Linux Voids Netbook Hardware Warranty

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Want to put Linux on a netbook made by HP? You'd better think twice about that, unless you want to void your warranty. :eek:

Installing a different operating system on a computer does not change its hardware. This is a simple enough concept...unless you work in technical support for HP. Their phone tech support have joined their Geek Squad colleagues in insisting that a Linux-infested laptop was no longer under warranty.
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I was thinking of installing Linux on my 1005HA asus. anyone know if that would void my war.......OH its already over.

I couldnt even get a replacement power cable at month 13.......Asus......
 
Not that I needed another reason not to buy a netbook...but...

That said, I am getting more then a little sick and tired of Manufacturers telling me what I can't do with the hardware I paid for. It is my hardware, I will install whatever software I damn well please and yes you will honor the hardware warranty if it fails due to no fault of the software because the courts will back me. so in closing F*** Sony, Apple, HP and any other manufacturer that tries to dictate to me how I am allowed to use something I paid for.
 
Didn't they already get sued for something similar to this a few years back.
 
LightningCrash said:
This was discussed heavily on reddit

Magnuson-Moss FTW
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The problem with Magnuson-Moss, is that YOU have to prove that Linux didn't break your device. They don't have to prove anything. And if you think otherwise, good luck.

Same with cars. You can throw an exhaust on your little buzzy Honda, but if a part fails and they blame the exhaust they have nothing more to do. You have to spend your money, time, etc disproving them.
 
LightningCrash said:
This was discussed heavily on reddit

Magnuson-Moss FTW
Click to expand...

Awesome! Thank you for a summary of this highly-valued discussion, as well as a link to it; furthermore, for explaining just what in the hell Magnuson-Moss is.

I await some manner of puerile, pedantic response.

Regards,
Dr. Precarious Gray, Fullbrain
 
Yes, but doesn't installing linux automatically make you a hacker. Which also means your probabaly overclocking the bios and using it to steal money from super computers and stuff.

Plus Solaris is still fine right?
 
I bet now thousands of extra people will call HP and install linux on it just to tick them of ....
 
I think it is just HP being as crappy as they usually are. I've dealt with their "warranty" service before.

Who in the f' would use a Windows-only utility to generate a warranty ID? Isn't that what the warranty paperwork is for?
 
I own a netbook made by HP, a Mini-311. It's actually a very nice little machine, but I only replaced the Win 7 home that came installed on it with Win 7 ultimate...
 
Someone had better phone geohot. This is totally fucked up. I'm only going to buy a laptop now when they allow you to run homebrew.
 
OldSchool said:
I own a netbook made by HP, a Mini-311. It's actually a very nice little machine, but I only replaced the Win 7 home that came installed on it with Win 7 ultimate...
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See, you've messed up, now they know that you have "changed the shipped software configuration of the warrantied HP product". :p

I had to have a battery replaced on my stepdaughter's laptop before, and they asked me: "How are you sure that the battery is dead?" and I answered, "When I unplug the charger, the computer dies.", then I was given a reply of, "You need to make sure that the power settings in Windows is on Balanced."
 
HP blows anyways i have a printer from them that wouldn't install because i don't have a HDD for drive C took me an hour or two to fix the dam problem and get it to work. You know i don't have a C drive so lazy hackers don't infect my computer not lazy programmers who can't write a driver for crap.
 
It SHOULD void the warranty!

Linux is a pinko commy hardware virus that causes hardware death and gives away all our innovation!

signed,

Steve Balmer.

PS. Where is my chair!
 
I would think this is pretty easy to understand. Hiring support for a product is one thing, but when that product has so many different configurations, support gets more difficult. It seems to me to be just a way for HP to say, "No we wont support you installing Linux and fucking it up you retard."

Basically they ship with an OS, and they are only required to support that OS. Why is everyone getting all at arms with HP? I avoid them as much as any responsible IT guy but I wont slam them for doing something like this.
 
Mindflux said:
The problem with Magnuson-Moss, is that YOU have to prove that Linux didn't break your device. They don't have to prove anything. And if you think otherwise, good luck.

Same with cars. You can throw an exhaust on your little buzzy Honda, but if a part fails and they blame the exhaust they have nothing more to do. You have to spend your money, time, etc disproving them.
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Wrong, the warrantor has to prove why something shouldn't be covered. Any other way and it would severely defeat the purpose of the tie in sales portion. Now that said, they are under no obligation to work on any portion that the purchaser modified themselves or though a third party.

There is a gray area that happens when dealing with an OS that may require a bit of extra work on the part of the purchaser: The OS is the interface to the hardware and often it is though the software itself that you determine hardware failure. The warrantor is not required to know or use every OS out there and they are definitely not obligated to warrant the fact that they will work together. So for the warrantor to properly test the hardware, the original OS may be needed (unless it is something that can be tested in the bios).

Example 1 - 5.1 sound isn't working, only stereo output: There really is no practical way a warrantor can test the hardware without the original OS, so how could the warrantor determine it is indeed a hardware issue and not a driver issue?

Example 2 - Display isn't working, no signal out: This problem clearly comes into play before the OS even becomes a factor. Warrantor should honor the hardware warranty.

Of course, this logical progression here is that the warrantor may institute a policy that all hard-drives get fully formatted with a fresh OS install so they may properly diagnose the hardware and assure they return a fully working product (where have we seen that before?). So now the purchaser must take extra steps to assure they do not lose their OS and personal data, like imaging the drive or swapping it out.
 
This has absolutely squat to do with a hardware warranty. I would not expect them to support Linux, and I don't think anyone else here would either.

But to say your Keyboard is no longer under warranty because you installed Linux is pure bullshit.

XamediX said:
I would think this is pretty easy to understand. Hiring support for a product is one thing, but when that product has so many different configurations, support gets more difficult. It seems to me to be just a way for HP to say, "No we wont support you installing Linux and fucking it up you retard."

Basically they ship with an OS, and they are only required to support that OS. Why is everyone getting all at arms with HP? I avoid them as much as any responsible IT guy but I wont slam them for doing something like this.
Click to expand...
 
Mindflux said:
The problem with Magnuson-Moss, is that YOU have to prove that Linux didn't break your device. They don't have to prove anything. And if you think otherwise, good luck.

Same with cars. You can throw an exhaust on your little buzzy Honda, but if a part fails and they blame the exhaust they have nothing more to do. You have to spend your money, time, etc disproving them.
Click to expand...

For them to deny the warranty, the problem has to be related to what you changed. In the case your buzzy Honda, if the radio failed, they couldn't claim that the modified exhaust was to blame. If you had a problem with the engine, then they could blame the exhaust due to not enogh back presure, etc.

Some states (like out here in California) have even more strick laws concerning this, and the company will end up on the wrong end of a class action lawsuit.
 
The real question is why didn't the "linux guy" just run the damn app via Wine or a virtual machine. He's a "linux guy" surely he knew of these things?
 
Troz said:
The real question is why didn't the "linux guy" just run the damn app via Wine or a virtual machine. He's a "linux guy" surely he knew of these things?
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He tried Wine. A VM would not have access to the host ACPI information.
 
Here's the base of the problem. There's a piece of diagnostic software that is part of the pre-installed software. The guy needs to have windows and that piece of software installed for the technician to complete a service transaction, because there is a code generated in that software. What person who knows Linux can't swap a SATA HDD in a laptop and run the recovery media on it? He does that and can call up HP and give them the warranty ID they need to process his claim.

Also, why not just dual boot? Would have saved him all this headache...
 
DocFaustus said:
Wrong, the warrantor has to prove why something shouldn't be covered. Any other way and it would severely defeat the purpose of the tie in sales portion. Now that said, they are under no obligation to work on any portion that the purchaser modified themselves or though a third party.

There is a gray area that happens when dealing with an OS that may require a bit of extra work on the part of the purchaser: The OS is the interface to the hardware and often it is though the software itself that you determine hardware failure. The warrantor is not required to know or use every OS out there and they are definitely not obligated to warrant the fact that they will work together. So for the warrantor to properly test the hardware, the original OS may be needed (unless it is something that can be tested in the bios).

Example 1 - 5.1 sound isn't working, only stereo output: There really is no practical way a warrantor can test the hardware without the original OS, so how could the warrantor determine it is indeed a hardware issue and not a driver issue?

Example 2 - Display isn't working, no signal out: This problem clearly comes into play before the OS even becomes a factor. Warrantor should honor the hardware warranty.

Of course, this logical progression here is that the warrantor may institute a policy that all hard-drives get fully formatted with a fresh OS install so they may properly diagnose the hardware and assure they return a fully working product (where have we seen that before?). So now the purchaser must take extra steps to assure they do not lose their OS and personal data, like imaging the drive or swapping it out.
Click to expand...

That's not ever how it's been when I've had warranty concerns with unrelated car modifications. :rolleyes:
 
blackscreen said:
Here's the base of the problem. There's a piece of diagnostic software that is part of the pre-installed software. The guy needs to have windows and that piece of software installed for the technician to complete a service transaction, because there is a code generated in that software. What person who knows Linux can't swap a SATA HDD in a laptop and run the recovery media on it? He does that and can call up HP and give them the warranty ID they need to process his claim.
Click to expand...

That they need to run the windows diagnostic software is ridiculous. How would they get a code for screen/backlight/video card is dead? Battery doesn't work, with error code in bios is pretty straightforward.

blackscreen said:
Also, why not just dual boot? Would have saved him all this headache...
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Dual booting is a headache (mostly because of fighting for the mbr). Also it's a netbook, so the hard drive is presumably small, and who wants to waste space with two operating systems?
 
blackscreen said:
Here's the base of the problem. There's a piece of diagnostic software that is part of the pre-installed software. The guy needs to have windows and that piece of software installed for the technician to complete a service transaction, because there is a code generated in that software. What person who knows Linux can't swap a SATA HDD in a laptop and run the recovery media on it? He does that and can call up HP and give them the warranty ID they need to process his claim.

Also, why not just dual boot? Would have saved him all this headache...
Click to expand...

Yep. It isn't so much that he installed linux, it is that he deleted the built in test software they wanted him to use. Sucks that they don't provide their boot disks test utilities for non-hp techs to use. Doesn't really matter though because at least in the past their test software sucked. When I worked in a repair center that did hp warranty work we needed to get those stupid codes for are claims as well. I've seen their diag software pass the hard drive tests when the computer didn't have a hard drive in it.

I've had dell give me the same bs because I had a notebook with bad memory in it. Thing wouldn't get past post. They wanted to give me shit because I couldn't run the diag software. Got in a big argument with the idiot on the phone saying it wouldn't get past the post screen. Ended up cussing him out and getting a supervisor who ended up sending me new ram.
 
Could you not install windows back on it so they wouldn't know Linux was installed and thus still have your warranty?

Though that would be hard if it was a major hardware failure and you couldn't, but for something like a battery it would work.
 
Someone else already said this, but I, too, just created a dual boot so I wouldn't run into any warranty problems with my laptop. It boots into linux, but I still have a small partition with windows and diagnostic software that was shipped with it. If I ever had the need to ship it back, I could back up what I needed, delete the linux partition, restore the boot sector to default that it shipped with, and be done with it. They'd never know if I cleaned it. Although, it might be a little suspicious that the windows install was hardly touched...

At this point, though, that laptop is WELL out of warranty and I could delete it if I really wanted to, but it's working fine, and I'm not even close to out of room.
 
I don't see how they refused the warranty because of Linux. They refused it because he couldn't generate the report they wanted, because it was a 3rd party program designed for Windows. Why couldn't he have just used Wine to run it? Or if it meant so much to him then just install Windows in a VM?
 
03grandam said:
I don't see how they refused the warranty because of Linux. They refused it because he couldn't generate the report they wanted, because it was a 3rd party program designed for Windows. Why couldn't he have just used Wine to run it? Or if it meant so much to him then just install Windows in a VM?
Click to expand...

someone else already addressed it. VM cannot access host ACPI information.
 
swatbat said:
Yep. It isn't so much that he installed linux, it is that he deleted the built in test software they wanted him to use. Sucks that they don't provide their boot disks test utilities for non-hp techs to use. Doesn't really matter though because at least in the past their test software sucked. When I worked in a repair center that did hp warranty work we needed to get those stupid codes for are claims as well. I've seen their diag software pass the hard drive tests when the computer didn't have a hard drive in it.

I've had dell give me the same bs because I had a notebook with bad memory in it. Thing wouldn't get past post. They wanted to give me shit because I couldn't run the diag software. Got in a big argument with the idiot on the phone saying it wouldn't get past the post screen. Ended up cussing him out and getting a supervisor who ended up sending me new ram.
Click to expand...

I deal with Dell all the time, and if you can run diags and get an error code, it's an easy claim.

We had one laptop with Vista that had a video problems (screen would intermitantly scramble) that they could never fix. Finally I upgraded the laptop to Windows 7 64 bit and the problem went away. Not sure if it was a driver problem, or a hardware/design problem that they fixed with a workaround in the Windows 7 drivers.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
Not that I needed another reason not to buy a netbook...but...

That said, I am getting more then a little sick and tired of Manufacturers telling me what I can't do with the hardware I paid for. It is my hardware, I will install whatever software I damn well please and yes you will honor the hardware warranty if it fails due to no fault of the software because the courts will back me. so in closing F*** Sony, Apple, HP and any other manufacturer that tries to dictate to me how I am allowed to use something I paid for.
Click to expand...

The only reason I can say I'd stand by HP (and I hate HP, mind you) in doing this, is if Linux let you do something (or did) stress the hardware beyond operating limits by default.

It's kind of moot though, because anyone worth their salt can pull the hard drive and simply throw the old OS back on before asking for warranty support..
 
Azhar said:
someone else already addressed it. VM cannot access host ACPI information.
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Ok I must have missed that, thank you.

But as someone else said/did, he should have had it setup for a dual boot just in case of an issue like this. A Windows XP partition wouldn't have taken up much of any room at all and in this case it would have saved him a headache in the end. Hopefully he has something in place now to save him problems later on again if he needs it.
 
Mindflux said:
That's not ever how it's been when I've had warranty concerns with unrelated car modifications. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Well now you are mixing two things. Your first post was specific to the law and I addressed it as such. This post isn't really about the law at all but how you were treated by said warrantor. Having a law doesn't guarantee that the people providing the warranty are not going to lie to you get out of holding up their side. It just means that when push comes to shove, the law is definitely on your side. My best advice is for you to learn your rights.

Like nutzo, I too am from California so maybe the warrantors are more scared out here to dick with customers too much, but yes, they have to prove that any modifications* you did directly led to the failure for it not be honored.

Example: if you own a Dodge, you can happily discard all that Mopar crap under the hood.

*I am assuming legal modifications here, I have no idea what effect illegal mods would have.
 
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