locked 2500's?

D

Dome

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 16, 2002
Messages
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i keep hearing that AMD locked the barton 2500, which i was planning on buying in a couple of weeks (soon as i get back to school)

does this mean i can't overclock it? i'm setup to buy $100 on cooling so i can oc it a bit (just want a bit of kick, i'm not greedy) to maybe like about 2 GHz or something. but if i can't oc it i might just buy intel and wait til i can afford cooling to OC that instead

the intel system i've priced out costs 50 bucks more than my system now w/ cooling, but runs stock at faster cpu speeds...
 
Yup, all 2500+'s after week 39 are locked. Mine is locked but I have it at 3200+ speeds, along with many others here. You can still up the FSB which is easy if you have PC3200 RAM, just put it at 200 and you have a 3200+ and your RAM runs at its default speed. Which mobo are you going to use?
 
just because they r locked doesn't mean u can't get a good oc.

look at my sig

EDIT:
wish i had the lower multiplier so i can go much higher on my fsb cuz DFI nf2 boards r know to go 240+ on the fsb
 
i'm planning on buying NF7-s and 3200 corsair xms

is 3200 a pretty standard overclock? i'm going to be buying a thermalright slk 947 with the 92x92 double BB tornado on top (with vantec Multifunction controller to watch temps and turn down the tornado)

do you think that's enough cooling for overclocking? i'd be really happy w/ about 2.4 GHz speeds...
 
Many people can get to 11x200 (2.2ghz, 3200 speeds) just by upping the FSB (even locked processors can up FSB). But as always, YMMV. Just give your 2500 a try and see what it can do. Maybe you'll get lucky and hit a high number.
 
Yeah you should have no problem. I am using stock cooling and I know I can push past 3200+ but I don't see the need.
 
thanks, i'll probably just do that, this will be the first time i build my own computer, much less overclock so i hope its not complicated. it is all software right?

also: if its so easy to just bump up fsp why is it being locked such a big deal?
 
id get pc 3500 over the 3200 that way you can reach the limit of the cpu, relax the timming or increase the vdimm and go for 220fsb for 2420mhz:eek:
 
I have an earlier 2500+ and it wont oc for crap so I'm just giving ya'll a heads up if you happen to want to buy a used 2500+. I'm not sure what week or revision mine is but i do know that it is brown colored. I will have to take it out and record what type it is and all. My dad is getting a 2500 so im going to swap with him but his will be multi locked :eek: Hoping for 11x220 but 11x200 will be more than enough to make me content.
 
Barton core derivatives after week 39 are locked too. By that I mean the new Thorton core chips that are really just Bartons with half the L2 cut off. I got a 2400+ Thorton for Christmas made in week 43 and I wasn't able to unlock the multiplier or open up he extra L2 cache like I was hoping to do.
 
http://www.all4amd.netfirms.com/

that chip @ the bottom (unlocked) i just got from newegg since my 2500 is locked. will put it in once i finish installing my new pump in my case and ill get benchies and oc speeds

PS
U all will shit when u c the stepping and week and remember i just got the chip today from newegg
 
here's a question tho:

why overclock a barton when for the same price as a barton + cooling you could buy a P4 2.4c and run it stock at speeds as fast as the barton and higher?

i mean thinking cost-wise here is there a reason for me to pick the barton system and overclocking instead of going w/ intel and just putting the parts together and turning it on?

right now, price-wise, i'm not saving any money on the amd system because of overclocking stuff. infact, the intel system is almost 100 dollars cheaper...
 
Originally posted by Dome
here's a question tho:

why overclock a barton when for the same price as a barton + cooling you could buy a P4 2.4c and run it stock at speeds as fast as the barton and higher?

i mean thinking cost-wise here is there a reason for me to pick the barton system and overclocking instead of going w/ intel and just putting the parts together and turning it on?

right now, price-wise, i'm not saving any money on the amd system because of overclocking stuff. infact, the intel system is almost 100 dollars cheaper...
Click to expand...

I think somebody is still caught up in clock speed. I'll give you a thorough analysis of why you should get a Barton when I get home.
 
i'm very impartial to either intel or amd, i'm just not very educated on the differences

right now i'm just using price vs clockspeed to differentiate between the setups because that's all i really know.

still, any help you can give me is appreciated
 
Originally posted by FiZ
Yeah you should have no problem. I am using stock cooling and I know I can push past 3200+ but I don't see the need.
Click to expand...

same here
 
Originally posted by Dome
right now i'm just using price vs clockspeed to differentiate between the setups because that's all i really know.
Click to expand...

AMD cpu's are more efficient than Intel cpu's. AMD cpu's have shorter pipelines to the core. AMD cpu's perform more instructions per clock cycle. All this is most useful for games, where AMD usually pwns Intel.

You said an P4 2.4C is a better buy than the Barton 2500+ because of its increased ocing potential at stock cooling and its cheaper price. The P4 2.4C may oc more mHz but if you think it's cheaper, you're dead wrong.

The average oc for the 2.4C is around 3.4-3.6ghz and for the 2500+ is around 2.3-2.5ghz. Well to oc the 2.4C, you need high speed high latency ram. Since the 2.4C is locked at the multi of 12, to reach speeds of 3.4-3.6ghz you need a bus speed of 227-240mhz. This is already using the 5:4 divider as if you go any lower performance decreases further. This means PC3700 or higher.

The motherboards I chose are the best ocing choices for each respective platform. For the AMD cooling choice, that Zalman fan is more than enough for ocing.

Let's do a price comparison (prices derived from newegg):

Intel:
P4 2.4C Retail - $164
Abit IC7-Max3 - $189.99
Corsair XMS PC3700 3-4-4-8 512mbx2 - $253
Total - $606.99

AMD:
Barton 2500+ OEM - $85
Abit NF7-S - $99.99
Kingston HyperX PC3500 2-3-3-7 512mbx2 - $253
Zalman CNPS7000A-AlCu - $35.99
Total - $473.98

As you can see the AMD path is much cheaper. Now onto the point of performance. As I mentioned earlier, AMD chips are more efficient, making them much perform better in games. A 2.4C @ 3.5ghz would compare similarly to a 2500+ @ 2.4ghz. You might say, "BUT THE INTEL CLOCK SPEED IS MUCH HIGHER!" But if you analyze it carefully, a high bus on lax timings (3-4-4-8 to be exact) won't exactly overwhelm a slightly lower bus on tighter timings (2-3-2-6 to be exact).

The main factor in performance would then not be the cpu, but the video card. This is why you buy a high-end video card.
 
that helps a lot.

i know that amd and intel cpu speeds don't mean anything when compared to each other, but that was the only way i could compare them.

thanks tons, i have a week and a half to decide and i'll definately keep asking questions
 
also: the kingston hyperx ram on newegg is 2-3-3-7 not 2-3-2-6, and i'm only going to go w/ 512 for now, cuz i can't afford a gig atm. will i have problems overclocking w/ this ram?
 
Just a piece for ya'll - Everything is at stock speeds.

I bench mark at 5,400 on 3dmark 2003 with a 2500+ 512mb Mushkin and Radeon 9800 pro

My friend benches at 5,410 on 3dmark 2003 with a 2.8ghz 1 gig of Corsair and Radeon 9800 pro

We bench the same and he's got 300mhz ontop of me by default. Pretty cool to see this, I was happy.
 
Originally posted by Dome
also: the kingston hyperx ram on newegg is 2-3-3-7 not 2-3-2-6, and i'm only going to go w/ 512 for now, cuz i can't afford a gig atm. will i have problems overclocking w/ this ram?
Click to expand...

Yea, sorry about that but if you up the vdimm to 2.8V you'll have no problem running at 2-3-2-6, maybe you'll be able to run 2-2-2-5 or 2-2-2-11 too. Even at 2-3-3-7, it is much better than running 3-4-4-8 for sure. Lower FSB w/ tighter timings beats out higher FSB w/ relaxed timings.

I'd suggest you go with Mushkin Black lvl. 2 PC3500. If you don't buy soon Mushkin will run out of high quality lvl. 2 BH5 chips to use in their ram and will start using other stuff. Although somewhat more expensive, this stuff is the best for ocing. Although only rated for 217mhz, most can do 2-2-2-11 @ 2.8V or 2.9V even oc'd to 230 FSB.

Beware, in 3dMark03 the cpu plays a much lesser role than in 3dMark01 SE. The cpu test in 3dMark03 might tell more. Keep in mind AMD usually beats Intel in 3dMark unlike the days of the past...
 
if i'm shooting for a max oc or 2.2-2.4, do you think i can get away with the kingston hyperx?

i'd love to be able to go all out on this computer but i'm stretching the budget already. i am just under 800 w/ shipping right now, and any more upgrading and i'll have to go with a lower video card (i've got 9800 pro)

complete projected system spec for amd system:
barton 2500
nf7-s
2x256 kingston hyperx
radeon 9800 pro
antec soho 1040bii case

already have:
2x HDD 120 gig
audigy I (might use onboard sound)
keyboard, mouse, monitor, speaker etc
optical drives
floppy drive

thanks again
 
Originally posted by Dome
audigy I (might use onboard sound)
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The onboard sound in the NF7-S is great. It probably matches up to the Audigy 2 in sound quality and output.

You could go with the Kingston HyperX PC3500 because a lot of those have BH5 chips also. If you do get one with a BH5 chip, you could be pushing 230-240 FSB no problem. But if you buy the Mushkin Black lvl. 2 PC3500, you're pretty much guaranteed to get one with BH5 chips. That is if Mushkin doesn't run out soon and start using other stuff. Going with the Kingston is probably a safe bet considering I don't think you'll be pushing beyond 230 FSB with that locked 2500+ chip you'll be getting.

Still, with that Kingston and some good cooling I'd say you could probably do 2.42ghz @ 220x11. You NEED good cooling. I'd say either a Zalman CNPS7000A-AlCu or a Thermalright slk-900A w/ any good 80mm fan.
 
i am planning on buying the alcu cnps7000 and the case comes w/ 2 fans, but has room for 4. should i buy 2 more fans for the case?
 
Originally posted by Dome
i am planning on buying the alcu cnps7000 and the case comes w/ 2 fans, but has room for 4. should i buy 2 more fans for the case?
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I'd see how the 2 case fans perform at first. If they don't move enough air through your case, buy another 2. I bought an Antec case and the fans that came with weren't very powerful. Just make sure you use those 2 fans as 1 intake, 1 exhaust.

Your case looks good. Case might be a bit heavy to take to LANs because my friend has the 1080AMG and it is a freaking steal beast.
 
naw i don't lan, i've seen the case at a retailers and i like the good solid feel of it. i don't care for windows or mods really, so i'll probably go ahead and pick up a couple of 80MM fans to keep them cool, maybe a couple tornados w/ a rheobus to keep the noise down.
 
Originally posted by Dome
maybe a couple tornados w/ a rheobus to keep the noise down.
Click to expand...

THAT IS A VERY VERY BAD IDEA

I don't think you've seen all the threads in the Ocing Forum complaining about the sheer noise of the Tornado. The thing is 55.2 DBA which is FUCKING LOUD. If you insert your finger it will be taken clean off. Even if you 7V it with a good fanbus like the Sunbeam Rheobus, it'll still be loud. You'll hear it over your speakers definitely. If you must have the raw cooling power of the Tornado, use it as a cpu fan on like the Thermalright slk-900A. At least that way the Tornados won't shake your whole case. Also, if you use the Tornado as one of your intake fans, the air intake is too small and you'll probably have to drill some more holes in the front or something. If you use the Tornado as your cpu fan, it'll no doubt outperform the Zalman but the Zalman at least is inaudible and performs only a little worse.
 
so then just use like sunon or panaflow? tornado is the only name i hear, despite the noise. i can't afford to spend more than 10 bucks/fan. quite is better, but i mean my computer has to run stable, right?
 
i just did a review on the sycth kamakaze and let me tell you it cools great right there with the slk and the best thing is its quiet. 2500+@3200+ with 1.7 volts 46c underfull load my slk800 got up to 47c whith a loud ass smartfan2
 
i think i'll be happy w/ the zalman 7000, i just need suggestions for 2 case fans, have to be 80mm
 
This Coolermaster fan is a nice case fan. Nice bright green LEDs and it moves a respectable 32 CFM @ 25 dBA. I have heard many good things about this fan: good looking, cools good, very quiet.

If you buy 2 separately,
($5.99 + $3.00 shipping) x 2 = $17.98

If you buy 2 of them together,
$7.50 ea x 2 = $15.00

Of course you could sacrifice some airflow to get 2 80mm Panaflo L1As. This fan does 24 CFM @ 21 dBA. Of course these are also more expensive, being $26 together with shipping included.

I recommend the Coolermaster fans as they aren't that much noisier, plus they have pretty green LEDs (too bad you don't have a sidepanel to admire their brilliant glow lighting up your case!).
 
is the bulk pricing on the fans automatic? i added 2 to my wishlist and it shows the single unit price. anyhow...

ok here is my entire wishlist as of tonight, i'll sit on this a week til i get back to school and then purchase it given that i'm convinced everything is good:

antec soho 1040BII w/ 400 watt psu smartpower
abit nf7-s
barton 2500+ oem
ati radeon 9800 pro
2x 256 kingston pc 3500 hyperX
zalman cnps7000 alcu
artic silver ceramique
2x coolermaster fans

total w/ shipping = $800.47

do i have to pay anything else besides shipping? i added the prices, and then added shipping, are there any taxes or crap? its been a while since i ordered off of newegg...anyhow thanks
 
Originally posted by Dome
do i have to pay anything else besides shipping? i added the prices, and then added shipping, are there any taxes or crap? its been a while since i ordered off of newegg...anyhow thanks
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Not unless you live in New Jersey, I think. They have a warehouse in California though but I don't think you have to pay tax if you live there...
 
This may seem out of place but how do I tell what week my Athlon XP 2500+ is w/o sticking it in to see if the multiplier can change or not? I have 2 2500+s so I want to know if the other can change multipliers or not.
 
create a new thread and post the numbers on the bottom of the processor, a few of the threads have examples, but they're alpha-numeric and pretty long, if that helps.

the good folks here can help you decipher them. please don't do it in this thread please :) because i'd like to keep this thread on topic. thanks
 
so how high can i raise fsb on the nf7-s? on the link it says supports 266/333/400 but i don't know what that means

pc 3500 ram is 400 right?
 
Originally posted by Dome
so how high can i raise fsb on the nf7-s? on the link it says supports 266/333/400 but i don't know what that means

pc 3500 ram is 400 right?
Click to expand...

You can raise the FSB high as your cpu can take it. But you'll probably max out at 230-240mhz. My mobo BIOS lets me adjust anywhere from like 100-300mhz. The NF7-S is rated at 266/333/400mhz (double-pumped for marketing purposes) which is 133/166/200mhz. Trust me, the BIOS will let you adjust as much as you'll want.

PC3500 = DD433 which is 217mhz FSB. I suggested you get PC3500 because you'll need to have memory:FSB at 1:1 so if you want FSB at 217mhz, you'll need memory at 217mhz. PC3500 gives you the headroom you need and overclock if needed.
 
what happens then if i want to raise my fsb to 220?

what does changing the ratio of memory to fsb do?

i was just kind of hoping for a nice clean 11x220 as the speed of my computer, if it can't, that's cool, stability is more important than anything. i turn off my computer at night, but when i'm awake, so is it...

anyhow thanks
 
Originally posted by Dome
what happens then if i want to raise my fsb to 220?

what does changing the ratio of memory to fsb do?

i was just kind of hoping for a nice clean 11x220 as the speed of my computer, if it can't, that's cool, stability is more important than anything. i turn off my computer at night, but when i'm awake, so is it...

anyhow thanks
Click to expand...

You can raise the FSB 1mhz at a time in BIOS. Changing the ratio of FSB:memory just allows for a higher oc since you don't need to oc your memory as much so it won't hold you back. Don't think about doing this, Athlon rigs run best at 1:1. You'll probably get 220x11. Good luck!
 
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