components. However, only time was necessary to allow cheap and crappy components bring down great designs.

ASUS designs some great boards. Too bad some jackass in that company screws them up with third rate parts. I can say with confidence that I will never buy an ASUS product again. I have given them more chances than most should, all giving them the benefit of the doubt, "maybe it was a fluke."

If you are the type to use your computer, at most, a couple hours a day and then turn it off, then I doubt you'll ever run into this issue. However, if you use it all of the time and never turn it off, you expect reliability and robustness out of something so expensive with it's claims of "quality" and "performance". I've never met a gamer that only played for a few minutes a day, and let's face it, nobody else would need that kind of performance.

It's like buying a Mercedes made with Yugo parts. The car analogy is a good one. Some cars run great brand new, but let's see what happens after a trans-USA trip.

I don't know if it's even possible for longevity testing, but if any place can figure out a good way to do it, it's [H]ardOCP. Sure, longevity testing can't be reliably done for the now, but it can be done to gauge the reliability of the past products a company produces. Tests should be with all sorts of conditions, those that use stand-by, those that have power saving features enabled and disabled and so on. Stock settings and optimum settings. The problem with this semantics. It takes electricity, time, space, and money for such tests. Perhaps a "failure database" would be better to track trends. Have the people do the testing for you and enter the data in the database about their system troubles and failures determined to be hardware issues.

By the way, I need to get a new system, any recommendations for a great Intel CPU based system (ASUS need not apply)? I just want a very fast and reliable system that is rock solid. I don't over-clock. I just buy the RAM and CPU rated for the speed (or so I hope).
 
This is why Gigabyte launched their Durable Solid range :D

i no longer buy msi, asus, ecs components of any kind... despite asus getting good reviews still...

but dude, couldn't u have made that rant a bit shorter and to the point :D LOL
 
its all about getting the best bang for the buck....with costs rising they make things cheaper and cheaper...and its us gamers that get the shaft :(
 
fortunately your experiences are not the norm. i still have an a8n-sli premium running like a top as well as an a7v-133 in one of my kids computers. that one gets a lot of abuse. my kid likes to turn it off without shutting it down and the last time i cleaned it the dust on the board was a few millimeters thick. strange how my experience with asus and your are exact opposite. wonder why that is?
 
rhexis said:
fortunately your experiences are not the norm. i still have an a8n-sli premium running like a top as well as an a7v-133 in one of my kids computers. that one gets a lot of abuse. my kid likes to turn it off without shutting it down and the last time i cleaned it the dust on the board was a few millimeters thick. strange how my experience with asus and your are exact opposite. wonder why that is?
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ya i also have 2 old asus mobo's still working . One is A78NX (socket A) and other is P4C800-E Deluxe (Socket 478) , both 5-6 years old , dusty , still working . I guess its ur luck.
 
caps.JPG


ASUS A7N8X "Deluxe" 2.0
 
Sorry to hear about your problems, but like others here, I don't have any issues with my Asus boards. The board in my sig I've been using for close to 2 years without any problems. I bought my son a P5K-E/Wifi mobo and it has all solid state capacitors (at least that's my understanding). Maybe there's just a certain subset of their boards that have problems?
 
gaspah said:
This is why Gigabyte launched their Durable Solid range :D

i no longer buy msi, asus, ecs components of any kind... despite asus getting good reviews still...

but dude, couldn't u have made that rant a bit shorter and to the point :D LOL
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I could have easily, but then again, I would have typed more to reply to the fanboys saying I didn't check this or check that, or I did this or that wrong. People on the Internet do not trust nor accept any claims without mounds of proof to back it up, except of course, social and political claims.

There's always a "Thirsten Howell" out there with their nose in the air that just have to point out every little thing wrong about any post (I leave you out of this category) instead of reading the meat of the matter.

There's also the "not me's" out there too. Those people that even though you have demonstrated a trend, and a statistically sound case, that just because their system is performing well, you must be wrong.

To the "not me's" out there. Plug in the fastest CPU, not the slowest. Plug in the fastest RAM, not a Fry's special. Plug in a fast video card. Make everything their optimum, but rated speeds, and then come see me in about 9 months. When a MB is claimed to support specific high-performance hardware, it should without strain. Slow or mid-range CPU's and RAM aren't going to be putting much stress on a motherboard supposedly designed for much higher rating components.

To use my analogy of cars, don't buy a Range Rover and claim to the off-road guy having reliability troubles that you driving your kids to school every day on paved roads isn't causing you problems. I'm sure with much slower RAM, much slower CPUs and a less demanding video card my story would be different too. You "not me's" out there are probably "apples and oranges" in why you aren't having problems.

See, I should have typed more!
 
not to rain on your parade but the only thing you have demonstrated is you and your friends have had bad luck with asus boards. you have shown no trends or statistics to back up your claims other than your own experiences.
while having hardware fail is not fun, its rather silly to infer because you have had problems then that means the entire company and its products are substandard. also labeling people that havent had the same experience as you as fanboys is, for the lack of a better term, lame.
 
Matter of fact, the OP is not wrong. The problem is not limited to asus. I have had similar experiences with many different brands and the problems are increasing.

First. The capacitors that they are useing are utter trash. These days If I have a customer that needs perfect stability at all times I have to replace the capacitors with black gates or sometimes solid if the customer is up for it.

Second. It is the luck of the draw. Many times the cheap capacitors will be just fine. I ask you all to take a look in your case real close! Do you see any puffed up caps? I bet you do! Are they hurting your performance? Not likely, but they are certainly no longer the spec the engineer requested.

Third. The cheaper the capacitor the more it will vary in tolerance. I.E. expensive veeshay or panasonic BG capacitors typically vary around 5%. That cheepo crap the tier 1 manufacturers force on you is usually around 20%.
 
Not to sound like an ass or anything but QUIT BUYING ASUS PRODUCTS if you keep having problems with them!

I've always used ASUS boards since I built my first computer back in the early 1990's with the exception of a Soyo Dragon Platinum Edition because I was doing my first case mod and the silver motherboard looked awesome :p

I've never had problems with their boards.
 
rhexis said:
not to rain on your parade but the only thing you have demonstrated is you and your friends have had bad luck with asus boards. you have shown no trends or statistics to back up your claims other than your own experiences.
while having hardware fail is not fun, its rather silly to infer because you have had problems then that means the entire company and its products are substandard. also labeling people that havent had the same experience as you as fanboys is, for the lack of a better term, lame.
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I never said anyone contrary was a "fanboy". Nevertheless, "fanboys" do exist. To make the connection between the two was solely your own imagination.

A "trend" and "statistics" are a valid use of the word. Your see, I was speaking from my point of view. So the "trend" from that position showed buying ASUS products, based on how I used them, was bad. The "statistics" or "numbers" were quite easy to spot. More often than not, ASUS products failed for me. The first ASUS product to fail, by the way, was a board made for the original Athlon. So, I do not see where your point is and how my use of the terms were false.

The only "lame" thing I see is your complete lack of understanding the post and drawing conclusions of your own that I never raised. You aren't a "fanboy" nor a "me too", so far, you seem like a "Thirsten Howell".
 
Azhar said:
Not to sound like an ass or anything but QUIT BUYING ASUS PRODUCTS if you keep having problems with them!

I've always used ASUS boards since I built my first computer back in the early 1990's with the exception of a Soyo Dragon Platinum Edition because I was doing my first case mod and the silver motherboard looked awesome :p

I've never had problems with their boards.
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Perhaps you missed the "I gave them the benefit of the doubt" part of my post. Something I still regret. Nevertheless, you may also have missed the obvious fact that I won't be buying ASUS again.

1990? That's pretty loyal, considering they were founded in late 1989.

I don't think you're an ass though :D
 
SuperSparky said:
Perhaps you missed the "I gave them the benefit of the doubt" part of my post. Something I still regret. Nevertheless, you may also have missed the obvious fact that I won't be buying ASUS again.

I don't think you're an ass though :D
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Oh but I am ;-) My bosses think so too. But then all IT guys are asses lol
 
I am not going to address your issues with ASUS parts. I know ASUS makes some good stuff and they've had a couple of turds here and there as well.

Longevity testing is impossible. By the time it was completed the products would have already been replaced and therefore no longer relevant. So that's the reason right there. I have a maximum of two weeks to get a review sample photographed, setup, stability tested, benchmarked, gather data, overclock test, and then write the article. I've also got to capture the BIOS images and do all my screenshots, and then edit all the images, water mark them, crop them or whatever. Then I've got to upload everything to the site and make sure it looks right. Sounds like quite a bit of time but it really isn't. Most of the [H] staff is part time and as a result we all have day jobs. Kyle is about the only exception to this rule I know of. So I have this on top of my regular 40 hour work week and anything else I've got to do. I usually work for a couple hours a night or more and some nights I don't get a chance to touch it. There is just no way to make capacitors swell faster or circuit paths to degrade faster than normal. We also can't artificially age semi-conductors either. So really there is no way to predict how long something will last.

When I choose a motherboard for my system I check reviews I trust, or go off my own experiences with a given board and test setup then I purchase accordingly. Most brands I avoid in my personal systems for one reason or another. Usually my experiences with some brands haven't been the best so I generally stick with the two brands that have served me best. Intel and ASUS. For AMD processor based systems the Intel option isn't a choice, but generally I've kept Intel processor based machines even in light of AMD processors sometimes being faster because it allows me to keep Intel chipsets which can't be matched for stability and quality. At the end of the day I don't want to fight with my own computer so that's worth the sometimes rare sacrifice in performance to get what I want. Not to say that all AMD systems are less stable, but your odds of quirky or temperamental setups are a little higher. I am still quite fond of my Tyan K8WE (S2895) dual Opteron 254 setup even though many people had problems with their Tyan boards. I had some too, but they weren't stability related and I worked around all the issues.

Intel motherboards have always been 100% perfect and totally issue free for me. Intels' service and support is second to none. ASUS has been awesome for me in regard to Intel processor compatible motherboards but a bit hit or miss on the AMD side. The A8N-SLI Deluxe wasn't that great. It worked but every now and then I'd have lockups or some kind of issue. abit Intel chipset based boards have been fantastic for me and their AMD processor compatible motherboards have sucked ass for me. MSI I've had mixed results with and of course I've owned a ton of other stuff, but in essence ASUS and Intel are always my first choices. For gaming and machines I'll be overclocking I usually pick ASUS. Though recently Intel has become a worthy choice for that as well. For server/workstation machines its' almost always Intel or nothing.
 
Dan_D said:
I am not going to address your issues with ASUS parts. I know ASUS makes some good stuff and they've had a couple of turds here and there as well.

Longevity testing is impossible. By the time it was completed the products would have already been replaced and therefore no longer relevant. So that's the reason right there. I have a maximum of two weeks to get a review sample photographed, setup, stability tested, benchmarked, gather data, overclock test, and then write the article. I've also got to capture the BIOS images and do all my screenshots, and then edit all the images, water mark them, crop them or whatever. Then I've got to upload everything to the site and make sure it looks right. Sounds like quite a bit of time but it really isn't. Most of the [H] staff is part time and as a result we all have day jobs. Kyle is about the only exception to this rule I know of. So I have this on top of my regular 40 hour work week and anything else I've got to do. I usually work for a couple hours a night or more and some nights I don't get a chance to touch it.

There is just no way to make capacitors swell faster or circuit paths to degrade faster than normal. We also can't artificially age semi-conductors either. So really there is no way to predict how long something will last.
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I realize that Dan, and I said that in my post (about the impracticality of such testing). I did, however, offer a possible solution to this longevity issue. Let the users themselves post the failures in a database of manufacturers. Past experience helps to gauge current reliability. The database could hold the following:
  • Manufacturer
  • Product type (motherboard, RAM, video, etc.)
  • model
  • purchase date
  • configuration (all of the other parts connected to it)
  • problems start date
  • problem description
  • failure date
  • failure description.
  • pictures if catastrophic failure
  • Remedy experience, if any
Just a suggestion though. :D
 
SuperSparky said:
I never said anyone contrary was a "fanboy". Nevertheless, "fanboys" do exist. To make the connection between the two was solely your own imagination.

A "trend" and "statistics" are a valid use of the word. Your see, I was speaking from my point of view. So the "trend" from that position showed buying ASUS products, based on how I used them, was bad.
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well perhaps you should try another motherboard vendor and see how your luck is with them? but i have a feeling from reading your diatribe that the issue isnt the boards but the owner/operator. hey i could be wrong but i doubt it.
 
rhexis said:
well perhaps you should try another motherboard vendor and see how your luck is with them? but i have a feeling from reading your diatribe that the issue isnt the boards but the owner/operator. hey i could be wrong but i doubt it.
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Hey "Gaspah", it's for people like this guy my original post was so long. Even then, they just can resist.

Hey "Rhexis", what part of "friends and family members" did you not understand? Probably the "friends" part.

I have other computers with Gigabyte and Shuttle boards that have absolutely ZERO problems with them, yet my ASUS issues are my fault.

I do have a curious thought though. How does one USE a computer wrong? Even a virus (which I have yet to get) doesn't wreak such havoc on hardware. I use a static grounding strap, workbench, screwdriver and high-end aluminum case to mount and install the hardware, using top of the line PSU, RAM, HD, Video, etc. You plug the the PSU into the MB, video card, HD, and DVD. The cards slide into their various slots, PCIE for video and PCI for the others. One tightens them down with the supplied screws. You close the case, turn it on, go into the BIOS to set the appropriate settings for boot order etc. and then install the OS. Put the drivers in from the various CDs or download them, upgrade the OS, if necessary. You then install the software you are to use and then that's pretty much it. Keep it clean and cool.

So tell me, Mr. smarty pants, what can one do wrong on an ASUS product that causes it to only fail after a few months of normal use that isn't causing other PCs I own to fail without ASUS products in them? Do I have to sing them a lullaby before I go to bed each night? Is the color of the case just not fabulous enough for them? Yep, you really got me good, it's the "owner/operator" that's the problem here. Just one too many farts in the vicinity for it to handle. Yep, that's it. You got me. Nailed it right on the head.
 
SuperSparky said:
Hey "Gaspah", it's for people like this guy my original post was so long. Even then, they just can resist.

Hey "Rhexis", what part of "friends and family members" did you not understand? Probably the "friends" part.

I have other computers with Gigabyte and Shuttle boards that have absolutely ZERO problems with them, yet my ASUS issues are my fault.

I do have a curious thought though. How does one USE a computer wrong? Even a virus (which I have yet to get) doesn't wreak such havoc on hardware. I use a static grounding strap, workbench, screwdriver and high-end aluminum case to mount and install the hardware, using top of the line PSU, RAM, HD, Video, etc. You plug the the PSU into the MB, video card, HD, and DVD. The cards slide into their various slots, PCIE for video and PCI for the others. One tightens them down with the supplied screws. You close the case, turn it on, go into the BIOS to set the appropriate settings for boot order etc. and then install the OS. Put the drivers in from the various CDs or download them, upgrade the OS, if necessary. You then install the software you are to use and then that's pretty much it. Keep it clean and cool.

So tell me, Mr. smarty pants, what can one do wrong on an ASUS product that causes it to only fail after a few months of normal use that isn't causing other PCs I own to fail without ASUS products in them? Do I have to sing them a lullaby before I go to bed each night? Is the color of the case just not fabulous enough for them? Yep, you really got me good, it's the "owner/operator" that's the problem here. Just one too many farts in the vicinity for it to handle. Yep, that's it. You got me. Nailed it right on the head.
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I've replaced far more dead Gigabyte boards even though I've worked on more machines with ASUS boards in them and ASUS OEMs for far more vendors than Gigabyte does. Until a little over a year ago I wouldn't have recommended a Gigabyte board to anyone I hated much less friends or family.
 
Dan_D said:
I've replaced far more dead Gigabyte boards even though I've worked on more machines with ASUS boards in them and ASUS OEMs for far more vendors than Gigabyte does. Until a little over a year ago I wouldn't have recommended a Gigabyte board to anyone I hated much less friends or family.
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I've worked with a few Sapphire boards, one ASUS, a Foxconn and a Gigabyte. Amazingly none of them have crapped out for me much...and my current Gigabyte board is still holding it out...and I hope it would last a while.

To the OP: I guess its luck? I don't know, but it sucks to see your bad experience with ASUS. Just, stick to another brand I guess.
 
Dan_D said:
I've replaced far more dead Gigabyte boards even though I've worked on more machines with ASUS boards in them and ASUS OEMs for far more vendors than Gigabyte does. Until a little over a year ago I wouldn't have recommended a Gigabyte board to anyone I hated much less friends or family.
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Are you sure it wasn't "owner/operator" issues with those boards??? :eek:
 
I'm a new member here. This is my first post. I intend to offend no one. I suppose I am what most here would consider a noob but I've been trying to learn as much as quickly as I can. I relate my story because I couldn't agree more strongly with SuperSparky that a data base such as he suggests would be a huge help to many many people. My attempt to make a long sad story into a short sad story follows:

1. Approx. 2 years ago developing heart problems required me to seek more sedentary pastimes; decided to get into building my own computer for gaming.
2. Much reading and study.
3. Purchased everything to do my first build based on an ASUS P5N32-SLI Deluxe.
4. Had massive heart attack followed by lengthy recovery. 1.5 years pass by.
5. Did the build. Motherboard D.O.A.
6. RMA'd board only to get back from ASUS a very battered looking, obviously used board. This board had a dead primary PCI-e slot and I am trying to build an SLI rig.
7. Read the forums about this board - consensus seemed to be that it was a poor design and ASUS was not supporting it any more.
8. So I suck it up and buy the now top of thier line ( 8 months ago) Striker Extreme.
9. Do the build. Board is wonderful for 5 weeks. While playing CoD4 computer shuts itself off and never boots again.
10. So thats where I am today. Three ASUS boards purchased - three ASUS boards dead. Computer dead.

My appologies in advance to those who object to long posts but damn that felt good.
 
olsonpm said:
I'm a new member here. This is my first post. I intend to offend no one. I suppose I am what most here would consider a noob but I've been trying to learn as much as quickly as I can. I relate my story because I couldn't agree more strongly with SuperSparky that a data base such as he suggests would be a huge help to many many people. My attempt to make a long sad story into a short sad story follows:

1. Approx. 2 years ago developing heart problems required me to seek more sedentary pastimes; decided to get into building my own computer for gaming.
2. Much reading and study.
3. Purchased everything to do my first build based on an ASUS P5N32-SLI Deluxe.
4. Had massive heart attack followed by lengthy recovery. 1.5 years pass by.
5. Did the build. Motherboard D.O.A.
6. RMA'd board only to get back from ASUS a very battered looking, obviously used board. This board had a dead primary PCI-e slot and I am trying to build an SLI rig.
7. Read the forums about this board - consensus seemed to be that it was a poor design and ASUS was not supporting it any more.
8. So I suck it up and buy the now top of thier line ( 8 months ago) Striker Extreme.
9. Do the build. Board is wonderful for 5 weeks. While playing CoD4 computer shuts itself off and never boots again.
10. So thats where I am today. Three ASUS boards purchased - three ASUS boards dead. Computer dead.

My appologies in advance to those who object to long posts but damn that felt good.
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I'm not surprised. Here's what happened with the A8n32-SLI-Deluxe I once had (the one before the one in my original post):
  • BIOS becoming corrupted on its own. Had to keep flashing it every few days.
  • RMA'd it and the replacement came.
  • The replacement had no bios, kept saying "boot block bios". RMA'd it as well.
  • The replacement came, and it was warped, a good inch and a half difference between center and edges!
  • Replacement worked fine, EXCEPT for sound. It played all samples back at half the sample rate. Movies, MP3's, everything were quite funny to watch...once.
  • RMA'd it. Gave the replacement to a friend with full history disclosure. He has low-end CPU and middle-range RAM plugged into it. It should be ok for him...I hope.
 
SuperSparky - Maybe ("RMA rate tracking" as opposed to "Longevity testing")? What do you think?
 
I too am one of the ones who will never buy anything from ASUS again. Multiple problems with different models and so forth....
 
SuperSparky said:
I have other computers with Gigabyte and Shuttle boards that have absolutely ZERO problems with them, yet my ASUS issues are my fault.
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im glad you have finally seen the light. maybe you should close this lame thread now.
 
It would be nice to see something that might give a clue to the reliability of the hardware you're putting together. Personal experience...I had one Asus board go up in smoke rather dramatically. Then again, I seem to be the only one with my original Xbox360 still running strong. Even with plenty of statistical data these things can be a bit mysterious.
 
A valid point (in there somewhere) however do not expect MTBF numbers when what manufacturers call "specifications" is just list of features. /gag How many of you know how MTBF numbers are calculated and what do they really mean in the real world ? What about if your PPL CLK5 has a positive temp coefficient ? Is that good or bad ?.

I agree in general the state of technical information from manufactures is horrid. Hell is is worse, it is non-existent.


/cheer Gigabyte First with solid caps, now everywhere, first with low RDS MosFETs (or at least to advertise the fact) , now seeing them in other brands. First with annoying double boot and bios settings lost, now common on several brands. First to call a push pull 6 phase power supply a 12 phase supply. First with crazy cool (best name EVER for a "feature") cpu heatsink/backplate on top of the line boards that prevents installing most top of the line aftermarket cooling solutions !!! Thats innovation.

Careful what you ask for, you might get it.

There is just no way to make capacitors swell faster or circuit paths to degrade faster than normal.
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eh not true but it really does not matter. Your central point is vaild, you dont have the time (or equipment) the manufacture could/probally does on a prototype but will never tell us and to test a significant sample of production even with accelerated product life testing would take longer than the "marketing" life of the board and raise costs which would get passed on to us. Actually due to modern electronics manufacturing techniques , the little debacle with shoddy capacator electrolyte a while back aside, its all a fairly reliable product and most failures are probally due to the application/user. No manuf wants a reputation like the OP is labeling ASUS with or they go out of business fast.
 
I recently had many problems with P35 ASUS boards.
In my experience, the vanilla P5K and P5K-E are crappy boards.
All my problems went away with an Abit IP35-Pro.

Asus forum is so slow that I used to click on the thread then go to bed and read the thread in the following morning...

I used to be a huge ASUS fan but I will think twice before buying anything from them.
 
After reading your Post, I began thinking that it might be a TIM Problem again. The Thermal Interface Material must provide adequate heat transferance to keep the North Bridge, South Bridge and Voltage Regulation Circuits kool. I never install any MotherBoard without going through every Component, Replacing the TIM Several Times to ensure they are seated Properly. Sometimes those Pesky Heatsinks might need tweaking to get to sit flat. Sometimes Lapping them to improve contact Surface Tension helps.
There are Many reasons for failure, it's only after many trials and erors due we develop a concensus, that seems to work most of the time!

Some Other Problems, might include Static Electricity spiking those Caps, so one way to avoid starting a Computer in a Room with Carpeting, is to Use a #2 Lead Pencil. A Pencil you ask incredulously? A Pencil with a nice big eraser will do the trick nicely. Every time you need to start your PC, push the Damn Button with the Freakin Pencil and there's no way Static will take your system down.
I call this my "Anti-Static Ignition Remedy" Patent Pending!!!!!!!
Now that I've Told you, . . . . . . . . "I'll Have to Kill Ya!"
 
If I may gents:

I represent a motherboard maker of which many of you likely have our boards in your systems. (No, I am not from Asus). This particular thread caught my eye. The idea of a "longevity test" is an interesting notion but it is not viable for a few simple reasons. The main one being that user built systems harbor far too many variables to allow for such effective measurements. Each systems is built with different parts, assembled by users with different levels of skill, and placed under differing conditions. Even the law of averages is of no use here. A given system that sports a PSU with weak +12v rails, running at say 12~15A will be under far more stress than a system with sturdy +12v rails that allow for capacities upwards of 25A. The system with the weak rails will be running hotter which will have a more rapidily degrading effect on voltage regulating components (on the board and PSU for that matter) than the system with the sturdy rails. This is just one variable. Now add if you will that one person uses the system for light usage (internetting, emailing etc) and another subjects the system to day and night use (download fiend). Yet another variable. The list is endless.

One could attempt to make effective measurements in the cases (no pun intended) of OEM systems. 1000 Dell systems of the same make will have the same components and will be assembled by technicians of the same skill level. But even then the various conditions that users subject the systems to would skew the results. It is therefore unfair, and the be frank, unreasonable to expect PC component makers to provide users with "longevity tests".

I dislike using analogies as user assembled systems are unique devices without compare but imagine if you will a comparison with humans. In most western countries we have a life span of about 70 years. Homer Simpson who stuffs his face with donuts and coffee will likely not live past 50. Mr Atlas health freak will likely live longer than 70, but then again we have all heard a story or 2 about that health nut guy who dropped dead at 40 and the chain-smoker who lived to be 100. The point is that there would be so many variables involved in trying to figure out "longevity" patterns of PC components that any "results" would just be nonsense.

People are quick to point to the obvious signs of damage (bulging elcos) as some sort of measuring stick. Yes, quality of the elco does play a role, but it is again only one factor. If I pump "dirty voltage" (surging) thru any elco it will go after a while, regardless of quality. I could therefore own and operate an el-cheapo MB with a good quality PSU for many years without any trouble, but add a low quality PSU to that same board and it isn't likely going to last as long.

The moral of the story is don't be quick to judge something based on the findings of others. What appears to be an obvious parallel is often not. Their set of variables is not the same as yours.
 
1. How can you prevent "dirty power" from the wall outlet?
2. Which mobo company do you work for? Why be shy?

I am a download fiend, and I haven't turned my PC off in months. My rig has held up absolutely beautifully so far.. but I worry about my rig sometimes, after all the punishment I put it through.
 
I just had to accelerate my new build because my A8N-SLI finally died. I've had it a few years, I guess, but I'm annoyed at its timing.

My plan was to wait for the e8400s to come back in stock and drop a little in price. No such luck.

Probably going Gigabyte or DFI this time around. Not due to any grudge-holding, but just from how happy people seem to be with the P35 boards from those two.
 
That would be a design flaw, not an installation flaw. The past two ASUS boards I have had had some pretty hefty heatpipe heatsinks on them, all connecting the various workhorse chips to each other and the regulators. All were pretty securely mounted surface to surface. However, if anything was lacking, then it was a result of design, not installation. There is no mention of the need to remove the permanently mounted heatsink assemblies and using a surface grinder and buffer to lap the surfaces to a sheen in the manual.

Was there good TIM between them? Who knows, one does not take apart a board under warranty just before it is installed to check such things that should be part of the design anyway.

Static, when installing, I always use a grounded static strap and a non-static surface to work on. As far as its usage environment, I rarely, ever turn the system off and just allow it to go into standby on its own. Clicking the mouse brings it back to life. Nevertheless, my chair and the computer are on anti-static, grounded, mats.

A pencil is a bad idea, since it has a conductive carbon center. Most power buttons (and connecting shaft) are of a sufficiently thick plastic to insulate the inner conductive workings of the switch to be concerned anyway, unless you are in contact with a Van DeGraff generator while pressing it.

Maybe, just maybe, the boards I had just simply sucked.

Jaguar Jim1 said:
After reading your Post, I began thinking that it might be a TIM Problem again. The Thermal Interface Material must provide adequate heat transferance to keep the North Bridge, South Bridge and Voltage Regulation Circuits kool. I never install any MotherBoard without going through every Component, Replacing the TIM Several Times to ensure they are seated Properly. Sometimes those Pesky Heatsinks might need tweaking to get to sit flat. Sometimes Lapping them to improve contact Surface Tension helps.
There are Many reasons for failure, it's only after many trials and erors due we develop a concensus, that seems to work most of the time!

Some Other Problems, might include Static Electricity spiking those Caps, so one way to avoid starting a Computer in a Room with Carpeting, is to Use a #2 Lead Pencil. A Pencil you ask incredulously? A Pencil with a nice big eraser will do the trick nicely. Every time you need to start your PC, push the Damn Button with the Freakin Pencil and there's no way Static will take your system down.
I call this my "Anti-Static Ignition Remedy" Patent Pending!!!!!!!
Now that I've Told you, . . . . . . . . "I'll Have to Kill Ya!"
Click to expand...
 
Nephelim said:
I just had to accelerate my new build because my A8N-SLI finally died. I've had it a few years, I guess, but I'm annoyed at its timing.

My plan was to wait for the e8400s to come back in stock and drop a little in price. No such luck.

Probably going Gigabyte or DFI this time around. Not due to any grudge-holding, but just from how happy people seem to be with the P35 boards from those two.
Click to expand...

ASUS has FANTASTIC P35 and X38 boards. Certainly worth consideration as well. Though between DFI and Gigabyte, I'd choose Gigabyte.
 
gaspah said:
This is why Gigabyte launched their Durable Solid range :D

i no longer buy msi, asus, ecs components of any kind... despite asus getting good reviews still...

but dude, couldn't u have made that rant a bit shorter and to the point :D LOL
Click to expand...

I dunno about Gigabyte's consistency. When they work they're good, but check Newegg reviews (with a grain of salt though) and around the forums here. Lotsa bios looping cold reboot bugs happening. It happened to me personally. Otherwise the GAp35 DS3R had all the right features. Just couldn't get it to work right.

Asus boards on the other hand. Yeah, I'm sure there are crappy ones, but I've got some old AMD Thunderbird boards and early P4s running in office machines for almost 10 years now!

So it depends on what you're doing and what you're getting. Engineers change. Materials change.
 
Woah Buddy, Back the Horses up, EVGA's Forum is Full of Dead MOBO's because of Poor TIM Installation at the Factory, Replaced (TIM) on my 680i becasue it was Globbed on without much thought, so I cleaned it with AS Cleaner, and then repalced everything with High Quality Artic Silver 5 on the CPU, MCP and SPP and Artic Silver Ceramique (Non Conductive) on the VRM Circuit, Dropped the Mobo Temps by an appreciable degree. Some people go to Extremes to ensure their Equipment Survives during High Load Periods.
I've had to repair a Brand New MSI NForce 2 AMD2600+ System that I had buiilt for a friend, who said that just before his Computer Died, (it was in Standby Mode) and as he went to touch the Power Switch a large Blue Spark Shot out about 4 Inches from his Finger. Nothing I could do would bring his PC back up, changed every Component save the Mobo, and nothing. Fried, to make the story short, I picked up another NForce2 and rebuilt it, and gave him the Pencil, it's still working.
 
Yeah, I will never buy asus again either. I bought 3 boards from them within a 3 month span, 2 of them died completely and the other wouldnt let me upgrade the cmos at all, and when i found a workaround it didnt even post. and yes, i did it correctly... When the computer store RMA'd it they said 2 of them were faulty from the get go... .weird...
 
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