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Logitech G5 and Copperhead Razer
- Thread starter jyi786
- Start date
i moved from a MX1000 to a G5 and while the MX1000 did form to your hand and was quite comfortable, i think the G5 is a much better mouse simply because it doesn't make your hand sweat after hours of use, adjustable weights (which i thought where a gimic until i felt the difference for myself) and it slides much much better then the MX1000 across the mouse pad.
I thought I would insert my 2 cents, having tried each mouse for 1 day initially. My previous mouse was a mx510 a pretty good mouse, but honestly not very comfortable for my wrist. First I tried the G5 the Grip texture was a huge improvement, the buttons aren't really slick like the mx510 and goo from your fingers dont accumulate. However why they didnt do this the fist time I dunno (slap engineer here) The tracking was excellent out of the box on the G5, however it had problems on dark mousing surfaces. The loss of a thumb button sucked for me I like my back and forward. While I like the scroll wheel side scrolling, I dont like it more than my ability to middle click. The adjustable weights were a joke for me...I don't need a heavy mouse, it already weights enough empty.
The copperhead fit my hand very differently, I was moving my hand with the mouse, not just the mouse hard to explain, but I experienced less wrist strain and a much better feel than the logitech. The texture was great, the buttons are rough and grooved for your fingures, and the blue piece that wraps around is a soft rubber. There is no side scrolling with the wheel, but it has a great middle click and positive notched feel. There are two thumb buttons easy to push unless you have short thumbs. If you look on other forums some people have been having problems updating their firmware for the copperhead. I will say this mine came with 6.13 and tech support emailed me 6.16b, I flashed with no problems and it took care of the negative acceleration. The tracking is also superb and mine doesnt have any problems on even dark surfaces.
For me I kept the Copperhead, and took the G5 back. The G5 is a good mouse, but its just not comfortable to me, and that is the most important. I'm very happy with my copperhead and I would recommend others to try it but follow Razer's guide for upgrading your firmware carefully.
The copperhead fit my hand very differently, I was moving my hand with the mouse, not just the mouse hard to explain, but I experienced less wrist strain and a much better feel than the logitech. The texture was great, the buttons are rough and grooved for your fingures, and the blue piece that wraps around is a soft rubber. There is no side scrolling with the wheel, but it has a great middle click and positive notched feel. There are two thumb buttons easy to push unless you have short thumbs. If you look on other forums some people have been having problems updating their firmware for the copperhead. I will say this mine came with 6.13 and tech support emailed me 6.16b, I flashed with no problems and it took care of the negative acceleration. The tracking is also superb and mine doesnt have any problems on even dark surfaces.
For me I kept the Copperhead, and took the G5 back. The G5 is a good mouse, but its just not comfortable to me, and that is the most important. I'm very happy with my copperhead and I would recommend others to try it but follow Razer's guide for upgrading your firmware carefully.
ferrisnox said:
Upgrading your mouse's firmware is a crock. That's the most rediculous thing I have read on the forum to date. A mouse that needs a firmware update in order to track properly sounds like a piece of shit to me. I was thinking about trying a Copperhead until I read that.
That's my $0.02.
peacetilence
2[H]4U
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Sir-Fragalot said:
Better than a mouse that's a piece of shit out of the box with no way of fixing it unless you buy a new revision mouse. (G5 can't track on dark surfaces from what I hear, the "diamondback" first revision had tracking problems that had to be fixed with a different revision mouse, which means if you bought it you're SOL and have to blow money on another mouse 6 months later...). Firmware upgrades add a lot of flexability. I like the idea myself.
banGerprawN
[H]ard|Gawd
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They're also ultra-uncomfortable. Frelling massive, and the buttons on the side are strangely difficult to reach. They really look nothing like that in real life.Sir-Fragalot said:
Soymilk said:
We aren't talking about a video card with 300 million transistors and alot of complex electronic functions. We aren't even talking about drivers. We are talking about firmware for a MOUSE. The least complicated part of a PC aside from maybe a floppy drive.
banGerprawN said:
Agreed. I've used them before and didn't really like them. I also felt they were cheap feeling. Microsoft used to get my mouse money, but they haven't had a competetive product to Logitech in some time.
banGerprawN
[H]ard|Gawd
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Stopped giving them money at about the same time as the MX500 came out too, eh?Sir-Fragalot said:
And always thought Microsoft had a real cheap feel, except for this wireless keyboard that I still type on, because it's just really comfortable and all of the keys evenly depress. *shrugs*
Well before you dog a mouse for having firmware ask yourself why it has firmware, because it can save up to 5 different profiles on the mouses onboard memory, something that no other mouse ever made can do. Then you just plug it in, no drivers necessary and it will operate at whatever profile you want. And for the record
My mouse worked absolutely fine out of the box with 6.13, I only upgraded because I could. The negative acceleration problem is only present at 2000dpi with the sensitivity turned down as low as it would go. ..... which isnt a setting any non-retarted person would be using anyway. Ultimately I wasn't trying to sell you one way or the other just give my opinion since I have used both.
My mouse worked absolutely fine out of the box with 6.13, I only upgraded because I could. The negative acceleration problem is only present at 2000dpi with the sensitivity turned down as low as it would go. ..... which isnt a setting any non-retarted person would be using anyway. Ultimately I wasn't trying to sell you one way or the other just give my opinion since I have used both.
Now that I've had the Razer and the G5, I can safely say the Copperhead is the better mouse. It's much more comfortable to hold (subjective), and doesn't have any problems tracking on rough surfaces.
Logitech stated somewhere, "officially", that it's best that you buy a mousepad that is "made" for a laser mouse (crock of crap). That's one of the reason why I prefer the Razer over Logitech, because at least they can fix any issue the mouse may have with a certain surface, whereas with the Logitech, you're stuck till the next revision, as peacetilence mentioned earlier.
Logitech stated somewhere, "officially", that it's best that you buy a mousepad that is "made" for a laser mouse (crock of crap). That's one of the reason why I prefer the Razer over Logitech, because at least they can fix any issue the mouse may have with a certain surface, whereas with the Logitech, you're stuck till the next revision, as peacetilence mentioned earlier.
banGerprawN said:Stopped giving them money at about the same time as the MX500 came out too, eh?
And always thought Microsoft had a real cheap feel, except for this wireless keyboard that I still type on, because it's just really comfortable and all of the keys evenly depress. *shrugs*
That's exactly right. I bought the MX500 and used it for awhile. I still do at work. At two of my jobs I've got the MX500, on my GF's PC I have the MX510 and in surplus I've got the MX1000 and MX518. I use the G5 daily on my gaming machine for games and Photoshop work.
ferrisnox said:
I see your points, and I may try a Copperhead if the opportunity presents itself. You've got to admit that it sounds bad when it needs a firmware update to work out of the box. It's a mouse, not a video card. Granted I didn't know what the problem was, but now that you've brought it up, it doesn't sound all that bad.
Strykar said:Indeed, I was very dissapointed with the 4.0s, we should petition to Microsoft for geek edition Explorer 3.0 or something
I really never liked alot of the Intellimouse Explorers. I always felt they were too large and I don't know about the later models, but the first ones cords would pull out too easily.
The_Terminator
Weaksauce
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It's not just you. It's still the best mouse ever made IMHO. I can't figure out why MS discontinued it.Skin said:
When I heard they were phasing them out, I bought a few just in case. I think I currently own 4 of them. 1 for work, 1 for home, 1 for laptop, and a spare.
MS should bring them back as a classic.
they can update the dpi if they want, but the shape and button layout are too fantastic to change.Heres my review of the copperhead.
Razer Copperhead
2000 DPI Laser Engine Powered by Razer Precision
1000 Hz Ultrapolling with 1 ms response time as compared with 125Hz/8 ms response time used by other conventional gaming mice
32KB Onboard Memory Powered by Razer Synapse
7 independently programmable buttons optimized with Razers Hyperesponse technology for ultra tactile button feedback and maximum actions-per-minute (APM) gameplay
Zero-Acoustic Ultraslick Teflon feet
16 bit data path, as compared to 8 bit and 12 bit data paths used by other conventional mice
High speed motion detection, up to 45ips and 20g / Over 7080 frames per second
Always-On mode pioneered by Razer - the laser engine sensor never powers down to provide instantaneous response at all times during gameplay
Award winning Razer drivers featuring On-the-Fly Sensitivity DPI adjustment pioneered by Razer
Size: 5.04" length x 2.5" width x 1.54" height
GlowPipe non-slip side rails
Ergonomic ambidextrous design
Ultra large non-slip rubber coated mouse buttons
Gold plated USB connector for maximum conductivity
7 foot, lightweight, non-tangle cord
Razer Pro-Tools (Sold separately)
Up to 3 customizable weight standards and optional dummy buttons*
* Using Pro-Tools will void your warranty
Reivew
Its beautiful isn't it? Dont let the pictures fool you though, the lights are not as distractedly bright as they seem which is certainly a good thing. The mouse holds similar to the diamondback but the arch is slightly higher, its definitely noticeable and definitely an improvement. Unlike the previous Razer mice this is actually quite comfortable for me to hold and use. The left and right click are perfectly sensitive so you get no delay between you and your trigger. There are two buttons on each side that are well placed for your thumb binding needs, the opposite side isn't as convenient but by default they're used as DPI adjusters. I've never used pinkie side buttons anyways so its not a big deal at all.
The mouse shape and feel are great, but there is a huge irritating, soul stomping, heart stabbing, problem with this mouse. When I first plugged it in the 2000dpi made my 400dpi sensitivity insanely high, that's easy to change lower the windows sens. Sensitivity changed I start moving the mouse around, it feels like liquid sex on the monitor. Perfection in movement perfection in accuracy and sensitivity, HELL YES! First thing I do so load up Q3 I get in game and adjust my sens and start jumping around, this is when I noticed the problem. When I moved quickly there was some sort of reverse mouse accel feel to it. Unacceptable, I search for fixes and stumble upon http://razer.tigga.org this seems to be the heart of the Razer community. I hop on the forums and see that there are some "fixes" for my problem. A firmware update for the mouse is supposed to cure the issue. Well firmware updated back to q3, update helped quite a bit so I start playing a bit against my friend and I'm hitting rails like crazy. My aim has been kinda shitty lately for unknown reasons but warming up I was shooting at least a 50% rail and it was wonderful. I keep playing in warm-ups for a bit and notice I'm starting to get a little dizzy. I stopped moving around and started moving the mouse fast.....the "fix" didn't truly fix the problem it was still there. I didn't notice it at first because I wasn't rocket jumping much or making fast 180's but its there and its still pretty bad. I use a lower sensitivity with zero mouse accel, if any of you have seen a "Super Mat" or "DKT" mouse pad I use about 3/4ths of the surface area while playing and the problem only happens when I'm moving fast across a longer distance. I picked the mouse up for my friend (gator) if you watch his demos you can see he plays with an insane amount of mouse accel so once the initial patch was done he could play just fine. While it may be fine for him I'm still concerned weather or not I'll be able to play with this mouse.
I'm currently trying to figure out if this mouse overflow issue is a hardware problem or if it will be fixed with new firmware. If its a hardware issue I will be returning this mouse right away if they can fix it with firmware I will love the hell out of it. This is like buying a BMW and finding out theres a non functional piston that no one can fix. Everything is so perfect about this mouse but the one HUGE fucking problem destroys it. I'm really hoping for a firmware update to happen that truly does fix this issue but as of right now I cant see myself using this mouse.
Pros:
Great feel
Symmetrical (personally I think symmetrical mice are better for accuracy)
Great buttons (perfectly sensitive)
Driver customization
Firmware updateable
Insanely accurate and perfectly sensitive
Perfect for High Sensitivity gamers
Cons:
$80 US would be totaly worth it if not for the following
Firmware updates (shouldn't it just work off the bat?)
MOUSE OVERFLOW/ DELAY/ HORSESHIT
Horrible (in its current state) for lower sensitivity gamers.
Razer Copperhead
2000 DPI Laser Engine Powered by Razer Precision
1000 Hz Ultrapolling with 1 ms response time as compared with 125Hz/8 ms response time used by other conventional gaming mice
32KB Onboard Memory Powered by Razer Synapse
7 independently programmable buttons optimized with Razers Hyperesponse technology for ultra tactile button feedback and maximum actions-per-minute (APM) gameplay
Zero-Acoustic Ultraslick Teflon feet
16 bit data path, as compared to 8 bit and 12 bit data paths used by other conventional mice
High speed motion detection, up to 45ips and 20g / Over 7080 frames per second
Always-On mode pioneered by Razer - the laser engine sensor never powers down to provide instantaneous response at all times during gameplay
Award winning Razer drivers featuring On-the-Fly Sensitivity DPI adjustment pioneered by Razer
Size: 5.04" length x 2.5" width x 1.54" height
GlowPipe non-slip side rails
Ergonomic ambidextrous design
Ultra large non-slip rubber coated mouse buttons
Gold plated USB connector for maximum conductivity
7 foot, lightweight, non-tangle cord
Razer Pro-Tools (Sold separately)
Up to 3 customizable weight standards and optional dummy buttons*
* Using Pro-Tools will void your warranty
Reivew
Its beautiful isn't it? Dont let the pictures fool you though, the lights are not as distractedly bright as they seem which is certainly a good thing. The mouse holds similar to the diamondback but the arch is slightly higher, its definitely noticeable and definitely an improvement. Unlike the previous Razer mice this is actually quite comfortable for me to hold and use. The left and right click are perfectly sensitive so you get no delay between you and your trigger. There are two buttons on each side that are well placed for your thumb binding needs, the opposite side isn't as convenient but by default they're used as DPI adjusters. I've never used pinkie side buttons anyways so its not a big deal at all.
The mouse shape and feel are great, but there is a huge irritating, soul stomping, heart stabbing, problem with this mouse. When I first plugged it in the 2000dpi made my 400dpi sensitivity insanely high, that's easy to change lower the windows sens. Sensitivity changed I start moving the mouse around, it feels like liquid sex on the monitor. Perfection in movement perfection in accuracy and sensitivity, HELL YES! First thing I do so load up Q3 I get in game and adjust my sens and start jumping around, this is when I noticed the problem. When I moved quickly there was some sort of reverse mouse accel feel to it. Unacceptable, I search for fixes and stumble upon http://razer.tigga.org this seems to be the heart of the Razer community. I hop on the forums and see that there are some "fixes" for my problem. A firmware update for the mouse is supposed to cure the issue. Well firmware updated back to q3, update helped quite a bit so I start playing a bit against my friend and I'm hitting rails like crazy. My aim has been kinda shitty lately for unknown reasons but warming up I was shooting at least a 50% rail and it was wonderful. I keep playing in warm-ups for a bit and notice I'm starting to get a little dizzy. I stopped moving around and started moving the mouse fast.....the "fix" didn't truly fix the problem it was still there. I didn't notice it at first because I wasn't rocket jumping much or making fast 180's but its there and its still pretty bad. I use a lower sensitivity with zero mouse accel, if any of you have seen a "Super Mat" or "DKT" mouse pad I use about 3/4ths of the surface area while playing and the problem only happens when I'm moving fast across a longer distance. I picked the mouse up for my friend (gator) if you watch his demos you can see he plays with an insane amount of mouse accel so once the initial patch was done he could play just fine. While it may be fine for him I'm still concerned weather or not I'll be able to play with this mouse.
I'm currently trying to figure out if this mouse overflow issue is a hardware problem or if it will be fixed with new firmware. If its a hardware issue I will be returning this mouse right away if they can fix it with firmware I will love the hell out of it. This is like buying a BMW and finding out theres a non functional piston that no one can fix. Everything is so perfect about this mouse but the one HUGE fucking problem destroys it. I'm really hoping for a firmware update to happen that truly does fix this issue but as of right now I cant see myself using this mouse.
Pros:
Great feel
Symmetrical (personally I think symmetrical mice are better for accuracy)
Great buttons (perfectly sensitive)
Driver customization
Firmware updateable
Insanely accurate and perfectly sensitive
Perfect for High Sensitivity gamers
Cons:
$80 US would be totaly worth it if not for the following
Firmware updates (shouldn't it just work off the bat?)
MOUSE OVERFLOW/ DELAY/ HORSESHIT
Horrible (in its current state) for lower sensitivity gamers.
The_Terminator
Weaksauce
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2004
- Messages
- 94
Strykar said:
I had one of the ALienware IE3 mouses...those were the free ones given away at quakecon last year or the year before. They handed out ratpads and the 3.0's to everyone until they ran out (some 3,000 were given away).
BTW: I really like my copperhead. I think it is the closest feel to the best mouse I ever used in games (surprisingly) which was the original A4Tech 800 DPI double wheel mouse. That was light and tracked better than even the original Boomslang (which I gave away.)
I also gave away my IE3 from Q'con, it sucked in comparison to the A4Tech old tech mouse I still had. That was mostly because I move my hand way too quick for almost any sensor type mouse (except for the new gen MX and Lasers)...freakin turn too fast and I was looking straight down or up and not at the target.
Anyone have a G7? I should be getting mine on friday. really looking forward to being free of a cord. Almost went with copperhead, but I went with razer last time*diamondback* and I wasn't happy with it so I gave it to my GF who has much smaller hands. I purchased a MX510 and love everything about it except the cord. Just got a new Func F-series F10.s mouse pad too and i'm absolutely loving it..
http://www.hardwaremods.com/reviews/mouse-pad/func/f-series.html
http://www.hardwaremods.com/reviews/mouse-pad/func/f-series.html
banGerprawN
[H]ard|Gawd
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Ah, I remember those. I bought one on some reccommendations for a decent cheap mouse (hey, I was unemployed and 14 years old, don't start with me!BBA said:
) and I thought it the worst investment I ever made, really. The buttons on the side used to annoy the crap outta me. You're right though, the tracking was pretty damn good, I'll give it that. Pretty much a perfect speed at the highest sensitivity in Windows.
Curve said:I never used that upper button on the left side anyway so it doesn't matter to me. Logitech all the way
Well believe it or not, a lot of people did, and that's one of the reasons why they're detracted from the G5. Me included.
banGerprawN
[H]ard|Gawd
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Indeed.Strykar said:I couldn't live without my 2 side buttons
Copperhead 4 t3h w1n!!1
Had a chance to use the G7, and here are my impressions, along with a couple photos:
Doesn't have as good of a surface texture as the G5, the G5 is almost a rough texture that feels great to hold on to. As for precision, both mice feel the same. The color of the G7 is not as hideous as it looks online, the website makes it look like a bright teal green, and in reality it's a very dark green, almost black.
The one mouse button thing still kills me, I use back/forth on my mouse very frequently, and for Logitech to say they removed the second button because gamers don't need it, but still include the useless tilt scrolling wheel (which I have never once touched), is rather stupid.
The battery meter also doubles as your sensitivity meter, when you change sensitivity it lights up in orange to show which setting you are on, then after a few seconds it changes back to being a battery meter, very nice.
I also compared these mice to the Copperhead, and while I mostly like the way the Copperhead feels, and I love how subtle clicking its' middle button is, I find that mouse is just not as precise as the Logitech mice. It doesn't feel very accurate to me in general use, plain and simple, and their software is really messy. I had to do all kinds of screwing around with the Copperhead to get it to work, rebooting countless times and unplugging/replugging.
One problem to note with the G7, the setup program for its' Setpoint software would not work off the CD. The setup program would just be abysmally slow and constantly crash. The only way I was able to install the software was to copy the CD folder to my hard drive and run it there.
Windows X64 Users: The G7's CD includes a x64 driver!
Doesn't have as good of a surface texture as the G5, the G5 is almost a rough texture that feels great to hold on to. As for precision, both mice feel the same. The color of the G7 is not as hideous as it looks online, the website makes it look like a bright teal green, and in reality it's a very dark green, almost black.
The one mouse button thing still kills me, I use back/forth on my mouse very frequently, and for Logitech to say they removed the second button because gamers don't need it, but still include the useless tilt scrolling wheel (which I have never once touched), is rather stupid.
The battery meter also doubles as your sensitivity meter, when you change sensitivity it lights up in orange to show which setting you are on, then after a few seconds it changes back to being a battery meter, very nice.
I also compared these mice to the Copperhead, and while I mostly like the way the Copperhead feels, and I love how subtle clicking its' middle button is, I find that mouse is just not as precise as the Logitech mice. It doesn't feel very accurate to me in general use, plain and simple, and their software is really messy. I had to do all kinds of screwing around with the Copperhead to get it to work, rebooting countless times and unplugging/replugging.
One problem to note with the G7, the setup program for its' Setpoint software would not work off the CD. The setup program would just be abysmally slow and constantly crash. The only way I was able to install the software was to copy the CD folder to my hard drive and run it there.
Windows X64 Users: The G7's CD includes a x64 driver!
I initially purchase the diamondback. While I enjoyed the feel a mouse is usless if it will not work on the computer. I tried the tech support and I even ended up stumping them. Ended up selling the diamondback to my roomate and purchased a G5. I must say that it is one of the best mice I have had as far as tracking and grip but the middle mouse button is a pain to click and after a while I feel more strain then I did w/ my old IE3 mouse which finally died. I would have purchased the Copperhead but after having one razer that didn't work decided not to take a chance on another.
northrop
grumman
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- Sep 27, 2005
- Messages
- 10,875
My IE3.0 is dieing on me, I cant use the roller anymore, and the left click sometimes reacts as double or triple click which can be very irritating when working in PhotoShop. I went to my local BB, and I looked at the Copperhead and maybe it was just a bad display mouse, but I wasnt impressed by how it felt in my hand. The side buttons were a little awkward too. So now Im split between Logitech MX 1000 and MX 518. From the two, which one would you recommend? I dont want the G5/7 because I need my two side buttons (we have a regular two button mousse at school
makes me wanna kill someone).
I also found this mouse on the MS site http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/productdetails.aspx?pid=049 but cant find it on sale anywhere.
Any suggestions are more then welcome. Thanks.
I also found this mouse on the MS site http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/productdetails.aspx?pid=049 but cant find it on sale anywhere.
Any suggestions are more then welcome. Thanks.
banGerprawN
[H]ard|Gawd
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- Apr 15, 2005
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Definitely the MX518. As far as I'm concerned, the sensitivity is spot on, it has 2 side buttons, a great feel, and no matter what anyone says, there IS lag in wireless!northrop said:
Just got my G7 this morning. After reading several user reviews and having first hand experience with Razer I decided to purchase the G7 over the copperhead.
My first thought when I gripped the mouse was it felt almost identical to my mx510. The most noticable difference to me was how the left side button clicked. It feels a little stiffer than the 510. Since I only used the one button on the 510 It doesn't bother me that they removed the other one. The mouse feels pretty light too, which is good for me. The mouse, as mentioned above, looks nothing like the pics on the web. The green is really dark. The best thing about this mouse is it does NOT lag at all.
The dpi button is pretty cool too. Just a press of a button once I leave a game and i'm ready to go surfing. Also, I really haven't tried the tilt scroll wheel yet, but If I can use it as a button in a game that's cool.
Ok, now time for the cons:
As someone mentioned the software cd is screwy. My instal crashed towards the end of the install, but I did finaly get it installed.
I'm tempted to say price, but I really think it was worth the 80.00 I spent on it. Not having to deal with a corded mouse and not have any lag is awesome.
My first thought when I gripped the mouse was it felt almost identical to my mx510. The most noticable difference to me was how the left side button clicked. It feels a little stiffer than the 510. Since I only used the one button on the 510 It doesn't bother me that they removed the other one. The mouse feels pretty light too, which is good for me. The mouse, as mentioned above, looks nothing like the pics on the web. The green is really dark. The best thing about this mouse is it does NOT lag at all.
The dpi button is pretty cool too. Just a press of a button once I leave a game and i'm ready to go surfing.
Also, I really haven't tried the tilt scroll wheel yet, but If I can use it as a button in a game that's cool. Ok, now time for the cons:
As someone mentioned the software cd is screwy. My instal crashed towards the end of the install, but I did finaly get it installed.
I'm tempted to say price, but I really think it was worth the 80.00 I spent on it. Not having to deal with a corded mouse and not have any lag is awesome.