Liquid Nitrogen

coolxboxgamer said:
is it possible to make solid nitrogen? lol :p , no really im serious
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Well, a phase diagram would show whether or not it could be in the solid phase, and under what pressure and temperature conditions, but I cannot for the life of me find one online.

But according to web elements there is a melting point.
 
n3g471v3 d3c1b3l said:
This is a most interesting discussion...
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take a college chemistry class... we went over this stuff on the first day. :p You might be blown away by the rest of the stuff you'd learn. haha.
 
Wowee, awesome conversation.

Heres an intresting tidbit from my research:
Liquid Nitrogen has a boiling point of -320.5 F, freezing point of -346.0 F
Useable in cases of proper handling, its still pretty dangerous.
Now we go to Liquid Helium: Boiling point of -452.1F , freezing point of -459.7 F
That Freezing point is rounded from -459.67 F, or Absolute Zero. At this point Liquid Helium will bring the temperature down far below operating range of a semi-conductor, so its out of the question right there, not to mention that it has to be handled with extreme care, otherwise you can pretty much kiss your life goodbye, but yeah, you'd pretty much have to be insane to work with things this cold. A can of Liquid Helium sitting on top of your processor will be cold enough to make the die so brittle, that it will crack, and break into billions of pieces under the weight of the can :D . If you've ever seen a LN2 setup, you'll see that not only does the are around the processor form condensation, it forms into frost, something like what you'll find in some freezers. Its fun stuff, really is ;) .
 
Emission, your numbers are slightly off, according to web elements.

Liq He isn't dangerous if you know how to use it properly. Basically you need cryogenic gloves, and good ventillation in the room, dewer, and apparatus.
 
Stuey83 said:
Emission, your numbers are slightly off, according to web elements.

Liq He isn't dangerous if you know how to use it properly. Basically you need cryogenic gloves, and good ventillation in the room, dewer, and apparatus.
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I rounded off my numbers to the tenths place, my numbers are accurate :). Yeah, using it properly means having what you mentioned, gloves, ventilation, etc etc..
 
Serge84 said:
Liquid nitrogen should not be taken lightly. Touch it, and you lose a finger. Poor it wrong and you can kiss the mobo and floor good bye. Liquid Nitrogen exposed to air and released in its liquid state will make fast work of super freezing anything and turn it into very brittle parts. Most normal matter will shatter when this stuff touches it. Its so cold it would shatter a person like a bullet to glass in only a moment.

You need special containment and tubes. NASA grade crap. Its just suiside to even use it as a coolent for even a insane person. lol Its too extreme for me unless I was in a sub-zero hazmad suit. I wouldn't get near that stuff. That maybe alittle much for the chip. Your slowing down those atom's quite abit. Your prob slowing down the chip itself. Liquid nitrogen is close to absolute zero by only about -100C or -200C you know.
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This makes me think back to the day in 4th grade when some alumni came by with a thin of Liquid nitrogen, they froze a bunch of stuff, i remember racquet balls, and broke them. Then at the end , everyone sat on the floor and they just poured it on the floor. It was quite cool...
 
Stuey83 said:
Well, "freeze" in a non-literal sense is technically appropriate since all known substances will cease atomic-scale vibrations. In other words, at the smallest level possible, everything will stop moving. Well, in theory. Absolute zero has never actually been obtained - ever.
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We're not 100% sure what happens at absolute zero. It's another one of those thresholds where we can theorize what happens, but won't know for sure till we cross it- just as Newtonian physics works up to the point, when relativity takes over.

By definition, absolute zero is the point at which all matter has a minimum possible amount of energy, which is generally understood as the energy trapped inside of the matter itself. What we aren't sure of, however, is how much energy that really is- for example, chemical energy is always stored in the bonds between molecules. It is generally accepted that all matter becomes supersolid at absolute zero, but I think that's because of how we define the solid phase of matter.

The coldest form of matter I've ever heard of is called Bose-Einstein Condensate, or BEC, which I believe forms at several billionths of a degree above absolute zero.
 
Bose-Einstein clouds are very interesting. Using lasers to cool matter is just...cool.:cool:
 
Heres LN2 stored in 21 liter Dewar....It bottoms out @ -192C

screenshot266un1.jpg


In action... 3D benchs,,,it was fun:).....Drink that cold campbell soup at -161C and X6800 at 4.8 Ghz / 1.75Vcore.

screenshot011fq0.jpg
 
bob said:
I beleive it was history channel, or discovery, which showed how liquid nitrogen/liquid oxegen is made. They use *huge* compressors, though they made it all sound so simple.
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Huge is an understatement. I work at a cryo plant, and even out small portable compressors are built onto a semi trailer. our full scale ones take up hole rooms. and thats not even considering our storage tanks.

Ontop of that, you would have to find parts that would support something that cold. im sure your average block and tubeing would crack and brake. best bet would to somehow use the liqued nitrogen to cool the coolent you run through the system.
 
centvalny said:
Heres LN2 stored in 21 liter Dewar....It bottoms out @ -192C

In action... 3D benchs,,,it was fun:).....Drink that cold campbell soup at -161C and X6800 at 4.8 Ghz / 1.75Vcore.
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Whats the brown thingy on top of the core?
 
HOCP4ME said:
That depends on how much you compress it.

But I remember now, here's how LN2 is made:

1. The gas is put under pressure by huge compressors. No doubt it turns to liquid under the pressure, but it's still at room temp.
2. The gas is allowed to expand through special nozzles that relieve the pressure very, very quickly. This rapid drop in pressure forces the liquid to evaporate.
3. As the liquid evaporates, the surrounding temp drops rapidly. It eventually drops low enough that N2 condenses at 1 bar.
4. The LN2 is collected and stored in the dewer. You now have very cold, unpressurized LN2.

So, it is cold, and it is not under pressure, but pressure is used to condense it.
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Most LN2 is made through cryogenic separation from air. What this amounts to is tray distillation of the lighter LN2 at sub-zero temperatures. Liquid Oxygen/Argon is the byproduct. See link:

http://www.uigi.com/cryodist.html
 
I work with LN2 on a regualr basis we use it to fracture rock deep underground when trying to get oil and gas from underground. It expands at 696 SCF of gas to 1 ft^3 of liquid. Another hazard of LN2 is that it is colder than liquid O2 so don't smoke around the stuff or you could end up with an explosion in your face. We transport LN2 in 3000 gal tranks at 35psi and use cryogenic pump to move it around. Hope this helps with your discusion.

- Gyr
 
forget your drama, toss a few dry ice bricks in your case and call it done.
 
25% scored higher (more nerdy),
2% scored the same, and
73% scored lower (less nerdy).

What does this mean? Your nerdiness is:

Mid-Level Nerd. Wow, it takes a lot of hard nerdy practice to reach this level

Man.. and im not really that nerdy at all... weird.
 
73% scored higher (more nerdy),
1% scored the same, and
26% scored lower (less nerdy).

What does this mean? Your nerdiness is:

Not nerdy, but definitely not hip.
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Wicked. Not really good criteria for judging nerdiness though :p
 
6% scored higher (more nerdy),
1% scored the same, and
93% scored lower (less nerdy).

What does this mean? Your nerdiness is:

Supreme Nerd. Apply for a professorship at MIT now!!!.
 
9% scored higher (more nerdy),
0% scored the same, and
91% scored lower (less nerdy).

What does this mean? Your nerdiness is:

Supreme Nerd. Apply for a professorship at MIT now!!!.

Jesus! I'm nerdier than I thought :D .
 
Serge84 said:
... Your slowing down those atom's quite abit. Your prob slowing down the chip itself. Liquid nitrogen is close to absolute zero by only about -100C or -200C you know.
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I seem to recall at absolute zero all molecular activity stops, which results in 100% efficient electrical transfer through wires (essentially)... well depending on how efficient the circuit is, but in effect you're taking a great load off the CPU and allowing for MAXIMUM overclock-ability! Have we ever heard of supercooling? Trying to reach absolute zero? To allow for greater efficiency? Hmm, maybe not?

Anyway back on topic here... theoretically using LN in a loop would be possible just not viable... anytime soon at least ;) I don't see why (with the proper equipment) you couldn't use LN in a liquid form in a loop... hence "liquid" nitrogen, but I know nothing about the laws of thermal dynamics of what would actually transpire in such a setup. Could be good... could be bad.

-Eric
 
lord_farfig said:
I seem to recall at absolute zero all molecular activity stops, which results in 100% efficient electrical transfer through wires (essentially)...
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when molecules stop moving so do electrons. also semiconductors become insulators at ultralow temps so cooling a normal CPU to zero K would make it work as good as a CPU made from concrete.
 
ghost6303 said:
when molecules stop moving so do electrons. also semiconductors become insulators at ultralow temps so cooling a normal CPU to zero K would make it work as good as a CPU made from concrete.
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Yep, it'll actually make the chip so brittle that it cracks under the pressure of the cold-plate on top of it.
 
just heat a little of the N2 back to a gas to create pressure for pumping, then no need for those crazy cryogenic pumps that always wear out. Oh and use only stainless steel for everything.

- Gyr
 
you could use a mixture of dry ice (solid CO2) and acetone to reach -78oC easily, and it won't evaporate nearly as quickly as liquid nitrogen. just don't spill it :)

ps - the comments about liq n2 it freezing anything in the room are wrong, you can dip the tips of your fingers in liq N2 as long as you're quick about it.
 
Saint Andy said:
ps - the comments about liq n2 it freezing anything in the room are wrong, you can dip the tips of your fingers in liq N2 as long as you're quick about it.
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Haha, to the dismay of the students in my classes, I've dunked my hand in. A few people were skeptical as to whether I touched it or not, so I cup my hands when inside and splash out a few droplets of liq N.

The key is, as you said, dip your finger or hand in VERY QUICKLY. One's hand is very very warm. Liq N is very very cold. When you dip ery quickly, the liq N boils around your hand. This creates a vapor pocket which surrounds and insulates your hand. Thus the liq N barely touches your skin. Hold your hand in for longer and the vapor joins the air in the room and the liq N saps off your heat energy and freezes the water molecules in your hand. This destroys tissues since (I believe) the water molecules freeze into jagged little crystals, bursting any and all cells around them.

I <3 liq N.
 
Stuey83 said:
This destroys tissues since (I believe) the water molecules freeze into jagged little crystals, bursting any and all cells around them.
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Correct. The water in your cells crystallizes, expands, and ruptures cell membranes.
 
Saint Andy said:
you could use a mixture of dry ice (solid CO2) and acetone to reach -78oC easily, and it won't evaporate nearly as quickly as liquid nitrogen. just don't spill it :)

ps - the comments about liq n2 it freezing anything in the room are wrong, you can dip the tips of your fingers in liq N2 as long as you're quick about it.
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With aluminium mousepot and dry ice and acetone...

picture1110225iu.jpg
 
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